[Closed] am i getting crapped on at work?

Tell her you will take a three hour lunch break and that you will feel disappointed if they dont want to pay you for this...see if she reacts the same way.
It is a formal relationship with rules you stick to them and so do they.
it is that simple/complex when it is contractual.
TBH your big problem is she does not seem to want you there
How you manage that is the real crux and I have limited advice to offer on this front.
Have you tried just discussing this with her in the manner you have here?

Ps have all correspondence y e-mail and send a copy to an offsite e-mail account

Have you tried just discussing this with her in the manner you have here?

she does not seem to want you there

to make things worse...my car broke down yesterday on the way to work so i phoned her to tell her i'd be late as i needed to be towed to the garage...i managed to borrow another car to get into work...i was 2.5 hours late, but she told me i would have to book it as half a days annual leave...normal office hours are 7 hours plus 1 hour for lunch and taking half a day off equates to 3.5 hours...
i pointed this out to her this morning and that technically i was owed a further hour...went down like a lead balloon with her...

i did that this morning and the answer was 1 hour as goodwill....but ist ok for everyone else to claim back their full hours....

Tel her you ill make your lunch break 2 hours as a goodwill gesture- 😉
If this is the case and you can prove it I would ask her to explain her managerial decision as to why everyone else got their contractual obligations and you get less for the same work. I would also quote my contract tbh and by e-mail.
You do your hours you just do them at different times

IME [ Union rep] it will be very hard for her to defend this as it is clearly "personal" and not what your contract of employment states
I very much doubt [ she has no right to violate your contract] she authority to do this tbh from the organisation never mind legally.

i'm not in a union so have no back up there...i'm a bit reluctant to take it up with HR as i get the feeling they will side with her due to her influence and level of seniority there...and that she knows quite a few senior HR people very well...
even if it was resolved i still dont want to be here any more...its a shit place to work...too many cliques are being formed and quite a lot of snobbery now goes on with some people thinking "i'm better than you cos i'm on a higher pay grade than you"...yet these are the ones who do absolutely naff all to earn their salaries apart from talk crap all day and suck up to those above them

Make a sexual harrasment claim against her 😀

I would not give them work for nothing anymore than they will pay me to sit at home. I would not care how senior they are the contract exists for both sides and their is no way they will let you ignore your half and pay you ot not work so why work for free?

FWIW I am not sure she can force you to take leave for this either but that would depend on your contract

Make a sexual harrasment claim against her

no but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted...but i wont as i dont think her treatment is based on race but purely on the fact that she's never liked me and hates the fact that i was put on her team without her say so...the timing of my application for another job elsewhere probably hasnt helped either...the reason i say this is because i put her down as one of my referees and i said i was happy for them to contact nay of my referees prior to offering me an interview...the job is internal within the same organisation (university)

I've not read all that but let me guess, she finds your work overly verbose and your reports hard to read?

FWIW I am not sure she can force you to take leave for this either but that would depend on your contract

she's done it with others and i think the university has a policy on this so i can accept that bit apart from her giving be back what i am owed which is currently 3 hours

[b]Short term;[/b] what does your contract say about paid overtime? Is she breaching your contract?

Personally, I'm happy either to work to rule or for there to be give and take, but the door has to swing both ways. Where I am currently I'm happy to work an hour or two's overtime and not claim it back, but then no-one would bat an eyelid if I rolled in an hour late the next day or took a long lunch to run errands. No way would I be working for free, unless it was a charity or something anyway.

WRT this:

she has also seemed to show a general lack of professional courtesy towards me or my work and will make snide or sarcastic remarks in front of others...often to make me look small...

This is bullying, and you absolutely need to put a stop to it. If it were me, I'd ask to see them in a side office and explain that public humiliation is unacceptable, and it stops immediately or you escalate the issue.

