Any Primary teacher...
 

MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch

[Closed] Any Primary teachers?

77 Posts
30 Users
0 Reactions
392 Views
Posts: 5209
Full Member
Topic starter
 

I'm toying with the idea of a career change. I don't hate my current job, but I definitely don't love it either; I very much work my hours then come home and forget about it. Which has its plus points, but I have a nagging desire to do something a bit more worthwhile. The pay is nothing to write home about.

So I'm thinking about Primary teaching. It's something I've always liked the idea of but never made happen.

Anyone out there work in Primary and able to share any thoughts? I know a fair few teachers but they're pretty much all Secondary.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 6:53 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

All of the primary teachers I know, are now ex primary teachers, 2 left the profession after their first year.

I’ve seen it burn both my sister and brother in law out. I’m sure it’s very rewarding and these people may not have been right for it, but they seem to work every hour available (including weekends and holidays) either marking or lesson planning, and all of them complain of society viewing them as social workers/parents to others kids, rather than education providers.

If you like going home after work is done and not giving it another thought, then it may not be ideal.

That said, I bet there will be loads of positive responses as well, I can imagine for the right person it would be the most amazing career.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:00 am
Posts: 8527
Free Member
 

8 weeks off in the summer.

#inbeforetheteachers 🙂


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:05 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

Where do you live? Very different in Scotland and England.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:06 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

Only 6 or sometimes 7 weeks for most of us in Scotland at least nobeer.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:08 am
Posts: 13192
Free Member
 

Plus one week at half terms, 2 at Easter and 2 weeks at Christmas. Plus you finish at back of 3 😄
(only mildly trolling) plus you develop a condescending attitude that spills over into your normal life.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:11 am
Posts: 3000
Full Member
 

I work with different primary schools every week and meet a lot of teachers.
Ten years ago and before they generally all loved their jobs and were happy to suggest teaching to other people, me included and I came close to training a couple of times but I saw reason!
Now, while most have no plans to pack teaching in, there is a general sense of disillusionment with the profession and the idiots who are the ultimate leaders.
Work most weekends, in early, home late. Parents who don’t parent anymore. A system that is happy to pile on more extra work without extra pay.
It’s a tough job these days and don’t believe those who might suggest otherwise.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:12 am
Posts: 8527
Free Member
 

Sorry Spin, 7.5 weeks (here anyway!) in summer, 2 at easter, 2 at christmas, 10 days in october, easter weekend... and so on...

🙂


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:14 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

Sensing much jealousy...


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:15 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

All of the primary teachers I know, are now ex primary teachers

Pretty much this.

MrsG was a primary teacher for 15 years and stopped last year, now does a job she can leave at the door of the office at 5pm and not take home. And she loves it.

2 neighbours both primary teachers. One leaving at the end of summer and one seriously considering the same (both under 5 years in the job)
Hard to leave once you have climbed the pay scale too as comparable jobs are less well paid.

It not an easy job and people burn out quick it seems. The workload outside of school and on weekends is ridiculous (if you want to be even slightly “good” at it.)


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:18 am
Posts: 8527
Free Member
 

No really mate, just mildly trolling!

It's definitely a bit of a vocation more than a job, my daughter isn't long finished at primary school, her teachers were all really good (and 6 out of the 7 were bloody braw as well!) but I definitely got the feeling that it's a young persons game now, they were all under 40.

All my primary teachers were over 50. They all seem to be fairly ambitious now, either that or desperate to get away from the wee bastards! 🙂


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:20 am
Posts: 2434
Free Member
 

The wife is a primary teacher. Obviously there are some positives, decent pension, pay is ok (about £30k) and holidays.
The downside is the amount of hours. She goes in for 0745 gets home at 1700. When our children go to bed at 9pm she will then do another 2 hours work every night. Every Sunday she also does at least 4 hours. As it’s report writing time at the moment, she will also have to work all weekend. During the working day she doesn’t really get any breaks, there is always something happening, so lunch is normally a working lunch.
The other downside is you have to deal with parents, she has twice been physically threatened by parents (one dad and one mum). The dad who threatened her then went and made a complaint, even with CCTV showing how he was using his size to intimidate and shout at her the school tried to make my wife apologise. Generally you are always in the wrong and the parents are correct.
She loves it, but it’s not a profession where you can expect to just do a 9 to 5 and forget about work until the next day.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:23 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

Primary is a different gig from secondary in ways you might not think at first. The primary teachers I know seem to be under much more pressure to evidence their planning and preparation rather than just doing it, submitting lesson plans in advance and such like.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:25 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

The dad who threatened her then went and made a complaint, even with CCTV showing how he was using his size to intimidate and shout at her the school tried to make my wife apologise. Generally you are always in the wrong and the parents are correct.

