[Closed] Anyone remember how the Falklands began?

thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry, just like this year, with another ...........

you beat me to it big_n_daft 🙂

Someone spilt someone else's pint

And here was me thinking it was because British territory was invaded by a hostile force. Ho hum.

Well first the Earth cooled, and then....

thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry

lol!

Nothing to do with the junta in Argentina wanting to stir up nationalism to take the heat off the screwed state of the nation then ?

I thought it was because we were making cutbacks in the region which was interpreted by the Argentinian Government as a signal that we were no longer interested in the Islands.

And here was me thinking it was because British territory was invaded by a hostile force. Ho hum.

Anyone who thinks that there is ever a single cause of a war is naive at best, and foolish at worst.

They've not started cutting up the carriers and harriers yet have they?

Wasn't it something to do with a lady who wasn't for turning?

Falkland Islands began more than 1000 million years ago glacial sediments were turned into stone they formed the rocks or something.

I thought it was because we were making cutbacks in the region which was interpreted by the Argentinian Government as a signal that we were no longer interested in the Islands.

Well it was a combination of Thatcher ordering that HMS Endurance, the only Royal Naval presence in the South Atlantic, be withdrawn, plus the 1981 Nationality Act which stripped the Falkland Islander's of their British citizenship, that convinced the Junta that Britain was no longer interested in the Falklands. And which they saw as a nod and a wink/green light.

allthepies - Member

thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry

lol!

Nothing to do with the *unta in england wanting to stir up nationalism to take the heat off the screwed state of the nation then ?

Posted 7 minutes ago # Report-Post

There fixed it for you.

lol, rofla.

The same was true of both sides project. On the one hand Thatcher was by then, the most unpopular British Prime Minister ever recorded, and she was certain to lose the next general election. And on the other hand, it was the dying days of a Junta which was also deeply unpopular. Both needed to whip up support which they lacked due their failed policies.

The irony is that up until that point, there was a mutual admiration for each other between the Tories and the Junta. They shared pretty much identical economic policies, and under Thatcher Britain was training and arming the Argentine military, despite the fact that the Junta was at war with its own people and torturing and slaughtering Argentines - something which Thatcher fully supported.

project - Member
thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry, just like this year, with another ...........

And there was me thinking that we went to war in order to recapture British sovereign territory from a military dictatorship that had precisely no popular mandate amongst the overwhelmingly pro-British population.

The fact that this also happened at the height of the Cold War was no small factor either. What on earth do you think the Soviet Union would have made of it if the second most powerful country in NATO hadn't bothered to defend it's own territory against a third rate Latin American state?

Grow up FFS!

🙄

What on earth do you think the Soviet Union would have made of it if the second most powerful country in NATO hadn't bothered to defend it's own territory against a third rate Latin American state?

So it was all done simply to impress the Soviet Union ?

And you suggest that [i]others[/i] "grow up" ?

ernie_lynch - Member

So it was all done simply to impress the Soviet Union ?

And you suggest that others "grow up" ?

Yes, that's exactly the thrust of my post.

Selective quotation is awesome.

You have won the internet.

no need for the "grow up" comments fellas.

Bravo, Ernie is [i]always[/i] right. He is all of teh internet awesomeness. Didn't you know?

Is that t he same soviet union that now fails to exist, and was the uk the second strongest country in NATO, now a third world country, being bought out by the chinese and indians.

Grow up, bravohotel8er, AND STOP VOTING CONSERVATIVE.Its bad for the country and jobs.

Selective quotation is awesome.

Well bothers you, let's have the [i]whole[/i] quote

And there was me thinking that we went to war in order to recapture British sovereign territory from a military dictatorship that had precisely no popular mandate amongst the overwhelmingly pro-British population.

The fact that this also happened at the height of the Cold War was no small factor either. What on earth do you think the Soviet Union would have made of it if the second most powerful country in NATO hadn't bothered to defend it's own territory against a third rate Latin American state?

Grow up FFS!

🙄

So it was all done simply to impress the Soviet Union ?

And you suggest that others "grow up" ?

Oh and i grew up when all this was happening, and now am watching an exact rerun, with another fool in charge .

It's been nothing but fools in charge since the last one.

Oh and i grew up when all this was happening, and now am watching an exact rerun, with another fool in charge .

Did you miss the REALLY big screwup with that fella Blair a few years ago ?

bliar didnt do anything worthwhile only resign.

Which war have the Tory Party started recently?

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Bravo, Ernie is always right.

A lesson which you very quickly learnt Flashheart.

But to be fair, you very rarely ever attempt to argue a political point with [i]anyone[/i] Flashheart - which is undoubtedly based on the acute self-awareness that you are invariably out of your depth.

The one against the working classes ,the family and the industrial workforce of the uk.

Your overbearing self-importance is showing again, Ernie. Put it away.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
Your overbearing self-importance is showing again, Ernie. Put it away.

