[Closed] Anybody use a rowing machine?

I used to train an a Concept 2 and loved it, I could easily knock out 20.000m in a session time being the only restraint.
But they are not for everyone and many people hate them, I guess in the same way as I can't get my head around training on a turbo...

Apart from swimming, the only exercise to use every major muscle group IIRC. Really good workout, but Concept 2 is the benchmark machine.

Used to use one a lot... (30 min+ / day) when I was rowing. Concept II is the only realy option though (unless there is a concept III or simmilar)

Yes they keep you fit but technique is critical - doing it right takes a significant amount of practice and is much easier if you also row in a boat. Doing it wrongly is both in-efficient and a quick way to injure your back. Don't put the resistance up to 10 assuming it is the best thing to do, most rowers would have it on between 4 & 6 unless doing specific training.

I would suggest trying one at a gym before deciding to buy one. If you don't use the turbo as you don't like the pain and suffering you're not going to find it any less painful / suffering on a rower. If you don't use the turbo because of phaff (hooking up the bike etc) then just jumping on the rower is considerably easier.

I use a concept 2 at the gym. I really like rowing, I do intervals racing to 2k or use it to warm up or sometimes just row. My girlfriend doesn't like them, I agree they divide opinion. Once you get a good technique you can get good results, I've seen rambo types turn the dial to 10 and batter away with the cable going everywhere sweating loads but only covering 35 strokes per minute.

It feels like a good workout but it's also pretty horrible. I used one a lot as physio when I broke my hip as I couldn't run, but I really didn't enjoy the experience much. In theory there's a 5 minute fast rowing session in my gym routine but in practice it's the one bit I always look for an excuse to skip 😉

technique is critical

This.

Darcy... do you have any tips on technique please? 🙂

I've seen rambo types turn the dial to 10 and batter away with the cable going everywhere sweating loads but only covering 35 strokes per minute.

That shows your inexperience. You van easily achieve 1:30 500m splits at 30 strokes per minute with proper technique.

Whats a good stroke rate on a concept 2? I use it on 10 at 38 strokes but have not really looked into whats good regardng stroke rate and time over 2000m race distance.

What's your objective Edric64? It seems a bit of a strange question.
The ergo was generally used for perfecting technique and building fitness rather than competing on, although there are dry rowing competitions.
That said I would guess, if my memory serves me well, that steady state rowing would be in the region of 30-35 strokes per minute for a head race and 35-38 for a sprint. But I might be way off.

When I rowed, I found them to be very much a necessary evil, but they will make you strong like bear.

Suggest you look out for a concept 2 as others have pointed out. Like anything exercise-related, take it easy at first. Stick the display up high to keep your head up, resistance no higher than 5 and long, steady and powerful stroke rate rather than frenzied and fruitless.

They're pretty noisy and bulky things so check you've got a suitable space (wipe-clean surfaces essential of course).

Thinking about the noise, has anyone ever used [url= http://www.waterrower.com/ ]a waterrower[/url]? As effective as the Concept? Quieter?

Apart from swimming, the only exercise to use every major muscle group IIRC

Regarding rowing, I find a rowing machine far less inherently boring than a turbo - then again I've done far less in the way of long sessions on an ergo, so maybe it's just down to that.

Every large muscle group will contribute to this action

Rowing machines are one of the few pieces of gym equipment that exercise practically every single muscle group you have

Not just me thinking it then. So - if a rowing machine works shoulders, back, arms, core and legs, what major muscle groups am I missing?

I've been using a Concept2 for a couple of years (started at the gym then bought my own).

Great piece of kit, especially plugging it into a computer with [url= http://www.digitalrowing.com/ ]RowPro[/url] software (a bit clunky, but has good training plans, custom workouts and online racing).

Lots of hints, tips and suggestions at the [url= http://concept2.co.uk/forum/ ]Concept2 UK Forum[/url].

They also make the [url= http://www.concept2.com/ski ]SkiErg[/url].

For what it's worth most of the RowPro training plan sessions involve 20 strokes per minute at 80% max HR to build strength (hard pull, slow recovery). Resistance set at 5.

My wife has made positive comments about the improvements to my physique, so it must be working, right?

if a rowing machine works shoulders, back, arms, core and legs, what major muscle groups am I missing

It works stuff from the core (not the waist) up only a little. 75-80% of a stroke is through the legs. The upper body is all about finessing the stroke.

There are simpler exercises to perform if you want to "work" the upper body. If your arms are hurting and feeling "worked", then you're doing it wrongly.

i want to be strong like bear.

Phil, you are strong in so many beautiful wayz.