Wow.. Your wife needs to move to a better/more supportive school 😳
They are certainly not all like that!


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:30 am
Posts: 13406
Full Member
 

My wife is in the process of leaving after 10 years. The good bits are truly wonderful but they’re more than outweighed by the negatives in her eyes.
The hours are really long if you include the planning, marking and report writing at night and during holidays. She’s got high standard won’t compromise on these which meant she is/was a brilliant teacher but that takes time to do every day.
She wouldn’t suggest it to her worst enemy, it’s broken her mentally on more than one occasion and the journey back to well being has been long and her.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:32 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Hope to start Primary training in Sept. At 47. With 3 small kids. 🤔 Most seem to think I’m mad, but then I talk to teachers who are on the whole encouraging. Got my maths test today in fact. I’d suggest trying to have a few days observation to see what it’s all about.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:45 am
Posts: 3000
Full Member
 

Jesus, it’s not nice to hear these stories, even though they don’t surprise me.
What the **** have we done wrong to get to the point where a job that should be so joyful is so terrible?
I get to take primary school kids on outdoor activities every day and 99% of them are happy with an appetite for fun and learning.
It scares me that our primary school teachers, setting kids up for the future, are so browbeaten by the system.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:49 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Mrs M used to teach at primary, she loved the job BUT the horrendous workload got too much, 60-70 hour weeks, massive amounts of planning and evidence collection as well as reports.  Oh and don’t get me started on OFSTED Nazi’s.  Change of Head was the final nail in the coffin.  Mrs M had 3 kids with behaviour issues so had to run a tight ship but new head decided that if kids kicked off you had to ask them “if that was the outcome of their actions they wanted?”  Bear in mind kids were 5-6.

I’m glad she's left as I have my wife back, yes it was a hit to the wages but I don’t have a stressed wife anymore.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:06 am
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

Sorry Spin, 7.5 weeks (here anyway!)

Where us this, I will move.

I teach secondary. Primary looks a lot tougher from a workload perspective. I get to work at 7.30ish and finish mostly by 4.30. Rarely do more than a couple of hours at home at the weekend. When I pick my son up from after school club at 50-5.30ish most of his teachers are still working. Son had to have written feedback in his books before he could read, I was flabbergasted at the waste of a teachers time.

Havent had an above inflation pay rise in about 10 years either.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:08 am
Posts: 5209
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Cheers all, that's given me a bit of perspective. I used to work in a primary school in a support role about 20 years ago, it seems like things have changed a lot for the worse since then. Might be time to go back to the drawing board...


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:19 am
Posts: 8527
Free Member
 

Where us this, I will move.

South Ayrshire, 28th June to 20th August, Though teachers have inservice days 16th and 19th August - you get to bring your games on those days eh? 🙂


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:22 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

Get into a school and see what you think first hand then make a decision.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:26 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

massive amounts of planning and evidence collection as well as reports.

One of the biggest mistakes we've made in education in the last 10 years is to conflate the measurable and the valuable. I think most people acknowledge that they're not the same thing but we're still ploughing on as if they were. It's depressing and fundamentally dehumanising for everyone involved.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:29 am
Posts: 5209
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Get into a school and see what you think first hand then make a decision.

That was pretty much my plan, but I figured tales of experience couldn't do any harm 🙂


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:40 am
Posts: 7128
Free Member
 

The big change in teaching came under Woodhead and then exacerbated by Gove and academies, managerialism, numerical 'accountability', micro-management and excessive hours and falling pay. The contempt for teachers shown by these two plus politicians filters through to parents and kids. Add to that the toxicity of increasing poverty (among teachers too) and it makes it a tough job.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:57 am
Posts: 2635
Full Member
 

She goes in for 0745 gets home at 1700. When our children go to bed at 9pm she will then do another 2 hours work every night. Every Sunday she also does at least 4 hours

Is that it! my wife leaves the house at 0630 and doesnt get home till 1830ish, her travel time is circa 30mins each way, but that's a long day and she isn't paid for all the hours she is in school. She will then get home and most evenings have more to do and then usually 6 hours on a weekend.

