any (TUI) flight/holiday refund experts & experiences about??

am i being fobbed off and expected to just accept it or is this genuinely the case i can’t claim anything back?

I'm not sure it's either of those. You're not going to be entitled to standard/automatic compensation certainly - non boarding is your fault essentially - however I wouldn't expect that to mean you're not entitled to anything either.

Contact them in writing, then if no luck, contact abta/atol.

My suspicion is you'll eventually be refunded in full for your original flight but may find you're out of pocket for the difference between that and the alternative you took but had you taken the Gatwick route you'd have been fully refunded plus compensation.

One of the bigger issues with the changes to air travel compensation making it mandatory is its now very much "computer says no" when it falls out of the standard terms.

@dangeourbrain

many thanks for reply - yes some logic to it - i dont expect compensation for our seperate flight home as we chose it (legally are allowed to do so on ABTA q&a) what i thought was id get some or most of the money back to cover those separate flights like you suggest, however when i spoke to them they said we could literally claim nothing back at all.

i don't know how the refund for the return flight is formed money wise as it was a package holiday, but if i read tui correctly any flight over 6hrs delay is eligible for £520 per person, so surely as our replacement 14hr gatwick flight was way over this even though we didnt take it, this in my head is what i think we're entitled to claim on?

is that what your thinking also?

Try holiday insurance.

A friend's flight to Iceland was cancelled as they were half way to the airport. Was only a short three day trip, but no replacement flight offered, so they turned round and went home - no point trying to re-arrange for such a short stay. Now the mess of travel insurance/flight compensation.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/holiday-cancellations-and-compensation/if-your-flights-delayed-or-cancelled/

read this - looks like you are entitled to

If your flight’s delayed for 5 hours or more
You don’t have to take the flight if it’s delayed for 5 hours or more.

If you don’t take the flight
The airline legally has to give you all of the following:

a full refund for the flight
a full refund for other flights from the airline that you won’t use in the same booking, eg an onward or return flight
if you’re part-way through a journey, a flight back to the airport you originally departed from
You should get the refund within 7 days of the date of the flight.

Talk to someone from the airline as soon as you decide you don’t want to take the flight.

assuming flight was UK<>EU

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/holiday-cancellations-and-compensation/if-your-flights-delayed-or-cancelled/

Probably comes down to wording, but it sounds like your flight was cancelled.

brilliant thank you folks - gives me a little optimism! i hadnt seen the CAB stuff only on ABTA - but they both confirm that even if we got a separate flight home we should still be entitled to a refund for the return leg that never happened for us, or at least with it being over 14 hrs delay should be, i guess the ambiguity is whether they have to refund cos we chose not to take there alternative flight, but CAB & ABTA suggest we didnt have to

EDIT : @julians - it was Turkey > UK

i guess the ambiguity is whether they have to refund cos we chose not to take there alternative flight

It was either cancelled or it was delayed -  either way, depending on distance, that's anywhere between £260 and £520 per person.

Edit, that's greater than 1,500 km so it will be £350 each

And they would have had to pay that even if you'd taken their replacement flight.

Turkey not officially part of EU though?

Turkey not officially part of EU though?

Doesn't matter

You might be able to get compensation if your flight was:

leaving from the UK – it doesn’t matter which airline it was with
leaving from the EU, Iceland, Norway or Switzerland - it doesn't matter which airline it was with
arriving in the UK and was with a UK or EU airline
arriving in the EU and was with a UK airline

its not part of EU but tui was the flight operator which from i can tell because its a uk based company flying into the uk its still covered in the same way, thats the way ive sort of read it

im kinda a bit more optimistic that we should get the delayed/cancelled return leg flight home now, more so than when i spoke to the unhelpful person yesterday

EDIT : oldtennisshoes - thats what i read it as, phew!

the computer says no thing is funny though and something i thought of

as technically if you input the flight details, it was just delayed a few hours, it still landed, but it didnt land with rows 1-5 so if the computer reads it as being a normal flight just delayed 2 hours then its automatically going to reject it, no idea whether a human gets involved to look at the seating and what went wrong as to why we are claiming, but i doubt its very clear and likely a straight rejectiong citing the plane took off and landed!

as technically if you input the flight details, it was just delayed a few hours, it still landed, but it didnt land with rows 1-5 so if the computer reads it as being a normal flight just delayed 2 hours then its automatically going to reject it

Overbooking though, which is also covered - and has basically the same rules of must offer a replacement flight to the same place.