[b]Long term: [/b]You need to get out of there. As Randall said to Dante, shit or get off the pot. It's not clear whether the root cause lies with you or with management, but regardless it doesn't sound like it's going to get better any time soon unless you can get someone sympathetic in upper management / HR. Start looking for something else, the best time to get a job is when you already have one. Then go after them for constructive dismissal (-:

She does sound a bit of a bitch and there's no easy (legal...) solution. Just find another job and only work the hours you're paid in the meantime.
Although as a line manager myself I take a dim view on people haggling over the odd hour (and I'd also expect you take take a half day if you were 2.5 hours late). however in return I'm flexible if you need appointments, have to take an extra half hour for lunch from time to time, need to leave a bit early etc. Flexibility works both ways.

Could it be your fault too ?

You do seem to be whinging about the odd hour here or there, making things rather complex and trying to go over peoples heads because you feel badly done to ?

Irrelevent of everything else - So you were well late for work, as in turned-up almost at lunch time. She suggested you took a 1/2 day, and you responded that a 1/2 day is 3.5 hours whereas you were only 2.5 hours late...

Hmm.

Also tbh if you work like you write, I'm not surprised she wants you monitored.

Been there had the bitch from hell, all plausible to senior management, found out she was running a fiddle and pointed it out to a fellow worker who then imediately told her, got daggers for weeks,written warnings for nothing, and hated the job.

The woman i mentioned it to said i had more chance of a snowball surviving in hell than staying in my current job, that night things blew up i told her to stick her job after being given a final written warning, and walked out,went to gp next day, got a sick note for a month, walked home and a recorded delivery letter there saying i had been sacked for gross misconduct.
One of the happiest days of my life as i then sent one back to her saying i resigned the day before.

Just leave, she hates you and you have no chance.

Could it be your fault too ?

You do seem to be whinging about the odd hour here or there, making things rather complex and trying to go over peoples heads because you feel badly done to ?

why should i do 2 hours extra work for free when no-one else around here does?
they are pretty flexible given work hours i.e. if you turn up 30 minutes late then you leave 30 minutes late...we dont get overtime but are allowed to claim TOIL...so why am i being refused this when it is granted to everyone else?
there have been plenty of times when i have stayed later or have worked through my lunch and not claimed it back...but in this instance i would like to claim those hours back the same as others
also regarding the half day i took yesterday...others have also done this when they have taken half a day due to unforseen circumstances, have turned up earlier than expected and then been told we owe you x hours so take that as TOIL...so again why not for me?

So you were well late for work, as in turned-up almost at lunch time. She suggested you took a 1/2 day, and you responded that a 1/2 day is 3.5 hours whereas you were only 2.5 hours late...

Hmm.

Also tbh if you work like you write, I'm not surprised she wants you monitored.

Hmm

Oh the ironing
There are threads to take the piss and threads to be supportive see if you can work out what type this is ?

Because sometimes you have to be more flexible fella... i'm reading your posts and not getting the impression you are...

It seems to me it's only half her fault... Whilst i think she's being out of order and a bit of a cow... i'm not getting the impression you're helping yourself greatly.

All of that said... i echo the "leave" post, in simple terms it's where you spend the largest majority of your waking life... it should be a good place to be.

so if everyone worked late and everyone got toil and you got half the toil of everyone you would consider that fair and any moaning as not helping yourself?

It seems clear he is being deliberately targeted and the response of be more flexible is a rather strange one

Irrelevent of everything else - So you were well late for work, as in turned-up almost at lunch time. She suggested you took a 1/2 day, and you responded that a 1/2 day is 3.5 hours whereas you were only 2.5 hours late...

Hmm.

Also tbh if you work like you write, I'm not surprised she wants you monitored.

i actually start at 9.45 but usually i'm in the office at my desk at 9.30...and i take my lunch at 2.15 so i can spend some of my 45 minutes dropping off the car to my wife so she can go and pick up the kids after she has finished work...

b r - maybe you should go sit under a bridge and wait for 3 goats... 😯

update: i've just got word that my father in law is in a bad way in hospital and she is going to give me some time off...whether its as compassionate leave will depend on HR but at least she has a heart...
depending on how things go i may not be able to add further comments to this thread...but i will on my return...
thanks for all the helpful advice folks!

I think I agree with Weeksy.

