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I was surprised by the courts definition of good attendance - 90%. I think missing 1 day in every two weeks is poor attendance.
I dont think they defined good attendance as 90%, the court simply concluded that the government had not defined regular attendance.
90% was the threshold for chronic truancy.
The particulars of this case dont shower the parents in glory, but it ought to bring the principle of what is acceptable <100% for the definition of regular education.
[i]you should encourage them to do so WW![/i]
No problem with my kids helping others. My daughter has a partner in a number of lessons that she helps with his work as he has some special needs.
I would object to her being used to do that with some kid who's parents thought they'd take advantage of a cheap holiday because 'it's alright, the other kids will help him catch up again'. It's not alright.
Anyway, I'm the oldest of 4 and least academically qualified - the rest all have Master level qualifications and I got one, grade D, A level so in true stw style - you're wrong!
My children and their education are not in common ownership thank you
And my children's education is not in your ownership, to be buggered up by dragging your kids off to Benidorm and then dumping them ignorant and disruptive back in the classroom.
a holiday during term time is, or was, guaranteed to be a peaceful break from other peoples' screaming children.
Interesting. In my experience my kids were at there screamiest when they were pre school, and we were free to take them on holiday whenever we felt like it. I genuinely don't think we ever spoilt anyone else holiday.
As an aside, we kept both our kids out from school until they were nearly eight- one of the reasons was that we'd have more freedom for holidays, due to the nature of our work at the time- now the kids can't remember half the places we've been to. I reckon that you're wasting the money taking them to memorable places until they're a fair bit older- they've the memories of goldfish. 🙂
it's back to the whole 'social contract' thing.
a basic expectation that other users of state services will follow the same rules that you do because in the end the common good relies on it.
like having vaccinations. you don't *have* to but if you don't and enough other people don't either then the risk for everyone increases.
In practice though it'll have little effect. The fines weren't much of a deterrent. £60 on top of the cost of a trip to Disney land isn't going to put anyone off. You either think it's ok to take your kids out of school or you don't.
it's back to the whole 'social contract' thing.a basic expectation that other users of state services will follow the same rules that you do because in the end the common good relies on it.
along with an implicit acceptance that the state knows what's good for you.
So many states, so many different contracts, all for the common good. Which one to choose?
And nothing like vaccinations, by the way.
this is terrible news for those of us free from kids.
a holiday during term time is, or was, guaranteed to be a peaceful break from other peoples' screaming children.
I see it as a problem shared..I have to deal with the winging, screaming, and mess all year round... 😉
DrP
along with an implicit acceptance that the state knows what's good for you.
Along with an implicit acceptance that the state knows what's in the common good. Alternative societies are available - I believe that Somalia is pretty lax on the whole truancy thang.
Perhaps if the holiday companies didn't take the opportunity to ramp up their prices during school holidays
They don't, they ramp them down in term time.
but in school it was just learning and regurgitating
You went to school in France though, didn't you Ed?
Along with an implicit acceptance that the state knows what's in the common good.
and has no need to refine that knowledge, to allow for change?
Tales of gifted/clever kids not being impacted are just distractions and best case scenarios .
(and in one case jambyfact 😉 ) - wealthy year off yaya .
Fact is if average or less than kids miss too much then its a struggle to catch up and who does the catching up? - Does the teacher just leave them to it?
If teacher is having to spend time on catch up instead of
helping those who genuinely need it or moving on to the next subject this is not good.
This court case will result in more pain for everybody in terms of regulation and selfish behavior .
The rules could help by designating some dates as more flexible for example in the last 2 weeks of term - but frankly unless you pay somebody to teach what was missed then why should others miss out.
There are always proper exceptions and that is fine - you can also take your kids out of school and educate them yourselves its your choice and your responsibility.
Our council wouldn't even take Tesco Clubcard vouchers for the fine, it's an outrage!
I see it as a problem shared..I have to deal with the winging, screaming, and mess all year round...
and that's just the other GPs...
A secondary mod in Brum, Molgrips. I was only the second pupil from the place to get to university which I put down to joining a cycling club and being off sick a lot - the first guy to get to university was in the same club which made me realise it was possible.
