[Closed] A question for the STW runners

Salomon Speed Cross or XT Wings (hybrid).

No experience of Inov8 but their stuff is supposedly quite good.

muti surface, depends on gait. Could go for ASICS Torana, they are good on road / hardpack and a little bit of mud. I love mine. For full on Fell running I've got Inov8 Flyrock, take any recommendations for Inov8 with a pinch of salt, they are great for fells and mostly awful on the road I find, plus you'll need to be an experienced forefoot runner to get the most out of them.

The torana are really good for trail / road mix 'cos they are my road shoe with a more aggressive tread

I use Roclite 295s and love them to bits....they are more for [s]80/20[/s] 90/10 off road/road I would say.

Thing is if it is dry any trainer will be fine off road.....add water tho and it is a different matter.

Salomon Speed Cross for multi surface? I'll give them 2 weeks.

Sounds like XT wings are what you're after.

I use inov8 and will keep doing so - you really need to try some different brands on though to see which feel right for you.

My full on mud trail shoes are Inov8 Mudclaws which are great for their purpose. Salomon Speed Cross 2s do the job for all round trail running. Light, comfy, excellent grip but too soft for too much tarmac.

Mudclaws here too.

Personally I think XT wings are hideous off road (and on for that matter). Did less than a mile before I'd had enough of them. Bit like wearing rigid clogs with a massive wide heel seeming serving no purpose but to twist your ankles. But your mileage may vary 🙂

Thing is if it is dry any trainer will be fine off road.....add water tho and it is a different matter.

Hmm, not sure about that. Fell shoes like the Inov8 s described above tend to be 'lower slung' than 'normal' trainers and so give a bit more stability on rough ground - imagine running on high heels.

I really like Montrail Highlanders but they don't make them any more 🙁
Inov8 seem to be taking over the market and have a vast range. They've prompted Walsh to update their design but the suggestion is it's too little too late. There is a rumour of a full-on Salomon fell shoe coming which should be much better than what they've had before and a competitor for the Inov8 range - maybe more than you need though. My advice would be to avoid running on roads if you have a choice 🙂

I'm off to get my running assessed next week

Hmm...

I'm of the opinion that you don't need your running assessed. Unless it's someone entirely independent telling you that you're running wrong.

I'm possibly going to come across all conspiracy theory or hippy, but the concept of someone telling you that you need stability / motion control / cushioned, etc, benefits only the shop and the running shoe companies.

There is a gradually growing body of evidence that suggests that the less cushioning the better (eg, http://www.inov-8.com/News-Detail.asp?L=26&NID=342). Heavy cushioning in shoes is a recent (last 20-30 years or so) phenomenon. Humans were designed to run barefoot and have coped fine for millenia. The legs, when given the chance, are wonderful at absorbing the impacts of running - just don't land heel first.

To that end, first stop is to look at your running technique. First step would be to read Gordon Pirie's book (free):

There are loads of books on the subject (eg, Danny Dreyer). As a simple point, just watch the Africans run and take note. Lightweight, thin-soled shoes are the way forward.

Anyway, enough of my trying to educate and change the running world...

The answer to your question is a bit tricky.

what I should be looking for, mostly running on road but with a combination of bridleways, farmtracks and grassy hills thrown in as well.

To put it in mountain bike terms, you've just asked what tyres for mostly riding on road, oh, but they have to be good on grass and bridleways (you can run on footpaths too, you know 🙂 )?

You're going to end up with a bit of a compromise, but something along these lines would be perfect: http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Detail.asp?PG=PG1&P=5050973021&L=26

Apologies for the ramble.

i use saucony grizzly trail they suit me as I have fat feet! I had never heard of saucony but I really like them!

Nick

Trouble is, you want a shoe for hardpack (farm tracks/bridleways) and presumably on grassy hills you will on occasion be descending steep wet grass. Additionally I see no mention of the need for a full on mud shoe some have called out above.

The stuff that works well on hard pack doesn't neccesarily work well on steep grass... E.g. the Trailquesters 'favourite'; Salomon XA's are great on bridleways, hardpack etc but a bit errr, lethal on steep grass.