Although the wage is good £30k-ish, I think for the hours she works she could earn the same sat on a till someewhere or stacking shelves, luckily she has a half good SLT at her current school so it doesnt drain on her too much, but it the school she was at before this a SLT change was less positive and more of a life/career ruin-er...


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:00 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Every primary school teacher and head-teacher I know (and I know quite a few) has suffered mental health issues as a result of their job.

If you're young and you don't mind about work/life balance you may enjoy it for a few years but, even in the best schools be prepared to work under constant pressure with minimum support.

One thing worth doing - keep an eye on your local authority job site where they advertise teaching vacancies. The frequency of job adverts for a particular school will give you some idea of how bad it is to work there!


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:05 am
 poly
Posts: 8748
Free Member
 

Don’t be too put off by the naysayers, you can take almost any profession and find that there are plenty of people in the job who tell you it’s the worst place ever and used to be better: police, firefighters, paramedics, doctors, lawyers, social workers, graphic designers, software engineers...

Take a room full of people working in one place for a dozen years, and you have a bunch of jaded views and frustrated people who are being pushed by managers to do shit they don’t like.

Jesus, it’s not nice to hear these stories, even though they don’t surprise me.
What the **** have we done wrong to get to the point where a job that should be so joyful is so terrible?
I get to take primary school kids on outdoor activities every day and 99% of them are happy with an appetite for fun and learning.
It scares me that our primary school teachers, setting kids up for the future, are so browbeaten by the system.

I think there may be a few things that amplify the culture of negativity in teaching. 1. A lot of teachers have never worked elsewhere; they have essentially only ever been in an educational institution and may not really have great perspective. 2. The only adults they speak to day in day out are other teachers - you get a massive echo chamber effect. Staff rooms are some of the least moral boosting places on the planet! 3. A chase for career, getting away from the classroom and/or more money means that you have promoted teachers who are not necessarily great managers.

But anyone who has worked elsewhere will have experienced some degree of all those things and being a fresh perspective - I’m told that once you make it through two years life starts to become a little easier and you get a bit of a rhythm to it and can reuse previous materials etc. Obviously the school makes a big difference too.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:10 am
Posts: 44166
Full Member
 

I know two ex primary teachers. Both retired early. One with mental health issues. I know one still in the job. Stress is hurting her.

Want to do a good job it will break you.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:16 am
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

I’m told that once you make it through two years life starts to become a little easier

So by inference you have less than 2 years teaching experience but already know more than those with much more.

Most teachers I know have done other things too. I know relatively few who have gone straight from school to uni to teaching for example.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:22 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I’m told that once you make it through two years life starts to become a little easier and you get a bit of a rhythm to it and can reuse previous materials etc.

Hmmm... I think what tends to happen in most primary schools (IME) is that you only teach one year group for a year or so and are then moved on. By the time you get back to that year, any materials you saved will be well out of date.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:27 am
Posts: 7337
Free Member
 

I think there may be a few things that amplify the culture of negativity in teaching. 1. A lot of teachers have never worked elsewhere; they have essentially only ever been in an educational institution and may not really have great perspective. 2. The only adults they speak to day in day out are other teachers – you get a massive echo chamber effect. Staff rooms are some of the least moral boosting places on the planet! 3. A chase for career, getting away from the classroom and/or more money means that you have promoted teachers who are not necessarily great managers.

@poly, are you or have you worked as a teacher? Just wondering as I am married to a primary teacher and a good percentage of my friends are teachers.

1. Some merit although I do know a few secondary teachers who had careers in engineering amongst others who took the PGCE and switched to teaching to gain a more fulfilling career. Most switched back.
2. Bollocks.
3. Some truth here. I have seen teachers, good teachers, promoted into senior management. Coming from a teaching background they generally have a good vision of how the school should run and improve. Unfortunately successive governments (of both flavours) have ****ed around and ****ed around with teaching and the responsibilities of head teachers and their deputies without the necessary training that many do struggle. Sadly due to the continued cutting of funding and lack of resources I don't see it getting better.

In short, having seen what being a teacher does to people and the amount of friends diagnosed with mental health issues I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Don't get me wrong, it's not entirely negative, there are a lot of positives and many rewarding results along the way but it can come with a price.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:30 am
Posts: 13406
Full Member
 

I’m told that once you make it through two years life starts to become a little easier and you get a bit of a rhythm to it and can reuse previous materials etc.