You make him sound like a conservative.

Well you might be surprised to learn Flashheart, that that doesn't bother me.

And you resorting to totally irrelevant little digs makes it worthwhile for me.

Glad to provide some saitsfaction for your existence.

thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry,

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW

Double post

Everyone knows flashy only has pithy put downs and no substance he will probably reference the labour [iraq war?] soon rather than say something about the tories

PP are you claiming thatcher was so politically naive that it did not cross her mind that it might just make her popular if she had a war - FFS you probably think Bush never had the same thougtht before his war on terror
you really should read more on here if you think that is the most twisted thing on stw gay shari swans doing jihad anyone?

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW

not really, loads more tosh to come

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW

Well you don't need to rely on STW to read that "bitter twisted pile of crap"........it is a very widespread point of view held by many people across society.

There is no doubt at all that Thatcher was the most unpopular British Prime ever recorded before the Falklands War. Nor is there any doubt at all that she benefited hugely from the Falklands War.

From the [i]Daily Telegraph[/i] :

[i]The liberation of the Falklands, which came at the cost of 236 British fatalities and the loss of a number of Royal Navy vessels, was a personal triumph for Margaret Thatcher and would prove to be the defining moment of her premiership. [/i]

PeterPoddy - Member

thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry,

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW

Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post

Your opinion , my opinion, history will tell the truth and is.

Good to an STW grown up discussion in progress. Can't be long before the chop is delivered by the mods/stasi...

PP ar eyou claiming thatcher was so politically naive that it did nto cross her mind tha **** might just make her popular if she had a war

and it carries on

Also all the sailors that where killed on the Belgrano and other ships, no need at all.

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW

(or else like Ernie - honorary northener. I'd add in Billy Bragg but I think they're the same person 😉 )

see the edit [the **** was typo that got swear filterd but I altered it it will be obvious what word was formed]and excatly what is wrong with what I said? Thatcher really gave no thought to the election then is that your claim?

Yep totally northern working class thats me.

It would be interesting to compare public support for the Falklands war at the time and the Iraq war under Blair.

Both supported by the media, especially one media magnate it appears.

like Ernie - honorary northener

Cheeky git ........ I don't even like Norf Landan.

In fact, I come from [i]Sarf[/i] Croydon.

And I was brought up in SW London......went to school in SE London.

.....southerner through and through me

[i]What on earth do you think the Soviet Union would have made of it if the second most powerful country in NATO hadn't bothered to defend it's own territory against a third rate Latin American state?[/i]

ermm, pretty much nothing actually. What exactly do you think the Soviet Union would have done, launched an attack on the UK ?

[i]That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW [/i]

Really ! I have only been using this site for about a month and i've seen a lot worse than that. I don't argue that was the sole reason for the war but i do think it played a significant part. She really was in a mess before that war.

Mind you, i too am a northener and personally think she was the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime so i suppose i am a bit biased.

Well you don't need to rely on STW to read that "bitter twisted pile of crap"........it is a very widespread point of view held by many people across society.

you really think that the government of the time in collusion with the armed forces, intelligence services and the foriegn power decided to set in train a series of events.... defence review, withdrawl of HMS Endurance, citizenship legislation in order to create events that would increase their popularity at the time via a conflict at the furthest reaches of the military in a difficult environment etc etc?

tin foil hat anyone?

There is no doubt at all that Thatcher was the most unpopular British Prime ever recorded before the Falklands War. Nor is there any doubt at all that she benefited hugely from the Falklands War.

unpopular politians benefiting from events shocka

Also all the sailors that where killed on the Belgrano and other ships, no need at all.

It's tired and been done to death so let it go.
Besides, more have been killed during the labour wars.

I don't argue that was the sole reason for the war but i do think it played a significant part

unpopular politians benefiting from events shocka

Mind you, i too am a northener and personally think she was the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime so i suppose i am a bit biased.

Thatcher wasn't a Southerner, so she must have been a Northerner.

And her Finchley seat was in North London.......need I say more ?

[i]you really think that the government of the time in collusion with the armed forces, intelligence services and the foriegn power decided to set in train a series of events.... defence review, withdrawl of HMS Endurance, citizenship legislation in order to create events that would increase their popularity at the time via a conflict at the furthest reaches of the military in a difficult environment etc etc?[/i]

No i don't think that they deliberately manipulated it as you describe above but i do think they saw an opportunity when it presented itself.

thatcher was created in greengrocers in grantham

unpopular politians benefiting from events shocka

Ahhh.........we're getting somewhere ! 8)

big and daft has eventually come round to accepting the proposition.....anyone else ?

you really think that the government of the time in collusion with the armed forces, intelligence services and the foriegn power decided to set in train a series of events.... defence review, withdrawl of HMS Endurance, citizenship legislation in order to create events that would increase their popularity at the time via a conflict at the furthest reaches of the military in a difficult environment etc etc?

