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There’s an obvious answer
Let him have Monday off like he wants
Then let everyone else knock off early Tuesday because they had ‘worked the weekend’
His face should be a picture!
(And next year, make attendance compulsory without good excuse)
Are they? Depends on their contract T&Cs does it not?
You can’t just make people work more hours. Of course this is not work and absolutely a holiday but for the tax reasons it’s a team building day.
You can’t just make people work more hours.
Well as far as if they want to stay employed with a particular company you can. If you are salaried and your T&Cs does not allow for overtime and there is a clause in there about working additional hours when required. Happens to a lot of people.
They sound like a dick. Not for rejecting the pointless cringey timewasting nonsense that is teambuilding. I full respect them for having the nads to essentially say FU to that as most fold, moan to each other & endure it. But to miss the opportunity to be in the office alone for the day? sounds like bliss.
Of course this is not work and absolutely a holiday but for the tax reasons it’s a team building day.
Teambuilding events can be fun y'know.
I know it's a bit of a grey area but if it were a true benefit in kind the employees would just be sent to Milan with a partner.
Im amazed no-ones mentioned the carbon footprint / environmental impact of flying many people to central Europe for something that could be done within 30 mins drive what with this being the most virtuous forum in existence.
I shall report this wanton pollution to Greta Thunburg and watch her online army crush this company into oblivion with a tsunami of social media hate...
Though I can be silenced for a pair of Italian hand stitched loafers
Hang on, hang on. Who mentioned pub crawls? Who mentioned a man? Who mentioned getting drunk? And bet all the guesses you want. Last year we went to Berlin - nobody got drunk, we saw the sights, we went to the Holocaust Memorial and Brandenburg Gate, had nice food and saw Checkpoint Charlie.
Don’t judge others by your own standards matey boy.
Wow, some of you really are amazingly skilled at making something that’s designed to be a bit of fun into something sinister or abject torture…
I'm glad you're not my boss.
Well as far as if they want to stay employed with a particular company you can. If you are salaried and your T&Cs does not allow for overtime and there is a clause in there about working additional hours when required. Happens to a lot of people.
We want you to give up your weekend to go away to Milan to visit some sites and have some food.
Am I getting paid for this or getting time in lieu?
No but we’ll call team building
No, thanks I’d rather have the weekend off with my family.
Can’t see how you can fire anyone for that
Are they? Depends on their contract T&Cs does it not?
Nope - if it is considered work ( and as I said under the circumstances I think not) then not only are the entitled to TOIL but also compensatory rest as they would have been "at work" 80 hours straight
Working time directive
and those people with contracts that say " additional hours as required" still have rights under WTD. Many folk have Stockholm syndome 😉 and do not take up their rights but these are legally enforceable and cannot be opted or contracted out of.
Trip via airport with boss and colleagues you say?
I hear these are good fun.
https://www.gradko.com/forensics/products/detector-dog-training-aids/
Also, don't actually do what you might be thinking.
johndoh
Member
@swedishmetalHang on, hang on. Who mentioned pub crawls? Who mentioned a man? Who mentioned getting drunk? And bet all the guesses you want. Last year we went to Berlin – nobody got drunk, we saw the sights, we went to the Holocaust Memorial and Brandenburg Gate, had nice food and saw Checkpoint Charlie.
Don’t judge others by your own standards matey boy.
You mean you are enforcing sobriety on this weekend? ffs this is getting worse by the minute. 😆
You can either give them the day off they asked for, or refuse in which case you’re likely to revive a 1-2 day sickness absence later in the year as payback.
Personally I’d give them them the day off and avoid creating a problem for later.
You mean you are enforcing sobriety on this weekend? ffs this is getting worse by the minute.
+1
needs moar coke and hookers - and cowbell.
Defo a case for cruel and unusual punishment here. 😆
Well, some of the responses on here are as expected and quite frankly are unbelievable.
The OP is taking his staff for what seems a very generous short break to Milan and yet it seems this is bad and staff should be given TOIL as it's over the weekend when they shouldn't be working? WFT? Really?
It’s not a holiday OP says it’s a team building event.
Team building as in spending time together without having our heads in our laptops. We aren’t doing anything silly like raft making as I mentioned at the beginning. I’d say it’s more of an extended Christmas Party but, as we employ lots of younger people that don’t drink to excess, these events are much more relaxed. It has never been compulsory and it has always been well received. This particular request caught us by surprise and if I thought anyone viewed such a weekend as a chore then I’d stop doing it and take the extra profit from the business for myself...
Do you have good insurance? Anything could happen.......... LOL
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49662134
It’s not a holiday OP says it’s a team building event.
Team building, team bonding or cheeky short break - call it what you will. But ultimately it's a very generous gesture but for some, it seems, it's not enough.
as we employ lots of younger people that don’t drink to excess, these events are much more relaxed
****ing young people these days.
I'd be firing them all and replacing them with people who have hung on to the floor at least once - you can't trust them otherwise.
Is this self-entitled behaviour a one-off from this employee, or a pattern?
The idea that it's a holiday is complete bullshit.
As an example, my employer pays for something similar. The very first year I did it, I ended up chatting to someone from a completely different department who I never normally saw about AWS bills. Between us we realised that a tiny code change I'd been trying to get through some QA process would save us a gigantic amount of money. In the end just that one saving was enough to pay for everyone who went on the trip from my office (about 20 people at the time).
If they won't have anything useful to say or contribute at this event of yours, I would suggest they are not contributing much the rest of the time either.
