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Hello friends - a person I know has a work colleague who's called in sick as they're exhibiting Covid symptoms. They have decided to self-isolate themselves for ten days, but are declining to seek a test - is that allowed? Just seems a bit like a lengthened sickie to me...
no idea
can they work from home ?
Given the farce that is the testing 'system' it's seems legit to me - but shouldn't stop them from WFH.
They're doing the minimal of mailing in what their colleagues need to do to cover on a daily basis, but there's little more that they can do from home - it's more a matter of, can they decline to take a test for a potential illness they're off sick for, when A) it may indicate clearly whether or not they're swinging the lead, and B) that may have potentially major issues for the people they work with (ie, if they DO test positive, the rest of their bubble needs to self-isolate too)?
Has anyone asked them why they don't want a test ?
If I were their employer I'd be looking at finding them alternative duties - and consulting my HR dept if the company has one.
If I really thought they were taking the piss I might also be phoning them at home rather than accepting emails - maybe a couple of times a day. After all, they can't leave the house during that period so it'd be no bother finding them.
Presumably anyone wanting to pull a fast one could just say they've had a test and it was positive. Does covid testing generate a statutory sick note? And is it officially notifiable?
a person I know has a work colleague who’s
What does it have to do with them? That's a question for their employer.
it’s more a matter of, can they decline to take a test for a potential illness they’re off sick for
That's arse-backwards. Are they obliged to get tested? You can self-certify for seven days' sickness and don't need to see a doctor.
They’re doing the minimal of mailing in what their colleagues need to do to cover on a daily basis, but there’s little more that they can do from home
Are they actually "off sick" or are they "working from home"? If the former then they're not doing the 'minimal' but rather they're working when they shouldn't be.
This all sounds a bit "free holiday" green-eyed monster to me. Would your friend rather they were in work potentially hospitalising half the building?
Has anyone asked them why they don’t want a test ?
If they live in Lancashire there's no choice, we've run out.
Are they actually “off sick” or are they “working from home”?
SSP is £95/week; minimum wage for >25 yr old is £8.72/hr; 37.5 hrs/wk = £372.
No-one in their right mind would choose SSP over WFH - unless they were truly incapable of work.
What does it have to do with them? That’s a question for their employer
The person I know line manages the colleague - the employer's just sort of going "meh - if they do it again, we'll clobber them".
That’s arse-backwards. Are they obliged to get tested? You can self-certify for seven days’ sickness and don’t need to see a doctor.
That's kind of the crux of the post, really - employee says "I'm showing these symptoms and am therefore taking ten days off - I am also declining to take a test" (which, Hancock has just assured me on R4, is easily available nationwide) - is there any obligation to take a test if you have symptoms and are isolating? Not least because their work bubble should also self-isolate if the employee tests positive?
This all sounds a bit “free holiday” green-eyed monster to me.
Definite elements of this. 🙂
Would your friend rather they were in work potentially hospitalising half the building?
Not if they have it, no. But without a test, it looks like, walks like and quacks like a ten day freebie.
I managed to get a test pretty easily yesterday, I guess it varies from region to region but neither location I was offered were in the county I live, had to drive 30 miles in the end, no big deal.
Don't we have an obligation to get tested if we might have Covid? This is how track and trace is supposed to work and without it no one you might have come in contact with would be notified. Do they live on their own an never go out? Sounds like a bit of an a-hole really.
Presumably anyone wanting to pull a fast one could just say they’ve had a test and it was positive
Which is why employers ask for proof.
Which is why employers ask for proof.
the TUC guidance says
if evidence is required by an employer, those with symptoms of coronavirus can
get an isolation note from NHS 111 online, and those who live with someone that
has symptoms can get a note from the NHS websitehowever it's employer discretion (edited - it's employer, not employee))
https://111.nhs.uk/isolation-note/
If they live in Lancashire there’s no choice, we’ve run out.
Hancock says you are lying. I'm far more inclined to believe you than him.
Being off with symptoms is what it is, not seeking a test when you're displaying symptoms is however certainly in breach of rule 1 and, in my work place, your be sternly reminded of your H&S obligations to not put yourself or others at risk, and that by failing to seek a test you're doing exactly that. You'd be getting a letter inviting you to explain why, seek a test or if you continue not to, to appoint your representative as you'd likely be facing a [potential gross] misconduct disciplinary on return.
