I saw exorcisms at a Christian festival, Spring Harvest, in the 1990s.
I assume they were Pentecostals or some such group?
No mainline Christian Church would seriously countenance random (or even not-so-random) exorcisms.
I would say that an atheist is of the understanding that they have broken free of the need to lead their life based on irrational "religious" beliefs be that a god or energy force for example.
My point being that all human beliefs/thoughts/worlds we create for our selves are at their basis full of contradictions and inconsistencies and irrational. There is no rationality to life. Maybe that is why it is so much fun.
I saw exorcisms at a Christian festival, Spring Harvest, in the 1990s.
I assume they were Pentecostals or some such group?No mainline Christian Church would seriously countenance random (or even not-so-random) exorcisms.
I think it was the same people who organise http://www.springharvest.org/about/ , so fairly mainstream.
GEDA..
I'm not pointing a finger at anyone ..I asked a fairly genuine question which wasn't answered by yourself ..instead you chose to re-write some of my own observations ..
To clarify ..the actual question was " As you get older do you worry more about death ..or is this something you are looking forward to?
If you feel uncomfortable answering that ..no problem ..I just didn't really appreciate the smart arsed reply .
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To clarify ..the actual question was " As you get older do you worry about death ..or is this something you are looking forward to?
If you feel uncomfortable answering that ..no problem ..I just didn't really appreciate the smart arsed reply .
I worry about not being alive, though when it's over it's over. No point hanging around and worrying about what comes next, nothing does
I would say that an atheist is of the understanding that they have broken free of the need to lead their life based on irrational "religious" beliefs be that a god or energy force for example.
you can say that all you want but I've not broken free of anything. I just don't believe in the existence of god(s). We are not born into this world believing in a god or needing to believe. Atheism is such a simple concept to understand yet you seem to **** that up for some reason.
As you get older do you worry about death ..or is this something you are looking forward to?
I don't worry about it at all but it is also not something I look forward to.
Dying isn't a problem, it is usually the last few years before dying that can be grim but I have a plan to cut that bit short which interestingly many religions wouldn't allow/agree with...
We are not born into this world needing to believe
Maybe some people are. If they have a specific personality disorder which leads them to needing to believe. This disorder gets passed on genetically.
Take 10 new borns to an island and see which half starts making up gods and stuff as they grow up. Can also see which are racist, which are homophobic etc,.
Great experiment (maybe not for the kids involved though!)
Call god what you want but it is just one way for us to organise purpose into an otherwise irrational and cosmically pointless lives. Purpose is good it makes us happy and do things. It is just my opinion that calling oneself an atheist is pretty pointless as one still has the same kind of opinions about what is right or wrong that are based on human creativity.
calling oneself an atheist is pretty pointless
OK... You stop the sky fairy nonsense and we will drop the name... Oh hang on....
Maybe some people are. If they have a specific personality [s]disorder[/s] which leads them to needing to believe.
Why is it a disorder? Very very arrogant of you to assume anyone who doesn't agree with you on a topic is mentally deficient.
Call god what you want but it is just one way for us to organise purpose into an otherwise irrational and cosmically pointless lives.Â
That sounds like a belief in which you have faith.
500 posts....Moley must be rubbing his hands together with glee!
What's next I wonder...must be time for a new Brexit thread?
GEDA - Member
Call god what you want but it is just one way for us to organise purpose into an otherwise irrational and cosmically pointless lives
Except many people have managed to get past that quite happily
Purpose is good it makes us happy and do things.
feel like I have purpose and a reason to live, and enjoy myself. I can contribute to a country or place or community. If that is all you want then it's entirely possible without all the pain and angst
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-19/christian-school-discriminated-against-five-year-old-sikh-boy/8961900
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-19/same-sex-marriage-nsw-premier-breaks-ranks-with-her-church/8960534?WT.ac=statenews_nsw
What I meant was that it's a more comforting thought that someone you have loved and lost continues to exist in some form rather than having permenantly ceased to exist.