Nah, you learn to cope and hang on, nothing more. And you can only hold that for so long before it gets to much. Then you collapse into mental health problems, or you quit. Or in my wife's case, both. Yay.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:32 am
Posts: 7128
Free Member
 

It's not as simple as people moaning. I loved most of my 35 years in teaching, I taught abroad, was an examiner and an exam reviser, officer in an academic association, climbed the greasy pole, won a teacher's fellowship, got told not to come in so early because in a PFI building it costs. I taught in working class comprehensives and amongst my past students are many professionals, a judge, an MP etc etc. But those changes I referred to above did it for me, out at 58.
My daughter's done two years of primary teaching (after 10 years in business) and she has to really slog away and that's in a 'good' school.
Oh and Poly, it's 'morale'


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:34 am
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

Go to several schools (both good and bad) and see what it is like. Parents can be just as bad if not worse than the kids in some schools.

I'm starting a PGDE in biology with science in August after having a research career and spending almost a decade as a stay at home dad (I was 44 this year). I'm doing it because I love science, talking about science and teaching science. The holidays have nothing to do with my choice and the money was only 22k when I applied for the NQT year (27k from next year). I've taught at university but this is going to be quite different. I have to say there is no way I could be a primary teacher, bad enough having my own wee shite kids at that age lol.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:41 am
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

I’m starting a PGDE in biology with science in August after having a research career

Good luck, is PGDE scotland, I am a bit out of date...if you nedd any advice when it gets tough, which if you are doing it right it wiil, please get in touch. Been teaching Science and Biology A level almost 15 years now I think.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:56 am
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

@anagallis_arvensis

yeah Scotland - going to be hellishly tough as I'm having to work part time, 3 kids and got a bit of travel to the uni. I'm only worried about the two 6000 word essays I have to do.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:01 am
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

Essays will be easy!! Bang them out, dont sweat about them and focus on the teaching!


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:32 am
 poly
Posts: 8748
Free Member
 

In short, having seen what being a teacher does to people and the amount of friends diagnosed with mental health issues I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not entirely negative, there are a lot of positives and many rewarding results along the way but it can come with a price.

Which profession would you recommend that doesn't come with mental health issues? I'm not suggesting that teaching is not worse than some, but lets not pretend that there is any career path which doesn't suffer from these issues. As we start to become slightly more open about MH issues the "apparent prevalence" is only going to increase too.

Coyote - no, I'm not a teacher. Have teacher family members and friends. The negativity of the staff room comes from the feedback of those who came to teaching from other professions, and resonates with my experiences in other "workplace staff rooms" - they become condensed bitching and moaning about the job/management/policy.

Anagalis - no idea how you would leap to such an inference. Did you miss the qualifying adjective? Are Primary school more common to go direct? certainly the feedback from my friends is that teachers who have never worked elsewhere moan more about how bad it is than those who have seen how shit the whole world is. Lets be clear I'm not suggesting that teaching is great, just that there are plenty of shit places to work, and if you find teaching rewarding it might cancel out the negatives compared to having similar crap to deal with without a trade off.

Bill - damn autocorrect - although it might work with that spelling too? 😉


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:45 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Go to several schools (both good and bad) and see what it is like

But be careful how you define "good" and "bad". An "outstanding" Ofsted school is not necessarily a good one to work in. Likewise one in special measures my not necessarily be a bad place to work for a classroom teacher.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:46 am
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

So by inference you have less than 2 years teaching experience but already know more than those with much more.

no, I’m not a teacher

Anagalis – no idea how you would leap to such an inference

Er????


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:51 am
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

But be careful how you define “good” and “bad”.

Better to think of it as a range of schools.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 11:16 am
 poly
Posts: 8748
Free Member
 

Angalis - so are you saying it doesn’t become a LITTLE easier after the first two years? Do you believe that your experience is better than the other teachers who tell me it does?


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 11:23 am
Posts: 7337
Free Member
 

Angalis – so are you saying it doesn’t become a LITTLE easier after the first two years? Do you believe that your experience is better than the other teachers who tell me it does?

Sure, you can reuse resources and your experience grows as with any other role. However, increasing pressure due to clueless politicians meddling in the system, pushy or obnoxious parents getting in your face and non-teachers professing to know all about it* somewhat negates the benefits.

