Sorry for the mumsnet type post, but I am feeling rather hacked off.
* We are recruiting another lawyer to our department.
* I know someone who is suitable, made it known to the department and started email chat with the potential candidate, including sending over a job spec. They confirmed they were interested.
* A few days after I started this, the recruitment consultant we had engaged sent over some CVs, including the CV of the person I was already in contact with. I hadn't yet obtained their CV.
* Apparently the candidate told the rec con that she was already in dicussions with someone about the role internally, but the rec con said he would send over her CV anyway.
My company is taking the view that it's the CV which counts as the "referral", meaning the rec con is going to be paid for referring someone I was already in discussions with AND I lose out on a pretty significant referral sum myself (which is what this is about really : )
Is this unfair or am I just being bitter? How can we pay a rec con for referring someone who was already in discussions with us?
[i]or am I just being bitter? [/i]
This, but you're a Lawyer so:
1 We don't care
2 See 1
Seems unfair. Employer should prefer to pay referral to staff than externally....., however is there a formal referral policy ? In our place there is, and people need to follow it. From the other perspective, employer needs to keep in with Agency as they will have a relationship, negotiated rates and rules.
Not clear cut
This, but you're a Lawyer so:1 We don't care
2 See 1
🙂
I posted on this 18 months ago. I worked with people from a certain company for several years, due to them being engaged at the same site as me. That company gets bought out by a big one, who I then go and work for a couple of years later. My manager suggests I fill in the employee referral form and nominate one of the guys I worked with because you have to nominate someone.
He unexpectedly got £3.5k, and pocketed it all. Despite not having been responsible for my employment. Bit annoyed still.
I'm quite surprised that your firm prefers to pay externally, but yes, I'd say you have every right to be a little aggrieved!
My place encourages referrals, but will not pay any bonus as it could be construed as unfair favouritism for that person getting the job....!!!
It would all depend on wether you followed the companies referral policy or not.
Do they have a policy, and did you follow it ?
Did you or did you not secure the persons CV? If you didn't you had a nice chat with someone.
WTF this really happens....Talk about money for nothing 😯
Do you have any idea how much it costs to recruit someone? It's a small part of the total cost, and far better than giving £10k+ to a recruitment agency!
Are you at work on STW by any chance? 🙂
far better than giving £10k+ to a recruitment agency!
and the rest!
Sue your employer. That'll teach 'em.
You're being bitter. You may have had a chat with the candidate, but the agency beat you to it on actually submitting their CV for the appointment. You snooze, you lose.
You're being bitter. You may have had a chat with the candidate, but the agency beat you to it on actually submitting their CV for the appointment. You snooze, you lose.
The more I think about it, the more I am realising that this is the answer. I'm pissed off at myself 🙂
I still think it was unprofessional of the rec con to not bother calling or emailing us to discuss the fact that he was planning on sending in a CV for someone we were already in discussions with. My boss seems to agree on that point, so it seems unlikely that he will get any more work from us. First time we have used these guys and not been particularly impressed so far.
My company is taking the view that it's the CV which counts as the "referral"
Should have read the small print. Recruitment consultant done you like a kipper.
🙂
Yes, you're being massively unreasonable. I'd sack you myself for being so slack. Call yourself a lawyer? 🙂
😛
I still think it was unprofessional of the rec con to not bother calling or emailing us to discuss the fact that he was planning on sending in a CV for someone we were already in discussions with.
[devils advocate]
He probably asked if they had already submitted a CV.
They said they hadn't been asked for one so he thought .....
"They haven't applied yet then, and they are perfect for the job, it would be unprofessional of me NOT to put them forward for it"
[/devils advocate]
My boss seems to agree on that point, so it seems unlikely that he will get any more work from us. First time we have used these guys and not been particularly impressed so far.
In which case your firm has nothing to lose by confirming that you were already in discussions with the candidate and telling the rec con to [scouse] do one [/scouse].
[devils advocate]
He probably asked if they had already submitted a CV.
They said they hadn't been asked for one so he thought .....
"I best get in there quick or they going to think we're not very good and I won't be paid silly money for emailing a document"
[/devils advocate]
At risk of teaching a grandmother to suck eggs, if the consultant has met the requirements to be paid their fee under the contract, then your firm will need to pay up and therefore there is no saving, which is what finances the internal referral fee.
Recruitment consultants are aggressive chancers, what kind of lawyer are you FFS, mtfu and fight, the answer is in what you told us the consultant has no valid claim if candidate told them they were already in contact. Tell your mate to inform consultant they no longer act for them.
There’s a lot of misinformation on this thread. It actually boils down to one simple issue: Who did the candidate want and ask to represent them? If they told the recruitment agency that you were representing them then the Rec Agency does not have a leg to stand on. It doesn’t matter a jot who got the CV in first if the person who got there first was not actually authorised to act on behalf of the candidate.
At risk of teaching a grandmother to suck eggs, if the consultant has met the requirements to be paid their fee under the contract, then your firm will need to pay up and therefore there is no saving, which is what finances the internal referral fee.
Bullshit.
The issue here is not the contract between the Agency and the Employer, it is between the Agency and the candidate. An agency cannot just lay claim to the candidate like a piece of meat, if the Candidate does not want to be represented by the agency then end of story.
At risk of teaching a grandmother to suck eggs, if the consultant has met the requirements to be paid their fee under the contract, then your firm will need to pay up and therefore there is no saving, which is what finances the internal referral fee.