No, I don't think that at all. What I can never fathom though, is how the Thatcher regime was feted for the so called victory rather than booted from office for allowing the invasion to take place ❓

I'd hope Thatcher as a mother would not have sent our troops off to war just to gain votes. I suspect, the chances of victory were not much better than defeat.

At least today with over 1000 troops stationed down there on continual exercise and proper support there won't be any future invasion.

1000 troops for now until the defence cuts cull them

you suggesting Dave may have the same plan to get out of his election pickle 😉

What I can never fathom though, is how the Thatcher regime was feted for the so called victory rather than booted from office for allowing the invasion to take place

Well she successfully managed to pin the blame on her Foreign Secretary Lord Carrington, and he was forced to resign for the failure of British foreign policy in the lead up to the Falkland's invasion.

But I take your point - Anthony Eden was forced to resign as PM because of the **** up which was Suez.

yet when I suggested she may have taken this into account you called it tosh

because it is

option 1
the cabinet meets, someone says wars make us popular (if we win) lets do it

option 2
the cabinet meets, discusses doing nothing bins the idea, military desperate to demonstrate there value in the context of massive pending cuts go "can do", ergo you either go to war to prevent the consequences of not (the rolling up of other similar places, etc) or you or you don't and face being seen as weak by everyone

etc etc

I would suggest that a far more complex version of option 2 occurred

But I take your point - Anthony Eden was forced to resign as PM because of the **** up which was Suez.

we lost in Suez

Thatcher would have known that and also that the odds in the Falklands of winning were probably lower

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.
The Falklands war cost the lives of around 900 service men and 3 civilians. The Iraq war is estimated at around 100,000 civilians alone. I don't think anyone can claim a moral high ground on this subject leave it to the historians to paint the real villians.

Thatcher! Thatcher! Thatcher! Blah! Blah! Blah!

The Falklands was a sideshow compared with the self righteous bull that's been Iraq and Afghanistan.

BBC News a good bloke dies and his dog joins him - Russia Today 8 Afghan boys under the age of 12 die on the same day in 'misunderstanding'
What gets reported?

As an ex-soldier I'm tired of war,

iirc carrington was the only one to oppose the original decison to remove the ship but he took one for the team.

[i]I would suggest that a far more complex version of option 2 occurred [/i]

I would suggest a combination of option 1 and 2 occured.

[i]Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.[/i]

I am generally more left wing than right (can you tell !) so Labour is my natural "home" but i would never try to defend the Iraq invasion. Bloody shameful is all i can say.

It would be interesting to compare public support for the Falklands war at the time and the Iraq war under Blair.

we lost in Suez

That's not the reason Anthony Eden resigned. He resigned because the British government's policy over Suez was clearly wrong - it was a foreign policy blunder/disaster.

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.

[i]I would suggest that a far more complex version of option 2 occurred

I would suggest a combination of option 1 and 2 occured. [/i]
sounds about right

while i dont think she wanted to start a war im sure she was happy to exacerbate the conflict for her own political ends

never underestimate a pms desire to cling to power , thatcher herself was well past her sell by date when she was finally pushed out
blair, brown etc

and a good bit of flag waving low risk RAF action in the middle east will nicely distract from the slash and burn of the public sector, privatisation of the nhs etc

and a good bit of flag waving low risk RAF action in the middle east will nicely distract from the slash and burn of the public sector, privatisation of the nhs etc

Careful now........that's likely to be described as [i]"the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW"[/i]

In the case of the Falklands, I believe the phrase is "a nods as good as a wink". All the noises coming from the foreign office invited the Junta to hop on over there and make a land grab. What they did not count on would be the outcry from the British press (of a certain kind) still purporting the myth that we as a country had an effective fighting force.

The only thing world class brought to bear in that episode was the rhetoric and the air to air missiles that the Americans gave us.

ernie_lynch - Member

and a good bit of flag waving low risk RAF action in the middle east will nicely distract from the slash and burn of the public sector, privatisation of the nhs etc

Careful now........that's likely to be described as "the most bitter twisted pile of crap I've ever read on STW"

i wish it was bitter and twisted, i just cant see any other reason why cameron & hague seem to be pushing so hard for intervention, perhaps some misguided arrogant blairesque belief in their own righteousness?
of course there is all that oil stuff too.........

the myth that we as a country had an effective fighting force.

Except that it wasn't a myth, we [i]did[/i] have 'an effective fighting force'

The only thing world class brought to bear in that episode was the rhetoric and the air to air missiles that the Americans gave us.

So, not the incredible feat of arms involved in fighting many thousands of miles from your country/nearest air/naval bases (but within range of your enemy's air bases) and triumphing in spite of frequently reversing the commonly held adage that a 3:1 numerical advantage is required in order to ensure victory against a well entrenched opponent?