[Closed] Advanced driving

Respect to you for being willing to admit it. IAM can by useful if a little pious at times. No experience of the other though.

I did the IAM training and it really opens your eyes to how you drive. It was about 10 years ago and I still try to maintain what I learned. I think the biggest thing I took from it was reading the road better, better positioning etc.
One of the big things they did when I did it was talking all the way through your journey. Describing the road surface, signs etc which really focuses your driving.
I'd say go for it. You'll be surprised how much you can improve, even if you think you're a good driver.

No experience of either, sorry, but my perception is that IAM is to at least some extent about bragging rights - members of IAM seem to need to make sure that everyone knows they are, talking about it a lot, putting little badges on the front of the car etc.

I reckon there's a big intersection on the Venn Diagram of members of IAM and MENSA.

Do they teach you how to stop being annoyed by all the ----s on the motorway?

May I suggest a third option - learn to ride a motorbike. It'll totally alter the way you perceive things on the road. You learn a load of the IAM techniques without being talked down to and you don't have to sit there and hear how crap a driver you are which can be demeaning, even if they are correct.

Depends on what you mean by 'can't drive for toffee'. If you genuinely don't think you can drive for toffee then maybe BSM, or equivalent, might be a better option to refresh basic driving skills. The advanced motoring is really there to coach advanced driving techniques rather than teach basic driving skills and roadcraft. It'd be like turning upto an MTB jumps and drops skills course with stabailisers on your bike not being able to ride on two wheels.

May I suggest a third option - learn to ride a motorbike

This +1

I also did a free advanced motorbike course run by Cambridgeshire traffic police. I learnt the most from that.

Still drove like a complete tw** mind, but I was much safer on a bike....

I've done a few courses over the years for work. Some internal ones but also a couple of the normal public ones.

The IAM course I did about 15 years ago, although some friends have done it recently and have the same feelings.

It is very good at helping you read the road and look for hazards. It helps explain the mechanisms of good safe progress and will pin point any nasty habits people have.
Definitely worth doing, They used to do a free evaluation drive within the local group.

Don't know the other one the OP mentions.

The other one I've done is HPC, but that's a course for after the IAM one. Also I believe the way HPC work has changed since I did it many years ago.

Go for a taster with a local IAM assessor. They are sometimes free (gave my dad a voucher for one and it was very beneficial), and will point you in the right direction for further help. I disagree with wobbliscott, anyone who has passed the basic driving test would benefit from advanced driving/road craft concepts.

I tried to get info from my local IAM organisation a while back; they never returned my emails. Clearly don't want my money.

+n for motorbike lessons. Your observation and hazard perception will go up dramatically (and skills are directly transferable to a road bike, bonus).

IAM or ROSPA are the typical ones people go to.

I did IAM and it was a good laugh. As much about safely making progress as being a defensive driver. We did track days and all sorts as a group.

I did a few things through work including a commentary drive with ex police guy and an IAM half day. If you are receptive to constructive advice etc go for it, I learnt loads and use lots of it daily -

Like joining a queue, you 'collect' the traffic behind by slowing early thereby reducing that chance of someone crashing into you to almost 0

Looking for escape routes from those rolling back/approaching from behind

Turning right - keep the wheels straight so a crash from behind doesn't turn into a side impact with oncoming traffic

Adjusting speed around a bend - if the point the verge disappears starts getting closer to you, slow up, if its extending away, speed up.

Yup, I am IAM and trained in other driving techniques through work. 😀
It is a good skill, the course certainly gives you confidence and skills the basic driver can use.

The biggest plus (for me) is (was) learning to use your observation skills.

The other courses you can't learn on public roads 🙂

cheaper option is to get done for mild speeding and do a speed awareness course 🙂 gives you much better awareness, reading of hazards and makes you a safer (better) driver, all IMO of course 🙂

Mrs S has written off more cars than me, had more accidents than me, has had more points on her license and drives about 25000 miles a year less than me!

