[Closed] Abu Qatada

isn't it something to do with timon and pumbaa ?

Crucifixion?

Line on the left, one cross each

Why can we not put him on trial?

Don't know......maybe because of lack of evidence ?

[i]"He has not been able to see the evidence against him neither has his lawyer. The only person representing him is a special advocate who is not allowed to speak to him or his solicitor. There you have the bizarre situation where someone is representing him who has never met him or his lawyer"[/i]

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-case-against-abu-qatada-6660996.html ]The case against Abu Qatada[/url]

Doesnt sound as terrifying a person as we would be made to believe.

Why would we want to put him on trial? Let someone else do it.
The sooner he's gone the better.

Doesnt sound as terrifying a person as we would be made to believe.

Well after reading [i]"There you have the bizarre situation where someone is representing him who has never met him or his lawyer"[/i] I'm getting quite terrified of British justice.

I hope it's not true.

For some reason, facially he reminds me of Ray Mears.

Wrecker trying him ourself may be the quicker option, seems like May may have ****ed it up.

With a beard like that we should be able to deport him without any form of trial / hearing. He's quite obviously a serious threat to our country and should be deported immediately.

Ernie, even someone as deliberately contrary as you (in the sense of your online persona of course) can't argue that he hasn't had access to due process (or the largesse of the welfare state). If it wasn't for the fact that on balance I believe we should try to be exemplary in matters of justice, I would be happy to pay for his plane ticket myself.

It's also made me pretty antagonistic towards the ECHR, a position I didn't think I would reach.

<enters thread planning to make Lion King joke. Is secretly pleased to find out he's not the only person to think it, yet will pretend to be disappointed to be beaten to it>

Ernie, even someone as deliberately contrary as you (in the sense of your online persona of course) can't argue that he hasn't had access to due process

😕 I'm not arguing anything - I know nothing about the case, the clue was in my comment, quote : [i]"Don't know"[/i]

I'm simply saying that I hope the following is not true :

[i]"There you have the bizarre situation where someone is representing him who has never met him or his lawyer" [/i]

Seems no one really knows why he's the bogey man then.

I thought it was due to this:-

"In 1999, Qatada was sentenced in absentia by Jordan to life imprisonment with hard labour for conspiracy to carry out terror attacks, and subsequently in 2000 to a further 15 years for his involvement in a plot to bomb tourists attending Millennium celebrations in Jordan"

Everytime I hear this chaps name I can't help but think about Homeland 😆

Someone will be along soon...

... to suggest an amendment to "Derek's Law" - just the thing for such inconvenient situations where one has "insufficent evidence", or "inadmissable evidence" from those chaps in MI5 or over at Langley... 🙄

Allthepirs, he's been tried for them i was under the impression they eanted to try him for something else? Why has he been locked up here?

Having read the guardian link I can only wonder why we gave him asylum.
How big a scumbag do you have to be to be denied access to my country?
On one hand we are bombing the shit out of someone elses country killing god knows how many innocent people, while carefully protecting one of the people we are trying to catch.
I may not know the full story on this, feel free to point out any errors I have made. Educate me.

I may not know the full story on this, feel free to point out any errors I have made. Educate me.

Mrs May may well regret making such an issue of his deportation. The ECHR are bound to take into account the political 'noises off' around the issue and Cameron's hostility to to the EHCR.

'derek's law'

😆

Watching Theresa May's false bravado and over-confidence in the HoC a couple of nights ago filled me with dread at the time - I remember thinking, I hope this confidence is deserved. Next day, the balloon looks well and truly burst. Bloody shambles - pathetic when politicians can't dot the i's and cross the t's correctly. Thank goodness these people are kept out of important jobs in the real world!! 😉

Someone is due an almighty boll***ing in the Home Office.

With a beard like that we should be able to deport him without any form of trial / hearing

How big a scumbag do you have to be to be denied access to my country?

[i]"Derek's law"[/i] 😆 every time I read that it makes me larf as well...

He's taking the mickey.

Surely David Cameron/the justice system has the ability to:
- pick up a phone and make him 'disappear'
- refuse any form of bail
- remind him of the fact he's wanted for trial of 2 terrorist plots and just dump him on a plane to Jordan, European appeal or not

I hate to say it but this kind of fannying around wouldn't happen in the states...

If our glorious leaders paid as much attention to legal detail - ANY interest at all might be a start - as they do trying to write tomorrow's Daily Mail headlines, then maybe biblical (Quranic?) scale **** ups like this might be avoided

I can imagine there's a bit of this kind of thing going on at the moment...

And 'Dereks Law'? Genius! 😆

this kind of fannying around wouldn't happen in the states...

Exactly how big will the fine be if we just **** him right off out of here in defiance of the court ruling?
I will organise a whip round.

I'd just put him on the plane and if the euro court complain, just do a Gallic shrug
Often seems to be the easiest way with Euro matters

Exactly what we should do zippykona. If the europeans think he deserves to be in europe, they can have him. The UK should be able to decide who remains in its borders.

That would be an idea. Drop him on the steps of the EU headquarters in Brussels. If we wanted to add a Gallic touch, we could maybe then spray the reception area with silage, then set fire to some cars in the road outside?

Out of interest, what are the consequences of just bundling him on a plane? Are you just in contempt of court of the ECHR and if so who is? Is it the UK government as a whole (in which case who cares?), or is it the PM/HS as individuals (in which case I can understand why they haven't just bundled him onto a plane).

