MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
barefoot shoes ARE bad, barefoot however 😀
why would encouraging people to try barefoot running be a marketing gimmick? you cant sell people new feet
I think thats just been answered.
to me barefoot IS barefoot, nothing on your feet! minimalist, bare foot, barefoot shoes etc IS marketing guff.
to me barefoot IS barefoot, nothing on your feet! minimalist, bare foot, barefoot shoes etc IS marketing guff.
Fair enough. How much and how often do you run?
3 - 4 times a week, on and offroad. anything from 1 to 10 miles. i will don shoes (inov8) for fell races though 😀
I have these: http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/
When I bought these I had spent somewhere up to 3 - 400 quid over a period of 6 years on trainers ranging from around £20 to well over £120 a pop. These were just another attempt to avoid shin splints, the only one that worked.
Damn.
I've been drawn in.
DrDomRob - Member
I have these: http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/When I bought these I had spent somewhere up to 3 - 400 quid over a period of 6 years on trainers ranging from around £20 to well over £120 a pop. These were just another attempt to avoid shin splints, the only one that worked.
Damn.
I've been drawn in.
they were perfect for giving me stress fractures in my feet, lovely 🙁
Okay, so dare I say I'm more confused than ever now!!! Didn't mean to open the can of worms that is the barefoot running debate either. Okay let me clarify a bit more, I used to runs alot in my youth, (county/east England X country) and although I have always jogged, I would like to up my level and intensity, with it potentially putting me to a stage where I would feel comfortable attempting my first tri, currently using some Asics road shoes, and although can't avoid running on road at times, having recently relocated to the South Wales Valleys it seems a shame not to make use of the hills and open space around me, but having looked at the available shoes I was/and still am bewildered by the selection available, I understand that fit is important, my winterwalking boots are a pair of Scarpa that have to be nearly 7/8 years old, fit like a glove and are wearing very well, hence why I'm going to a shop to be assessed, I just wanted some pointers and peoples experiences of various shoes, and if full on fell shoes are what i need or would a good cross/trail shoe suffice. I hope this helps to clarify what I'm after, and I realise it is a bit of a what tyre for everything type thread, so should I say, what shoes for mostly off road/grassy hills/bridleways, with the odd bit of road/Tarmac?
[i]they were perfect for giving me stress fractures in my feet, lovely [/i]
Me too! But I still love em 🙂
whatever fits your feet and your comfortable in! enjoy 😀
How much running did you do in them? I dropped down to doing about 10 minutes at a time when I first got them, I am now running about half an hour or so outdoors and a bit longer on the treadmill. But that depends on how fast I set the thing going.
I'd like to point out that I stop when my calves adn feet start to hurt. I've been injured enough over the last 11 years that I have learnt to listen to my body and not push it.
The down side is that I don't often get the all over workout lungburn feeling I used to get when I used to do longer runs. Just feet and lower leg ache.
IanMunro - Member
they were perfect for giving me stress fractures in my feet, lovely
Me too! But I still love em
yeh weird that cuz i still love mine, you used huaraches yet? they are great.
they were perfect for giving me stress fractures in my feet, lovely
That's the trouble with minimalist shoes, really easy to do too much!
Bet you've been having fun running barefoot in snow 🙂
I made the mistake of seeing how fast I could run downhill on about the second or third time I used them 🙂
But after that I was a lot more cautious and gently worked up to about 20 miles as the longest run in them.
PS.
Apologies for not having anything constructive to help the OP with.
But this is STW, so you must have set your expectations low anyway 🙂
I think Nike Frees have somewhat less of a heel (ie height differential) than many normal shoes:
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vs
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I have to admit I haven't been running at all over the last week 🙁 But if the snow comes back whilst I am in Newbury at the end of this week then I'll be doing a couple of runs then.
ron - I'd personally go with some barefoot ones...... I don't really know what else to say, barefoot all the way!
When the shop gives you your feedback ask them why whatever they say is a problem / positive. Get them to explain themselves with reasoned argument. Don't take what they say on face value.
Legs are a beautifully engineered system of springs of levers, in my opinion anything that reduces your ability to use them in that way is not a good thing.
