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Re Water Rowers: Shop here in Chester sells ex contract gym equipment
Where abouts is this then?
Next to the edge bike shop near bar sixty nine and chick o land.
So - if a rowing machine works shoulders, back, arms, core and legs, what major muscle groups am I missing?
You do realise that "shoulders, back, arms, core and legs" aren't muscle groups? Just to pick a few it doesn't do much for, triceps, pecs and abdominals.
Cheers.
Just to pick a few it doesn't do much for, triceps, pecs and abdominals.
Depends how you define "doesn't do much" - it certainly works them all - but I agree there are other things to do that will have more of an effect if you want to work on those groups...
Having coached rowing for 10 years I'd agree with what's been said about technique above - gym warriors are probably doing a bit of bit of CV work and tiring themselves out - but they're not having any other effect when they batter back and forth rating 30+. I'd suggest you take a look at online resources for technique and focus on keeping your split low rather than your rate high...
7'20" for me. And I'm chubby and short. Imagine trying to get that swing with my Buddha's belly!!
Darcy - so that's averaging 1'50" splits right?
I can do that reasonably enough, but when doing intervals I struggle to move much below 1'35" for the working bit and then recover at 2'... is it likely that my technique is a miss?
1'35" isn't an awful split so you're technique probably isn't awful though obviously it depends how long you're doing 1'35" for.
20 secs on 10 secs off... from set 4 onwards I'm sitting at around 1'40".
I've been setting the machine at around 8-9... should I go lower?
I can remember sitting next to one non-rower on a rowing machine who was practically lying back on the machine and pulling the handle over his head. 😯
This has stirred my interest in getting a rowing machine again... used to love rowing at university but, like everyone else has said, technique is REALLY important.
Concept IIs are very robust - they have to be, when you see the flailing abuse they get at the hands of the muscle marys at the gyms!
Helios sounds like he'll be the best person to talk to about technique, but for starters when you're "pulling" on the handle, imagine you're actually lifting a heavy barbell off the floor, to chest height. You'd start from a squat by extending your legs and keeping your back straight, then straightening up and finally using your arms to pull the bar up to your chest. Then you'd do the opposite to lower the bar to the floor.
Turn that on its side and that's pretty much what you should do when rowing - and you start to understand why it tends to be called a push or a drive rather than a pull. Your big muscles work hard first, your legs, buttocks and back, and your arms are used at the finish. Then arms out, bend forward and then bend the legs once the bar is over your knees.
Also, once you've got the technique a bit right, try and REALLY drive it - a ratio of about 1:4 drive to return (i.e. DRIVE, then spend four times that time returning the bar to the start position) is fairly good, from what I remember, and allows you to get the best efficiency and power from your rowing. Keep the stroke rate low (18-22) and focus on your technique and power. You'll soon see why the gym bunnies rattling up and down are not doing anything useful while they look stupid.
Sorry about the long post. I haven't looked for a long time, but check out the Concept 2 site for much more information about technique and training and prices. Hope this helps.
It always takes me a couple of minutes to stop trying to feather on a concept II 😆
This thread has made me want to row again
TSY - yes, as above, aim for a 140 drag factor (5ish setting usually)
What are you doing the intervals for out of interest?
a ratio of about 1:4 drive to return
More like 1:2.5 to 1:3
or 1:1 flat out 😉
Oh and the 'really drive it' bit is right but tends to get misinterpreted. What you're really looking for is acceleration, not just power - speed is what makes the boat go fast (or the score go lower on the machine) so the key thing is to move quickly when driving. If you're doing it right, you should be able to row with your feet out of the straps up to rating of 26-28 - if you're loading everything in the front of the stroke, you'll lose contact as soon as you stop accelerating.
This thread has made me want to row again
Every time I'm out in the summer I want to go back to rowing again, everytime I'm coaching in September-April I'm thoroughly pleased I get to stay warm, dry and wrapped up in massive waterproofs while the poor guys in the boat get freezing cold and soaking wet...
I used to coach carrying a thermal mug full of coffee, much to the disgust of my crews... Mwahaha...
Second the Concept II website - it has lots of good stuff on technique...
What are you doing the intervals for out of interest?
Fitness (Tabata Intervals) and a feeling of sickness at the end of my session 🙂 How do I know what the drag factor is??
Drag factor: http://www.concept2.com/us/training/advanced/dragfactor.asp
I'd watch those intervals if you're not sure about the technique - could be a good way to get a back injury...
Yeah, I've been doing them for a while... the rowers face a mirror and reading the technique thing on the C2 site I do it all... possibly let my recovery go too close, but easily remedied.
Thanks for that link... never knew about that on the machines.
Hard to really monitor technique looking at a mirror head on though - especially the things that can/will cause injury. I'd suggest getting someone to video you (on your phone - oh and not *that* type of video 😉 ) and then review your technique (rowing!)
Depends how you define "doesn't do much" - it certainly works them all - but I agree there are other things to do that will have more of an effect if you want to work on those groups...
