MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I prefer the 7d over the 600d, it feels better built, the body is bigger for my bigger hands, has a sensor cleaner....... But it's another £400, i was going to spend this money on another lense, but would i be better off buying the body i prefer.
I've just got a pentax. The deciding factor for me was the fact that they're weatherproof, sand too.
Probably a useful feature for you also
Personally I much prefer the feel of the bigger bodies, the quick play of the 7d I've had left me impressed. I'd go for that if you've got the money.
The 8fps looks like it's worth the extra cash.
It would mean sacrificing a lens in order to buy it.... usually people say the other way around, sacrifice a model upgrade to pay for a lens upgrade, but feel that the size of the 7d is more suited to myself aspecially with the large telescopic lenses bolted onto the front.
Also i think the better autofocusing system would be of benifit when filming.
The 7d is a much better camera then I deserve at the minute
I really like using the 7D.. smaller cameras feel like toys in comparison!
usually people say the other way around
Only old people 😉
Digital bodies advance at an incredible rate and they don't use the same film anymore. Value for money comes with better bodies - all your existing lenses will be better.
I don't have any existing lenses.......
I'd be looking for a good prime, a wide angle, prob the canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
and a cheap second hand telephoto
The 7d is a much better camera then I desrve at the minute
What makes you think that?
I don't have any existing lenses.......
Ah. I'd get a Sony a850 in that case.
@ DS
Still learning the art of photography, and not sure that i have the eye for brilliant photos.
@ 5th
Lack of video is a major issue....
Ah yes. Carry on. 😉
If size is important you can always get a battery grip for a smaller camera.
@ DSStill learning the art of photography, and not sure that i have the eye for brilliant photos.
Hmmm, OK. Dunno what to say then...
Is it the 7d + kit lens or just the body?
If it's a toss up between a 7d body or a 60d + lens(es), I'd go for the camera + lens(es).
If it's the 7d + kit lens, this would be my personal choice.
What lens would you be sacrificing?
I've gone through 3 bodies in 10 years, lenses are still here though and have got thousands of photos from them.
It's a lot of money to spend if you aren't even sure you're a photographer....
If I were you I'd think about what you actually want to do, and what kit will allow you to do that.
Love my 7D. The kit with the 18-135 isn't bad for the money. I'd get the 15-85mm one tho.
Get the cheaper body, if it subsequently becomes "serious" then it can be your backup camera in a couple of years when you need two.
</2p>
Also i think the better autofocusing system would be of benifit when filming.
The autofocus doesn't work in video mode (well I think there is a very slow live view AF mode but it's not really usable).
Not tried the 600D but a 550D feels like a toy compared to the 7D.
From my knowledge of the Canon range, the 7D is effectively 2 models up from the 600D, if slightly older. Whilst ultimately in the long-distant future you'll probably upgrade the body before changing any expensive lenses you may have purchased in the mean time, that doesn't mean buying a better body was a waste if you enjoyed using it and it helped you take good pictures.
Bodies are just boxes of electrics, they'll be superseded in time. Unless there's certain functions on the 7 that you NEED, then don't bother. Get the cheaper body and anther lens. If you get to the point where you want to take things further then the 7D will probably be nearer why you paid for the 600 now.
Are we talking about the 60d or the 600d?
60d has video and the 600d is the new 350d. Is that correct?
( I can't be arsed googling).
All three share the same sensor and have video, 600D and 60D have the tilt out rear LCD, 7D has much better AF system and micro adjust for fine tuning of lenses
600D Smallest, polycarbonate body, no weather sealing, Takes SD card
60D Medium size, polycarbonate body, some weather sealing, takes SD
7D Largest and heaviest, magnesium body, reasonably well sealed and takes CF card
Personally would buy a 550D and spend out on lenses, the image quality will be near enough equal as that also shares the same 18mp sensor and is available at a good price with 30 quid cashback from Canon as well
I'm still using a 40D with decent'ish lenses, but will admit the high ISO performance is better on these latest models
that doesn't mean buying a better body was a waste if you enjoyed using it and it helped you take good pictures
What features of a body will help get good pictures?
IMO, (not that it counts for much!) a picture of slightly lower IQ that you framed up and captured is worth more than a top quality one that you didn't get. So given a set budget I think it's better to buy a wider variety of cheaper stuff than just a few expensive items.