Given the above, I think I'd be inclined towards the XT Wings or Inov8 Flyroc though the latter dunt have much in the way of cushioning if you're doing mainly hardpack. Bomba may have a point about how we are 'designed' but I prefer a bit of cushioning when running on hard surfaces. I usually need a volume reducer in the Flyroc as well as they are higher volume than my feet. Helps with the cushioning.

BTW. don't get GTX lined ones. They just keep water in and take an age to dry out.

By the sounds of things you dont need "fell" shoes just go for a comfortabel trainer with a slightly more aggresive outersole like the Pegasus which cope very well with the mixed terrain you describe.

Fell shoes are normally ideal for serious climbing and decending and designed to keep your foot low to the ground to prevent sliding and twisting. This mean little cushioning compared to an Asics/Adidas/Nike trainer.

I had never heard of saucony but I really like them!

Very good quality and fantastic fit. Cant recomend them enough if they suit you.
I recall being at a Bulmers series of 5 milers years and years ago and Steve Ovett tuned up in a pair of them. It was at the end of his career (he still ran 22 mins that day to win!) and he was out of contract with Nike and he had bought them himself!!! needless to say they offered him sponsorship.

I knew everyone would recommend inov8. if you do get some, be prepared to take some time off injured or build up very slowly into getting used to them, especially if you run on the road with them!

I echo what bomba has talked about. I used to wear specialist orthotics for 10 years every day and since I have been running in minimalist shoes, have got rid of them.

If you are new to minimalist running you want to take it easy or you could end up getting injured.

My trail running shoes are inov8 f-lite 230's which are great. the heel is still built up a bit too much for my liking, but they are grippy while also being flexible.

I knew everyone would recommend inov8

It's cause they are wikid.

....plus you can get good deals on last years models. I just got another pair of 295s for £45 from Sportshoes.com.

I love my Inov-8 Mudrocs, though I'm not really a runner. They're very good on the bike too: did both Kielder 100s in mine.

Djg has a good point. Inov8s are quite brutal. Little or no padding, very minimalist. They take some getting.g used to and will cause blisters. If you are serious about running, hang in there but be wary of being put off. While my Mudclaws are great, they kill my calves for the first few runs. Once used to them, they are fine.

I went for the less hardcore Roclites for more all round trail stuff and could not get on with them. The Salomon Speedcross 2s are lighter, slightly padded and just as grippy. They also have Salomons superb speedlace system. Inov8s have crap laces. Highly recommend Lock laces from Wiggle for them. Vastly improved my Mudclaws and road shoes and very handy for triathlons.

The Salomon Speedcross 2s are lighter, slightly padded and just as grippy. They also have Salomons superb speedlace system. Inov8s have crap laces. Highly recommend Lock laces from Wiggle for them. Vastly improved my Mudclaws and road shoes and very handy for triathlons.

Blah blah blah 😉

Jamie - just balancing the Inov8 obsession a bit. They don't suit everyone...

As others have said, be realistic about what you're going to run on and what your needs are. Like tyres, if you buy something with big knobbly rubber fell running soles they will be horribly squirmy on the road (where you say most of your running will be done).

Fit will be the most important criteria in choosing a shoe, but it sounds like you're headed in the right direction already by going to a running shop. A decent shop should be able to point you in the direction of a shoe that fits well and works with your intended mix of terrain.

Jamie - just balancing the Inov8 obsession a bit. They don't suit everyone...

Not really an obsession as there has been about 3 recommendations? Anyways, ragging on the laces seems a bit much.

I'd avoid Adidas Kanadias... great off road, but on tarmac they're lethal - completely unpredictable grip. Perfect for running round the local park but I have to run very carefully to get there.

I started running earlier this year, in some Asics from Decathlon.

When I realised that I quite enjoy it, I bought some Adidas Supernovas, which are a road type shoe with a bit more off-road tread pattern.

My LRS (see what I did there?) said that unless I was doing all off-road cross country wet muddy stuff, road shoes are still the right footwear, for firmer paths, tracks etc. I try to stick to off road wherever possible and these have been good so far.

I tend to do 6 - 9 milers on tracks, bridleways, footpaths and fields with the obligatory linking road sections. With some good off-road hills too!

I also use the Asics for shorter more road type training runs, which is apparently better than sticking to one pair of shoes.

I've realised that the running world is a lot more technical when you get into the detail, very much like bikes, and I'm sure that most of it is blarney sales talk. Sure, there have been some improvements, but "which shoes for....." struck me as a bit odd being as it's all just running.

