[Closed] anyone on here voted SNP. why?

Because the more folk that vote for them the more SNP threads will appear on STW and we can never have enough of those.

Because labour are a shambles and there's no point voting Green in the UK elections. Plus i'm pro-indy(although I could settle for a proper federal system.) Plus I fully support the SNPs bid to go much further than the Smith commission.

Its an extra notch for you, Colin!

I'm pro independence and my wife is a member, and forces me not to vote Green.

Plus how could you vote for Labour or the Tories? Really?

To give the English something else to whinge about.
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Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

I tried but there wasn't one locally

Bugger I agree with Al

Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

"A vote for independence is not a vote for the SNP"

😆

cynic-al - Member
Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

I'm fed up with westminster politics but living in the England don't have an option! Never quite sure what a middle Englanders is. Most people are broadly middle class so it seems like a good way to insult most English people in a slightly passive aggressive manor. Or is it one particular small section of society?

I'm fed up with westminster politics but living in the England don't have an option

Another +1 for Cynic-Al

What Al said too.

In the run up to the referendum, the thought of going into the next Westminster election and seeing the Tories back in, probably leading to an EU referendum, and more whining on from UKIP about the 'bloody foreigners' and backed by a self-satifying Westminster system made my mind up. (Well there was more than that, but I can't be bothered going through it all)

You do. Start a political party

I'm not a ****

Most people are broadly middle class

And that nonsense view illustrates perfectly what a middle englander is. Most people are not broadly middle class.

Start a political party.

Oh don't be silly.

Where are you going to get anything like enough funding and support? It takes decades.

And cynic_al +2 here.

(And I did not even vote SNP)

Yes.
See Cynic-al.
Possible to risk Tories getting in knowing that Labour were offering more or less the same deal but with a complete gravitas bypass.

Anti-Tory vote plus a need for Scotland to have one voice.

The SNP chap in our area only beat the Tories by 300 votes plus the next constituency to us is the only Tory.

I'm English, if that matters.

Yep. I know a lot of disabled people. Had a lot of opportunities due to my parents free further education. I got one too. Sandi toksvig womans party also going to do well. You could join that? They take men too.

Will support the Greens when the SNP's job is done, unless it gets too late, in which case politics may be redundant.

b r - Member
I'm English, if that matters.

b r The Borders have traditionally largely voted Liberal to keep the Tory out. There is a real danger a Tory will get in next election as the SNP Lib vote will be more evenly split.

I was worried that I was going to live in the only Tory seat in Scotland!

And that nonsense view illustrates perfectly what a middle englander is. Most people are not broadly middle class.

I'll explain why I think this is the case, you might be able to convince me otherwise, but you can start off without trying to drop snyde remarks. I'm curious to what people are defining as a middle englander, so I posted a question, please respond with a decent point.

I'm not really sure class works as a very good divider of society now tbh. Perhaps my phrasing is wrong to say most people but I would consider middle class to be the largest class.

Obviously very few people are upper class as these are the aristocracy, born into some level of society, different from being just rich. Probably sucked up to some king or Queen at some point.

Working class used to be broadly defined as people who did manual labour. This is a pretty rubbish definition IMO as you catch farmers, craftsmen, trades e.t.c in this definition. If you include all of these people to be working class then you have to include most other people as working class and you are only left with business owners, lawyers and doctors as middle class.

I think the closest thing we have to working class now is unskilled labour. Working in unskilled factory positions, shelf stacking e.t.c.

You may disagree and think only business owners, lawyers and doctors as middle class, which is a valid argument but really the people you have moved are still a massive and probably largest group of society and still represent the middle bit, even if you don't regard them as middle class, they are the middle bit.

By middle English I don't mean average or middle class, but small minded folk looking after their own interests and not wanting much change.

I thought the accepted term for that was little englander, I've never heard the term middle english before.

Start a political party.
Oh don't be silly.

Where are you going to get anything like enough funding and support? It takes decades.

See, that's the interesting thing about the SNP.

Even a decade ago, the idea that the SNP would look like it does today was faintly ridiculous. What they have done is grow from the ground up. It can be done. They haven't become popular because Alex Salmond is a popular messiah, or because the logo's amazing.

Its because the party, and importantly its leadership, is made up of people who are largely representative of the population of Scotland - men, women, younger, older, born here, not born here, wealthy, not wealthy, from comfortable backgrounds, from disadvantaged backgrounds - people who aren't entirely dissimilar from the people who go to the ballot box. The mainstream political parties at Westminster haven't been able to say that for a long time, and that's one of the root causes of the UK's current political malaise, and the often vicious tone of political commentary.