By that I mean normal zoom, long zoom, wide angle, macro, fast prime etc etc. I'd rather have all that on a cheap camera than a kit zoom with an expensive body.
Bodies are just boxes of electrics, they'll be superseded in time
Exactly, well boxes with computers in. Every 18 months they get twice as good. So all your lenses will be twice as good. Lenses have barely changed in 20 years.
I guess you're not using a 20 year old computer? Or even a 4 year old one.
Every 18 months they get twice as good
Of that I am sceptical! Twice as good how?
[url= http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Camera-Sensor/Compare/Compare-sensors/(appareil1)/676%7C0/(appareil2)/615%7C0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Pentax/(brand2)/Pentax ]K5 vs K7[/url]
K5 was $1374 on its release in September 2010
K7 was $1900 on its release in May 2009
Have a look at any metric you like, but for example, the K5 at iso200 exhibits the same noise as the K7 at iso100 (and that trend continues to all ISOs).
That makes [b]all[/b] your lenses one stop faster for the price of one lens one stop faster than your fastest lens.
Good point - but is that the case for all cameras or just a particularly noisy one? Weren't Pentax fairly new to the market anyway?
Good point - but is that the case for all cameras or just a particularly noisy one? Weren't Pentax fairly new to the market anyway?
Have a play with DXO.
You can see where some manufacturers recycle the old internals in new boxes. There's a 2-3 year cycle generally where not much happens, then a big bang in the next generation.
Well you might consider the same noise at half the ISO to be a two-fold improvement, and you might be right.. however twice as good for taking photos? Impossible to say. Twice as many 'keeper' shots? Twice the image quality? You feel twice as happy shooting? Twice as many people go 'ooh wow' looking at your pics?
Impossible to say really innit.
Well you might consider the same noise at half the ISO to be a two-fold improvement, and you might be right.. however twice as good for taking photos? Impossible to say. Twice as many 'keeper' shots? Twice the image quality? You feel twice as happy shooting? Twice as many people go 'ooh wow' looking at your pics?Impossible to say really innit.
I didn't mean to imply that the photos would be twice as good. You won't notice a stop, which is counter-intuitive (and why the scale is logarithmic as we perceive it that way).
I was responding to the film-era 'lenses are more important than bodies' mantra. Bodies are where the bang-for-the-buck is these days. Assuming you actually own some lenses of course.
But... old 'crap' kit is still so good that better kit doesn't help in normal conditions and it's the user that accounts for 90% of the photo anyway.
600D Smallest, polycarbonate body, no weather sealing, Takes SD card
60D Medium size, polycarbonate body, some weather sealing, takes SD
7D Largest and heaviest, magnesium body, reasonably well sealed and takes CF card
Isn't the OP looking for video which can be found on the second two and as I still can't be arsed looking isn't found on the first?
Quite right. It's all very confusing really, because it's all largely theoretical. It makes very little practical difference what SLR you're using.. but I'm repeating myself now 🙂
Choose what you like to handle, what you can afford, has the features you like and whatever compatibility you may need. End of, really.
Isn't the OP looking for video which can be found on the second two and as I still can't be arsed looking isn't found on the first?
Video on all three, in fact be hard pushed to find one that doesn't have it these days
Weren't Pentax fairly new to the market anyway?
I had a Pentax DSLR (K100D) ages ago and they made them a good while before that too, very nice cameras, but distinct lack of longer primes and zooms.
All the canons I've looked at all have hd video, basically it comes down to if I find using the 7d much easier/comfortable due to size / quality construction / weather protection. These physical features make a better upgrade over an extra year waiting for another lens.
And if I buy the smaller bodied 550d is it going to annoy me!!
Yeah, don't underestimate 'feel' (which you obviously haven't).
I replaced Tamron 28-75 f2.8 with a Tokina 28-70 f2.8 purely on feel. The all metal Tokina is just so much nicer to use than the light plastic Tamron despite the Tamron being [slightly] technically superior in every way.
I think at least for a couple of years I'm not really going to notice a difference in the 'quality' between the 7d or the 600d ..... Now adays the budget lenses and budget bodies provide a much crisper and better picture then anything I'm used too.
I'm not going to stretch the legs of any camera, yes the 7d will be 'electronically' better then the 550d but i'm not going to notice it. Likewise, I'm not really going to notice the difference in the lenses yet, and here I very much agree with molgrips. I think its better to have a couple of lenses which cover a range, i.e. fast prime, wideangle, telephoto, then one really good lens. For now i probably wouldn't notice the diffence in the picture quality, due to the glass etc, so it wouldn't really bother me to sacrifice a lens to allow me to buy the more comfy camera to use.