"I've seen rambo types turn the dial to 10 and batter away with the cable going everywhere sweating loads but only covering 35 strokes per minute.
That shows your inexperience. You van easily achieve 1:30 500m splits at 30 strokes per minute with proper technique."

I was being sarcastic at the people who hammer away on the machines, sit next to you and assume your interested in a race. Seems like i didn't convey it very well. 🙂

anyone able to link some kinda video or image/visual of the correct technique for using a rowing machine? i used the one at the gym last night for the first time in weeks and i'm concerned that my arm/back pain could be down to technique and not 100% caused by recent/long standing injuries

anyone able to link some kinda video or image/visual of the correct technique for using a rowing machine?

I always got told off for bum shoving. Avoid that and you're probably ok.

You end up with your bum overtaking your shoulders, not generating very much power, and finish with dreadful back ache.

http://www.britishrowing.org/rowing-stroke

Straight back and swing from the hips Philly.

Thinking about the noise, has anyone ever used a waterrower? As effective as the Concept? Quieter?

Re Water Rowers: Shop here in Chester sells ex contract gym equipment. I had a try on a water rower a few weeks ago. It made a sloshing sound on the first few strokes till you had a bit of a rhythm. Apparently they are expensive to maintain compared to Concepts and they are much heavier and can't be stored as easily should you not want the machine out all the time.

If you haven't got the motivation to use the turbo trainer, you will probably struggle with the indoor rower too.

When I used to be a paid up gym member I did use the Concept2 alot (furthest I ever did in one sitting was a marathon distance), it gives an excellent all round work, however you do need the motivation to push yourself on it. On something like a running machine you can set the speed and just hang on until the end. On the C2 you have to give it 100% on every stroke.

Personally I would look at finding some motivation for the turbo trainer. Have you looked at Sufferfest films?

I have a water rower and they have a lovely smooth action and not too noisy. My wife is a physio and has competed rowing at a high level and really rates it. As above its not an easy alternative to a turbo.

I have a water rower and they have a lovely smooth action and not too noisy. My wife is a physio and has competed rowing at a high level and really rates it. As above its not an easy alternative to a turbo.

hmmmmm think i've got pretty good technique then... keeping my back straight and bum never overtakes it. thought i might have been doing it wrong as half the gym users seem to do a dramatic bum-led motion.

i did 2k last night, for i am a machine

What's your 2k time philmachine?

I have a Concept 2 at home which I use about 3 times a week, in the Winter that gets upped to about 5 times a week.

Technique is crucial and the Concept2 UK forum is a very good place to get solid info. I used to be a gym warrior cranking the lever to 10 and going at a spm of 35 and then wondering why I could never get a 10k under 40 minutes.

Rowing is very conducive to bike fitness as the power from the stroke comes from the legs not the arms.

For a good training program I would recommend the pete plan over at c2

Oh sounds like whenever I've used the rowing machine I've been doing it wrong.

In no way am I rambo but I've been cracking that resistance (mistakenly??) up to 10 and grinding it out slow n hard, with a stoke rate of low 20s.

Thinking about it, guess that’s like grinding a big gear up a hill on your bike and therefore probably not the best technique.

Try almost lifting your bum off the seat through the drive.

I think most of the above have it right - Concept 2 is the standard but a bit noisy at home. A water rower is very smooth and quieter but IMO not such a good out-and-out machine.

Get the technique right though is the most important thing - rowing is a pretty counter-intuitive sport as most of the things you feel make you go faster actually don't and often they'll help knacker your back/etc.

If you can be bothered, take a video of your rowing technique side on and compare to the 'how-to' on British rowing or the Concept 2 site as what you think you're doing and what you actually are doing is quite often very different 🙂

Settings-wise, the drag factor (Concept 2) is what matters. Standards are 140 for middle/heavyweights (eg most people) and 135 for lightweights (the snippy skinny guys under 75kg). That usually equates to a setting between 4 and 5 on a concept. Setting 10 can be useful for specific strength training but is pretty bad if your technique isn't good.

As for rating (strokes per min), technique will determine that to a large extent. Lots of gym hardmen will be rating 30-40 but only taking strokes that are effective for about 1 foot. Proper technique will drop your rating to the 20s most likely but you'll go faster as you'll actually effectively move the handle several feet.

Finally, rowing is all about the legs - lower back and to a much lesser extent the arms are used but they're really the glamour bit - they do little more than finish things off.

I can't wait to do my Tabata intervals on the rower this evening now... super excited 🙂

ummm it was 9minutes and about 20 seconds ish... level 6.

nuffink special, but considering i've got two dodgy shoulders recovering from different injuries i was happy i made it past 1k 😀 I was expecting my arms to die after 30seconds.

then i had to wait for some beast of a woman to eventually get off the exercise bike so i could use my legs in a circular motion for the first time in 2 weeks, nearly gave up waiting and went, just as i text a friend telling him i'd be over in 2 minutes she got off leaving a warm damp seat 😐

tune in next week to find out if phil used the exercise bike...

