[Closed] Anyone a technology developer? need help

An idea isn't patentable, so far as I know.
You need to design it first..... describe it clearly, make it, show yourself it works. Talk to an IP lawyer.

Thanks for your info.. I didnt actually mean patent the 'Idea' I mean to patent the idea once I found help regarding the technology I need help with. cheers tho

Don't tell anyone until you have non-disclosure agreements in place. And even then be careful.
Once you tell anyone, you'll find it hard to get a patent.

This product once in place is will be used worldwide(with some exceptions) and also posibly funded by governments and also be something made mandatory in all vehicles.

With respect, I suspect that's unlikely.

Thanks for your info.. I didnt actually mean patent the 'Idea' I mean to patent the idea once I found help regarding the technology I need help with. cheers tho

Again, you don't patent an idea, you patent a solution that has to contain an "innovative step", have no prior art (i.e. no-one ever had done it before) and be sufficiently different to count as something new. You need to be very, very specific too - that's why patent lawyers get paid a lot of money.

Once you've got your solution designed, then you can think about whether anything in it is patentable.

Also - it's expensive. More importantly, it's pointless unless you have the funds to defend any infringement.

Don't get hung up on the patent. Design the solution first, then go hunting for prior art - I used to use Google Patents as a first port of call which generally proved 99.99% of the things we looked at had prior art. The patent experts then found the missing 0.01%.

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/?tbm=pts&gws_rd=ssl ]https://www.google.co.uk/?tbm=pts&gws_rd=ssl[/url]

As an example, this is what you get if you put "transmitter bicycle" into the patent search:

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=pts&q=transmitter+bicycle&oq=transmitter+bicycle&gs_l=psy-ab.3...0.0.0.19071.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.jgxHM_wI9nA ]https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=pts&q=transmitter+bicycle&oq=transmitter+bicycle&gs_l=psy-ab.3...0.0.0.19071.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.jgxHM_wI9nA[/url]

Use various key words related to your idea. See what comes up.

Here's "transmitter receiver vehicle worldwide" - over 17000 results.

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=pts&q=transmitter+receiver+vehicle+worldwide&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK_uOv-uXVAhUNKlAKHWiMAiAQvwUIJigA&biw=1536&bih=754 ]https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=pts&q=transmitter+receiver+vehicle+worldwide&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK_uOv-uXVAhUNKlAKHWiMAiAQvwUIJigA&biw=1536&bih=754[/url]

Thanks all to replying.. appreciate you have time to answer... I'm just looking for someone with technology expertise.. the small details you are pointing out I know thats not the advice I'm looking for but appreciated anyway.. hope you all had a god weekend and Ride On!!

@Beej.. Yeah thanks for the last part of your info seems good stuf.. and yes I know you don't patent an idea sorry for my lack of writting things to specifics. ta muchly tho

"technology" or "electronics" developer?

Plenty of people could help your with the h/w if you know what you want to do!

Radio frequency? Band choice is an interesting one.

My employer recently took another look at RF remote controls. 2.4GHz 802.11 is quite expensive (relatively). Bluetooth is cheaper but in our case ends up about the same price because of reasons. The hardware for using the unlicensed VHF bands (garage door openers) is much cheaper but also physically much larger (longer wavelength) and no end of annoying problems with interference as well as the lack of international standardization (different vhf bands in different countries).

In the end we stuck with 802.11.

It's pretty expensive to develop any kind of electronic product and you'll be expected by any partner to stump up some cash ( expect tens of thousands). A patent is expensive too, my honest advice would be to approach a uni that has a set up that may help, you'll have to give up some element of control and possibly some degree of IP, BUT you stand more chance of stuff like innovate UK funding and commercial interest. There is no chance of this govt supporting you without a very strong reason and they are likely to expect far more than an idea or even proof of concept. Good luck though and keep banging on doors!

Patents are pretty worthless unless you have the financial fire power to defend them in court - which can easily run into £ms. You have to enforce them by suing the company violating it and a high court battle over complex technology with expert witnesses on £k/day and lawyers on several times that, is outside the resources of most SMEs...

Im not clear about what you actually have to pass over to a developer.
Are you effectively saying, this is a problem, produce a solution for me and I'll run with it? Or ca nyou show a prototype that needs improving?

In cycling analogies, are you telling your developer: I want you to find a way of stopping my chain slipping off my chainring, or

Design me a chainring with alternating narrow & wide teeth to mesh better with the chain? Some clarification might be useful.

Also if you are looking to get it into automotive then it needs to be a: cheap, b: cheap and c: cheap. Getting into automotive is incredibly difficult and they don't open doors to small players. Your device would have to bring substantial benefits and go though massive amounts of testing before it would be approved and most of that would be at your cost. Being RF makes it even harder, and if it's an additional safety feature then good luck!. If however it improves performance or reduces manufacturing cost (ideally both then you may stand a chance). This other thing will be timescales which WILL be long!. I don't want to put you off but I do similar stuff and it's incredibly hard expensive work even when you have support and as I say is look a universities ( approach their engineering depts) and see if you can get a PhD student on board with your idea it will cost an element of ownership but you'll get a fair bit done. Universities these days are set up for spin out and so a business could be created off the back of that work. Again, good luck!