The people that make up a party is one thing, the policies another. The SNP are far from perfect in my eyes, but they have led an effective and largely popular coalition Scottish government and since then done likewise with a majority at Holyrood, while pursuing a fair amount of progressive and equitable policies and overseeing genuine improvements in a number of areas.

The vested interests that control the direction of the largest parties are never going to give up what they have to genuinely make your life better, It is going to take something that grows from the ground up.

In answer to the OP, I voted SNP for the first time at a GE. My sitting MP was an increasingly prominent Lib Dem, whose voting record I had previously found largely representative of my views and whose level of local engagement was what a good MP's should be. That all changed in 2010. I clearly wasn't the only East Dunbartonite to feel that way.

Al is spot on. There was never much point voting here in Glasgow, Labour always got in - then they went off and did what the central Labour party wanted. The invasion of Iraq was one nail in the coffin - I tried the usual thing of writing to my MP (several times) and got the same carbon-copy response as everyone else. I usually voted Green, on the theory that it's better to vote for something you believe in rather than just spoiling your vote. Even voted Lib Dem once to my shame, back when they were cool and rebellious.

The SNP never really appealed. They were a bit weird, obsessed with this one thing. And I really felt British. Several things made me change my mind about that - began to feel more and more Scottish rather than British. And the SNP changed, they were still about independence, but indpendence became a means to an end, not an end itself. The Scottish Governent also showed that the SNP were pretty competent in power too.

I still don't agree with all SNP policies, and I'm a Green party member not SNP. This election, though, voting for them made a lot of sense.

Still scratching my head over "middle English living in passive aggressive manors"???? 😈

Us n all Jimmy. Nice rioja btw.

For me, they are the only party of inclusion and willingness to let everyone have an opportunity because it is everyone's right to have an opportunity and not to the detriment of others.

Plus, a confidence I have in them that they want what is right for people, and that's a robust welfare and health care system and probably the thing that really swung me was when NS said on immigration that we should treat immigrants like we want our emigrants to be treated.

The thing is, apart from Green, there is no one else who remotely comes close. She is the ultimate headmistress when Milliband was the RE teacher and Cameron epitomises everything I hate about living in the UK. Lib dems were not an option. UKIP need shot in the head.

Oh and you aren't English as being Scottish is a state of mind. Independence, which the GE wasn't about, is not about English and Scottish, it's about living and working and getting on in fair terms regardless of where you come from.

You can feel English all you like and that's cool, but you are just another human being who is working, raising a family soon and being a good guy. Look beyond what you think you are and think about where you want to live.

What they have done is grow from the ground up. It can be done.

It CAN be done but it's extremely difficult. The SNP had a few things going for it - it's always been there as the nationalist option. The Molgrips Party hasn't. Nor do we have a regional assmebly to gain a footing in first before hitting the national stage.

That's not to say they haven't worked hard and had great leaders, because they have - but it's a case of right place right time as well. They were formed in 1934, so they've had a lot of time to learn about politics. If I started now and worked really hard, perhaps I could clean up in the 2095 election?

So - what party is closest to your ideal? You could "infiltrate" that and lead it to a few policy changes. Might be quicker than starting from scratch.

Yeah that's not a bad idea.

Sometimes I pretend I did to get a nasty, reductive and belligerent response from retirement age Tory voters like my dad.

Then say "Only joking, voted labour".

Nor do we have a regional assmebly

As I say I can see the benefits of a decentralised federal system and staying under a uk banner and be happy with that.

Will never happen mind you, so onwards with chipping away at the border with England bit by bit it is! 😆

Yep. Progressive, socially inclusive policies that are built from good ethical premises: don't go to war, don't vilify and punish the vulnerable, no one should be left behind.
I'm English and I love the willingness for inclusiveness that I feel is here. It's a world apart from some of the prevalent attitudes that I experience when I go back to where I'm originally from (Norfolk).

I would consider middle class to be the largest class.

Just because you dont get your hands dirty [ do manual labour] does not mean people are no longer working class.

The jobs the working class did and do changed their position[ and power] in the pecking order did not.

Its a pyramid [scheme] so the majority cannot be in the middle they need to be at the bottom supporting the top and making them wealthy.

cynic-al - Member
Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders

I was worried that I was going to live in the only Tory seat in Scotland!

what party is closest to your ideal? You could "infiltrate" that and lead it to a few policy changes. Might be quicker than starting from scratch.

I reckon the Liberal Democrats would consider any reasonable offer for their party, if someone was interested in an unwanted but perfectly formed political party.

You could probably buy their principles off them too, perhaps a cash offer for slightly soiled principles and a quick sale ?