What other roles don't carry the same mental health risks? I've worked in IT for over 30 years. I have had roles as a Service Desk analyst, support technician, service delivery manager, project manager and head of IT in national and multi-national organisations. They have all had their moments but I wouldn't say that they carry the same mental pressures as teaching. I'm not a teacher but have been married to one for over 25 years. Of course you know better.

*see your post for sweeping generalisations.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 11:42 am
Posts: 2434
Free Member
 

I work in Insurance and have done so for a long time, was also in the military prior to this. I'd agree that from my perspective these industries don't have the same mental health pressures as primary school teaching.
My wife has been a teacher for a decade, I'd again also confirm it doesn't get any easier after two years. Yes you know the role more, but the pressure to hit targets remains. I honestly see it like my early years in sales at a bank - the pressure to hit targets at all costs was very similar. There used to be a pride thing with only the strong survive, but this was just egotism at play. Anyway that's digressing.
I'd also like to generalise in saying in the two schools she has worked, there is a large number of young teachers with no previous industry experience, I'd also say there is an equal number of experienced teachers who have worked in other industries. Wife worked in banking, her best friend was a police woman and one other friend was a solicitor. The police woman and solicitor both came into teaching thinking it would have been less stressful than their jobs at the time. Solicitor is close to leaving and police woman moved to a village school in Wales with a complete different outlook and is now thriving (she was very close to giving up on teaching as had two periods of stress related illness).


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 11:53 am
Posts: 13817
Full Member
 

Primary Teacher? Life of Riley if the three I know are anything to go by.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 12:06 pm
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

Angalis – so are you saying it doesn’t become a LITTLE easier after the first two years?

Not really no, the work load and pressure increase if anything until you decide to step down. The teaching gets easier the other shit gets worse.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 12:31 pm
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

But be careful how you define “good” and “bad

different up here to England, no ofsted. The only statisitic I think is the number of passes at higher etc are recorded for high schools at least, couldn't tell you are primary. That doesn't actually mean anything though. I only went to "good" schools for my visits but that was because they were the only ones that replied. My eldest started off in a "bad" school but has moved to a "good" school. There is less distruption in the class from pupils in his "good" school if you understand.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 12:31 pm
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

Primary Teacher? Life of Riley if the three I know are anything to go by

Secondary is even easier and currently there are 31 jobs within 25miles of my house going free...and very unlikely to be filled by september. My current school has 4 posts needing to be filled just in science and no one applying to do them...sign up to the gravy train!! 😁


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 12:34 pm
Posts: 5963
Full Member
 

Deleted because my other half is still a bit paranoid and doesn't want any comeback. If you want to message me I'll give some details. But it wasn't a good time in our life.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 12:41 pm
Posts: 2285
Free Member
 

What the **** have we done wrong to get to the point where a job that should be so joyful is so terrible?

This.
I taught for 10 years. I loved every minute of my time in the classroom, and I never had much trouble from OFSTED as my results were so good. It should be - and sometimes is - the best job in the world.
However, I couldn't take the workload any longer - it got so depressing having no social life at all except for a few weeks in the summer. I even gave up cycling for the last 5 years, as commuting was impossible and there was simply no time to do it. There were far too many pointless tasks and 'initiatives' that were given priority over actual teaching.

When I changed career my friend told me it was like I'd moved back to the city from afar (I didn't ask if this was a good thing).


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 3:19 pm
Posts: 4315
Free Member
 

I'm currently a Deputy Head in a secondary school with over 20 years experience in education (and worked in other jobs before that). I resigned last month; I love working with young people and I have a supportive school and headteacher, but my mental health was affected massively and I have had enough of trying to do multiple roles, each of which should be a full time job (I appreciate that other industries are similar in this respect). I fundamentally no longer agree with how we educate children in this country and the unfairness and inconsistency in how Ofsted scrutinises schools (i.e. looking for faults rather than a supportive process of working with school to improve them) plus the way that many parents take no responsibility for their children and blame teachers.

I am lucky - I have been offered another role (support staff) in my current school, but massive drop in wages and pension. However, I am looking forward to free evenings and weekends and be able to start cycling to work again 🙂

My point? Working with children is amazing and rewarding and is to be recommended, however if you value your quality of life and wellbeing I would (personally) suggest a different career.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 4:34 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Primary school teacher? Don’t do it unless you want to experience long hours, pointless bureaucracy and burnout.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 6:42 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Do not do it, from experience of several family members...