Well cycling probably does more for all of those groups - none of them are involved in the main drive part of the action, which is what I'd assume somebody means when they suggest "the only exercise to use every major muscle group". On that basis, running uses pretty much all the major muscle groups, just not in a very significant way - if you're looking for something which utilises muscle groups as a primary part of the work then as I said before it's XC skiing.
In case anybody thinks I've got a real downer on rowing, I do have some idea what I'm talking about here having had very competitive ergo times many years ago, and I also know somebody who's converted from being a very good rower to one of the best XC skiers in the UK.
and I also know somebody who's converted from being a very good rower to one of the best XC skiers in the UK.
But I knew someone from the women's GB squad, so I think I might be more qualified to talk about rowing than you. 😉
I was in the GB women's squad so I know more than all of you put together.
😆
👿I used to coach carrying a thermal mug full of coffee
if you're looking for something which utilises muscle groups as a primary part of the work then as I said before it's XC skiing.
Bit hard to do on a machine in the garage!
C'mon stop the willy waving. XC skiing is silly hard, as frankly is rowing and probably several other sports. Irrespective they'll all give you a very good workout and unless you're an international athete in the sport of 'I'm fitter than you' then which one you choose doesn't really matter.
No willy waving here - until today I would honestly never have imagined you could do XC skiing in the garage...
That skierg thing is either a) amazing, or b) the terrifying lovechild of an ergo and climbing frame... or c) both...
(the GB team quite often do XC skiing on their winter training camp as it goes)
XC skiing is silly hard, as frankly is rowing and probably several other sports.
tbh, mountain biking is silly hard, from most people's viewpoints - first, you have to ride a bike, then you have to ride it up hills, then sometimes you have to ride while standing up... we often underestimate the fitness required for even basic mountain biking because we enjoy it so much!
That skierg thing is either a) amazing, or b) the terrifying lovechild of an ergo and climbing frame... or c) both...
I've had a go on one, and personally I have to say I'd rather go on a rowing machine - just didn't do it for me (then again I'd rather go roller-skiing than do either). I guess it's kind of like poling only XC skiing, which whilst it is much more of an all body workout than people think isn't something I desperately enjoy either (though I suppose I should really do a lot more training at it, given it's a very big part of ski-orienteering - a very niche sport, but something I can probably get into the GB team for - which isn't really willy waving at all!)
What's your 2000m PB time then Clubber?
I got down to a 6m42 in a fitness first gym comp 6 or 7 years ago.
The guy who won was in the 6m20s'.
I've always thought of under 7mins as a general good time. Haven't rowed in years but did a 2000m out of the blue the other week and was just over 7mins. I was a bit gutted to be honest as I think I'm fitter now than I was back then!
Think I had lost my technique as my arms were burning after!
This thread has also got me back in the mood to get back on the rower!
MM
I was alright on the erg - unfortunately not fast enough to be as good as I'd have liked.
I'd say that any remotely serious rower should be under 7 mins, a half decent heavyweight 6:20 and below, 6:35ish for a lightweight.
OK I'll wave mine - 6:41 and a lightweight by a good stone at the time. I thought that was actually a very good time for a LW?
I managed 6:57 and i'm on the border of lwt / hwt.
too old and too short to go too much faster
I never quite broke 6:30. I think I got down to 6:31 at one of the Indoor Championships. I needed to loose about 5kg to make myself a light weight, but was never that dedicated! I was generally better at the 5k or 10k distnaces, but maybe that was because less people did them?
I haven't been on a Concept2 for 3 or 4 years, but would hope I could knock out a sub 7:00 2k if I had a go now.
I thought that was actually a very good time for a LW?
A good national level lwt kind of score. 6:35 was the minimum to be allowed to do the GB trials IIRC.
6:35 was the minimum to be allowed to do the GB trials IIRC.
😯 - could definitely have got down to that - though then I'd have had to be able to row a real boat I suppose.
Indeed... it's one thing hitting the scores on an erg, another to do it in the boat.
And it's maybe worth pointing out that if you were scraping in at 6:35 you'd be expected to be a weight gimp - eg you bring the crew average down to allow for the 'big' lwts pulling decent scores.
Would 10.5 stones (what I was at the time) be enough of a weight gimp?
Reasonable - certainly in the right sort of area - nearer 10 would be better still (and what the really good weight gimps were at)
Can be a bit boring but will get you in shape if you train 4 times a week.
I only use it for the VO2 max calculation, 'cos it hurts. So about every 2 months.
http://www.concept2.com/us/interactive/calculators/vo2max.asp
That's at a drag factor of 140, about lever setting 5 for me though obviously it depends on altitude and even weather on the day.
How do you row 2k in 6.30?! 8.05 (62kg) has been my best time, and that literally finished with me toppling sideways into my own pool of sweat.
How do you row 2k in 6.30?!
Decent technique is the simple answer...