Guess which one of us has passed the full IAM course 🙂

Actually, thats not a reflection of the course as the bits I've heard about seem actually worthwhile and positive.

Have got IAM for car & bike if you believe that you could benefit from some advanced training and you're not the World's Greatest Driver then you'll be in the right frame of mind and find it useful

spooky_b329 - Member

I did a few things through work including a commentary drive with ex police guy and an IAM half day. If you are receptive to constructive advice etc go for it, I learnt loads and use lots of it daily -

Like joining a queue, you 'collect' the traffic behind by slowing early thereby reducing that chance of someone crashing into you to almost 0

Looking for escape routes from those rolling back/approaching from behind

Turning right - keep the wheels straight so a crash from behind doesn't turn into a side impact with oncoming traffic

Adjusting speed around a bend - if the point the verge disappears starts getting closer to you, slow up, if its extending away, speed up.

I've looked at doing the IAM course a few times. In fact, one of my New Yrs resolution last year was to do the course this year - oops.
One of the things that keeps putting me off it is how much of it is just common sense that you already do....?

All of those pointers that spooky mentions above are things that I already do. Perhaps some of it is from flicking through books like roadcraft etc, dunno.
I don't consider myself to be a particularly great driver, but I try to remain vigilant, try to anticipate what others might do (and/or expect me to do) and look further down the road than the end of my bonnet.

I think I'll try and fit some kind of course in next year. Given how many miles I do commuting, it can't be a bad idea.

I did IAM training a long time ago. It was good for the observational stuff, but zero use for actual driving technique. Worth doing I'd say if driving more safely is your main goal. They really are the Captain Sensibles of the motoring world, but it does seem to attract some proper self-righteous bellends too, so be warned!

If you want to improve your actual driving technique, then track based motorsport courses are a much better bet and a lot more fun. Even though they are obviously focused on driving fast round a track, you'd be surprised how much it helps your normal road driving too.

how much of it is just common sense that you already do

Worthwhile if only to post sanctimonious comments on STW driving threads

I did a couple of lessons with an IAM guy, however we had to agree to disagree about 'making progress' and I stopped. The rest of the information was good though, a lot of what spooky learned

I've done the IAM course. Overall I thought it was really worthwhile and taught me a lot. My only real gripe with the course was that you are expected to stick rigidly to the speed limits. I'm not going to get into a debate about the rights or wrongs of speeding, but I did expect the course to teach more about 'making progress'....which is difficult to do when you're traveling slower than the rest of the traffic on the road! Road positioning, reading the road, anticipation, smoother, and more considerate driving are all useful skills to have though.

Rob,

I've done the IAM & highly rate it. Made me a much safer driver (at all speeds)
Surely "safer" = "better"
+1 for all the motorcycle comments, but that's a brave step if you're not that way inlcined already.

They'll be a local IAM affiliated group near you - go & talk to them.
Some of the guys there will be "special" for sure, but there will be plenty of the rest too - you'll be surprised.

Since you admit you're "not the greatest" there's nothing to lose - they won't make you any worse =))

I did IAM for bikes and it was mostly good- well actually, the training, observed rides etc were excellent, the organisation itself, quite often pretty terrible. I had to sit on a waiting list for a year before anything happened at all but I had to pay a year's subscription for that, frinstance. No communications, no nothing. But still worth it.

I'm kind of assuming it's roadcraft rather than the actual mechanical skills of driving?

My only real gripe with the course was that you are expected to stick rigidly to the speed limits

we had to agree to disagree about 'making progress' and I stopped.

what was the disagreement, out of interest?

My only real gripe with the course was that you are expected to stick rigidly to the speed limits.

rocketman - Member

Depends on your definition of common sense. Some people come out of it like it's been a course in sorcery others such as yourself find it reinforces what you already know and do

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Some people seem to have no common sense and it seems like every time they sit in a car is the first time they have sat in a car....used to lift share with a colleague who's driving is terrible, but just the other day he was telling me what a good driver he is....
I did a speed awareness course last year 😳 and I was surprised at the amount of people who didn't know some of the really basic stuff.

rocketman - Member
Worthwhile if only to post sanctimonious comments on STW driving threads

Ooooh, where do I sign!! 😀

iainc - Member

well it is a formal course and the speed limit is the Law, so they would be able to do anything else, without flagrantly inviting prosecution surely...