Excellent result the law has it right and I pretty much agree with Stoner's points on this thread.
When I was a nipper i went to disney world for a week during term time. Didn't do any harm at all.
Certainly, missing a week of primary school is no big deal
Another victory for the "Me, Myself, I" generation
aP
I'm minded to think that its a victory for the me-me-me generation.
I don't see how, The Baby Boomers are all nearing retirement now - long past caring about holidays with kids.
Education is undervalued hugely.
Is a week off significant to affect their grades?
Any evidence?
As long as it's not GCSE years, probably not.
Maybe they will learn more on a holiday.
It's not as if they are walking around the city centre truanting.
Just don't rely on teachers to provide catch up materials.
Didnt really need much beyond the first post tbh
Very disruptive for the teacher and the rest of the class and slefish parents putting their "need for a holiday" above the quality of education ALL children receive
Thatcher would be proud of the way you ignore society and think only of yourself where yourself means your wallet,
Very disruptive for the teacher and the rest of the class and slefish parents putting their "need for a holiday" above the quality of education ALL children receive
Not really, kids are off all the time sick - I find it hard to believe this is going to become more than a drop in the ocean compared to that. Realistically how many parents are actually going to take their kids out of school at a critical time?
Is a week off significant to affect their grades?
If its 20 weeks as everyone does then yes it has an impact on the schooling
its a priori but i am sure evidence exists if you really require itAny evidence?
Maybe they will learn more on a holiday.
That is just laughable and it depends very heavily on what you mean by "learn". My kids would learn to be better cyclists. Wont help them pass exams though
kids are off all the time sick
Are you arguing this is not disruptive or are you arguing two "wrongs" make a right?
convert - MemberHe was on radio 4 this morning. For me he came across as a self centred blinkered thinking throbber of the highest order
He's a friend of a friend and yes a total raging tosser. But that's not neccesarily material 😆
It's a new dawn - @thm I actually agree AND like what you wrote...I must be dreaming.... 😀
[quote=edenvalleyboy spake unto the masses, saying]It's a new dawn - @thm I actually agree AND like what you wrote...I must be dreaming....
We're entering End Times 🙁
Are you arguing this is not disruptive or are you arguing two "wrongs" make a right?
I'm just saying that kids not being there is hardly unusual, and is unlikely to cause significant disruption. It affects their education, of course, but I very much doubt that it's a serious problem for the rest of the class. Unless we're talking about a significant percentage of parents taking their kids out of class, but is that the case?
So in effect kids have annual leave, attend for all of Autumn and you can get a 2 week break in March. Nice 🙂
Disneyland 🙄 No one should go there ever, that alone should have swayed the court decision against him, far from educational. Well unless that is you work in marketing and specialise in getting kids to bully their parents into buying overpriced sh*t.
I'm torn on this, I've got 1 kid of school age and one who's yet to start.
We're going on Holiday this year in the middle of summer hols because I don't want to take him out of school. I did a couple of years ago when he was 6.
I've never really struggled to find a decent holiday for my modest budget during school hols by thinking outside the box, well not really outside the box, just outside breezing into Thomas Cook or the like and asking for a week in some Spanish Costa tower block resort.
Our school and a lot of other local ones are trying to work something out, one school booked all it's 5 inset day to run 5 in a row in June which gave parents a chance to grab a cheap holiday, ours extended the Summer Hols by 2 days to make them the full 7 weeks, the last week being not quite the full bum rape summer hols rates and Easter is two weeks after the long bank holiday rather than the week before and after.
The challenge you have is that STW are all "reasonable parents", so they may take them for a week at the end of term and it'll have almost no impact. Fine. But you have to also legislate for the "unreasonable parents" who will take them for 2 weeks at a more critical time or will will take the proverbial.
Yes, the law is a pain for some but it is a broad brush that has to be used to protect all.
And yes, I'm bitter about it has I'm married to a teacher so not only will I now get kids and potentially more cost on my lads holidays during term time, I'll also still have to go during holiday time at full cost with my wife. Anyone who thinks this will mean cheaper hols is wrong, term time will just go up in cost.
Unless we're talking about a significant percentage of parents taking their kids out of class, but is that the case?