How about a "whoops he's escaped and we don't know where he is" type arrangement?
Drop him over at Diego Garcia. Job jobbed.

Wouldn't it be easier just to apply the rule of law?

Dereks Law?

If we're on about the 'proper' law, then senior government ministers, and their no doubt obscenely well-paid legal advisors seem to be struggling with the interpretation of that a bit, at the moment

Out of interest, what are the consequences of just bundling him on a plane?

Hard to say, we could always claim there is a [url= http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/cooperation/lisbonnetwork/themis/ECHR/Paper2_en.asp ]margin of appreciation [/url]applied here

I believe Jack Straw may be finding out the consequences of just putting them on a plane.

May was warned when the actual date was by the EU and she disagreed with them so proceeded anyway ...and some think the Tories are arrogant and cockily self assured.

If this goes pear shaped [ and he then sues for wrongful arrest] then many heads really do deserve to roll for that.

Dereks Law it should remain a STW in joke for years to come 😀

Torture is an abhorrent practice and one that should not be condoned. I am sure that those who displayed a more "consequential" approach to the Breivik case would still find it hard to condone torture despite the fact that UK seem to have bent the limits of international law in the past!

But it is an interesting situation/case that the obstacles to deportation cases have nothing to do with the host nation but only to the "target" nation. I would like to see a list of those nations that can categorically state that they have never used/condoned torture on individuals on trial or as a means to gather evidence. Sadly, I am guessing it would be a short list.

JY - with TM there was a sense of inevitability with this, don't you think?

Dereks Law?

The threads would become tiresome and then closed!

In the spirit of the Torygraph letters section. Overheard last night (in a hospital ward) with reference to Abu Qatada an old lady saying to her son:

"he's a good looking chap isn't he?" !!!

If he is wanted in Spain in connection with the Madrid bombings why not send him there? I thought we now had an extradition treaty with them. Other than Don Simon, the Spanish have outlawed torture.

thm - are you sure she wasn't watching the Chelsea, Barca game? Pep Guardiola was provoking similar comments in the our house. Not from me, I might add

I just think if he's so evil it would be simpler and easier for his to try him ourselves.

I can see the european question rearing its amusing head amongst Tories here.

The threads would become tiresome and then [s]closed![/s] go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on .. zzzzzzz

Nope binners, as she showed her lack of cultural sensitivity by adding ..."if he had a shave!"

It reminded me of a Les Dawson sketch.

JY - with TM there was a sense of inevitability with this, don't you think?

In all seriousness it was shocking decisions when they had warned her about the date [ he may well have appealed anyway tbh but to jump the gun for the baying crowds of Westminster was rather foolish when just waiting one more day would have been a very prudent and sensible decision.

Surprised her "boss" would approve or some PR goon did not intervene either

Nice Les dawson sketch I love it wehn you get unintentional comedy before your eyes.

Binners you more of John Tery man and like a bit of rough?

I just think if he's so evil it would be simpler and easier for his to try him ourselves.

Given that Ken Clark said on the Today programme this morning that he hadn't ever actually seen any evidence against him, there may be a problem there.

I was thinking more Messi actually Junkyard. You could chuck him about a bit

I would like to see a list of those nations that can categorically state that they have never used/condoned torture on individuals on trial or as a means to gather evidence. Sadly, I am guessing it would be a short list.

No that's most western countries, and their allies where they supply advice and training.
"Advanced Inrerrogation Techniques" work well enough, torture is not needed. Sadly, it appears that trials or being charged are no longer needed either.

From what I understand ,its not about him breaking laws here its about going back to Jordan to serve his sentence. He has been found guilty.
Why did we not give asylum to bin laden? He was under threat of execution with no trial. Clearly an infringement of his human rights.

Memory is hazy - but wasn't there a time when we were "encouraging" the like of Abu Qatada to live in London?

IIRC our fellow Europeans were getting a little angsty abouth the UK, as they were experiencing radical attacks and we werent???

Did Bin Laden seek asylum?

Memory is hazy - but wasn't there a time when we were "encouraging" the like of Abu Qatada to live in London?

I remember seeing a documentary years ago about it. They interviewed a French Diplomat. He referred to Londonistan. He said it was the French government view that we must be absolutely bonkers to be granting all these Islamist nut-jobs political asylum.

There seems a certain irony to that now the EU is preventing us booting him out

binners - Member
Memory is hazy - but wasn't there a time when we were "encouraging" the like of Abu Qatada to live in London?
I remember seeing a documentary years ago about it. They interviewed a French Diplomat. He referred to Londonistan. He said it was the French government view that we must be absolutely bonkers to be granting all these Islamist nut-jobs political asylum.

There seems a certain irony to that now the EU is preventing us booting him out

i remember the programme panorama maybe ?

This is the problem with intervening in too many foreign wars, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, one minute you are having someone bundled on a plane to libya, next minute hes suing you for illegal rendition.
While we sell armoured landrovers and bombs and send F1 races to bahrain, even yates of the yard has headed over there, we should prepare for the inevitable backlash when the repressed people boot out the current royal family and embrace the radicals we are driving them too!

as for theresa may being unable to fill out paperwork on time? i believe that there is a social event being organised in a beer factory that she should try and sort out first.

This gets worse with each news bulletin!

count after me...