[Closed] Amazon Echo - Snooping and Adverts?

Snooping you say ... So that it knows what you want and directs you to it ??

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-amazon-prime-bodsamazon-echo-79

I ordered one, controls are so last century, its all about voice now. "Hey computer play me some funky music" works for cortana so I'm hoping for the same from this.

Dont care what info they take that was a lost cause long ago.

cheers - missed that thread, will go and read up there

How useful is it ?

It's not life-changing and it doesn't do anything you can't do by other methods. But it can be handy.

Nice little list of command here will give you a flavour, though third-party "skills" can be added to increase its capabilities:

https://www.cnet.com/uk/how-to/amazon-echo-the-complete-list-of-alexa-commands/

Are adverts really part of the experience ?

What do you mean? Not heard any adverts from it.

I know it's continually listening, but does it snoop? (like websites & cookies)

It's not [i]really[/i] continually listening. It listens out for a selectable wake word ("Alexa", "Computer", "Echo" or "Amazon") and only then sends what you say to Amazon for interpretation.

Not quite sure what you mean by "websites & cookies". Obviously Amazon will know what you've been asking Alexa about. I guess they may use that information to change recommendations for you on the Amazon site.

It listens out for a selectable wake word ("Alexa", "Computer", "Echo" or "Amazon") and only then sends what you say to Amazon for interpretation

I have it on reasonable authority from someone who knows about these things, that it's not quite as passive as they'd like you to believe. There's plenty of IP traffic from the device to the internet all the time, not only when it's 'activated' by a keyword.

I know it's continually listening, but does it snoop?

I doubt it. They'd need immense processing power for that, and it'd be of dubious benefit. If you're discussing a purchase, you're probably going to be searching for it on the computer later anyway, so gains would be marginal for massive outlay.

As for adverts - there are none.

EDIT although, I can't rule out the security services using it to listen in on targetted people.

There's plenty of IP traffic from the device to the internet all the time, not only when it's 'activated' by a keyword.

Yep, but it's too small to be voice traffic. Basic net monitoring shows very large increases in traffic when the wake word is spoken and a request is made.

e.g. see https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/06/careless-whisper-does-amazon-echo-send-data-in-silent-mode/

Plus there is no way even Amazon could handle 24 hour live streams of voice data from every Echo device out there.

fwiw, the most 'life changing' thing on it for me is the ability to shout out things to add to a shopping list when you discover it missing\running out in the food cupboard (you can view the list from your mobile later). very handy

And if you don't trust Amazon when they say they are not doing this (which is fair enough) then you might want to think about whether you trust your phone manufacturer and telecoms provider, who not only have access to a microphone, camera and transmitter conveniently on your person, but also your GPS and/or triangulated cell-tower position.

Amazon sell tin foil hats too, throw one in the basket.

Though you will forever more be plagued with ads for Bacofoil.

Plus there is no way even Amazon could handle 24 hour live streams of voice data from every Echo device out there.

Given the resources of AWS (largest cloud computing provider by miles) and the fact parsing the data would be fully automated, I suspect they could quite easily process it all. Whether they'd want to is another issue.

GCHQ process 100% of internet data into / out of the UK in real time, which is Tb/s for each undersea cable, all of which are tapped.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

Thanks, OP, you've cost me £80. 😉
Echo ordered.

I have it on reasonable authority from someone who knows about these things

You could just say a mate down the pub was talking to someone.

cheers for all the input - it's informative and amusing, and it's now ordered

I suspect they could quite easily process it all

Process it how? There's no chance they could use it to extract keyword information from conversations in context. That would cost millions in hardware alone, that they could sell to someone else for more millions instead of using it to gain a very slight possibly non-existent advantage in targeted advertising.

GCHQ might be listening to everything but they will be combing it for keywords or key people and binning almost all of it.

If you can be arsed reading the small print I'm sure it'll say

"You will be monetized"**

Ref data analysis Amazon have the firepower in a service that can be programmatically put to use when the paying customers aren't using it.

**There's the obvious ways such as promoting products and services that are apparently of 'interest' and then there are ways they haven't even dreamed up yet.

All under the vague umbrella of 'analytics and improvement'

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I've just discovered the voice recording history, I didn't realise it stored a recording of every command you give it!! I've not asked for owt weird, but it's embarrassing listening back to myself!

As an aside to all this, does anyone else struggle to get Alexa to understand them? She can't tell a bloody word I say and she isn't getting any better!

I thought there was a voice training function in the app (I'm sure I've seen it before) but I can't find it now that I can be bothered to do it.

You will be monetized

Of course you will. Why the hell would Amazon go to all this trouble otherwise? They are a business.

GCHQ might be listening to everything but they will be combing it for keywords or key people and binning almost all of it.

Exactly. Reading that Guardian article (which was interesting thanks) they talk about [i]"certain triggers that allow you to discard or not examine a lot of data"[/i] and filters that [i]"pull out packets of information relating to "selectors" – search terms including subjects, phone numbers and email addresses of interest"[/i] and collecting "meta-data" - they have to do that because the volume of data is so huge. And most of that effort seems focused on plain text, encrypted data.

Likewise Amazon, despite the vast power of AWS, simply don't have capacity to capture 24hr live audio streams from every single Alexa device and run them all through voice recognition just on the off chance they hear you mentioning you'd quite like a box set of The Office.