The bigger thing is that airline groups like IAG (BA, Lingus etc) and others have realised that if they say no, a large proportion of people won't chase them for it. So they may make you jump through multiple hoops before finally conceding it.
Aer Lingus are doing that to me - cancelled a flight while we waited to take off, then offered a replacement flight to Birmingham which didn't suit me. So I cancelled the trip, and they've since said twice that they don't owe me a refund as the ticket was 'utilised', without ever explaining what they think utilised means...

Not read the other links, but you're probably entitled to 'Denied Boarding Compensation' which is in addition to a refund or other offer from the airline.

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/denied-boarding/

Complained about a TUI (if I remember correctly) holiday years ago. County Council Consumer Protection Dept gave free advice

TUI refused to pay up, until we were on the virtual steps of the small claims court...

The bigger thing is that airline groups like IAG (BA, Lingus etc) and others have realised that if they say no, a large proportion of people won’t chase them for it. So they may make you jump through multiple hoops before finally conceding it.

A mate in the industry told me something slightly different. It’s for the same reason that at check-in the person that you’re dealing with always looks confused. It’s because most of the major airlines outsource just about everything administrative, because it’s cheaper to do so. So you end up with a worse service where no one really knows what they’re doing.

They will do everything they can to avoid paying out, but I think you’re due all of the compensation you mention for the missed flights.

We had a similar issue coming back from our holiday this year and also delayed 14hrs, but did get on the flight to get back to the correct airport. We were promised that we’d be sent a link for compensation claims - yeah right!

We tried the usual links to claim compensation, but failed as the replacement flight was a different day and flight number, so computer said no. Eventually we emailed the following and we did get it all sorted so these may be useful:

directorsescalationteam@tui.co.uk

compliance@tui.com

customer.legal@tui.co.uk
serviceuk@tui.com

You are, in my understanding, entitled to a payment for your costs (alternate flight +hotel or taxi or extra parking etc) plus the distance - related refund, the amount of which may depend on how late you landed on the flight you did take, but is likely to be the max for the flight length you took.

They will lie and claim you're not allowed it, just go through the steps to escalate it to their remediation service who will find in your favour.

I had to put up with 6 month of complete lies from wizz when they messed us up, on the other hand Lufthansa and ba were great

Airlines will 100% just reject your claim assuming you won't do anything to chase, and they've saved £500 each. Had this from BA, Wizz Air and now having it from American Airlines. BA and Wizz defeated me. I am not going to let American Airlines win.

Thanks guys for all the info I was starting to think I should just let it go and I’d paid the price for sorting out our own return jnstead

theyve Rang me again tonight, totally refused even the return flight refund and said if I put the refund claim in on the site it will get rejected also

so what’s the next step to escalate it please folks?

the principal of this is more important to me than the money tbh

it’s good that some of you have experienced the same fobbing off and refusals at least ( not good for you at time of course) and at least got sorted after through persistence

I will never use tui ever again even if it means no holidays ever so angry and ruined what was a perfect holiday which we needed desperately then totally lost all the relaxation we gained coming back to that nightmare and then dealing with this after… genuinely wish we had t gone now which is so disappointing to say out loud

Just stick with it.  I was on an overbooked Ryanair flight last year, at boarding they offered the lady in front 100 quid to get a later flight, she took it.  I d have taken it as I only paid 25 quid for the flight and could have got a later train at uk end.  It was only 6 hours later.

Cheapskate tui, even Ryanair offered 100 quid.

I don’t know where to stick with it though next? After sales don’t want know, delays sept don’t want know, I email and ring them but they just say I’m not eligible for anything

I’ll perhaps try those tui emails above with a real long email see if that gets anywhere

it’s absolutely disgusting no other industry gets away with crap like this but for some reason appalling service in aviation is almost accepted as the norm?! It’s bizarre

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/#:~:text=We%20would%20like%20to%20hear%20from%20you&text=If%20you%20have%20already%20made,may%20be%20able%20to%20help.