[i]yeh weird that cuz i still love mine, you used huaraches yet? they are great[/i]
I haven't really got on with them. Though I only tried them out a couple of times off-road on recently ploughed land and got pissed off with the front of them folding under if I caught my foot on stuff. Quite fancy trying a pair of terra plana achilles when they come out though.
ronjeremy - I wouldn't get fell shoes, they'd be wasted on mixed terrain. Something like a Mizuno Wave Harrier has good grip in a harder rubber that won't evaporate on contact with road. They're not overly cushioned, fairly small differential between heel and forefoot and fairly low to the ground, so you should be safe if marauding packs of gait police are patrolling your area.
Avoid anything with a higher heel, if not for heelstrike offences, but because you'll go over on your ankle and cry like a girl. I speak from experience. Some trail shoes are like road shoes with a bit more tread. And don't worry about water, goretex lining etc. Aim for the puddles.
Lesson - never come to STW for running/shoe advice.
IMO at least 90% of this thread is complete BS written by those that are cr4p runners anyway. A few snippets of good advice but it's hard to find...
IMO at least 90% of this thread is complete BS written by those that are cr4p runners anyway. A few snippets of good advice but it's hard to find...
*sigh*
....and what gives you the qualification to jump down from on high and make such a statement?
Sometimes you really post the most dickish things Mat.
written by those that are cr4p runners anyway
Harsh, Mat! Since you've got no idea how good anyone is.
Surf-Mat - Member
Lesson - never come to STW for running/shoe advice.
IMO at least 90% of this thread is complete BS written by those that are cr4p runners anyway. A few snippets of good advice but it's hard to find...
Could you point me in the direction of the good stuff then please..
It comes from Mat himself. Who is by his own admission not a serious runner.
[i]Could you point me in the direction of the good stuff then please..[/i]
I think lots of people tried to help. It's just that some of them have different views, what with it being a forum and all. That's a lot of words wasted then. I withdraw mine.
But you all know Matt's the best. Well you should cos he keeps telling us he is....
[i]A few snippets of good advice but it's hard to find... [/i]
actually I think the overall advice is pretty much the same which ever side of the barefoot-running shoes divide you're on, and that's:
find a shoe that will allow you to run without pain.
some advocate barefoot shoes, others like normal cushioned trainers, go with whatever works for you.
Stever, wasn't meant as a snide dig and apologies if that is how it was taken, was meant light heartedly to try and draw a line under the barefoot debate. I have digested alot of what has been said and I will admit that I think I have a clearer idea of what questions I need to ask and what I am looking for, I think I will steer clear of the barefoot ones for a while until I have a gauge of how my running is and also I have something to actually measure them against. Thanks all for your opinions and advice, I will probably post back after i have had my assessment with the verdict and also with what I end up getting (I like the look of the Mizuno ones, but ultimately fit will be a big factor), thanks again peeps and I hope you are all well.
IMO at least 90% of this thread is complete BS written by those that are cr4p runners anyway
Strong words Surf Matt but probably true
He's in the cooler for 2 days after a brush with the swear filter earlier.
Half of what he said in that post is true. I'm not saying which half I agree with though. 🙂
Probably all that barefoot running bul**** wound him up.
Thing is, if running barefoot was such a blimmin good idea, we would all wouldn't we? If you're that convinced, save £££'s and run barefoot, No? Thought not.
Hasn't anyone realised it's just another marketing niche for the manufacturers to exploit.
Better? Worse? No, different.
Barefoot running also makes people far more mellow, so they don't suffer from this issue 🙂
IMO at least 90% of this thread is complete BS written by those that are cr4p runners anyway. A few snippets of good advice but it's hard to find...
So what defines a "good" runner then?
lookmanohands - MemberIMO at least 90% of this thread is complete BS written by those that are cr4p runners anyway. A few snippets of good advice but it's hard to find...
So what defines a "good" runner then?
Overinflated opinion of self worth and called Matt? 🙂
😀
Barefoot running also makes people far more mellow, so they don't suffer from this issue
That would explain why most hippies eschew shoes.
So apart from the Vibram Five Fingers what decent "barefoot" shoes are out there?
Inov-8 are bringing some out soon. Evoskins? A lot cheaper than the Vibram.
Terra plana evos are worth a google Shandy, or maybe Mizuno wave universe 3 for something better known.
Or feelmax if you want something very thin.
"Barefoot" shoes? I run in these with no insoles, pretty minimal.
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I won the White Peak marathon earlier this year, i don't know if that's a good enough qualification to post Surf-Mat...?
What [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-question-for-the-stw-runners#post-2070417 ]Bomba said[/url].