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 7:12 pm
 Ewan
Posts: 4356
Free Member
 

As a counter example my wife loves her job. Doesn't seem to have to do massive amounts at home, likes her colleagues and enjoys going in every day.

She does work pretty long hours though in order to not bring stuff home.

Teaches early years and has been careful to avoid getting given any 'great opportunities'.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:15 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Please can my wife go to your wife’s school.

She is a 50% part timer but in reality works about 5-6 days a week, and on teaching days that’s 0730 arrive at school, home around 1830 and a couple of hours work at home during the evening.

Your wife’s school sounds remarkably relaxed.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 8:46 pm
Posts: 44166
Full Member
 

Similar jobs with different or less stress? Mine. Nursing. Yes it's stressful work. Indeed in many ways more so. The big difference? It's 37.5 hours a week and that is it. Work is work, home is home.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:08 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

She is a 50% part timer but in reality works about 5-6 days a week, and on teaching days that’s 0730 arrive at school, home around 1830 and a couple of hours work at home during the evening.

That's crazy. I'm a secondary teacher in Scotland and I think I probably average out over the course of the year at a 9hr day. Hardly ever taken work home and never do work at weekends or in holidays (except voluntary stuff like DofE).


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:09 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Minimind, yes exactly that in fact atm.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:12 pm
Posts: 185
Free Member
 

My wife is a Primary teacher in Scotland and has been at it for close to 25 years. There is so much of the job she loves and it is definitely something she is naturally good at - what is needed from a teacher matches what she is like.

But even she is wondering how long she can keep going. Number of things in no particular order:
> Management part 1. It varies. And generally there's not enough of it so managers themselves are overburdened and so miss things / make mistakes which impact teachers and kids.
> Management part 2. Discipline support, or lack thereof. There's always an excuse not to deal with the bampots which just emboldens them.
> The council. Creates processes which are in conflict with what teachers are expected to do. Must use this software and must work online but oops, sorry it is down today when you need it. And again. And Again.
> Inclusion on the cheap - not enough additional support for those who need it. If a kid needs near 1:1 attention because their capability is that of a 3 year old, then how is a teacher meant to look after the other 30+ in P5.
> Specialisms. Things she spent time studying are being transferred to specialists to give McCrone time. She misses doing those subjects.

None of that is impossible to sort, but needs resource and policy which does not seem to be available


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:22 pm
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

teach science so you get a max class size of 20.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:30 pm
Posts: 9256
Full Member
 

I can't see an 'outstanding' school being good to work in having seen how hard it is for even good in a HE environment (Uni).

I work in HE training teachers, nurses, physios etc etc. they are all a hard job, and the profession is a vocation - I'm not one of those - I look after the "money", but at all levels it's hard, even training the 'trainers'. Loads of government standards/audits and the like - it's hard for teachers to deal with.

The Education sector is very stressful. Yes we have good holidays/pension, but the constant external review pressures cause loads of stress, and then in turn, internal stress.

It's also a rewarding career for personal reasons - you rarely get 'external' praise....

It's a hard job - I couldn't do it. My colleagues say they couldn't do my job, but I'd just string the kids up. You need a good 'team' behind you to make teaching great. That's where looking for a good school/college/uni structure is very important.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:41 pm
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

teach science so you get a max class size of 20.

Er... only my bottom set yr10's and my tear 13's are less than 20. The rest are between 28-32


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:42 pm
 poah
Posts: 6494
Free Member
 

@anagallis_arvensis

should have said in Scotland


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 9:48 pm
Posts: 2335
Free Member
 

I trained under the graduate trainee scheme to be a Primary Teacher, key stage 1 initially, then KS2.

I loved it and the graduate scheme was a great way to train on the job and bring experience, skills and confidence into the job that straight from uni teachers often lack. Been male was seen as a big bonus by both the school and parents.

5 years later I'm pretty sure it contributed to my ending up on incapacity due to ME/CFS though.

Being a committed and good primary teacher is bloody hard work. Those holidays are well earned, atleast partly worked through (as are weekends) and essential for 'recovery', though obviously not enough in my case lol!


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:06 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

What is it all you teachers working over weekends and holidays are actually doing in that time?


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:11 pm
Posts: 2335
Free Member
 

Medium and long term planning, lesson plans, resource building, assessment write up and marking, sorting out classroom resources, displays, specialist duties (ICT & PE in my case). Even just sorting out exercise books and classrooms for new years and terms.