I asked a question concerning this earlier but you probably missed it. So, that being the case - your belief in an existence after what we are now - would the whole thing be less attractive without that notion...?
Worth repeating this.
People seem to have missed it.
A genuine equestion for the "how can you believe in imaginary sky fairy" types.Is it OK to believe in an actual, historically documented human being who had some nice things to say about how they thought people should behave to live a good life?
You don't need to believe that they were possessed of any mystical powers or anything.
Only that they were real people, who must have been considered pretty hot shit by their contemporaries to be remmembered after all this time, who dispensed real lessons which might still resonate with people hundred or even thousands of years later?
nealglover - Member
Worth repeating this.People seem to have missed it.
What's your thought on my reply? All those people from history remembered, quoted, revered, hated, loved and influential.
your belief in an existence after what we are now - would the whole thing be less attractive without that notion...?
It would be no more or less attractive. It's not like buying a car where you have a tick list of features that might be deal breakers.
If it had, I would have gone for a more exotic, sexy reincarnation based religion.
It was the furthest thing from my contemplation when I first walked through the doors of a church.
People buy a certain type of dwelling, transport vehicle, food as they have a set of ideas in their head that this is good and will lead to a better life etc even if it is not a conscious decision.
These ideas are not based on any great truth or rationality anymore than religion is. They are based on the imaginative creativity of our human minds to create a purposeful life. It is a huge strength for us as a species that we have that creativity to create other worlds in our heads.
What's your thought on my reply? All those people from history remembered, quoted, revered, hated, loved and influential
The point is, did you believe in them?
They were all undoubtedly real people and they had something to say.
So, according to almost all historians, were Confucius, Buddha and Jesus Christ?
Are we allowed to believe in them as human beings with a message to tell?
Not imaginary, not fairies. Real people.
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Sorry Perchy, this is the only image popping in to my head there 🙂
Are we allowed to believe in them as human beings with a message to tell?Not imaginary, not fairies. Real people.
Good people generally live by rule 1 don't be a dick, that is fine. If you want to add in the supreme being, plans, heaven and hell then that is a different tale and proposition.
The lessons Will Shakes teaches us in Romeo and Juliet are very powerful and important, Along with the moral of King Richard III of never leave your horse unlocked in a rough neighbourhood
Good people generally live by rule 1 don't be a dick, that is fine.
The issue with that is defining what constitutes being a dick.
So, according to almost all historians, were Confucius, Buddha and Jesus Christ?
no direct evidence of Budda, evidence of someone called Jesus is hearsay as is the evidence of Confucius.
.We are not born into this world believing in a god
There's some fascinating fiction on this subject. Children isolated from the world to see if they have an innate knowledge of God.
Jill Patton Walsh's [i]Knowledge of Angels[/i] is a tough read but a good start. I'd also (once again) recommend CS Lewis' books - the ones that don't have lions.
The issue with that is defining what constitutes being a dick.
I'll kick off with Racist, homophobic, sexist and warmongering then we can kick on with the really bad stuff
I think it was the same people who organise http://www.springharvest.org/about/ , so fairly mainstream.
Just checked, and they're definitely of the Pentecostal persuasion. In the world of Evangelicalism, it can be hard to discern who is mainstream and who is not, but these folk definitely do not represent mainstream Christianity.
By mainstream, I mean, in no particular order:
Catholic
Orthodox
Anglican
Lutheran
Presbyterian
Methodist
United Reformed
The list isn't exhaustive, but by and large these bodies would all be represented at the World Council of Churches.
(Many) Evangelical (though not all) and Pentecostal churches are not 'mainline', and are generally accountable only to themselves. In other words, what they do, say, and believe can be quite arbitrary.
like?
Fun
Eyebrows
DNA lengthening
no direct evidence of Budda, evidence of someone called Jesus is hearsay as is the evidence of Confucius.
Really? what do you mean by 'direct' evidence? and where do you get that Confucius is hearsay? What do you mean by that?