I've heard that a drag factor of 140 on a Concept 2 is the standard setting. You'll need to adjust the lever on the side and try a few test pulls to get there.
Setting it this way ensures all your workouts are done with the same resistance, regardless of which machine you use at the gym or how much dust has accumulated on the fan since the last time you used your own machine.
It also impresses other people at the gym and makes it look like you know what you're doing if you fiddle with the controls and display before starting. 😉

philconsequence - Member
ummm it was 9minutes and about 20 seconds ish... level 6.

At the risk of it sounding like willy waving...

That's a pretty slow score which suggests then that your technique isn't very effective as I'll bet that your fitness is good enough for sub 8 minutes at least. Focus on technique a bit and you'll get much more out of using the rowing machine.

It also impresses other people at the gym and makes it look like you know what you're doing if you fiddle with the controls and display before starting.

IME it just means that the hardmen line up to take their turn next to you to show you just how good they are...

not willy waving at all 🙂

i've probably only done about 30k total on rowing machines in my whole life, so there's bound to be many improvements to be made with regards to technique and ability... as with weight loss, i'd rather do it slowly and maintain the positive changes than end up harming myself.

Thanks for the advice.
2nd hand concept 2's Model D with PM3 seem to be around £700?

I guess the thing that any rower will tell you is that once you have bad technique it's REALLY difficult to correct it - if you can get it right early on (as you are) then it'll pay dividends in the long term

Wally - sounds about right - C2s hold their value stupidly well but then they're very well built and obviously it also means you can sell it on eventually for a decent price.

Don't get a cheap rowing machine - they are really noisy.

Also look on the for sale section of the c2 site for rowers coming up. They are very well built and go forever but you would rather have one thats been in private hands rather then an ex gym one.

Yes you need to set the drag factor rather than adjusting the lever on the side. I row with a df of 125

Re Water Rowers: Shop here in Chester sells ex contract gym equipment

Next to the edge bike shop near bar sixty nine and chick o land.

So - if a rowing machine works shoulders, back, arms, core and legs, what major muscle groups am I missing?

Cheers.

Just to pick a few it doesn't do much for, triceps, pecs and abdominals.

Depends how you define "doesn't do much" - it certainly works them all - but I agree there are other things to do that will have more of an effect if you want to work on those groups...

Having coached rowing for 10 years I'd agree with what's been said about technique above - gym warriors are probably doing a bit of bit of CV work and tiring themselves out - but they're not having any other effect when they batter back and forth rating 30+. I'd suggest you take a look at online resources for technique and focus on keeping your split low rather than your rate high...

7'20" for me. And I'm chubby and short. Imagine trying to get that swing with my Buddha's belly!!

Darcy - so that's averaging 1'50" splits right?

I can do that reasonably enough, but when doing intervals I struggle to move much below 1'35" for the working bit and then recover at 2'... is it likely that my technique is a miss?

1'35" isn't an awful split so you're technique probably isn't awful though obviously it depends how long you're doing 1'35" for.

20 secs on 10 secs off... from set 4 onwards I'm sitting at around 1'40".

I've been setting the machine at around 8-9... should I go lower?

I can remember sitting next to one non-rower on a rowing machine who was practically lying back on the machine and pulling the handle over his head. 😯

This has stirred my interest in getting a rowing machine again... used to love rowing at university but, like everyone else has said, technique is REALLY important.

Concept IIs are very robust - they have to be, when you see the flailing abuse they get at the hands of the muscle marys at the gyms!

Helios sounds like he'll be the best person to talk to about technique, but for starters when you're "pulling" on the handle, imagine you're actually lifting a heavy barbell off the floor, to chest height. You'd start from a squat by extending your legs and keeping your back straight, then straightening up and finally using your arms to pull the bar up to your chest. Then you'd do the opposite to lower the bar to the floor.

Turn that on its side and that's pretty much what you should do when rowing - and you start to understand why it tends to be called a push or a drive rather than a pull. Your big muscles work hard first, your legs, buttocks and back, and your arms are used at the finish. Then arms out, bend forward and then bend the legs once the bar is over your knees.

Also, once you've got the technique a bit right, try and REALLY drive it - a ratio of about 1:4 drive to return (i.e. DRIVE, then spend four times that time returning the bar to the start position) is fairly good, from what I remember, and allows you to get the best efficiency and power from your rowing. Keep the stroke rate low (18-22) and focus on your technique and power. You'll soon see why the gym bunnies rattling up and down are not doing anything useful while they look stupid.