On the Bikesafe course I did (run by the Police) I got told off for legality. "I don't want to see you riding like you normally would when there's a copper behind you, I want to see how you actually ride."

It's the free gift bluetooth earpiece and action slacks that's selling it to me

Seconded riding a motorbike for a couple of years. If you're still alive you'll have learned all the defensive driving and roadcraft you'll ever need.

I did the IAM training course and after a few sessions they put me in for a mock test. After a couple of miles the bloke told me to stop and then told me that although my technique was impeccable, I wasn't driving to "the system" and would therefore fail. "The system" means going through the same sequence of actions in response to every road hazard, enetering or leaving the sequence as necessary at any stage.

I gave up.

my dilemma was that I was expected to make progress through slower traffic as it was deemed the sensible and safe thing to do. Fine, I drove at the time a Triumph Spitfire, producing a mighty maybe 60bhp, with equally unimpressive brakes. It made making progress difficult and stressful. my instructor drove a BMW 325. He did not think "going with the flow" of traffic" was safe or proper driving.

we agreed to disagree.

My only real gripe with the course was that you are expected to stick rigidly to the speed limits

I was pulled up on my Police Assessed bike ride for sticking to the speed limit overtaking, I was told to use the full power of the bike and just roll back the throttle once you're back in your lane. So spent 2 hours blatting around Cambs at 100+ with a Police bike on my tail - was quite a surreal experience...

What is this 'making progress' thing I hear so much about? Is it mainly about making progress faster than the car in front of you?

I've done the IAM course... My only real gripe with the course was that you are expected to stick rigidly to the speed limits

I was pulled up on my Police Assessed bike ride for sticking to the speed limit overtaking, I was told to use the full power of the bike and just roll back the throttle once you're back in your lane

Amazes me how much linkage there is on this post bewteen 'advanced driving' and blatantly breaking the law. Seems to me that an awful lot of folk need a reality check. Exceeding the speed limit is a legal offence, end of.

was pulled up on my Police Assessed bike ride for sticking to the speed limit overtaking, I was told to use the full power of the bike and just roll back the throttle once you're back in your lane. So spent 2 hours blatting around Cambs at 100+ with a Police bike on my tail - was quite a surreal experience.

Have had this exact experience during police rider training. There's nothing quite as odd as a senior traffic officer shouting at you over an intercom "FASTER FASTER FASTER!" as you blast across moorland.

Exceeding the speed limit is a legal offence, end of.

A camera sees it this way, the police do not.

Police riders and drivers are I'm sure trained to drive faster for emergencies, but how does that transfer across to Joe Public on the open highway ?

hot_fiat - Member
May I suggest a third option - learn to ride a motorbike. It'll totally alter the way you perceive things on the road. You learn a load of the IAM techniques without being talked down to and you don't have to sit there and hear how crap a driver you are which can be demeaning, even if they are correct.

Great suggestion! MissisRob would agree wholeheartedly as she's been riding a sports bike for 15ish years and reckons her powers of observation and spatial awareness are akin to a sixth sense.

I've always been of the opinion that I'd die pretty quickly if I had a motorbike, hence never bothering; after seeing my driving MrsR told me I'm NEVER allowed to have a motorbike - good that we agree :mrgreen:. Scramblers, on the other hand, are currently on the "To buy" list.

I think I'd benefit massively from both the stuffy-do-it-this-way nerdiness of IAM and learning how to handle a car on a track, so will be investigating both.

skills are directly transferable to a road bike

Don't ride one any more - got run over too many times :/

And yes, once it was a 50:50 blame/responsibility the others I was 100% the victim 🙂

Amazes me how much linkage there is on this post bewteen 'advanced driving' and blatantly breaking the law. Seems to me that an awful lot of folk need a reality check. Exceeding the speed limit is a legal offence, end of.