It would also be massively illegal, very obvious from the data traffic, and the kind of thing that many clever souls on the internet will check as they'd love to catch them at it.

As an aside to all this, does anyone else struggle to get Alexa to understand them? She can't tell a bloody word I say and she isn't getting any better!

I find the Alexa voice recognition very accurate and I've got a Weegie accent that usually befuddles such things (insert "voice-activated lift in Scotland" sketch here).

I thought there was a voice training function in the app

On the bit where you can look and listen to the recent requests you've made in the app (Home screen or also in Settings->History) you should also get a bit that says "Alexa heard '...' Did Alexa do what you wanted? Yes/No"

I assume that what you answer there will train it a bit.

Also have a read of this list of commands to make sure you are asking for things the right was as it is not entirely natural language just yet:
> https://www.cnet.com/uk/how-to/amazon-echo-the-complete-list-of-alexa-commands/ <

Process it how? There's no chance they could use it to extract keyword information from conversations in context. That would cost millions in hardware alone, that they could sell to someone else for more millions instead of using it to gain a very slight possibly non-existent advantage in targeted advertising.

Well they have millions in HW already. As the largest cloud computing provider they have massive resources which they could chose to use when other customers aren't using it.

I agree it would be a pretty low return on investment, but given that most Alexas will just be recording silence for most of the day, they probably have more than enough processing power available.

There's no chance they could use it to extract keyword information from conversations in context.

I would guess that's the next thing they are all working on (Apple, FB, Amazon, Google) and probably only a few years away...

Well they have millions in HW already

Yes, but they bought that so they could charge other people to use it. They don't have tons of stuff sitting idle. The point is that the ROI is tiny and that's ignoring the MASSIVE cans of worms in both legal terms and customer relations, since they've already told us they don't do it and it's not in the T&Cs.

It's just not worth their while to do this from any angle.

There's lots of potential for Amazon to be popping up suggestions on the web based on casual conversation, or certain sounds.

e.g. you're talking to someone about having a BBQ and next thing it's got BBQ stuff in your basket ready to order, and delivered in a few hours, without having to ask it about BBQs.

It's like the modern day version of Clippy. "I hear you're planning a BBQ, would you like help with that?" 😉

Or it hears you're cooking what sounds like bacon (something sizzling at breakfast at least), so it comes up suggesting more bacon or bacon related stuff 😀

Privacy laws means it technically can't do anything without trigger words, but still. If I was one of their developers I'd be seriously be tempted to go beyond just asking it questions 😀

Anyway, thing I find with it though is I'd be uncomfortable talking to an inanimate object, and having to call it Alexa especially. Like with the home automation bits, turning on the lights, I just want Star Trek style and say "lights!" and on they go. Not "Alexa, turn on the lights". Though if/when I get round to the home automation bit I'll just have it automatically turn on the lights based on presence and ambient light level.

I'd be uncomfortable talking to an inanimate object, and having to call it Alexa especially. Like with the home automation bits, turning on the lights, I just want Star Trek style and say "lights!"

Well you can change the wake word to "Computer" if that feels more Trekky.

(You can also ask it for "Tea. Early Grey. Hot")

The point is that the ROI is tiny and that's ignoring the MASSIVE cans of worms in both legal terms and customer relations, since they've already told us they don't do it and it's not in the T&Cs.

It's just not worth their while to do this from any angle.

In which case we're in complete agreement.

I suspect they could quite easily process it all. Whether they'd want to is another issue.

I would wish them good luck, speech analytics gets sold to commerce but seems pretty hit or miss in delivering benefits.

If I was one of their developers I'd be seriously be tempted to go beyond just asking it questions

They already have, there are tons of daft things it can say.

I just want Star Trek style and say "lights!"

That always bothered me in Star Trek to be honest, how did the computer know when they were talking to [i]it[/i]?

Sometimes they used "Computer" as a wake word, but other times they had complete conversations with the computer and other crew members at the same time with no wake word. You'd have thought the computer would be constantly saying: [i]"Eh? Who do you want to raise shields, me or her? Why do you even bother giving the crew verbal orders so that they can press buttons when you have a super powerful voice activated computer that can do it. Brain the size of the planet."[/i] 😀

That always bothered me in Star Trek to be honest, how did the computer know when they were talking to it?

Contextual analysis. We're not far off that now.

Slight Hijack...

I have a dot arriving today, and was going to pair it with my soundbar. The problem I think I'm going to have is that when the soundbar goes in to sleep mode after about 15 mins of no activity you have to switch it back on manually in order to connect a Bluetooth device to it. Stupid design really. Other BT stuff I have comes out of sleep mode when something tries to connect.

Can you get the Dot to keep it alive, so you can always use voice commands, without switch it on manually?

jon1973

That's the opposite of the problem I've encountered with my dot.

I've got a mains powered bluetooth adapter connected to a mini hifi. I can say 'bluetooth off' to Alexa and it will disconnect, but then the bluetooth adapter immediately reconnects. The adapter doesn't have an off button so I have to unplug the damn thing.

scuttler - Member

If you can be arsed reading the small print I'm sure it'll say

"You will be monetized"**

Very much this imo. It'll help Amazon build up a more accurate picture of who you are; your age, gender, marital status, number of kids, income, hobbies, what you eat and drink, possibly your weight/level of activity etc so they can target you with more specific advertising and sell more accurate data to other parties.