And if I buy the smaller bodied 550d is it going to annoy me!!
Takes a while to get used to a DSLR especially a fairly complex one like the 7D as quite a few people have found.
Modern high mp cameras show up any shortcomings in cheaper lenses and you may also find it hard to avoid camera shake which leads to blurred pictures
Sounds like you might be better off with a videocam
Modern high mp cameras show up any shortcomings in cheaper lenses
Only if you look for them. Print a photo the same size from a low-res camera and a high-res camera and you'll get the same result.
As you print bigger, which you can with a high-res body, there will come a point where a better lens comes into its own. Not true of the low-res body.
There is no disadvantage of a high-res body, just a potential advantage.
and you may also find it hard to avoid camera shake which leads to blurred pictures
See above.
Sounds like you might be better off with a videocam
What? 😯 😆
Some people are massively over-playing the differences between these cameras, it seems 🙂
If you prefer the ergonomics of the 7D then it's probably better to get that than get something that's uncomfortable as there's a chance you'll be more likely to use it more..
I've found a heavier camera better for video as well, seems more stable for hand held shooting.
Why not get the one that's in between the two?
you may also find it hard to avoid camera shake which leads to blurred pictures
That was a general comment no matter what DSLR you use, seems to be the cause of the majority of bad photos I see regardless of mp count
One thing to note if you're planning to take pictures of bikes - the 7D autofocus is quite a lot better. It really is superb.
Anyone know exactly why it's better?
Anyone know exactly why it's better?
Has a lot more focus points, its own processor and can be customised to a much greater degree, that will do for starters
Right just googled, it seems impressive. It has lots of points which you can group together if you want, and if you say choose a point on the left then rotate the camera it keeps your point on the left... Also lots of improvements on continuous AF apparently too. Seems very sophisticated 🙂
However, and this may be relevant, apparently many many cameras have had an AF fault...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33495689
Ken Rockwell thinks it's the best Canon APS-C camera ever, however despite that he lists cons related to AF:
1.) New AF system draws big, black rectangles as each AF sensor goes active — and they never turn off as you're trying to compose! These big, ugly, distracting rectangles don't go away until after you've taken your picture! This makes it difficult to see your subject's expression, or even your subject! (better cameras turn off the AF point indicators after focus locks.)2.) New 19-sensor AF system is so complex that it doesn't work as well as Canon's classic 9-point system. This is because when you need to change among settings, there are now so many settings that you need to stop what you're doing and click a few buttons to do what you used to be able to do with one finger.
I have to say that in my trial of the 7d I wasn't that impressed with the autofocus, but it was a friend's camera and I didn't want to play with it too much...
Not sure I agree with Ken Rockwell, but then I do own one so i'm not impartial. It's not the 19 focus points that makes it better in my opinion, it's the speed that it focuses at. The AI Servo tracking really is very impressive - never used to use it on my 30D (or the 350D i had before that) as it couldn't keep up with mtbing, now it's pretty much all I use for mtb shots.
And point 2 is rubbish - just configure the joy stick to do the choose the focus point - it's what I did on the 30 d and what i did now.
Point 1 is a load of bollocks as well as far as I'm concerned! Been using the 7D on a regular basis for about a year now and have never found the black boxes to get in the way at all.
Weren't Pentax fairly new to the market anyway?
Uh 😯
Founded Tokyo, Japan (1919)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentax
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Do you need all this....Just look at what is possible with a micro four thirds camera.. which will save you a heap of cash and weight
http://2guysphoto.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/a-lasting-impression-meet-bob-tullis/#more-1343
I just handled a 7d in the shop. Holy cow what a serious lump! My hands were tired after a short play... seriously massive. I felt like a kid holding it.
MTFU!! 😆 'kinlightweight, fancy working with something like that with a 70-200 L f4 (so not heavy) and flash for 4-5 hours or more?
That's why Olympus are ace 🙂
Don't even notice it, I'd keep forgetting I was holding a camera if it came in any lighter and be scared of breaking it, even the small Canons, 350d etc, are tiny...
You wouldn't like mine then... I must say I'm not scared of breaking it because I don't smash it into things 🙂 At least, not yet.