The reality is that a LOT of people regularly exceed speed limits, probably most from what I see. We've got one of those recording speed cameras in our little village and the average speed recorded over a month was 38 mph (in a 30 limit) and that's with the deterrent of a big flashing sign. Not a big surprise really. Then there's the motorway. If you sit at 70 mph at least half the traffic will be overtaking you and all you will be overtaking are lorries and the odd Micra.

FWIW I routinely speed on motorways (usually sit at 80-85 leptons) but will never speed in a 30 mph zone. Lock me up and throw away the key.

iainc - Member

Amazes me how much linkage there is on this post bewteen 'advanced driving' and blatantly breaking the law. Seems to me that an awful lot of folk need a reality check.

Myself and Footflaps are posting about reality 😕 Maybe should be a reality check for you.

On my iams motorbike test the copper said I should stick to the limits but if overtaking dont look at the speedo.

After a couple of miles the bloke told me to stop and then told me that although my technique was impeccable, I wasn't driving to "the system" and would therefore fail. "The system" means going through the same sequence of actions in response to every road hazard, enetering or leaving the sequence as necessary at any stage.

I fear you misunderstood the system. Information Position Speed Gear Acceleration, its just riding.

From the posts above, I think I've got this speeding thing sussed - if you're on a motorbike and the police officer is too, it's ok. If you're in a car, and the police officer is too, it's not ok.

Northwind - Member
iainc - Member
Amazes me how much linkage there is on this post bewteen 'advanced driving' and blatantly breaking the law. Seems to me that an awful lot of folk need a reality check.

Myself and Footflaps are posting about reality Maybe should be a reality check for you.

perhaps, but I doubt it. I have driven with somewhere near average ability for 25 plus years, have had 2 SP30's in the distant past and a speed awareness course (34 in a 30 in Morpeth) last year and do around 20k miles PA in a modern diesel company car that can go quite fast I believe.

I don't think I am anything other than an average driver, so am likely in the minority on here and I have known a few people who have suffered injury or worse as a result of vehicles being driven above the speed limit.

There does seem to be a belief that if people have attended driver training their potentially elevated skills gives them some form of inherent right to break the law, safely or otherwise, which I just don't get.

As you say though, maybe its just me needing a reality check 🙂

a speed awareness course (34 in a 30 in Morpeth) last year

Funny that so did my Dad.

The advanced driving thing is very good but I do understand what Ian means that some people may think they're even greater driving gods with super powers.

Out of those offences, how many were you actually, physically stopped for by a real person?

Like joining a queue, you 'collect' the traffic behind by slowing early thereby reducing that chance of someone crashing into you to almost 0

Looking for escape routes from those rolling back/approaching from behind

Turning right - keep the wheels straight so a crash from behind doesn't turn into a side impact with oncoming traffic

Adjusting speed around a bend - if the point the verge disappears starts getting closer to you, slow up, if its extending away, speed up.

Aren't these classed as "just driving" ?

I guess some people naturally have a better sense of awareness than others, and a better sense of speed/dangers/hazards/etc.

My brother-in-law hates driving, and I won't get in a car with him - he falls under the "very slow, zero awareness of others, and always-thinks-hes-in-the-right" group. The person in the middle lane, doing 50? That's him. The person going 10mph around a roundabout? That's him.

perhaps, but I doubt it. I have driven with somewhere near average ability for 25 plus years, have had 2 SP30's in the distant past and a speed awareness course (34 in a 30 in Morpeth) last year and do around 20k miles PA in a modern diesel company car that can go quite fast I believe.

So you sometimes break the law just like most other drivers do then.

And whoever said "advanced driving course = must be breaking the law" is a little out of touch.