My team (with the exception of 1) work flexibly and I appreciate that. When they need a bit of "flexi" time (even though we dont do it as a company) as the head of a department I give it to them. The relationship is pretty good and when I need them to work harder they will.

If one of them come to me and told me they were owed 2 hours I think I would take a dim view!

It seems clear he is being deliberately targeted and the response of be more flexible is a rather strange one

Nope, not seeing it...

Well look at that, middle management baboons use a forum devoted to the new golf, who'd have thought it.

Nope, not seeing it..

Do you routinely single out one person to have less time for TOIL than everyone else present or would you consider this to be victimising someone?

You know sometimes I am ashamed to be on this site as no difficult personal issue seems off limits to trolling or half arsed reading if I want to be kind to you.
I am not bothering to feed any more of this
Pretty low IMHO so you can go OT and have a pop at me now as well 🙄

no difficult personal issue

So this is up there with the big "personal issues" then? an hour?

I think your a bit of a drama queen personally.

but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted

You sure she doesn't have a point? Making false harassment claims could get you sacked ultra-quick with no recourse to a tribunal.

My team (with the exception of 1) work flexibly and I appreciate that. When they need a bit of "flexi" time (even though we dont do it as a company) as the head of a department I give it to them.

But his company DO have flexitime in place. So if its official why is he being treated differently than anyone else?

I can see where he's coming from, I have moments like this. Like putting in 15 hours unpaid overtime over a fortnight and then being told the following Monday you "Owe" them 15 minutes because you were late this morning after dropping the kids off!

So if its official why is he being treated differently than anyone else?

OK so how is flexi time measured? is it some informal mental record or does the OP clock/sign in etc. If its formal there must be a record somewhere surely?

Unfortunately, having worked in a similar environment 'being more flexible' will end in the urine being extracted.

Get your head together, get your CV together, find something else.
Often these attitudes are corporate as much as one individuals, and no one should have to stick it, but the UK being what it is you'll be in a better place quicker if you attack it yourself. You'll feel better about yourself too, guaranteed.

I don't think anyone needs to be told when they are working somewhere good, or at least fair, you just know. And then you don't mind pithing whenever it's needed.

It is a couple of hours, get over it. Sounds like you are being late, asking for flex working outside mot companies normal core hours and now asking for compassionate leave. You sound like a pita to manage so no wonder your relationship with your manager isn't great. If you really don't like it and think you can do better some where else vote with your feet and get another job.....

@gonzy - firstly I hope everything's OK with your old man.

Secondly - I think you're in the same position as me (university as well) we have a flexible working policy but it isn't enacted in my dept. If i work earlier or later i get no credit for it, even just in banked up good-will. I set off at 6am for a meeting the other week then wasn't allowed to leave at 16:50 the next day.
Clashes with boss are common etc. and unfortunately the general chatter amongst friends and colleagues in other uni's is that good HR is like gold-dust across the sector.
You've made a good first step in looking for another job

Whilst I do understand that there are many factors to your OP. I do have to say that considering, and reluctantly or not, they have been a bit flexible with your hours,which is a significant benefit that for many is simply not possible. As your Manager / Boss the claiming the 2 hours thing would have pissed me off too.

EDIT: Being flexible has to work BOTH ways.

i started working at my current place 5 years ago...initially things started off well but got worse as my line manager turned out to be a monster who would bully and harrass me constantly...it eventually got to the point where HR got involved and decided that i should no longer work in that role...they couldnt sack me so they offered me another role for a different team within the same division

So there was an issue in your old role, and now in your new role too.

while she was off the first time i was given great support by the director and my line manager and was always encouraged to develop myself professionally by taking any courses etc...but since her return this seems to have dried out whilst its still available for other staff members...she seems reluctant to put me on any training courses

They've invested heavily into you...

she has instructed my line manager that any work that i am asked to do has to go through my manager and not come to me direct...all of a sudden my work has to be monitored but previously it has been fine...now it seems i get given all the crappy jobs..up to the point where other staff members are asked to do things that i should be doing as in its in my job description and my role is defined by this work...