Actually teaching the kids is the easy bit! Well ish....


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:18 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

I think I do most of the things you mention but mostly fit it into a fairly reasonable working day. Things are a bit different in Scotland and in secondary teaching but I wonder if that explains it all?


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:23 pm
Posts: 2335
Free Member
 

Well I don't know how. I got maybe an hour a week that wasn't direct teaching during school hours.

In KS1 I also spent my dinner time most days listening to kids read while eating my sarnies.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:29 pm
Posts: 8527
Free Member
 

There's an obsession with good schools, eleven plus, catchment areas etc and all that shit darn sarf that (apart from the odd areas of Glasgow and Edinburgh), we don't really give a shit about.

In the main, kids just go to their local school up here, and get an education.

I hope to god it stays that way.

Although Ruth Davidson bangs on about it every bloody day.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:29 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

I got maybe an hour a week that wasn’t direct teaching during school hours.

That makes a difference. In Scotland minimum non contact time is 5hrs per week I think.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:36 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

I hope to god it stays that way.

Not sure it's going to. Phrases like 'using data to close the attainment gap' are getting bandied about with increasing frequency.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:38 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

n KS1 I also spent my dinner time most days listening to kids read while eating my sarnies.

That sounds like a choice you made? Not saying this is you but I have an awful lot of colleagues who complain about doing stuff they've chosen to do, been put under no pressure to do, won't be criticised for not doing and that has minimal impact!


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 10:40 pm
Posts: 2335
Free Member
 

Nope, not a choice I made. I guess I could have said no its my dinner, but I'd have been out on my ear and failing my kids. I was in a fairly deprived area where most kids got no support at home, teachers would grab kids when ever they could at break or dinner to read with them. It was expected.

Also prep for and taking part in school events, plays, bingos etc. outside normal school hours for fund raising.


 
Posted : 12/06/2019 11:12 pm
 Spin
Posts: 7678
Free Member
 

I guess I could have said no its my dinner, but I’d have been out on my ear and failing my kids. I was in a fairly deprived area where most kids got no support at home, teachers would grab kids when ever they could at break or dinner to read with them. It was expected.

To illustrate the differences, I absolutely cannot imagine that happening in a Scottish school.

It also illustrates the massive governmental hypocrisy around education. They claim it's valued and a top priority but they don't fund it properly and instead pile pressure on teachers to improve the outcomes. If there was a literacy issue in your school there should have been a proper, proven, timetabled program to tackle it, not time wasting, sticking plaster pish like grabbing kids and reading to them in your lunch hour. You wouldn't have been failing those kids by not doing that, the system was failing both them and you.

I care about the pupils I teach but I also care about myself and I'm absolutely not willing to work myself into the ground to make up for governmental failings.


 
Posted : 13/06/2019 7:18 am
Posts: 26766
Full Member
 

I think I do most of the things you mention but mostly fit it into a fairly reasonable working day. Things are a bit different in Scotland and in secondary teaching but I wonder if that explains it all?

Having a max of 20 in my classses would cut my marking load by about 25%


 
Posted : 13/06/2019 12:03 pm
Posts: 3747
Free Member
 

Blimey. This makes depressing reading. My OH is a primary teacher here in País Vasco, gets paid 14 times a year (extra month at both Christmas and Summer), is usually at school from 8.30 to 16.00, til 19.00 once a week, brings nothing home except a ton of marking every term end. Hols are 21 Jun to 1 Sept, 2 weeks each at Easter and Xmas plus avg 12 días festivos, no half terms here.
Many downsides as with any job but the teachers are well supported and she genuinely loves working with the kids, we bump into them around town fairly often and they'll always stop and chat.
The British way of doing things usually filters through eventually so the future doesn't bode well...


 
Posted : 13/06/2019 12:31 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Sounds like there is a lot of difference between teaching secondary in Scotland and primary in England.

Another example from England.

A teacher I know teaching year 2. School tells her there is no money to buy basic teaching resources next year (ie. colouring pencils etc.). Without those resources the kids won't be able to meet their attainment targets (e.g. they have to learn how to colour between the lines). But If they don't meet their attainment targets, the teacher will be blamed and put on capability review. The heavy hint from the school that she will be expected to fund those resources herself.

Not surprisingly she will be another teacher leaving the profession.


 
Posted : 13/06/2019 12:52 pm