The trip sounds very generous, and a great idea, and will benefit both staff and the company, I’m sure. If just one employee can’t go… it might be nice for them to feel they’re getting something as well… you don’t owe them anything, but if you’re treating all the other staff it seems odd not to do something for the one missing out.
If one person gets a holiday instead, then pretty soon everyone will decide they want a holiday instead.
It’s a weekend jaunt then indeed very generous but one person can’t make it. Maybe they don’t need the day off but maybe something like a vouchers for a spa day so they feel valued too might be an idea.
Young people who don’t drink in excess? How rare.
I’ve been waiting in this airport for nine hours now and I’m tired. It’s really hot in this animal suit.
Are we going or not?
TJ^^^ in fun sponge shocker. Narrow and strict legalistic views which suggest a degree of envy.
NHS SLTs undoubtedly 'endure' team building events - but maybe not in Milan - which are denied to ward staff but....get real.
Most people see these non-working events - and this one is clearly not work-based bonding - as a bit of a 'thank you' from the boss and treat them as as such; you know, give a little on both sides.
Those who attend will all find a way to get something out of the weekend.
As for the individual in question, by all means take a days leave on the Monday but it will be deducted from annual entitlement.
By their actions, the individual in question could cause the management to re-think/cancel any future events.
OP not being unreasonable.
Kelvin^^^ the individual has got a free weekend; isn't that enough for them?
A free weekend? I’ve misunderstood then. I thought they were being asked to work all the days they normally work, which is fair enough… but if the company is spending money on all the other staff, and they won’t be in the office that Monday… cut the guy some slack and do something for him… might not be the day off, but doing something for them might go someway towards to making them feel part of the company as well. The morning off? A lie in?
Most people see these non-working events – and this one is clearly not work-based bonding – as a bit of a ‘thank you’ from the boss and treat them as as such; you know, give a little on both sides.
Including TJ.
Kelvin - there's no I in team; employee in question either turns up on the Monday (but who will know) or takes a day's leave.
Drac - discussion closed, no?
there’s no I in team
But there is a me
Frank conway - how do you work that out from what I have posted? Or just your ideological hatred of anything to the left of Gengis Khan getting in the way again?
[quote="tj"]Well you know me as a boss baiter and I do not think he is doing owt wrong – even said it would be declared as a BIK for tax. An extra bone to the non attendee would be generous but whats offered is not a bad second best
I have no issue with what I have read that Johndoh has intended.
I think the actual issue is the definition of the Team Building you’ve provided. The rest of the team are not working together in an urban jungle environment, nor building introspective sales solutions. They are being paid flights and hotels to go and see sites and get pissed over a nice lunch.
Now, said employee isn’t entitled to a day off no. But, if they cant attend for personal reasons they are missing out on the reward that the rest of the team is being provided vis a vis you are alienating them and they are missing out on the reward.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest you’re investing time and money into the other members to enjoy themselves whilst this employee is unable to do so, and should be allowed a small token of their representative share.
Give them the day off and offer for them to expense a nice lunch with their SO whilst the rest of the team is doing the same in Milan. Theyve saved you a hotel and air fare after all.
Jeez - when did everybody get so damn ungrateful and ungracious?
If I could go, I'd go. Even if I wasn't keen on one or two of my fellow employees surely to goodness I can't dislike them all? (and if I do, then maybe the problem is me, not them?) Go, have a look around, enjoy some culture, sleep in a hotel for a night or two - what's not to love? And as a bonus maybe you get to think of a way to "better the company" or one of it's processes.
If I couldn't go - I'd turn up for work and, as mentioned above, enjoy a quiet day on my own in the office. Again, what's not to love? And as a bonus maybe I'd spot something that could improve the way the company works when everyone is not around.....
The Boss sounds like a decent guy.
Note: I don't blame the "lone remainer" for asking - if you don't ask you don't get, and the boss might have just said "yeah, why not" and that would have been that. I am suggesting though that if the answer was "It doesn't really work like that" then the lone-remainer should have said "OK Boss, no worries" and enjoyed the day on his own with his feet up pretending to be the big cheese.
Everyone could have scored here, and that's really the aim in Life isn't it?
Happy Days 🙂
Everyone could have scored here
With Tracey from accounts?
Fandango in Milan.
Whether it's enjoyable or not, a team event is a team event - work. The guy misses his work, why should he be rewarded with a day off?
Whether it’s enjoyable or not, a team event is a team event – work. The guy misses his work, why should he be rewarded with a day off?
Its not "work" though is it, its a piss up / sight seeing in Milan under the guise of "Team Building". We shouldn't he have a boozy lunch on the company as well?
And like I said, he's saved the company a couple of hundred pounds by default of his circumstances, just offer him a paid lunch and some down time, just like his colleagues are getting.
Or just your ideological hatred of anything to the left of Gengis Khan getting in the way again?
Genghis frequently organised foreign mini-breaks for his team. Don't think he ever made it as far as Milan, but I recall some rowdy behaviour in cities right across Asia. Work hard, party hard.
Lol @ Martin
What time is the return flight?
I don't want to miss it due to overindulgence. Me, Perchy and Martin from IT are a bit tipsy already
What happens in Milan, stays in Milan.....
Its not “work” though is it, its a piss up / sight seeing in Milan under the guise of “Team Building”.
Maybe it's team building under the guise of a nice trip? No rule that says work can't be fun !!
Split the difference and offer it as unpaid leave?
Is it normal to get paid your hourly rate on team building days? I've never been on one.
Is it normal to get paid your hourly rate on team building days? I’ve never been on one.
IME it's not normal to have them outside of work days. When we have them of an evening, karting etc, pub, its unpaid.