And are still not happy with the quality of your work...

my line manager suffered a stroke 2 months ago and will be off for some time so she is now managing me and is being even stricter with what work i am given

The department is hit by serious illness...

i made a request for flexible working and she reluctantly agreed...

And you ask for flexible hours!

but the thing that really pissed me off was that a few weeks ago we had an event at work, the normal practice is that everyone mucks in and as the event finishes quite late...any extra hours done can then be claimed back as toil...i had 2 hours owing to me so i put the request in to her to claim them

And then for overtime for two hours!

To be honest, I'd have been a lot harder on you than she has.

Sometimes you need to look at yourself before thinking the whole worlds against you.

I can see where he's coming from, I have moments like this. Like putting in 15 hours unpaid overtime over a fortnight and then being told the following Monday you "Owe" them 15 minutes because you were late this morning after dropping the kids off!

I had an a instance like this in my current employment. I replied with "are we working to the clocks now then?"
Boss (director) immediately choked and started going on about how great it was how flexible we all are. He knows full well how ****ed he'd be if I clocked on/off. I learned quickly that you need to stick up for yourself in civilian employment.

EDIT: I think wreckers neat phrase has it about standing up to employers

Employers will take the piss if they can get away with it and flexibility is one direction - try and get paid for not working if you think this is not the case or start coming in late and leaving early if you want to see what they think of "flexibility" and your contractual terms
Original post

but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted
You sure she doesn't have a point? Making false harassment claims could get you sacked ultra-quick with no recourse to a tribunal.

no but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted...but i wont as i dont think her treatment is based on race

It is a couple of hours, get over it.

Perhaps he should take a three hour lunch and use that reply to the employer...it would be ok to do this ?

Being flexible has to work BOTH ways.

As your Manager / Boss the claiming the 2 hours thing would have pissed me off too.

Al you lot saying this would it be taking the piss to take a three hour lunch break and still get paid ?Would you accuse the employer of inflexibility if they objected and suggest they were the ones with the problem ?

Sometimes you need to look at yourself

So there was an issue in your old role, and now in your new role too.

Yup. As you'll have read, HR agreed there was a problem in the first instance and moved him. He doesn't feel comfortable involving HR now as his current manager has influence there.

They've invested heavily into you...

Yup. As you'll have read, this investment stopped when his current manager returned to work, but continued for his colleagues.

And are still not happy with the quality of your work...

Yup. As you'll have read, they were happy with it until his current manager returned to work.

The department is hit by serious illness...

Yup. As you'll have read, the response of his manager to this is to further restrict the scope of his position.

And you ask for flexible hours!

Yup. As you'll have read, the OP is also flexible in offering later hours and working lunches.

And then for overtime for two hours!

Yup. As you'll have read, the OP is allowed to claim this as TOIL, in exactly the same way as his colleagues. Only their claim has been approved by the manager and his hasn't.

To be honest, I'd have been a lot harder on you than she has.

Yup. If you're as one eyed as your post suggests, it doesn't surprise me at all that you'd completely ignore a whole raft of information and act entirely on your own agenda.

To be honest, I'd have been a lot harder on you than she has.

If you have actually read what's been written, all it says to me is that you're not cut out for managerial work.

1. HR will move people to avoid potential situations - easier than confronting. OP probably need to front up to the fact he's being managed out.
2. Continuing to train the others - perhaps they were getting returns there and they were performing
3. Current manager has higher standards?
4. Man down, I would expect more from everyone
5. Hours flex to a point, departmental cover is important - perhaps him rolling in at 10 (though he agreed to 9.45) doesn't fit with operational requirements. Or sets unwanted precedents.
6. Claiming two hours overtime is petty in any position toward any kind of responsibility. I would not expect a manager to be paid or claim overtime. Shop floor/factory people fine. I'm presuming this isnt a Saturday job in a bike shop.
7. I'm just putting an employers point across, one eyed or not, it's clear you're not exactly in a position to be considering from this angle.

Sounds like the best plan is just keep your head down, don't kick up a fuss about the odd hour here and there and look for a new job (you might need a reference!!).

