Forum menu
Am I being unreason...
 

[Closed] Am I being unreasonable? Employee wanting holiday in lieu of teambuilding event

Posts: 44816
Full Member
 

Drac - its just a jolly unless its compulsory attendance. Its not work if you don't have to go


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:39 pm
Posts: 15460
Full Member
 

So from a legal and financial perspective the company has sent several people on a mini-break (incidentally will they be covered by the company's insurance policy for this trip?), How much roughly per head is a weekend away in Milan? got to be at least £500ish right with flights and hotel?
Sort of starts to feels like a bonus/additional remuneration. But of course one, apparently awkward, person can't attend for personal reasons. I assume that individual contributed to whatever performance earned the rest of their team this little jolly?
And the majority of the team are not in work on the Monday because they're on a free holiday paid for by the company... Will you all be claiming leave or calling that Monday "travelling for work"?

I don't know, all of a sudden that extra day off doesn't sound quite such an unreasonable request TBH...


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:41 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Aye next time, just add the 500 quid to every ones pay packet. Job jobbed, team built! 😆


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:45 pm
Posts: 28712
Full Member
 

Poor bloke was trying to do something nice for his workers and somehow he's now the big bad boss dragging them away from an hour's swimming lesson for his kid followed by sitting drinking cans of cheap bitter arguing on the internet about whether a winter bike is just for winter or whether soul and funk are different things.

Miserable sods


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:46 pm
 Drac
Posts: 50619
 

Drac – its just a jolly unless its compulsory attendance. Its not work if you don’t have to go

Then the staff need to pay BIK and Johndoh can’t claim the tax back as apparently it’s not work related.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:46 pm
 Del
Posts: 8282
Full Member
 

Bloody hell. Alternatively the boss could sack off the whole idea, take himself and a few friends away instead, and roll in when he bloody feels like it on Monday.
Edit: weeksy+1!


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:47 pm
 Drac
Posts: 50619
 

Poor bloke was trying to do something nice for his workers and somehow he’s now the big bad boss dragging them away from an hour’s swimming lesson for his kid followed by sitting drinking cans of cheap bitter arguing on the internet about whether a winter bike is just for winter or whether soul and funk are different things.

He still can.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:50 pm
Posts: 14543
Free Member
 

What about travel insurance?


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:50 pm
Posts: 27
Free Member
 

are you all accountants or auditors?

can I come to Milan? you won't have to pay me a salary and I'm not bothered whether I'm insured / taxed or MOT'ed.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 2:56 pm
Posts: 28593
Free Member
 

can I come to Milan? you won’t have to pay me a salary and I’m not bothered whether I’m insured / taxed or MOT’ed.

As long as you can provide at least 10 positive suggestions for the future of the company, and a willingness to dress up in an animal suit, I don't see why that would be a problem.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:02 pm
Posts: 17313
Free Member
 

As long as you can provide at least 10 positive suggestions for the future of the company, and a willingness to dress up in an animal suit, I don’t see why that would be a problem.

I'm in.

I have my own outfit.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:05 pm
Posts: 1125
Free Member
 

....and this is why we cant have nice things anymore. OP, you sound like a mint boss-wish my employer would take me on a trip to Milan


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:12 pm
Posts: 14543
Free Member
 

It'll end up like this:


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:13 pm
Posts: 44816
Full Member
 

Well you know me as a boss baiter and I do not think he is doing owt wrong - even said it would be declared as a BIK for tax. An extra bone to the non attendee would be generous but whats offered is not a bad second best

I have no issue with what I have read that Johndoh has intended.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:15 pm
Posts: 899
Free Member
 

By the sounds of it, don't take the boring suck ups as paid sad mates - give the ballsy person a paid day off and a mini promotion, take perchypanther instead as that would be a ball. Job done.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:16 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

If its not compulsory then its not work. Its as simple as that IMO

Thanks, I will remember that and not pay anyone next time I ask for volunteers to do some weekend overtime 👍

“Sorry, TJ said it’s not work because it wasn’t compulsory, take it up with him”


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:19 pm
Posts: 17313
Free Member
 

Well you know me as a boss baiter

You’re a master at it.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:19 pm
Posts: 14543
Free Member
 

Perchy is not a real person, it's an AI comedy-bot.