It's not now, no. But this recent ruling may well mean that is does become the case.
I see no problem in parents taking their children out of school so long as they do not disrupt other children learning or blame others for their own failure etc.
Their children so do as they wish because there is no guarantee that all children are going to grow up successful. Some are going to end up doing low end jobs while others becoming criminals but someone got to do it ...
Their children their own responsibility otherwise don't breed.
It's not now, no. But this recent ruling may well mean that is does become the case.
Unlikely, as the government will simply set a threshold to define "reasonable attendance". Presumably higher than 90%, which is very low.
And yes, I'm bitter about it has I'm married to a teacher so not only will I now get kids and potentially more cost on my lads holidays during term time, I'll also still have to go during holiday time at full cost with my wife. Anyone who thinks this will mean cheaper hols is wrong, term time will just go up in cost.
I'm married to a teacher and the amount we save on child care during summer far outweighs the extra cost for holidays!
I wish I had the opportunity at work to allow me to have the school holidays off I haven't hit summer holidays rostered leave for over ten years. But in 2019 I can have two weeks off in summer holidays 🙂 unless I get moved stations again due to cut backs doh...
And the childcare in the holidays costs more than a bloody holiday would 🙁
I'm married to a teacher and the amount we save on child care during summer far outweighs the extra cost for holidays!
Yes, but I don't have kids so get the worst of both worlds!
Excellent result the law has it right and I pretty much agree with Stoner's points on this thread.
*taps sarcastometer. unexpectedly showing no signs, or it's bust*
Our school and a lot of other local ones are trying to work something out, one school booked all it's 5 inset day to run 5 in a row in June which gave parents a chance to grab a cheap holiday, ours extended the Summer Hols by 2 days to make them the full 7 weeks, the last week being not quite the full bum rape summer hols rates and Easter is two weeks after the long bank holiday rather than the week before and after.
That's grand, until you've got kids at two different schools and you end up where they've shifted the easter holidays so much that they're actually not off at the same time...
My OH is an overworked underpaid teacher too, and I'd imagine what most teacher's are concerned about is that the schools (which are now mostly acadamies, and desperate to meet ofstead targets to get funding) will insist teachers do lots of extra planning for each and every child that's going to be taken out of class.
My OH is an overworked underpaid teacher too, and I'd imagine what most teacher's are concerned about is that the schools (which are now mostly acadamies, and desperate to meet ofstead targets to get funding) will insist teachers do lots of extra planning for each and every child that's going to be taken out of class.
Teachers - always me, me, me! 😉
My OH is an overworked underpaid teacher too
Well I guess she can take a holiday during term time now, given that everyone is agreed that kids missing a week or two of education is no big deal, right?
Private schools effectively ban term time holidays and it seems virtually no-one tries to take them.
I'm not quite sure what conclusions to draw from this but it's not 'parents with kids at private school can afford the higher holiday cost'. I suspect it maybe something to do with placing a higher value on education.
I can't help but feel that it's the teachers that will be the losers from this and this will filter down.
Junkyard - lazarusBlah, blah, blah...
Thatcher would be proud of the way you ignore society and think only of yourself where yourself means your wallet,
And if the evil old bitch hadn't decimated Britain's manufacturing base, perhaps all us hard-grafting manual workers would still be able to afford holidays out of term time.
That is just laughable
Holidays can be really educative, Junkyard and I find it surprising that you find the idea laughable.
On holidays with junior, cycling as it happens, we've visited WW1 battlefields, the bridge too far, the dam buster dams, the iron curtain, check point Charlie, the Rhur valley, various bombed out and rebuilt towns around Europe, a U-Boat, numerous museums and galeries, the Normandy landing beaches, a concentration camp (from the outside, kids aren't allowed in), Aix la Chapelle (Charlemagne), le Mur de L'Atlantique, Bosworth Field, London, a Napoleonic battlefield, Pilgrim routes and lots of religious sites, a viking village, medieval towns and castles, pre-historic sites... .
This year he is taking both a French Bac and German Arbiture specializing in history - can you see the link? I really think he learned a lot on holidays and more importantly was inspired to learn more.