And then you'll realise what life is like in the real world outside of working for a uni... 😆

Oh, and you are Kevin, used to work for me, terrible at managing your time, your work was waffling and inefficient and kept a log of every 5 mins overtime you worked, and I claim my five pounds!!

[/cynical-3-long-weeks-of-free-overtime-in-the-private-sector]

And then you'll realise what life is like in the real world outside of working for a uni...

If this is true then +1 - get into the real world and you'll see what half the posters are on about.

It all sounds a bit juvenile and whingey to me; pissing about over a few hours and 'she likes them better than me'.

I'm interested in the 'I need to do the school run because my wife has gone back to work' thing; what would you do if they said no? Sounds like you presented them with a request they had no option but to agree too, and now you're complaining?

HR will move people to avoid potential situations - easier than confronting. OP probably need to front up to the fact he's being managed out.

2. Continuing to train the others - perhaps they were getting returns there and they were performing

3. Current manager has higher standards?

4. Man down, I would expect more from everyone

5. Hours flex to a point, departmental cover is important - perhaps him rolling in at 10 (though he agreed to 9.45) doesn't fit with operational requirements. Or sets unwanted precedents.

6. Claiming two hours overtime is petty in any position toward any kind of responsibility. I would not expect a manager to be paid or claim overtime. Shop floor/factory people fine. I'm presuming this isnt a Saturday job in a bike shop.

Would you be fine with paying someone for taking a three hour lunch break then?

7. I'm just putting an employers point across, one eyed or not, it's clear you're not exactly in a position to be considering from this angle.

It all sounds a bit juvenile and whingey to me; pissing about over a few hours and 'she likes them better than me'.

what would you do if they said no?

Sounds like you presented them with a request they had no option but to agree too, and now you're complaining?

What a strange thread this is with straw clutching to make some rather odd "points"

How very grown up of you and thankfully non "whingey"

HR departments advise management on HR issues - the changing of roles is an HR issue, avoiding things like constructive dismissal and trying to manage out an under performing employee is an HR issue.
On the points where you say 'no proof' etc, correct, as mentioned I'm putting across the other side of the argument. No proof for what the OP is saying, just his opinion.
If you think everyone gets paid overtime then clearly we're from different worlds.
Crikey put it in more simple terms for you.

Junkyard, you've appointed yourself the defender of the poor down trodden worker, but there just might be a different side to the story. I've lots of experience of this, and I don't think you have.

7. I'm just putting an employers point across, one eyed or not, it's clear you're not exactly in a position to be considering from this angle.

I Dont know what this means

What he's trying to say is that I don't have any experience of considering scenarios from an employers perspective. He's wrong. However, I've mostly worked for companies where a healthy employer/employee relationship is concomitant to success.

If you think everyone gets paid overtime then clearly we're from different worlds.

But if several people do get paid overtime [i]as in this case[/i], yet one of those is not actually allowed to take advantage of that fact, you don't see a problem?

time to close?

OP hope the fil is ok.

Crikey crikey, didn't Junkyard say he was a union rep? so perhaps some experience in this field?

and wrecker, kudos for that 'working to the clock' question.

Crikey crikey, didn't Junkyard say he was a union rep? so perhaps some experience in this field?

Hmmm, I've met lots of those too, some good, some less so.

The issues that this kind of thing present often don't reach Union reps, in my experience they end up grumbling along while I try to get on with my job.

Junkyard, you've appointed yourself the defender of the poor down trodden worker, but there just might be a different side to the story. I've lots of experience of this, and I don't think you have.

I'm not going to comment on other posts but just mention something somebody once said to me and really hit home. Regarding life you have to look at what's important to YOU, if that means money then by all means burn the midnight oil and try to get on, if it's travel then find a job which moves you around...if it's family then find a job which fits with them, one with flexible hours/home working etc... From what you've said your kids and extended family are (obviously) a big part of your life, and rightly so, and your time away now is only going to compound this. If it was me I'd be finding something which fit for me and my family, not those people that in two years you will have forgotten.