Sorry about the long post. I haven't looked for a long time, but check out the Concept 2 site for much more information about technique and training and prices. Hope this helps.

It always takes me a couple of minutes to stop trying to feather on a concept II 😆

This thread has made me want to row again

TSY - yes, as above, aim for a 140 drag factor (5ish setting usually)

What are you doing the intervals for out of interest?

a ratio of about 1:4 drive to return

More like 1:2.5 to 1:3

or 1:1 flat out 😉

Oh and the 'really drive it' bit is right but tends to get misinterpreted. What you're really looking for is acceleration, not just power - speed is what makes the boat go fast (or the score go lower on the machine) so the key thing is to move quickly when driving. If you're doing it right, you should be able to row with your feet out of the straps up to rating of 26-28 - if you're loading everything in the front of the stroke, you'll lose contact as soon as you stop accelerating.

This thread has made me want to row again

Every time I'm out in the summer I want to go back to rowing again, everytime I'm coaching in September-April I'm thoroughly pleased I get to stay warm, dry and wrapped up in massive waterproofs while the poor guys in the boat get freezing cold and soaking wet...

I used to coach carrying a thermal mug full of coffee, much to the disgust of my crews... Mwahaha...

Second the Concept II website - it has lots of good stuff on technique...

What are you doing the intervals for out of interest?

Fitness (Tabata Intervals) and a feeling of sickness at the end of my session 🙂 How do I know what the drag factor is??

Drag factor: http://www.concept2.com/us/training/advanced/dragfactor.asp

I'd watch those intervals if you're not sure about the technique - could be a good way to get a back injury...

Yeah, I've been doing them for a while... the rowers face a mirror and reading the technique thing on the C2 site I do it all... possibly let my recovery go too close, but easily remedied.

Thanks for that link... never knew about that on the machines.

Hard to really monitor technique looking at a mirror head on though - especially the things that can/will cause injury. I'd suggest getting someone to video you (on your phone - oh and not *that* type of video 😉 ) and then review your technique (rowing!)

Depends how you define "doesn't do much" - it certainly works them all - but I agree there are other things to do that will have more of an effect if you want to work on those groups...

In case anybody thinks I've got a real downer on rowing, I do have some idea what I'm talking about here having had very competitive ergo times many years ago, and I also know somebody who's converted from being a very good rower to one of the best XC skiers in the UK.

and I also know somebody who's converted from being a very good rower to one of the best XC skiers in the UK.

I was in the GB women's squad so I know more than all of you put together.

😆

I used to coach carrying a thermal mug full of coffee

if you're looking for something which utilises muscle groups as a primary part of the work then as I said before it's XC skiing.

Bit hard to do on a machine in the garage!

Bit hard to do on a machine in the garage!

C'mon stop the willy waving. XC skiing is silly hard, as frankly is rowing and probably several other sports. Irrespective they'll all give you a very good workout and unless you're an international athete in the sport of 'I'm fitter than you' then which one you choose doesn't really matter.

No willy waving here - until today I would honestly never have imagined you could do XC skiing in the garage...

That skierg thing is either a) amazing, or b) the terrifying lovechild of an ergo and climbing frame... or c) both...

(the GB team quite often do XC skiing on their winter training camp as it goes)

XC skiing is silly hard, as frankly is rowing and probably several other sports.

tbh, mountain biking is silly hard, from most people's viewpoints - first, you have to ride a bike, then you have to ride it up hills, then sometimes you have to ride while standing up... we often underestimate the fitness required for even basic mountain biking because we enjoy it so much!

That skierg thing is either a) amazing, or b) the terrifying lovechild of an ergo and climbing frame... or c) both...

What's your 2000m PB time then Clubber?

I got down to a 6m42 in a fitness first gym comp 6 or 7 years ago.

The guy who won was in the 6m20s'.

I've always thought of under 7mins as a general good time. Haven't rowed in years but did a 2000m out of the blue the other week and was just over 7mins. I was a bit gutted to be honest as I think I'm fitter now than I was back then!
Think I had lost my technique as my arms were burning after!

This thread has also got me back in the mood to get back on the rower!

MM

I was alright on the erg - unfortunately not fast enough to be as good as I'd have liked.

I'd say that any remotely serious rower should be under 7 mins, a half decent heavyweight 6:20 and below, 6:35ish for a lightweight.

OK I'll wave mine - 6:41 and a lightweight by a good stone at the time. I thought that was actually a very good time for a LW?

I managed 6:57 and i'm on the border of lwt / hwt.

too old and too short to go too much faster