Technically he hasn't done anything outside of his scope, he asked the candidate if he could send her CV and she said yes (without thinking about the additional cost on our part) but, it just seems a bit underhand that they knew one of the candidates was already in contact with us and didn't phone/email to discuss before slipping her CV through the door.
Perhaps I was naive in thinking that someone who wants to work for us in the long term would try to piss us off on their first job?
Recruitment consultants are aggressive chancers, what kind of lawyer are you FFS, mtfu and fight, the answer is in what you told us the consultant has no valid claim if candidate told them they were already in contact. Tell your mate to inform consultant they no longer act for them.
I'm assuming you're familiar with our consultant's terms of engagement?
Recruitment consultants are aggressive chancers, what kind of lawyer are you FFS, mtfu and fight, the answer is in what you told us the consultant has no valid claim if candidate told them they were already in contact. Tell your mate to inform consultant they no longer act for them.
HR director's getting a cut from the agency. They all do. 😉
Just make it clear that you won't be referring anyone again.
Your mate's fault, I reckon.
Recruitment agents won't submit cv's without the candidates approval, precisely to stop this situation when a role is advertised with multiple agencies. He shouldn't have allowed it to go forward.
Your mate's fault, I reckon.
Probably my fault for not saying "whatever you do, don't now approach us via a rec con, it will cost us an extra £15k"
I'm surprised she didn't realise, but it's the first time she has dealt with a rec con, so probably didn't think.
I'm surprised she didn't realise, but it's the first time she has dealt with a rec con, so probably didn't think.
Aah yes, if she'd not dealt with the slimy wee buggers previously she wouldn't have known.
Been caught out before, where had a cv go out with a rate on it the agency says they can't be bettered, then seen it advertised later on with a better rate at another agency. Nothing you can do about it really, first past the post.
My anger has now changed to frustration at myself for not being quicker and disappointment that I now won't be building an Evil Undead 🙁
Apparently the candidate told the rec con that she was already in dicussions with someone about the role internally, but the rec con said he would send over her CV anyway.
Did the candidate ask the agency to represent them or not?
Never mind that the reccon said he's send the cv anyway, did the candidate agree for them to represent her?
Did the candidate ask the agency to represent them or not?
Never mind that the reccon said he's send the cv anyway, did the candidate agree for them to represent her?
As far as I am aware:
Candidate was already on the rec con's books, looking for work for a couple of months.
I emailed and sent job spec, candidate confirmed to me she was interested. My next email was going to be asking for her CV.
However, the next email was from her again, saying that just after our last email she had been approached about the same role by her rec con, who had offered to submit her CV for it despite being told that she was already speaking to us, she agreed without thinking of cost implications.
On reflection, I snoozed and lost, she should perhaps have thought of the cost implications, I should have told her not to deal with rec con after our initial conversation, rec con acted a bit underhand by not contacting us before submitting a CV of someone we were dealing with.
You live and learn eh 🙂 An expensive lesson in recruitment for me!
My what a different world I seem to live in!
So companies charge 15k for handing someone a CV?
Pretty much.
There isn't really another way to find specialised people though. If you find one then you'd be a very very very rich man 🙂
Plus, dealing with recruitment in house can make considerable demands on resources/time, things that you don't have, otherwise you wouldn't be hiring!
So companies charge 15k for handing someone a CV?
Kind of, but not quite - you do have to get hold of the CVs in the first place, and figure out who's a joker and who's a good candidate.
Is anyone else reading this and just thinking they're very happy not to exist in a world of petty smallprint and backstabbing? Sounds just like playground nonsense but with lots of other people's money.
Which isn't to say that I'm not sorry you missed out, of course I am, but what a horrible way to have to be.
That was sort of my point pedro.
I was feeling pretty happy that I had found someone suitable for our team without to deal with/pay recruitment consultants and making myself a decent bonus, but then I felt shafted after my own discussions with the person were interrupted by a recruitment consultant. I know how to deal with them in future now though, lesson learned.
End of the day the consultant makes his money on commission. If you had the option to take a cheeky punt for a slice of 15k or sit back, which would you do?
I'd be banging that CV across every time!
As a Recruitment Manager with 8 years external and internal experience I should probably chip in....
The recruitment company are trying it on. You're already in discussion with the candidate. They can't introduce someone to you you already have opened discussions with. The CV is an introduction thing is a red herring. Maybe in their T&Cs but not in reality!
Liking the standard tosh above about recruiters. 15k for emailing a CV? Yes, that's exactly how it works....!
What do you call a thousand lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
A good start.
What do you call a thousand lawyers at the bottom of the sea?A good start.
Charming. What contribution do you make to society jon?
I drive past at least one hospital, three schools every morning which I did the legals for, not to mention part of the motorway I actually drive on.
My mum had an operation in a wing of a hospital which I did the legals for, that felt quite good, pretty glad I wasn't on the bottom of the ocean that day.
Not looking for a medal, but I reckon I'm more useful to society in the office than I would be at the bottom of the ocean.
A good start would be you getting some decent/new joke material.
edlong - MemberYou're being bitter. ... [b] You snooze, you lose.[/b]
Okay ... "you snooze, you lose" ... okay ...
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You have spoken to the candidate first Not the consulting firm, so you should be credited for. Not them. They are merely trying on the dirty tricks ...