Be brave, be selfish and trust your gut. Hope everything with the old man is ok!

Unfortunately we don't have the other side of the story.

I wonder how that would read?

Your being performance managed out. All the tell tale signs are evident.

Keep your head down and apply for other stuff like mad!!

It may even help short term if you are (percieved) as being being pleasant and agreeable whilst you sort yourself out. Pushing back ( or at least creating this impression )may add fuel to the fire.

Important thing is to remember not to take it personally, and get out with your confidence and sanity intact.

Im willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt on this one

Ive spent the last 4 years working with an absolute nightmare of a boss, (also university- the HR departments are usually useless ime)
she was rude bordering on spitefull, objected to every bit of annual leave- she never took a single day herself and resented anyone else doing so!, petty in so many ways and regularly had meltdowns in the lab/office/tea room
the problem was that she pulled in a lot of grants and published well, in a time when funding is very very tight

my experience of similar situations has been good if you have a decent union rep/senior management/ HR department
as in wayward boss will get put in their place and be forced to grow up

and disastrous when you dont
as in employees forced out, entire team disbanded! breakdowns etc

my advice to the OP would be suck it up for now, secure another job, get the f out of there and hide a mackerell behind her filing cabinet on your last day

keep your chin up and do not stress over this out of work.

Your being performance managed out. All the tell tale signs are evident.

Keep your head down and apply for other stuff like mad!!

It may even help short term if you are (percieved) as being being pleasant and agreeable whilst you sort yourself out. Pushing back ( or at least creating this impression )may add fuel to the fire.

Important thing is to remember not to take it personally, and get out with your confidence and sanity intact.

Sound advice. The pendulum will swing when you get another role as you can then move into the "I am in this for the sport" approach which being skickly sweet, working to the minute and being throroughly lovely but firm creates a really confusing passive/aggresive situation. All because you don't need to care.

also worth keeping a (paper!!)written logbook at home ( and compiled at home!!)of the injustices that are occuring with dates and severity etc so you can get some perspective and view of the situation, without getting drawn into it further at work.

definately keep things written down

personally I made an effort to arrange everything by email, no matter how trivial it seems
any face to face meeting I would helpfully write up a summary and send to her (and anyone else involved) immediately after

I am also a manager as well as union rep

I had an ex union rep work for me once. PITA with all the same kind of 'would you pay me if i took a 3 hour lunch break' bs. Managed him out. I think he's still unemployed. I have a really enthusiast worker in his place who is progressing well due to his desire to do a little more, learn and not work to rule like some dinosaur from the 80's.

You point re lunch breaks is moot - I don't care how long peoples lunch breaks are as long as they deliver on their objectives. I don't care if they have to leave early one day for something. What I do care is that of their own volition they do whatever is required to ensure their work does not suffer (take a bit home, come in early next day etc). That kind of trust from an employer and responsibility from an employee may be alien to you with your work to rule mindset. In fact many of my staff don't take lunch breaks as they're engaged in their work which I hope they find rewarding. In fact I think you only really get that engagement when work is rewarding.

I think the point you are missing damo is that the manager in this case isnt treating all her staff equally

and from what the OP has said shes not following the T&Cs shes agreed to
just another case of a bad manager

In fact many of my staff don't take lunch breaks as they're engaged in their work which I hope they find rewarding. In fact I think you only really get that engagement when work is rewarding.

Or the department is really badly run and there is far to much work to do within the contracted hours.

O.P sounds like its time to move on. You are never going to turn this round. You're manager wants rid of you. Is it worth a battle? I doubt it, you need the reference (although at my place the only thing they will ever say on a reference is a confirmation of employment dates)
Start looking now, well in your lunch break.. And don't use company computers, Internet time.. Just in case they are looking for any excuse

I had an ex union rep work for me once. PITA with all the same kind of 'would you pay me if i took a 3 hour lunch break' bs.

That kind of trust from an employer and responsibility from an employee may be alien to you with your work to rule mindset.