It's taken me an ankle injury that's kept me out of running for the majority of 2010, and subsequently a great specialist physio who's opened my eyes to the body's capability, and the need for a thinner soled shoe to feel the ground as opposed to a over engineered running shoe that becomes a cast and lets your muscles degenerate.
I've switched to a certain type of cheap footwear - mimicing the Vibram 5 fingers but costing a tenth of, in order to simulate the barefoot running style but with some layer of protection for the sole, and am loving it.
The body knows how to run. Search YouTube for running style videos by Christopher McDougall (author of Born to Run). If you want to buy in to the expensive running shoe system that's fine, but it won't stop you from getting injuries.
[url=
McDougall YouTube vid[/url]
Thanks for the pointers, I think I might go the whole hog and get the Vibrams.
I like my Nike Red Rocks. I read all the stuff about barefoot / minimal cushioning running etc. and thought it made sense, but I found that whilst it was fine on the flat, running downhill with relatively little cushioning hammered my knees as they took almost all of the shock. Switching to something with some bounce to it let me heel strike a little when running downhill and made running a massively more pleasant experience.
That said, I'm a fairly casual runner, and Red Rocks aren't anywhere near as "off road" a shoe as some of the stuff posted here. That said, they work fine for my bridleway runs. It seems to be a very "horses for courses" thing - neither New Balance or Asics came anywhere near fitting me, so they were straight off the list.
ron jeremy, ok I withdraw my withdrawal. If you get on with the Harriers and know they fit, they often pop up cheaper here and there.
Sprints are 60 notes on here and KSOs are 70, thats a decent discount. It almost seems too good to be true...
The body knows how to run.
This is a myth imo.
you can try it for yourself - find a nice big room / warehouse / long corridor with a good hard floor.
take off your shoes, and start running - nice and slowly.
you'll be better than you expect.
Finbar - of course you do. Flipping (is that a swear word? 🙂 impressive.
Ask Andrew Murry on twitter
http://www.scotland2sahara.com/
he is in the middle of doing 3000 miles for charity, averaging 30-35 miles a day. So he may have an opinion on shoes.
So what is his opinion?!
Finbar, 3:10 off road? Very good 😆
take off your shoes, and start running - nice and slowly.you'll be better than you expect.
But do we have any feedback from competitive runners or those like me averaging 50 mpw?
Overinflated opinion of self worth and called Matt
The second time you've tried to get everyone's attention and been ignored there Boblo. Some issues by any chance? Mummy not giving you enough attention.
Anyway as clearly stated, I'm not hugely into running but do okay (just "okay") in 10k trail races. Some are VERY into running but get cr4p results. Some are very into into and get brilliant results (like Finbar and Surfer). These are the ones to listen to, not some all the gear no idea runner who isn't very good
Aaah Matt, back from exile. Good to see you back on the forum, thought I might be joining you on the naughty step yesterday.
Just joshing with you old son and you do bite rather easily 🙂
not some all the gear no idea runner who isn't very good
I have a pair of trainers....is that too much gear?
Just listen, don't argue/ask questions...
I've run a few sub three hour marathons in the past as a club runner. That's before I stopped running because of osteo-arthristis in both hips. Averaged over 50 miles a week for years peaking @ around 80 miles in marathon training. All I'd say is stick with good cushioning & don't listen to all this barefoot crap. The impact of the footstrike affects the whole body. I must also say that alot of my training was off road as well ...light permitting. Buy the best shoes you can afford & change them regularly depending on mileage ; I'd say every 6 months at least as a regular runner
Not sure Surf mat approves your sub 3:00 hour time, is it awesome enough? Only then will we know if your advice is worthy.
molgrips -The body knows how to run.
This is a myth imo.
Not really - run down the street in running trainers, then try the same stretch barefoot - whereas before you may be heel striking the ground, your body will automatically adjust to more of a mid/fore foot plant when running barefoot.
As I've experienced first hand, you may need to do some work in awakening certain muscle groups that haven't been used as much due to years of running in trainers, but the body does have a system in place to cope effectively with running without any aids.
"As I've experienced first hand, you may need to do some work in awakening certain muscle groups that haven't been used as much due to years of running in trainers, but the body does have a system in place to cope effectively with running without any aids."
Maybe....but it's still useless advice in the long term
djglover...do I need to provide evidence?
🙂 Don't ask me dude
D28boy - MemberMaybe....but it's still useless advice in the long term
why is it useless?
why is it useless?Re-read my post or don't ..it's up to you...it's your body...