Caa first then small claims court

As said as a flight on a UK airline into the UK you are covered by UK261 legislation (i.e. the implementation of EU261 following brexit).

There are 2 elements - refund of expenses (i.e. your new flight you paid for) and compensation (if you arrived in Manchester significantly later, i think for that distance more than 3 hours late). Treat each of these as separate.

You were involuntarily denied boarding on your booked flight. You have the right to choose between reimbursement, rerouting or rebooking later. It is very important in the legislation, when you were offered the rerouting that you deemed was not reasonable, you did not accept it. It is worth adding that you were verbally told you would be reimbursed if you could find a routing that was reasonable.  The wording in the legislation is "re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity" and that's what you are claiming the flight cost for. Compensation is a separate claim, which depends on the reason for the plane swap and the length of delay to Manchester Airport.

As said above you should now send a formal letter before action requesting the final decision from TUI before you take legal action. You can use money claim online (mcol) = small claims court where you pay a small fee upfront and claim it back. Unfortunately TUI don't use the mediation service CEDR who can be a good alternative, but ABTA have an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme which could be worth looking at.

<p style="text-align: left;">Though BA specific, this thread gives lots of info, in particular read post 7 on 'letter before action'</p>
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/2106171-2023-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-uk261.html

You need to get the refusal in writing before you can take it further.

I don’t know where to stick with it though next?

Checked, mine was TUI/Thomsons about 15 years ago. I sent a formal recorded delivery letter (as suggested^^) to someone important, Company Secretary, maybe??

The letter and person to send it to was all dictated by County Council Consumer Protection Dept, but CAB or the other suggestions ^^ should give similar advice. They rejected my claim so my next step was small claims, easy online process, no legal fees, etc

They waited until the day of the hearing before paying up. No arbitration, ombudsman, other organisations, etc involved in my case

5labFull Member
You need to get the refusal in writing before you can take it further.

thanks - do you mean tui's refusal for the refund in writing?

konagirlFree Member
As said as a flight on a UK airline into the UK you are covered by UK261 legislation (i.e. the implementation of EU261 following brexit).

There are 2 elements – refund of expenses (i.e. your new flight you paid for) and compensation (if you arrived in Manchester significantly later, i think for that distance more than 3 hours late). Treat each of these as separate.

You were involuntarily denied boarding on your booked flight. You have the right to choose between reimbursement, rerouting or rebooking later. It is very important in the legislation, when you were offered the rerouting that you deemed was not reasonable, you did not accept it. It is worth adding that you were verbally told you would be reimbursed if you could find a routing that was reasonable.  The wording in the legislation is “re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity” and that’s what you are claiming the flight cost for. Compensation is a separate claim, which depends on the reason for the plane swap and the length of delay to Manchester Airport.

As said above you should now send a formal letter before action requesting the final decision from TUI before you take legal action. You can use money claim online (mcol) = small claims court where you pay a small fee upfront and claim it back. Unfortunately TUI don’t use the mediation service CEDR who can be a good alternative, but ABTA have an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme which could be worth looking at.

Excellent info thanks so much for the detailed response! ill show this my wife as she'll be much more methodical writing it all out than me blabbling on....

I'd asked them to put the refusal (detailing the reasons) in writing and take it from there.
We came back from Rhodes to Manchester on Saturday night, also had an email a couple of days before saying we had a later flight, they knew exactly what they were doing as we took off 2h54mins after our scheduled departure.
replacement plane was a total donkey, I've never been so uncomfortable in a plane seat in my life.

lesson here it to not use Tui

Because the OP has such detail and it is such a deliciously entertaining (not to the OP, clearly) case with clear injustice and breaking of rules I think The Guardian's Consumer champions team would lap this up.

haha i did think about going BIG with it, im tempted tbh, but its one more hassle i dont need at the moment

i have sent a email to the various emails kindly put up above, only 1 has bounced back so fingers crossed one of them gets somewhere 'bigger'

i have explained in full detail and have requested a letter in writing for the reason of refusal

defo not giving in on it! thanks so much for the info genuinely thought id just have to suck it up but 100% thanks to this thread its clear i dont, and am 100% entitled to something....