I dont think you could give that away right now never mind sell it

[quote=ernie_lynch ]

what party is closest to your ideal? You could "infiltrate" that and lead it to a few policy changes. Might be quicker than starting from scratch.

I voted Snp because I support independence and also because I want to live in an inclusive society where vulnerable people can expect help.I would also like radical reform of our political system and real local councils..

Kunstler - Member
Yep. Progressive, socially inclusive policies that are built from good ethical premises: don't go to war, don't vilify and punish the vulnerable, no one should be left behind.

Yup.

Basically have a government that is for the benefit of the people.

Not one that oppresses the poor, the disadvantaged, the vulnerable, and making sure the lower orders stay that way by making education expensive. And especially not one that thinks defence is waging the USA's wars and posturing with the ultimate suicide weapon.

In many ways the recent governments have acted as if they loath the commoners.

Voted SNP, ultimately want to see independence, I don't think it's fair that rUK feels they subsidise Scotland, and want to see the back of trident, and Labour and Conservative are just two cheeks of the same arse, and felt that the previous Libdem mp for the last 30 odd years had achieved bugger all for us. Time we looked after ourselves and no longer had the excuse that our woes are Westminsters fault.

I actually voted green, cos I knew the snp we're going to walk it.

But I feel it's necessary for Scotland and pretty much anywhere outwith London Town to find a means to repel londons gravitational pull.

Nothing against London, but I prefer development to be more evenly spread across the UK, avoiding the overheating of the Sarff East and popularity of ukip.

In the UK it used to be like this up till the early 1970's...something to do with the Labour Party adopting a different approach to interest rates and the rise of the financial sector.

Now we seem to be caught up in the strange life cycle of moving to London for work and then moving back to the 'periphery' for retirement.

Though in Scotland we need the snp to break up the highland estates and recolonise the highlands, rather than cramming everyone into the central belt.

And the preservation of the highland estates in their current form is key to most of the problems in Scotland.
Always strikes me as odd, how little housing development there is north of strathblane...

I heard (anecdotally) that planning policy was designed to keep moving people off the highlands towards the central belt.
And I thought the clearances had ended.

Exactly - Greatbeardedone for President! For a small country we have loads of space. greenbelt and brownfield. So does England.

Loads of wee highland communities would love some permanent young folk, business startups and things. A the moment its just holiday makers for a few weeks, empty hooses, or people about to die, because you need to have about £500 000 under your belt to build a house anywhere in the highlands. The west coast and clyde should have waterways busy and communities like the cheasapeake bay.

(The SNP own an Island by the way)

I would also rebuild some of the buildings in East kilbride and Cumbernauld. East Kilbride perfect for a very local light railway.

I voted for them because I want a party with a commitment to removing nuclear weapons,and at least trying to provide help for the sick,elderly and unemployed in my area,something that would be easier to pay for it we had a spare 100 plus billion. My mates son was unlucky enough to be wearing his seatbelt in an armoured landy,so is paralysed from the middle of the chest down and has various limbs missing thanks to an illegal war,so I will never vote Labour again.The idea of those bastards coming up here and trying to invoke the spirit of Hardie et all just before the vote boils my wee. I starting voting when we were trying the Poll tax out for a year just to make sure it was OK,so got an early demonstration of the Tory party,and how they view us oiks. I lived in London on and off for 7/8 years and recognise they get the piss taken by the rich just as ordinary people do all over the country. Reading this over again seems like I voted SNP because the other main parties were so grim...

Oh;and in before the two main contributors to any thread on the SNP arrive 😛

Oh;and in before the two main contributors to any thread on the SNP arrive

😆

greatbeardedone - Member
...I heard (anecdotally) that planning policy was designed to keep moving people off the highlands towards the central belt.
And I thought the clearances had ended.

Westminster was just continuing the Scottish govt policy laid down by the Stuarts from the 1500s onwards. At least Westminster wasn't encouraging extermination of the Highlanders, just destruction of our culture and language. 🙁

As late as the 1960s there was a proposal to clear the rest of the North West Highlands to create a great national park.

If you ask me the SNP could be the saviour of England and GB. They will be able to bolster opposition to any tory policies, and are intending to oppose the anti HRA bill. I would have voted for a SNP candidate if they ran in Devon. The best way to get Scottish independence is for Scotland to take actually over England.

There's a unique thing about so many SNP MPs at Westminster - for the first time there's an opposition party that's not just been defeated. the SNP have the potential to be a proper opposition while the Labour Party spend years in the doldrums.