People get ill, it's part of life as is accepting that as a normal part of business.
People seriously risking the health of colleagues and the business through inaction on the other hand is not.
Sui that’s not positive tests.
10 days is an odd length of time is it not?
Hello friends – a person I know has a work colleague who’s called in sick as they’re exhibiting Covid symptoms. They have decided to self-isolate themselves for ten days, but are declining to seek a test – is that allowed?
They shouldn't be having a test, so they're doing exactly the right thing.
hancock was on the BEEB this morning saying that even after a negative test you should be self isolating for 10 days anyway due to the incubation period.
Mentalist. Hes literally making it up on the spot.
10 days is an odd length of time is it not?
goverment guidance:
How long to self-isolate
If you have symptoms or have tested positive for coronavirus, you'll usually need to self-isolate for at least 10 days.You'll usually need to self-isolate for 14 days if:
someone you live with has symptoms or tested positive
someone in your support bubble has symptoms or tested positive
you've been told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace
called in sick as they’re exhibiting Covid symptoms.
They shouldn’t be having a test,
Is the wrong answer.
hancock was on the BEEB this morning saying that even after a negative test you should be self isolating for 10 days anyway due to the incubation period.
Not true, he said if you've come into contact with someone so get a test*, [when you're asymptomatic, possibly exposed less than 24 hrs ago etc] that getting tested was pointless, you still need to self isolate because any negative result is meaningless.
*e. G. Little Johnny has symptoms, now his entire class tries to book a test, symptomatic or no. It pointless, they'll almost undoubtedly come back negative yet in 5 days time might well all have symptoms be positive and shrug it off because they got tested and it was negative.
Don’t we have an obligation to get tested if we might have Covid?
We certainly have a moral duty, if not a legal one.
Drac
Full Member
Sui that’s not positive tests
agree, and that's the point for the OP, the employee is saying they have symptons. If you have a poistive test, then there is further guidance/rules to follow.
The point of the my post is to highlight, that should the employer wish, he can force the "symptom shower" to provide a sympton note, this is often enought to make people think carefully if what they are doing is right.
The point of my post was replying to the person I quoted that if you test positive an employer will likely ask for the results.
SSP is £95/week; minimum wage for >25 yr old is £8.72/hr; 37.5 hrs/wk = £372.
No-one in their right mind would choose SSP over WFH – unless they were truly incapable of work.
This seems the key part in this case. Is he taking sick time or expecting to be paid as if working? I’ve been self employed most of my life so I have no idea what the rules are in this situation.
Just tried to book a test and just get a message saying to try later as the service is very busy!
@uggski I had that experience yesterday, I tried again after an hour, fully expecting it to continue to disappoint me and I found a test and was tested 90 minutes later.
I called in on Wednesday morning as I've got a standard 'kids-have-gone-back-to-school' cold and as I can work from home fairly effectively in the short term, thought it best to do so.
Boss then says, get a test and no-one is to return to work without a negative test...
I really don't want to be part of the problem and hog a test with no symptoms and pointed this out to him and also pointed him to the news reports describing the situation (he's currently in the middle east on 'essential' travel).
I have however been trying to get a test:
First day of trying - nothing offered and at least 15mins per refresh.
Second day - one offer of a drive through test available 5 hour round trip
Today - Blow me! 2 slots at a test centre <10miles away, click to book and no times are available today or tomorrow, whether drivethrough or walk in. Same result with a second test centre offered at the same time <20miles away.
It seems like the system has been written by gibbons as instructed by their chimp paymasters.
edited to add - South Yorkshire
Boss then says, get a test and no-one is to return to work without a negative test…
No offence, but the only chimp paymaster here is your boss. If he (or she) wants their employees to have a negative test before the return to work, then they should pay for private tests which are readily available.
Not only are you taking up a slot at a testing centre from someone who might genuinely need it, you're wasting public money, the time of test-and-trace if you get a positive result, and the time of everyone who might have to self-isolate if that result is a false positive.
neither location I was offered were in the county I live, had to drive 30 miles in the end, no big deal.