In fact many of my staff don't take lunch breaks as they're engaged in their work which I hope they find rewarding.

landcruiser - Member

As your Manager / Boss the claiming the 2 hours thing would have pissed me off too. EDIT: Being flexible has to work BOTH ways.

Well, I guess realising you have a problem is the first step to fixing it 😉

The OP already HAS been flexible, they worked the extra hours as required. Expecting to be paid for extra work done is not inflexible!

Would you pay someone for not working then? Companies often expect work for nothing so it shows that it is all take and no give.

You keep harping on about this but when companies show flexibility then they are in effect doing just that. When I ignore somebody coming in late or leaving early or taking a long lunch etc then I am paying them for doing nothin in that instance. I take a broad approach. As above if they hit deadlines work hard and show flexibility when I/the company need it I dont care about a bit of time hear and there.

You on the other hand need it formalised and can only view flexibility when it is written down because as has been pointed out it is your "work to rule mindset" I on the other hand "know it when I see it" and so do my team. It has never caused conflict and they all know the "boundaries" if we have to write it down because somebody takes the piss then everybody loses and they all know that.
Writing things like this down just keep people like you in a cushy number.

If i work for two hours and my contract says i have two hours to take and my manager gives everyone two hours and me one how would you describe this as a management style or defend it.

Fine, as I said earlier if it is a more formal arrangement then where is the record? if it exists then it should be applied. Who keeps this record and why cant the OP access or refer to it?

And whilst we are boiling the whole issue down it appears to be a single hour we are talking about here.

All this over a couple of 'owed' hours? Jesus wept! 🙄

You appear to have 2 options

a) Look for another job, then leave.
b) Spend a lot of time whining about the injustice of it all, while the situation deteriorates further, before having a moment of clarity and resorting to a)

Binners I would add a c: based on the fact, well you never know!

Forget the hour owed. Think about what you can offer, work hard and change your mindset and make an effort to build a better relationship with your boss as I suspect you may be "unlucky" with your next one as well

Writing things like this down just keep people like you in a cushy number.

Did you read my post above?
I agree that flexibility from both sides with good management and good employees is the best approach....the scenario here seems to be lacking in much of this and that is why we have contracts and rules. It s for when folk fall out and the company made them so they should be able to stick to them.
I am not work to rule but I am not working for free just like they will not pay me to sit at home

Rather than this being about me - I did predict earlier folk would have a pop at me instead of discussing the issue

However you need to defend the giving everyone two hours but the OP one - which you accept is not fair

Imagine you were flexible with all employees but one - would you consider this good management?
What do you think that employee will do but return to the contract and moan.

TO repeat the blindingly obvious work is best when everyone is happy and we all get alaong. This involves flexibility and fairness on both sides
Do you think the manager is being fair here?competent?> reasonable?
No me neither

EDIT:

Forget the hour owed.

As i keep saying the flexibility is often unidirectional

Forget the hour owed. Think about what you can offer, work hard and change your mindset and make an effort to build a better relationship with your boss as I suspect you may be "unlucky" with your next one as well

Is he a shareholder? If the answer is no they why care. I work every hour under the sun, but the the company I work for promised (and just has) rewarded the employees with shares for their effort. The most important question anywhere is 'what's in it for me?' if the answer is 'nothing' then don't do it. Your employer wouldn't.

Rather than this being about me - I did predict earlier folk would have a pop at me instead of discussing the issue

More me, me, me stuff. Its not about you but you started with comments like this on page 1

You know sometimes I am ashamed to be on this site as no difficult personal issue seems off limits to trolling or half arsed reading if I want to be kind to you.
I am not bothering to feed any more of this
Pretty low IMHO so you can go OT and have a pop at me now as well

I've mentioned it twice and I'll try once more. Where is the traceability for this 2 hours if the process is formalised within the business?

but I am not working for free just like they will not pay me to sit at home

Answered this as well. That would mean reading though.

if the answer is 'nothing' then don't do it. Your employer wouldn't.