You don't need to go above the speed limit to engage in some "advanced" driving.

moshimonster - Member
perhaps, but I doubt it. I have driven with somewhere near average ability for 25 plus years, have had 2 SP30's in the distant past and a speed awareness course (34 in a 30 in Morpeth) last year and do around 20k miles PA in a modern diesel company car that can go quite fast I believe.
So you sometimes break the law just like most other drivers do then.

absolutely, yes, always through distraction, tiredness or some other reason which is entirely unjustifiable and hence punishable by law, fair cop. But I wouldn't do it intentionally, to 'make progress' or whatever the phrase is, for the simple reasons of decreased safety to me and others and the real likelihood of getting caught, fined, whatever. I need to have a driving licence to provide for my family and live life as I do. Why risk it to save a few minutes on a journey ?

They really are the Captain Sensibles of the motoring world

Where do I sign up?

That's fair enough, but I would argue from what you've said that I'm probably a safer driver than you despite driving faster on certain roads. In other words you cannot say that someone is driving safely just because they don't break the speed limit - except when they do it accidentally 😉

iainc - Member

perhaps, but I doubt it.

Ah, so we're lying? We're both posting personal experiences from advanced driving/riding tuition, run by the police! And it's by no means uncommon.

Moshie - you may well be safer, yes, I don't know, I don't think I am anything other than average in driving ability.

Northwind - no, what I meant is that I doubted I needed a reality check, not that you and the other poster were lying. As I said, hopefully some Police forumites will clarify police attitude to speeding in the open road environment, not on a police led training course.

Ah, fair enough, I had read it the other way- apologies for that. (my course was in an open road environment btw)

I did it. Work paid. I recommend it. I feel safer as I'm more aware of what is going on around me, as well as a long way in front of me. I noticed the my top speed went down (to the speed limit) but my average speed went up, so I get places faster, but much less stressed.

I did it because I was get pissed off and doing silly overtakes.

It is hard to pass though, which numerous colleagues have confirmed. It will not reduce your car insurance.

Northwind, no probs, my wording was ambiguous anyway !

iainc - Member
really ? so the police will turn a blind eye to speeding ? I didnt know that.

The point was about briefly exceeding the legal limit whilst overtaking. Assuming you were driving in a competent and appropriate fashion, i do not believe a police car would stop and prosecute you for a brief, non excessive speed excursion during an overtake that they physically witnessed. Ie. 60mph limit, van doing 45-50mph. Long, clear stretch of road, without junctions or other hazards, and a correctly performed overtake, say briefly touching 75mph as you pass the van, and once you pass you settle back to around 60mph. No way would they pull you ime.

For all the people who claim that somehow speeding is morally wrong, tell me how you choose at what speed you travel everywhere?

Remember, when the, entirely arbitrary legal "limits" were set, this was the state of the art in passenger car engineering:

[img] [/img]

And whilst the person driving the car maybe hasn't changed, the vehicles we drive on a daily basis have changed beyond recognition.

Here's good ol Jezza to explain:

😉

I've done IAM and our local group defiantly didn't allow speeding.

It's very useful. I'm a Driving Instructor and the training I'd received wasn't half as good on planning etc as the IAM course.

Their are some right pompous so and so's on the group, but go with an open mind and you will learn lots.

The Diamond test the OP linked to is more DVSA based i.e. Indicating all the time whereas the IAM is indicating if there are other road users to benifit from your signal. That really does raise your awareness.......

For all the people who claim that somehow speeding is morally wrong, tell me how you choose at what speed you travel everywhere?

Depends on road conditions, weather and the speed limit. But you knew that.

The problem I have is with the name. Advanced doesn't fit. Call it defensive, safe, pro-active, considerate or anything that implies it is of benefit to all rather than an excuse to go faster for petrolheads.

Another IAM recommendation here.
I did it probably 12 years ago, really useful for improved hazard perception, road positioning & generally encouraging a more positive attitude to driving.

2 hours in the car with a serving police advanced driving instructor certainly focuses the mind too!

Kudos to the OP for being open minded enough to accept the feedback about his driving and consider doing something to improve it.