Despite what others may have done driving a 30 mile trip if you think your driving is impaired and you think you can't see properly is still illegal.
Blame the public in full effect - they may not be able to run a country, but they sure know how to control the narrative.
They can only self certify for 7 days so if no test result or doctors note after that by the letter of most contracts they wouldn't be getting sick pay. What has the organisation done in relation to self cert duration?
What are you talking about? Its about the only thing that is actually clear from government guidance, if you have symptoms, get tested.
You might think that for average Joe public that is a waste of time. But you're wrong.
People you share a house with also have to self-isolate until you know if you test positive or not, and you can't work and you shouldn't leave the house, the sooner you know either way, the sooner you can go back to work and your family can go back to normal.
Perfectly reasonable for an employer to ask for a negative test before you return, partly out of duty of care to you, but also what if you infect the rest of the work-force?
Where did I say my driving was impaired? I was fine, mild headache, sense of taste off, fever from previous night completely gone.
I very much doubt I have the plague, still waiting for result over 24 hours later, but the whole point of the testing is to check, positive or negative, so you know what to do.
Where did I say my driving was impaired?
That's fine then, but unless you have good connections don't bung the family in the car and drive to Barnard Castle and use your impairment as an excuse.
Its about the only thing that is actually clear from government guidance, if you have symptoms, get tested.
Clear? Sounds like you need to get a test at home.
If you have coronavirus symptoms:
a high temperature
a new, continuous cough
a loss of, or change to, your sense of smell or taste
Get a test and stay at home
My post wasn't replying to you - I completely agree, if you have Covid 19 symptoms you should get a test.
My ire was directed at the boss of someone who was insisting on a test for symptomless employees before they return to work (I think they'd been in contact with someone who had Covid 19).
Nick....
Yep so it's not clear since I was following
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
(which incidentally was #1 google "covid advice uk")
I'm not saying you did the wrong thing... I'm just pointing out sod all is actually clear.
I have however been trying to get a test:
First day of trying – nothing offered and at least 15mins per refresh.
Second day – one offer of a drive through test available 5 hour round trip
Today – Blow me! 2 slots at a test centre <10miles away, click to book and no times are available today or tomorrow, whether drivethrough or walk in. Same result with a second test centre offered at the same time <20miles away.
I've been trying for days; live in Lincoln.
This morning - deep joy, test availability today at local site; race through process, choose 4 - 4.30pm slot, hit 'save and continue'. Taken back to start of process.
Go again, earliest slot now 5 - 5.30pm so choose that, save and continue. Back to start of process - again.
Another try - now, no test sites found.
No email confirmation received.
No booking = no test.
Farce?
It's so much more serious than that.
It's a clear dereliction of the government's public health duty and responsibility.
NHS says get a test and stay at home until you get a result https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/#symptoms
Employment advice on directing to take a test seems to rest under 'reasonble management' instructions, but this could be subject to debate on both sides, for example- https://www.stevens-bolton.com/site/insights/articles/can-employers-demand-staff-take-a-covid19-test
Accessiblity of testing regiemes would make for an interesting argument. Employer pays for a private test?
d
@Nick Been trying every 45 minutes all day. Still no luck. So I can only conclude that Hancock is either ill informed or just lying
Employment advice on directing to take a test seems to rest under ‘reasonble management’ instructions, but this could be subject to debate on both sides, for example- https://www.stevens-bolton.com/site/insights/articles/can-employers-demand-staff-take-a-covid19-test
/blockquote>Ooo, now THAT'S interesting, thank you. From that site -
"Where an employee is exhibiting symptoms of coronavirus, it may be reasonable to require that employee be tested for COVID-19, where the purpose is to protect the health and safety of the workforce. Also, a negative result would mean that employees with symptoms could return to work rather than having to self-isolate for 10 days. In this circumstance, if the employee refuses to be tested, the employer may be justified in taking disciplinary action.
The situation is more complicated when employees are not exhibiting symptoms. A reasonable employee is likely to agree to be tested if there is a clear and rational need for it. However, where employees do not consent to being tested, the question is whether a requirement to be tested is a reasonable management instruction. This will depend on the circumstances of the particular employer and the extent to which the risk of COVID-19 can be managed through other measures."