@greatbearded one there has been a huge move to urbanisation for 100 years, it's happening all over the world. It's perfectly natural to move to the cities for work, with the obvious side effect that the biggest city is the biggest draw.

On UKIP they finished second in many Northern constituencies, to see them as a party of the South is a mistake.

Regionalisation, only makes sense if there are local tax and spending powers. As the South East is the richest and most successful part of the UK anything which gives the South East more power (which regionalisation would do) will only further exaggerate the wealth divide as their tax raising power will be some much stronger and there will be a big incentive not to transfer tax revenues "North" as currently happens.

Scotland's increased taxation powers are going to backfire on Scots, wait and see.

It will be very interesting indeed if they raise income tax or corporation tax. I suspect that Berwick and Carlisle might prosper though 🙂

jambalaya - Member

Scotland's increased taxation powers are going to backfire on Scots, wait and see.

The question jambalaya was : [i]"anyone on here voted SNP. why?"[/i]

Personally I find it a fascinating question and certainly more interesting than a continuation of arguments you've had on other threads.

I'm waiting to see whether Labour, the LibDems, and the Tories, did so badly in Scotland because they were too left-wing.

@ernie agreed, I have been following the thread with some interest over the last day or so. People have made some interesting points not least on regionalisation of power int he UK so I thought I'd chip in on those. Not so hard hard to figure out if you actually think about it, no ?

It will be very interesting indeed if they raise income tax or corporation tax. I suspect that Berwick and Carlisle might prosper though

UKIP they finished second in many Northern constituencies

Any chance you could but an actual number to these vague statements as they seem imprecise and to vary depending on the subject you are discussing.

Not sure why they will give an area that wants to remain in the union [ god bless that Ulster plantation who still as loyal as the day we deposited them there] more powers than an area that is being a bit shouty about leaving.

Not the best way to preserve the Union and seems a bit of an own goal in giving them an easy way to blame Westminster for treating them unfairly

and just post once will you there is an edit function 😛

I'd voted Labour in every previous GE but they are currently a shambles. I'd been voting SNP in Scottish Elections for a while, again Scottish Labour have been a talent vacuum up here for years.

The SNP's nationalism has also evolved to be much more inclusive and less divisive than previously.

People should be proud of the place they live (not just where they are from) and work to make that place better for everyone in it. Scotland's people are anyone who wants to live, work or raise a family here regardless of origin and the SNP want to stand up for all of them.

I find this idea of positive "civic nationalism" very appealing and its an idea that Nicola Sturgeon has managed to convey a lot better than Alex Salmond (who is still prone to the occasional slip back to Braveheart style oratory - "A Scottsh Lion has roared" FFS!)

Plus Nicola Sturgeon lives round the corner from me and said hello to me when I was out for a walk with my daughter!

"A Scottsh Lion has roared" FFS!

Yes that amused me every time I saw it repeated on the news 🙂

In a similar vein was George Galloway's "the hyena can bounce on the lion's grave but it can never be a lion".

I wonder if they went to the same school ?

Are you suggesting that THM is really Gorgeous George trolling?

SNP. Pro indy, anti-nuke, tories can't be trusted and labour clueless.
The chance of holding our own future in our own hands sometime in the future appeals to me, hopefuly sooner rather than later.

Voted SNP because I agree with most of their policys and they are not an off shoot of an English policitcal party

I was across on the Kintyre peninsula at the weekend. A very lovely and fairly isolated spot of Scotland.
On the drive across, passing through some of the small villages and townships, I was wondering whether someone like David Cameron (or any other person of the main Westminster parties) would even know where these places were. Let alone whether he would know what the people there need from the government that represents them to lead a happy existence.

@rugby, I am guessing Cameron does know where Kintyre is not least as none of us of a certain age can get that song out of our heads. 😐 I imagine he thinks the Holyrood parliament has the wherewithall to ensure Kintyre gets the appropriate portion of the £8bn "extra" Westminster sends to Scotland every year. That would seem to be Holyrood's job otherwise what's the point of devolved powers ?

I was always a labour voter, quite franky Scottish labour weren't worthy of my vote so it went to the SNP.

It wasn't even close in my area, "safe" labour area post ravenscraig. SNP candidate got nearly double the labour vote.

ernie_lynch - Member

"A Scottsh Lion has roared" FFS!

Yes that amused me every time I saw it repeated on the news

In a similar vein was George Galloway's "the hyena can bounce on the lion's grave but it can never be a lion".

I wonder if they went to the same school ?

Posted 1 hour ago #

I went to the same school as Dode Galloway,that sort of colourful turn of phrase was beaten out of me at an early age. Having said that,he spoke at a rugby club dinner I was at and was probably the best public speaker I have ever heard.