Drac
For all the people who claim that somehow speeding is morally wrong, tell me how you choose at what speed you travel everywhere?
Depends on road conditions, weather and the speed limit. But you knew that.

Fair enough.

Take the example of my local ring road. It's a lit dual carriageway, with central reservation and full crash barriers. It has no "side" junctions onto it, except at major roundabouts, which are around 1 to 2 km apart. In good conditions and with reasonable traffic flow, what speed would you chose to drive down it??

What's the speed limit sign say, Max?

Speed cameras on the Leicester ring road reduced a few deaths a year to zero which suggests that slowing the traffic at selected points had the desired effect.

my top speed went down (to the speed limit) but my average speed went up

Very interesting!

Speed cameras on the Leicester ring road reduced a few deaths a year to zero which suggests that slowing the traffic at selected points had the desired effect.

I guess the race between the innumerable sets of traffic lights was part of the problem? They should stick a few more on the A47 :/

Have a look on the internet and see if any 'performance driver training' companies are around in your area and have a chat with them about a day of driving. They would happily knock the worst habits out and show you some techniques that help

I got some pointers when I went on a holiday where there were a lot of drivers and going a fair way down france; found out afterwards rhe fella giving tips was the driver for the governor of the Bank of England 🙂 just doing 'scan the road' and 4exits made a big difference

Real-life, flesh and blood traffic cops are fine with a bit of speeding, if in their judgement you were driving/riding safely in my experience.

Indeed some seem to actually enjoy a bit of speed 😯 , one time I was riding 2 up back from Derbyshire and as I passed the Police headquarters a motorcycle cop pulled out behind me. Cue some textbook riding on my part, when we got to the national speed limit he had had enough and came steaming past, so I tucked in behind as you do.

He checked his mirrors, and we 'made progress' at exactly twice the speed limit for the next 5 miles until he turned off, with a nod exchanged. Seems he thought there was more to life than bleating on about speed limit adherence...

On the Bikesafe course I did (run by the Police) I got told off for legality. "I don't want to see you riding like you normally would when there's a copper behind you, I want to see how you actually ride."

Edukator
What's the speed limit sign say, Max?

For the last 15 years, 60mph has been deemed to be a suitable limit.

Last week, a blanket 40mph limit came into force.

Exactly zero motorists are complying with the stupidly low limit (put in place as a knee jerk reaction to a pedestrian death (drunk person, vaulted crash barriers, rather than use the footbridge that was less than 100M from where they crossed, and was hit and killed by am HGV) (which incidentally will still kill you stone dead at "just" 40mph.....)

As a result, this is re-enforcing in every single drivers subconscious, that speed limits can be ignored, or are inappropriate in general (which they are not). So, slowly, but surely, we are loosing the ability to advise motorists to REAL dangers, by using a low limit only where necessary............

Edukator

Speed cameras on the Leicester ring road reduced a few deaths a year to zero which suggests that slowing the traffic at selected points had the desired effect.

Personally, i have no issues with speed cameras, as the only people they catch speeding are people not paying attention anyway.

However, you cannot unfortunately just say "speed cameras reduced deaths", there is still no actual statistical proof of this. Overall, except for 2011, road deaths in the uk have fallen year on year for the last approx 50 years. Over this time, our cars have become enormously safer, our roads safer, average speeds have fallen due to traffic density, and many many other factors. Whilst speed cameras undoubtedly prevent some crashes from being more serious in specific camera locations, there is no data (yet) to suggest they affect the overall death rate on their own. Certainly, i've never yet seen the situation where other drivers don't simply slow down whilst passing the fixed camera, and speed up again within 100m of passing it.......

My only real gripe with the course was that you are expected to stick rigidly to the speed limits

Hmm and yet I was told to 'go with the flow'

Take the example of my local ring road. It's a lit dual carriageway, with central reservation and full crash barriers. It has no "side" junctions onto it, except at major roundabouts, which are around 1 to 2 km apart. In good conditions and with reasonable traffic flow, what speed would you chose to drive down it??