mrchrispyFull Member
I’d asked them to put the refusal (detailing the reasons) in writing and take it from there.
We came back from Rhodes to Manchester on Saturday night, also had an email a couple of days before saying we had a later flight, they knew exactly what they were doing as we took off 2h54mins after our scheduled departure.
replacement plane was a total donkey, I’ve never been so uncomfortable in a plane seat in my life.

lesson here it to not use Tui

we had exactly the same coming back from ibiza in may - landed 2hr 56minutes, meaning ineligible to claim the 3 hour mark. they know exactly what they are doing and it truly is disgusting, cant even blame natural problems like weather. i honestly dont know how the industry keeps getting away with it.

sadly thats 2 flight ruined this year (bad luck or just awful incompetency?), this last one being far far far far worse than anything ive ever experienced, hands down the worst experience of my life in terms of being a customer

i will struggle to fly ever again after this (nervous flyer) and certainly never will use tui again

@julians

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/#:~:text=We%20would%20like%20to%20hear%20from%20you&text=If%20you%20have%20already%20made,may%20be%20able%20to%20help

am i being dim/blind but i cant see where you actually submit a case to them? it just outlines the procedure?

Ah, go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on

"We welcome letters but cannot answer individually. Email us at consumer.champions@theguardian.com or write to Consumer Champions, Money, the Guardian, 90 York Way, London N1 9GU. Please include a daytime phone number."

looks like i cant complain to CAA and have there help, assume i need to send a formal letter to the below?

Thank you for your complaint, from which I was sorry to hear of the issues you had with Tui Airways (formally Thomson).

Tui Airways (formally Thomson) has signed up to an independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) provider which has been approved by the CAA.

Since the introduction of ADR in the aviation sector we no longer accept complaints about, or indeed any airline where an option to use ADR exists. ADR providers are better placed to handle complaints since the airline have agreed to be bound by the ADR provider’s decision. Unfortunately, the CAA has no legal powers to impose a solution on an airline.
If you wish to pursue your claim you should contact the Consumer Dispute Resolution Ltd at:

Consumer Dispute Resolution Ltd
12-14 Walker avenue
Stratford office village, Wolverton mill
Milton Keynes
England
MK12 5TW

edit they do have a online form to fill in found it!

BigJohnFull Member
Ah, go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on

“We welcome letters but cannot answer individually. Email us at consumer.champions@theguardian.com or write to Consumer Champions, Money, the Guardian, 90 York Way, London N1 9GU. Please include a daytime phone number.”

haha i might just do it, see what happens

so to follow up phase 1 - filled in the delay compensation page on tui's site the other day = rejection, automatic email saying it is

'Unfortunately, we are unable to process your claim currently, this is in reference to flight ******* on **/08/2023 between DLM and MAN.

This may have occurred for several reasons; please ensure you have checked the following information:'

so thats officially all avenues of compensation/delay done for through them now, ive requested a written letter explaining why but no repsonse so far.....hopefully the abta and other form ive filled in get me somewhere 🙁

so that's officially all avenues of compensation/delay done for through them now, ive requested a written letter explaining why but no response so far

I'd be surprised if they send you a letter, but your e-mail constitutes a written response, (even if it is automated). If you talk to someone again about this, check the call is being recorded, and be sure to use the phrase, 'so let me be clear here, you are refusing to honour my statutory rights?' I read that on here once, and I can't wait to use it one day!

TUI is a member of the aviation ADR - who are an independent body set up to find between an airline and a customer when things go wrong. its a step that is much easier to do than going to court. The next step is to kick them into action

https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/how-to-complain-about-a-tui-flight/

it seems you need a deadlock letter, which may be what you have. The ADR take none of your money (the airline pays them), and found in my favour when wizz were being wizz. its a slow burn, but minimal effort on my side

thanks guys - great info as always

so just done the ADR one for tui (CAA dont do tui as you say and its done via ADR) so form filled in, details as much as i could, copies of there final email results etc, assuming no letter will get sent

see what happens i will of course report back if i get anywhere or just give up ha

thank you all