Thanks again all and especially the informative answers.. as per the post I am just looking for someone who enjoys develpoing systems using frequency transmitters and receivers..
Yes all has been thought of regarding shares and cost and so on and so on.. Luckily I'm not greedy and have an idea the is to do with safety and once developed would be interesting to all governments around the world(with exceptions) not saying they will buy into to it but hey who knows..
Just so you know I thought about this and I'm obviously not giving away all my details I'm just looking for someone who likes to do business just like all those crazy useless ideas we see in the MTB world now.. It's just the first day of asking around.. But again thanks for all your imput.. have a good week.

Remember also that it is likely that cars will also have their own transmitter/receivers at some point for passing information between vehicles as to what is up ahead, accidents, road conditions etc. Before going too far you might want to have a nose around to see if there are any standards already being discussed to see if your idea could build on those systems. The cheap, cheap, cheap comment above should never be forgotten.

Edit. There you go [url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11p ]802.11p[/url]

footflaps - Member
Patents are pretty worthless unless you have the financial fire power to defend them in court - which can easily run into £ms. You have to enforce them by suing the company violating it and a high court battle over complex technology with expert witnesses on £k/day and lawyers on several times that, is outside the resources of most SMEs...

In reality most patents don't get enforced in court.

That said beware that many patents are easy to work around so 1. Don't try to draft it yourself 2. Don't assume your patent, if it gets granted (and it often takes four years to find out) will actually stop very similar solutions. 3.,make sure you can detect if someone is breaching it,

In reality most patents don't get enforced in court.

Mainly because the vast majority aren't actually worth anything, let alone the cost of a court case. Most probably aren't even worth the filing fees, but are filed simply because it looks good to have a patent portfolio (to naive investors) . Of the 0.01% that are worth something in terms of royalties, a small percentage do end up having a small fortune spent on legal fees, even if they don't get to court.

As noted elsewhere the bit you have to patent has to be a unique way of solving a problem.

Say your idea is to transmit from one car to another the RAL colour code so others can copy it. The cameras wouldn't be novel. The computer that did the processing, the monitor, none of that would be novel. But the placement of a switch on the steering wheel to activate a system that tells you the colour code it could be. You don't actually need to nail down the technical wizardry to patent it.

But then the problem is that Mercedes will just develop the system and put the button on the floor under the pedals to get around the button on the wheel patent.So you then need umpteen patents covering every variation anyone could think of.

Basically, it's not worth doing. Design it, keep it quiet, get someone in China to make a thousand, sell them and make your money before the competition makes a copy.

In oil and gas, and petrochemicals it's actually unusual to patent ideas because once patented you tell everyone how to do it, so they can then develop on it. If you just keep it to yourself and sell people a product without telling them how it was made then it's much easier to make money form it for longer.

as per the post I am just looking for someone who enjoys developing systems using frequency transmitters and receivers..

What about the pie charts, you'll need those too.

@thisisnotaspoon you are kinda on the money.. its a one off and future car manufacturers will be if such things happens, put this in all new model. but there is something else that Im not revealing of course.. Any way all this Patent info is useful. I wasn't however relying on a patent.. It's maybe a good to do a Patent.. The key is get it made cheap and sell thousand before its knocked off.. but the one thing I'm not saying about will have long life.
With some research and meeting the right people I could work out the ways. I'm just trying to find a little help and share the love.. not really in it for the money as it could benefit the world in a way.. strong words.. I'm not chasing money... I run cheap and excellent service holidays on an expensive island to live because I ove to do good things for all not just for me.. if I can make a buck or two in the mean then excellent... Thanks again all... Ride on!!! ride ard!! and pin it!!!

You have budget for a prototype and legals (£20k min)? If so I can tell you exactly where to get to get it realised from a UK co that can design / build from your idea to prototype stage if feasible, alongside a decent UK/US qualified tech lawyer so you can all play nice. If not you need an investor.

No legit tech investor will sign an NDA to hear an Idea, they will cry rather than laugh if asked (You should also avoid any that will - they are likely armchair investors without the knowledge you need to take your idea forward). Most tech investors look for three T's (Team, Tech, Traction), ability to execute being key in all - without these the idea is useless. Most investors want you to do the hard work and 10x their money. Very few will bother stealing your idea. Even if they do, they do they still have to build the team, be No1 at sales, supply chain, manufacturing, logistics etc etc.........

May be worth visiting something like this: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/innovate-2017-tickets-available-to-uks-biggest-innovation-event
Sounds like you need a co-founder or advisor / mentor to start with, this could be a good place to look. You will also be able to ask the government / InnovateUK in person for funding / likelihood of funding, and/or some advise to get you on the road towards funding on the day.