Anyway I don't use tyres on my bike anymore... it just developed a system to cope effectively without them....oh & I fell off as well
Maybe....but it's still useless advice in the long term
Well I'm not here to give you advice, I was responding to molgrips' myth comment.
The idea that cushioned running trainers alleviates impact of footstrike doesn't take into account the whole picture. The cushioning which creates the barrier between foot and ground creates problems as there is a need for the foot to feel the ground, and the brain to recognise when that is happening. More cushioning = harder footstrike, generally on the heel = ankle injuries.
Personal choice though, but the switch is working for me.
(sighs)
your posts read:
"i was a good runner (you were), i love heel striking i do, now i've got arthritis in my hips, all this fore-foot advice is useless."
(i've summarised a little).
do you think the advice is useless - cos our bodies know how to do it anyway?
or do you think the advice is uselss - cos the very idea is silly?
(sub 3 hours is very impressive, your opinion carries weight)
I am just going for a run now....I just don't think I am going to enjoy it knowing that I am probably rubbish and not reaching for the max and pumping that burn...or something like that.
....I do enjoy being out in the countryside tho.
I do enjoy being out in the countryside tho
Best bit for me. I'm a half decent runner but can't be bothered with the competitiveness over times. Up early for a run in great surroundings is where the enjoyment lies for me, not shaving a couple of seconds off my 10k time.
Finbar, 3:10 off road? 😆
Thanks Surfer, it's a lot slower than the normal winning times for that race but it was about 30 degrees C, which suited me just fine and apparently didn't do the competition any favours.
Back on topic, i ordered some Vibram Fauxfingers from dealtoworld about a month ago. Worked out at ~£21 in total. If they ever turn up i'll post a review.
[url= http://www.dealtoworld.com/goods-19110-FiveFingers+Outdoor+Sport+Shoes+for+Female%EF%BC%88Male%EF%BC%89+-+Black+%28Size+45%29.html ]Linky[/url]
Ahwiles-I believe most quality trainer manufactures spend time & money developing their shoes so that the rotation of the foot on contact with the ground mimicks the foots natural action. Cushioning is simply that...an attempt to reduce the impact force on the body when this occurs. They manufacture shoes for specific purposes, weight reduction ultimately leads to quicker times but lighter shoes offer less protection & more vulnerability to injury long term. Race in lightweights train in more cushioned/heavier shoes would be my advice.Heel strike is different for runners of differing abilities. If you watch a middle distance athletes there is very little heel strike ...a jogger has a lot but shoe makers offer support in both area's.
I'm not saying I'm definitely right & they are wrong ...just that I believe if you're running any distance regularly on roads or hard trails a light/no shoe will lead to injuries/joint issues. Also have you ever stepped onto a flint on the ball of your foot in a light shoe when running/racing? That bruised bone can hurt for weeks!
Thanx for the comment of my opinion carrying weight...I'm noticing that more & more since I've stopped running.
Only wish I could still go out for a nice run in the country any time I wanted!
just that I believe if you're running any distance regularly on roads or hard trails a light/no shoe will lead to injuries/joint issues
Runners must have been completely crippled before the invention of super cushioned, advanced running shoes that's subsequently calmed the number of sustained injuries then? Oh...
Hey Jolsa- I'm not rising to your trol. I'm simply trying to offer my advice as someone who ran regulary for more than 20 years in response to a reasonable question. Take it or leave it
Lovely run in the countryside just now - it's reached a sweltering EIGHT degrees here! A random mixture of still solid/frozen ground and mud.
Nice and sunny too.
I think the Army term works well with running - unless an elite runner KISS.
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
Runners must have been completely crippled before the invention of super cushioned, advanced running shoes that's subsequently calmed the number of sustained injuries then? Oh...
Some where some werent. The attrition rate was high however. As someone who believes that athletes years ago (UK) trained harder, were faster and tougher than today I still believe that cushioned shoes (to a greater or lesser degree) help many people remain injury free and make running more accesible to more people.
your sub 3:00 hour time, is it awesome enough
But theres sub 3 hrs and sub 3 hrs 😉
Hey SM, have you got any pictures of roads to show how good a runner you are? Y'know, like those pictures of the sea you put up recently 🙂
Quick check on boblo's previous posts (who you ask? Yes I wondered too).
Every SINGLE stalker geek box ticked.
Stroll on laddio.
Next.
Surfer - pic not working. I ran with the mutt too - always fun.
Bingo! 🙂
I see - a victory through being an anonymous stalker nerd.
Interesting...