Rumour has it that it is a B&Q website help-bot gone rogue after too much machine learning


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:21 pm
 Del
Posts: 8282
Full Member
 

S****


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:22 pm
Posts: 17313
Free Member
 

Perchy is not a real person, it’s an AI comedy-bot.

Here I am, brain the size of a planet....


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:23 pm
Posts: 17334
Full Member
 

Whatever you do, be sure to visit the Alfa Romeo museum. Even non-petrolheads like my wife loved it.

And it's work. Otherwise it's a benefit in kind. The ones travelling are entitled to time off in lieu (or over-time) if they do not normally work weekends. When I travel of a weekend for business, I claim the time as work - OK seven hours sat in business class isn't exaclt hard, but I normally am working - even on the Sunday corporate bus to PHL.

You aren't being unreasonable. If the person can't attend for personal reasons, but would have liked to (caring for a relative for example), then I'd be nice to them and bring them back something meaningful. If they like Alfa's - even better!


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:24 pm
Posts: 12336
Full Member
 

Rumour has it that it is a B&Q website help-bot gone rogue after too much machine learning

PurchasePlanter


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:26 pm
Posts: 28593
Free Member
 

You aren’t being unreasonable. If the person can’t attend for personal reasons, but would have liked to (caring for a relative for example), then I’d be nice to them and bring them back something meaningful. If they like Alfa’s – even better!

Any kind of Alfa memorabilia would lead to an almost instantaneous breakdown in your working relationship.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:26 pm
Posts: 17313
Free Member
 

PurchasePlanter

Hi! It looks like you're trying to buy Paint for your Porch....Would you like to me to bollocks it up for you?


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:28 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I work away from home a fair bit, and would not be particularly interested in a 'team building' event over a weekend anywhere, i'd rather spend it with my wife and kids.
If i did go, i'd view it as work and would expect TOIL for the days i worked over the weekend.
As for the guy who isn't going - its a normal working day for him, as the others are travelling in working hours.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:29 pm
Posts: 18211
Full Member
 

….and this is why we cant have nice things anymore. OP, you sound like a mint boss-wish my employer would take me on a trip to Milan

This. Cheeses cripes! 😐


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:41 pm
Posts: 46109
Full Member
 

PurchasePlanter

PaintyPunter

As for Milan, sounds like my last work trip. An EU funded 'cultural and learning exchange' combined with 'transnational meeting' for 6 days in Florence with a group of teachers.

TeamScotland has me sworn to secrecy and no online pictures of the 'team debrief' each evening - done with Aperol Spritzers, TeamSlovakia has a hotel with roof terrace which they used to watch sunset and sunrise with a home made made bar... We won't divulge anything about TeamSpain, far too Catholic.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:41 pm
Posts: 14543
Free Member
 

Given the recent revelation, I think it's more PorchyPainter than PerchyPanther


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 4:40 pm
Posts: 989
Free Member
 

Asking the employee to work the Monday is not unreasonable.

Asking your team to give up their weekend to visit a hell-hole like Milan probably is though 🙂

As for the BIK comments, I'd assume the company is making a voluntary settlement on the employees behalf as I doubt the annual £150 exemption is going to cover it!


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 4:52 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

If the rest of the “team” aren’t working on the Monday why should this bloke? If the rest of the team aren’t doing any productive work which aligns with their job role why should he?
I don’t understand the need to stay at office and answer phones, if he went on the jolly who would answer them then?

I can’t think of anything worse than a weekend away watching my work colleagues get drunk 24hrs a day, sounds like misery. And I bet they won’t be doing anything worth travelling all that way for eg museums, countryside stuff, historical buildings etc.