I dont think even the OP is working for "nothing" however he has a responsibility to create a better working environment. You wont do that by simply "working to rule" and viewing every task through this mindset.
You could but it would be an unhappy and unrewarding place to exist in. You have some responsibility if only for your own sanity.

surfer - Member

Forget the hour owed. Think about what you can offer

Too simple. One of the things the OP can offer is the flexibility of working extra hours, but it turns out, it gains them nothing. Now you can look at that as a single issue and forget it, maybe it is. But maybe it's a symptom in itself.

Maybe I'm being unfair and just judging by my own experiences but mainly what I think when I hear things like this is "taking for granted"- you do more and it's not noticed, or found fault with, you don't do more and it's the end of the world. Can't do right, in that situation. In this case, the OP's working extra hours has been turned into a negative. So faced with that it gets hard to be up for it.

I've mentioned it twice and I'll try once more. Where is the traceability for this 2 hours if the process is formalised within the business?

Why not explain what good management it is to give everyone present 2 hours and one employee one hour?
Please explain why you think he should let it go but the employer should not let the turning up late go?
Please explain how this is legal give the contract?
Please explain how this is good management?
Please explain how the employer is being flexible here?

he has a responsibility to create a better working environment. You wont do that by simply "working to rule" and viewing every task through this mindset.

They work for an organisation that makes rules and then they fail to follow them and then you accuse the employee of "work to rule" mindset. this is not give an take it is take and take some more whilst giving to every employee but you. Is this really good management? Do you really want to defend it?

Not really interested in the big hitter personal sarccy shit tbh lets just discuss the issue as i am happy for it not to be abiut me and I all i need is for you to not mention my "mindset"

From your description it would seem you are being managed out - take the hint and start to look for opportunities elsewhere. With one HR issue already behind you, and another now developing it would be foolhardy to expect that you would be able to continue on and develop successfully within your current role/business. You may want be naively principled and stick it out to prove your point/value/argument - but frankly only an idiot would do so. You have a short career - don't waste any more of it here and move on as soon as a good opportunity arises.

If someone causes the business hassle (you!) as with your previous HR issues and now this one; irrespective of whether your stance was justified people will not remember that you were correct - what gets remembered is that you were argumentative or caused friction within the team and were the focus of discontent. Being right is meaningless in this sense hence people should be very careful before picking fights requiring third party arbitration. Sucking up and dealing with bullshit is an important career skill.

Perhaps worth asking yourself whether you have had further issues in the past with your previous roles - as the common variable (i.e. the person) in a series of negative events is more often than not the root cause of such problems.

Perhaps try and look at the situation from the companies perspective before you ask or request owed benefits or additional flexibility. The most useless and minimally acceptable employees are those that do the bare minimum of their contractual requirements, work to rule and offer minimal flexibility to the employer. It reeks of no ambition and I would look to push the employee out at the first opportunity. Flexibility (for the benefit of the company - not you!) and the ability to be prepared to do a little extra unpaid may not get rewarded immediately but don't ever expect a promotion or a pay rise if that is your attitude.

I'd also mention that you should try never to bring your personal life to work in general.

In all I get the feeling that perhaps the best advice is best given by this NSFW video: [url=

Reid[/url]

Human nature - if you're good at your job your boss will be more flexible. If you're inefficient, unhelpful or difficult to work with, then your boss will be less flexible - especially where it's a less formal thing (rather than a formal clocking system).

We've only got one side of the story. Well apart from Junkyard who seems to know everything about the OPs situation...

I only know what is posted here and have made no assumptions - well I assumed folk would attack me rather than debate the issue....did i get that wrong?
We can guess at the mangers motivations for giving everyone TOIL and not the OP if you like but it wont make them a good, fair or legal manager.

well I assumed folk would attack me rather than debate the issue....did i get that wrong?

Still about you then 🙄

As neither side is being flexible both sides need to do what the contract says.

OK but all of your above post is obfuscation. You move the goalposts and you use terms interchangeably. If a contract exists or a process as I have said on 3 occasions where is it? You keep referring to it yourself so why doesnt the OP use it? Who tracks the hours? I have worked in place with flexi time and it has to be logged an monitored. why hasnt it happened in this case?

personal sarccy shit tbh

Although you were happy with it earlier.