Is it a built up area or is it in area surrounded by fields?

There's similar roads like that in areas up here, they vary between 40, 50 and 70 depending on how many houses and such are around it. There's a large area around the Metro Centre reduced to 50 because of the amount of traffic when it's busy. It's frustrating when it's quiet late at night or earlier hours. However, as it works well during the peak times, have an alternating speed limit depending on times would just confuse the situation.

Ah wait just spotted this:

Last week, a blanket 40mph limit came into force.

Exactly zero motorists are complying with the stupidly low limit (put in place as a knee jerk reaction to a pedestrian death (drunk person, vaulted crash barriers, rather than use the footbridge that was less than 100M from where they crossed, and was hit and killed by am HGV) (which incidentally will still kill you stone dead at "just" 40mph.....

Seems sensible and doubt it's a knee jerk to one incident that'll be your perception of it. Have you contacted the authorities to find out why it's so or just taking a random guess?

Over this time, our cars have become enormously safer, our roads safer, average speeds have fallen due

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/06/road-deaths-serious-injuries-rise-experts-cuts-blame

But now rising again. Lots of things interacting

Deaths are down long term - cars are much safer for their occupants but no safer for the vulnerable (peds and cyclists)
Medical care has improved - more people survive with "life changing injuries" (lose a leg? It's only a flesh wound)
Rates of cycling and walking have fallen significantly over time (recent upsurge in cycling is localised and tiny. Weekend leisure cycling not material in terms of total number of journeys) with all the knock on impacts for public health.

Making the roads safer by removing walking as an option it's not a success.

https://twitter.com/aseasyasriding/status/540089757217603584

Personally, i have no issues with speed cameras, as the only people they catch speeding are people not paying attention anyway.

Except when the sneaky bastards hide Truvelos round corners, anyway. Other than that I'd totally agree.

Some of the worst drivers I know have IAM advanced driving training, which combined with a fair bit of arrogance around their "advanced" qualifications puts me off. I did some advanced motorcycle training with Rospa and I thought there approach was better, however I've no experience of any car driver training they do.

Some of the worst drivers I know have don't have IAM advanced driving training, which combined with a fair bit of arrogance around their "non advanced" qualifications means I'm pleased I have an advanced driving qualification.

Some of the worst drivers I know have don't have IAM advanced driving training, which combined with a fair bit of arrogance around their "non advanced" qualifications means I'm pleased I have an advanced driving qualification.

Thanks for making my point!

I did my advanced driving course with work, honestly it was the toughest course I've ever done. However, the 4 weeks can pretty much be summed up with just, observation, anticipation and drive to the conditions. If everyone had better observation/anticipation skills and drove to the road conditions, there would be less accidents.

I'm fed up of ticking the "driver looked, but did not see" box after attending road traffic accidents.

However that said, some of the worst drivers I know, have also done their advanced course :0(

Drive to arrive!

I'm pleased I have an advanced driving qualification.

Do you mention that to your car insurance people? I haven't, as I heard a rumour that it might actually increase premiums!

The Diamond test the OP linked to is more DVSA based i.e. Indicating all the time whereas the IAM is indicating if there are other road users to benifit from your signal. That really does raise your awareness.......

This the one that shows how IAM works - pretty much by wrote - the system -
if you use your indicators when the IAM observer thinks it was not needed - then you will be marked down - unless you can justify your actions - ie "other road user" its all designed to ensure you observe - but sadly bad practice as if for ANY reason you did not "observe" the pedestrian/cyclist night time car without lights etc - then you will be making unpredictable change of direction, saying - oh it was my fault for not observing enough after the problem does not justify neglecting to signal your intentions.

It bugs me and hence I cannot get the IAM observer in our office to discuss it at all , I know they think that by making the decision whether or not to indicate is a kind of test of observation for every change of direction - but
they cannot cope with the concept of the unknown or sudden change of circumstances at all.

sorry bit long - but it bugs me