Good luck!

Trying to engage a Uni, as someone else suggested, is probably your best bet. Or just go on Dragon's Den and pray Peter doesn't rip you a new one (wear a suit and don't value your company at over £1m is a good start... :p ).

Mainly because the vast majority aren't actually worth anything, let alone the cost of a court case. Most probably aren't even worth the filing fees, but are filed simply because it looks good to have a patent portfolio (to naive investors) . Of the 0.01% that are worth something in terms of royalties, a small percentage do end up having a small fortune spent on legal fees, even if they don't get to court.

The issue with not patenting is it sounds like his real opportunity is in the OEM market, and ford, gm, BMW, vag, etc will all happily copy the idea unless your margins are so trivial to them to make it worthwhile - assuming of course that you could even convince them it was a great idea.

There are loads of great ideas, and even more really bad ones, but why would Mr Joe Public about to buy a car want your amazing feature in the vehicle and be keen to pay more for it? Why would BMW want to sell it if it is also available on a ford?

And if it requires a standard - all cars doing it the same way - you are probably stuffed unless you are very heavily connected to the car industry. Even more so if you require a critical mass of users to bring a benefit.

Also thanks for all the guess work... we could make a game of it.. no one has a clue about what I want to do but some radical responses.... best one wins a t-shirt... love to all no matter what.. but I'm not jesus

What exactly is it you are looking for, OP? A developer to create a prototype? How do you plan to pay the developer?

Rachel

Also thanks for all the guess work... we could make a game of it.. no one has a clue about what I want to do but some radical responses.... best one wins a t-shirt... love to all no matter what.. but I'm not jesus

Carefull, you're sounding a bit.......

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.html

There are enough hints for me to think that that its something to prevent cars and other powered vehicles colliding into cyclists, by using RF or similar to broadcast a position or beacon of some kind?

If so, fill your boots. I knocked up a plug-in for Google Maps a while ago as a PoC, which relied on a mobile phone broadcasting its position via the GM API. It worked, but the challenges I had were not limited to:

1)power and the sample rate. Whats right: every 5 seconds? Every 10? Tricky. Always-on drained batteries quickly.

2)Drivers being willing to run GM on their smartphones, presuming they had one, and listening for the beeps.

3)phone signal. Always an issue.

4)Would it work better as a standalone app? Doable, but again, voluntary.

etc. RFID was too short range, analogue methods would have worked...

I wish you luck. Such a thing has great potential.

@codybrennan. That would have been my guess as well and in fact I talked to someone at a meeting a few years ago that was trying to develop something along those lines but just for lorries. The downside as always is persuading cyclists to buy into their half and as always people want cyclists to buy something to protect themselves but give that lots can't even manage batteries for their lights that isn't happening. The best would be a free app for their phone that uses bluetooth and auto starts when they are moving at cycling speeds.

If I were doing that sort of thing then I would be looking at something that fitted into the new car networks as then the chips would be cheap and you stand half a chance of getting agreement amongst vehicle makers

leffeboy - Member
If I were doing that sort of thing then I would be looking at something that fitted into the new car networks as then the chips would be cheap and you stand half a chance of getting agreement amongst vehicle makers

That sounds like just the way to do it, LB, agree 100%. And something voluntary, but cheap and with a good battery life for the bike.

Oh yeah,

Maybe shoulda said my advice comes on the back of being technical, an investor and mentor at multiple accelerators. I've also had co's build, prototype and develop ready to oem stage, working at corporates and startups / bank alongside MNO. Had an MNO invest in one of my co's and succfully claimed R&D funding from government. Just trying to help out a fellow MTBer while I should be sleeping. In all my time I've never seen an original idea successfully stolen despite a few angry people claiming so. Even at a corporate with R&D labs I'd rather just buy a decent startup than try and recruit a whole team from scratch and hope they execute well.

Another challenge with a bike mounted beacon that gives drivers warning of cyclists is simply that humans contain idiot.

Will drivers start to assume that as their CEW (Cyclist Early Warning) isn't pinging that there's no-one around the next bend and they can drive even more like a tit?

Without a CEW, drivers have to be alert.
With a CEW that isn't 100% reliable and isn't on every single bike, drivers have to be alert. Problem is, they'll start to trust the tech over their own senses.

Even at a corporate with R&D labs I'd rather just buy a decent startup than try and recruit a whole team from scratch and hope they execute well.

Very true, all the hard early work will have been done and there's a bunch of passionate, driven people there too.

Plus buying when there is a working product means most of the ideas that are going to fail early have already failed.

It's not to do with cars and bikes.. soz.. but I wont be saying if any gets it right... I love the fact that there are some bright minds here... I was right the mtb community is made of many minds... thanks again all but was only asking for someone who likes to do techy stuff... but I have found a new friend now... some great stuff here.. great game great game... hope to see you on the trails one day.. theres some cool people here!! will be visiting England the next year just to say hi and talk to people about the cycle love.. ride on all!!