I’d rather spend the time with my family and friends, and I get on with my colleagues really well. I don’t understand this need to have work nights out all the time. If you can build a team without needing to go out on pub crawls you need to take a long hard look at yourself/company.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 6:19 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Are you REALLY aware of your responsibilities as an employer?

Hope you have good insurance.........!!! LOL

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/12/world/europe/france-sex-work-accident.html


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 6:41 pm
Posts: 58
Free Member
 

To me its obvious, jolly to say thank you to the team, no extra tax will be paid by anyone, creative accounting will write it all of. I bet everyone is gagging to go, I would and like perchy I have a costume (elephant). Maybe the non attendee genuinely can't go and is gutted, so just give the poor sod the day of. Just make sure everyone takes loads of photos of everyone having a brill time and taunt them with them for the next couple of weeks.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:18 pm
Posts: 14543
Free Member
 

Can we all come with you?


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:25 pm
Posts: 28
Free Member
 

Grant them the extra day off, but with the stipulation that every waking moment of the day off must be spent with all of their colleagues, as this is what the rest of the team is getting.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:49 pm
Posts: 8948
Free Member
 

I'd go in and use the day to subtly plant stuff in people's desks to make it look like one or other of you is a thief to create discord and unpick all the good work from the team building weekend.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:51 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
Posts: 836
Full Member
 

It's a normal working day.  Technically there's probably justification for giving those who did attend time off in lieu.  Just to piss off the one left out!


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:54 pm
Posts: 9205
Full Member
 

@swedishmetal- Tell me, have you read any of the responses on this thread?


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:57 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I can absolutely see both sides.

I think they're being a bit cheeky asking for the day off - everyone else is doing company related activities.

That said I can see why they'd be a bit narked if for personal reasons (duties or prior engagements rather than hating Brian from accounts, I assume) they can't make what sounds like a nice weekend away and they feel they're not getting rewarded like everyone else.

So I think you're absolutely within your rights to just tell them to be in, but if you decide to let them have Monday off, make it absolutely clear it's a reward in lieu of the weekend away not any sort of entitlement. It will make them happier, just like the weekend away will make everyone else happier.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 8:12 pm
 benv
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

The ones travelling are entitled to time off in lieu (or over-time) if they do not normally work weekends.

Are they? Depends on their contract T&Cs does it not?


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 8:13 pm
Posts: 650
Free Member
 

There is a theory about AI... Known as rampancy. Just sayin'...


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 8:31 pm
Posts: 899
Free Member
 

There's a real difference of opinion with regards to the actual weekend. Some think the idea of spending a straight 12 days with work colleagues an exciting and rewarding experience..... Personally I'd do everything to avoid such. Don't mind seeing them during, you know, work but in my time off?? I'd regard that as punishment.

I don't work in sales or IT.....


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 8:35 pm
Posts: 20985
 

Wow, some of you really are amazingly skilled at making something that’s designed to be a bit of fun into something sinister or abject torture...

If your own boss had said ‘right, I’m having a party at my villa on the Rivera this weekend, all expenses paid, I’d like you all there/who wants to come?’ How many of you would start talking about BIK or travel insurance?

Motives could well be the same, just without ‘team building’ mentioned


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 8:41 pm
Posts: 6581
Free Member
 

How many of you would start talking about BIK or travel insurance?

I wouldn't. I would say no thanks though.


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 8:52 pm
Posts: 899
Free Member
 

It's not a party though is it? A party is something entirely different. Can I bring the wife or my bike? No, you're with Nigel, from accounts, or Brenda from sales. Or worse, somebody has to spend the weekend with me, and I'm truly awful company. Indeed if you took me away to Milan for the weekend, you'd not see me again until the airport on Monday, where I'd be very, very hungover. I'd be exploring for a solid 48 hours, not having forced fun with Brenda or Nigel


 
Posted : 12/11/2019 9:05 pm
Page 3 / 8