@cbike: you're far too kind! Though I always thought in a not too distant future, the Clyde could be like the Puget sound, with Dunoon as a kind of Seattle!
And,
@epicyclo: agree, and I'm just articulating a general desire amongst many scots to reclaim their country after many centuries of nonsense on the land issue.
Though I feel that the snp may have members who see any particular land grab purely in their own self interest, especially once HS2 reaches Glasgow.

@jambalaya: yes urbanisation has increased globally, especially in developing countries where it seems to have been foisted upon them from a great height.
But, for a mature post industrial country like Scotland is urbanisation relevant?
I would speculate that cities are more expensive to administer per head of population than rural areas.
And I also believe that many urban dwellers are not suited to city life, but it's convenient for whoevers in control to keep them there.
Yes it sounds snobbish, but not a class or intelligence thing, more of a gut feeling that cities are a haven for heretics, refugees, and erm, students.
Urbanisation is also bad for people's health in general.

Yes, ukip has also won votes in the north east, but I guess it gets more vitriolic the closer you get to the south east.

Personally I never bothered much about the trident issue and I don't think the austerity issue was to the fore of many snp voters.

Ignoring the land issue, I'm actually quite puzzled myself as to why so many voted snp, given the searing class enmity between many scots many of whom are of the zero sum mentality where any improvement in 'life chances' by the working class are seen as a threat to their well being. So I don't see vast swathes of the Scottish electorate turning to the left.

I feel that the snp should retain UK tax rates for the foreseeable future. That way they could initiate some radical roads/ pro cycling policies without having to worry about losing revenue from fuel duty.

On a side note, I feel that Scottish labour were probably glad to get out of the limelight. Given the amount of time that they held control over Scotland, there must have been huge potential for all manner of shenanigans.

Ignoring the land issue, I'm actually quite puzzled myself as to why so many voted snp, given the searing class enmity between many scots many of whom are of the zero sum mentality where any improvement in 'life chances' by the working class are seen as a threat to their well being. So I don't see vast swathes of the Scottish electorate turning to the left.

They won't turn to the left in droves, but they are very much centre to slight left imo, which is why the SNP got so many votes, as that's what the SNP largely promoted themselves as.

That and nobody believes a word that comes out of a labour politicians mouth anymore.

Saying that I expect the Greens to send a decent block to holyrood next year, somewhere in the 10-20 range would be my guess.

I voted Green jimmy, since the SNP are not as Left as they/their ardent followers promote them as being (e.g. see low corporation tax, proposed end to corroboration, Council tax freezes, continued support for oil and gas and so on).

Not to say that they aren't more 'progressive' (whatever the **** that means) than ConLibLab, but other than the nationalist core ethic, I think they are a populist party who will do/say whatever it takes to stay popular rather than adhering to core principles. The public don't always know what's good for them...

I feel that Scottish labour were probably glad to get out of the limelight.

Well that's a new spin on Labour's unprecedented electoral disaster in Scotland - they're glad that they are down to just one MP because now everyone will ignore them for a while.

It turns out that Jim Murphy was more cunning than I thought, no wonder he hasn't been forced to resign.

It is so bad for Labour that they were touting Kezia as the new leader.Image is so important for public figures,Murphy hasn't got a good one and by extension of that neither does the Scottish branch. (Nice of Millicent to make it clear during the campaign,thats all Murphy was representing)

Well that's a new spin on Labour's unprecedented electoral disaster in Scotland - they're glad that they are down to just one MP because now everyone will ignore them for a while.

If only. Scottish Questions will be the one Scottish Labour MP asking questions of the one Scottish Tory MP, while 56 SNP MPs look on. It'll be a joke - how many different ways will he be able to ask "Does my learned friend agree with me that the SNP are leading the civilised world towards oblivion?"

Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

[i]It will be very interesting indeed if they raise income tax or corporation tax. I suspect that Berwick and Carlisle might prosper though [/i]

Or maybe we could reduce Employers NI (by a decent amount), and attract loads of telephone/support/office jobs?

So you voted for the SNP, which is serving the interests of Ann Gloag and Rupert Murdoch? Well, I suppose you couldn't call them Middle Englanders, that's true...

Oh, hang on, you just have!

@ernielynch

Labours election campaign seemed less vociferous and low key, especially in contrast to their support of the 'no' campaign.

So you voted for the SNP, which is serving the interests of Ann Gloag and Rupert Murdoch? Well, I suppose you couldn't call them Middle Englanders, that's true...
You couldn't make it up.
Oh, hang on, you just have!