All of what we know about historical figures is seen through the prism of historical documents not fact. They have lived their lives, written things or been written about for example and then maybe someone has written about that. It becomes no different to a story after the initial actions of those people. If they were real people or events becomes irrelevant after that point.
warmongering
That's difficult to define too
I'll kick off with Racist, homophobic, sexist and warmongering then we can kick on with the really bad stuff
As I keep pointing out - Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. Those things you posted aren't very objective.
[quoteThe issue with that is defining what constitutes being a dick.
And where should we look for guidance on this?
no direct evidence of Budda, evidence of someone called Jesus is hearsay as is the evidence of Confucius.
poah, where on earth do you get your 'facts' from?
Evidence for the existence of Jesus is textual and residually archaeological in the same way that evidence for Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars is textual and residually archaeological.
Most academics would accept this, regardless of faith persuasion.
And where should we look for guidance on this?
Good question. If it were easy, I imagine we'd have had it sorted by now 🙂
poah, where on earth do you get your 'facts' from?
"yeah, but sky fairies"
FunEyebrows
DNA lengthening
what about fun, eyebrowns and DNA lengthening?
Really? what do you mean by 'direct' evidence? and where do you get that Confucius is hearsay? What do you mean by that
seriously?
Nealglover I ignored it the first time you posted it (athiests rule one) but, go on, what is the actual documented recorded evidence for jesus outside of the new testament ? is there even a record of Nazareth existing in 4 BCE ?or of Herod's slaughter of the innocents?
poah, where on earth do you get your 'facts' from?Evidence for the existence of Jesus is textual and residually archaeological in the same way that evidence for Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars is textual and residually archaeological.
Most academics would accept this, regardless of faith persuasion.
evidence for Jesus is written after the fact by other people (jews and Christians).
Julius Caesar has direct evidence for his existence
what is the actual documented recorded evidence for jesus outside of the new testament ? is there even a record of Nazareth existing in 4 BCE ?or of Herod's slaughter of the innocents?
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died ]Take a read through this[/url].
So archeological evidence is nil ( not actually a surprise that one) and the first reference written almost 100years after his death.
That doesn't sound awfully convincing if I'm honest.
Evidence for the existence of Jesus is textual and residually archaeological
What archaeological evidence is there for Jesus?
@gonefishin: Well, I'm sorry to say that that's how a great deal of historical evidence from antiquity and late antiquity is, so I guess it's back to the drawing board for a lot of what we believe to be true about the past.
And to be clear, I said 'residually archaeological'. What this means is that other archaeological evidence sets the figure in question into context, and contributes to the primary premise - in this case, that the person Jesus actually existed.
Have you got any good factual evidence about the universe came about? I mean pre Big bang, pre False Vacuum (Not that I really understood it when I read about it)?
I know I am here but how the heck did it get here? If we create a virtual environment containing an intelligent consciousness that only knows and can only know the virtual environment it exists in would it have the same questions?
If you go back in history the belief in a supreme being is quite a new and recent development. People used to believe in inanimate objects rather than gods or supreme beings, such as worshiping the sun, fire, the moon etc. so there is no evidence that someone born into isolation would dream up the idea of a supreme being over just, through ignorance and lack of education about the motion of the solar system, be thankful to the sun for coming up every day worrying that one day fearful that one day it wont rise.
Religions are built on what stories people choose to believe and what they choose not to believe for no sensible reason or logic. You can believe if you want that there was a jolly nice chap around 2000 years ago that said some nice things....apparently. There is evidence that Jesus existed, although there is no evidence other than legend, folklore and stories passed down the generations that he was anything other than a nice chap who said some nice things.
But there is other folklore, legends and stories passed down through the generations that suggest he was born of a mother who like a bit of slap and tickle behind her husbands back with the odd Roman soldier and had a talent for telling tall stories and people believing her, and who himself was partial to partying all night with flowing red wine and the odd lady of the night. However these legends and folklore some people choose to dismiss with a nonchalant wave of their hand are just as relevant and likely to be true, and hey presto, a religion is born on the strength of that filtering and picking and choosing of who we put on pedestals and who we demonise.