So, I agree with what bomba says to a large extent.

as for Lock Laces....they were great in the off-road duathlon I did in October, but less good for longer xc runs as I can't get the right tension lower down my foot as the elastic tends to give a bit too much, and the shoe feels a bit loose towards the toes.

[i]mostly running on road but with a combination of bridleways, farmtracks and grassy hills[/i]

You don't specialist off road shoes for the type of running you're aiming to do. Ok, you might slip a bit on the grassy hills...mleh.

I used to be of the opinion that running assessment was rubbish, but I've changed my view on it, the ideal is running without pain, not necessarily running on a particular part of your foot, if you get a shoe that allows you to do that, then all it's all good.

Bomba, what may have been true of our prehistoric ancestors may not be true now, I doubt many would want to run barefoot on tarmac for very long.

Bomba, what may have been true of our prehistoric ancestors may not be true now, I doubt many would want to run barefoot on tarmac for very long.

"Barefoot" doesn't necessarily mean no shoes.

May I Hijack ?

Does the snow/icey pavements stop you guys running?

Or do you use trail shoes on the snow/slush/ice?

Haven't got out in the last week (having only just got into running in the past few months) and really missing it.

On sheet ice there is little that will help, trail shoes will help in snow slush though.

do you run at the moment? there are better places than stw to get advice.
do you just want another kit hungry hobby? buy the expensive ones recommended above.

Does the snow/icey pavements stop you guys running?

As soon as the snow on pavements gets compressed I don't think it's worth the risk running on it.

To keep me running I'll do hill or sprint sessions in a park or field.

Does the snow/icey pavements stop you guys running?

Nope

Mr surfer would you be so kind as to give more details.

Where d'you run the beach, fields, on the semi clear road. Or do you just take it slow and steady on the pavement

what people miss when they harp on about barefoot running is that you still need some cushioning when running on roads. Our ancestors may well have run well barefoot, but across open plains where no cushioning is needed. I use minimal cushioning on the fells, but if I'm going anywhere near the road or hardpack for most of the run then I'll thank the last 20-30 years with of developments that mean I can have my shins and knees intact.

Does the snow/icey pavements stop you guys running?

Nope. [url= http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Detail.asp?L=26&PG=PG1&P=5050973021 ]These[/url] are surprisingly grippy on the hardpacked ice.

Failing that, XC spikes if its really bad, but never bought any myself.

Where d'you run the beach, fields, on the semi clear road. Or do you just take it slow and steady on the pavement

I'm fortunate enough to live somewhere where I can get the mileage in and its sufficiently lit with streetlights for evening training. Near my house is very icy so its just a case of taking it easy for a bit then increasing the pace when its clear enough.
If its light or at weekends most of my running is a mix of rads and off road unless its a specific session so I will do intervals or hills on a road or ground that is safe.
If I cant find any then just steady running until things improve.

I use Saucony Jazz trainers for a mixture of on / off road. Cheap, and very good.

Your not actually doing much offroad from what your saying so a normal trainer would probably be better than anything resembling an off road shoe.

Just get out and run too, People worry far too much these days about their running style and which trainer they can have, maybe its just anal mountain bikers though... certainly none of the local running club people seem as bothered as half the people here.

Just get out and run too, People worry far too much these days about their running style and which trainer they can have, maybe its just anal mountain bikers though... certainly none of the local running club people seem as bothered as half the people here.

Yep

what people miss when they harp on about barefoot running is that you still need some cushioning when running on roads. Our ancestors may well have run well barefoot, but across open plains where no cushioning is needed. I use minimal cushioning on the fells, but if I'm going anywhere near the road or hardpack for most of the run then I'll thank the last 20-30 years with of developments that mean I can have my shins and knees intact.

Nope, plenty of people running marathons and long road runs barefoot and with minimalist shoes.

Nope, plenty of people running marathons and long road runs barefoot and with minimalist shoes.

Other than Bikila can you point to any competitive marathon runners competing barefoot?

[i]I use minimal cushioning on the fells, but if I'm going anywhere near the road or hardpack for most of the run then I'll thank the last 20-30 years with of developments that mean I can have my shins and knees intact.[/i]

One wonders how on earth people managed to run before the 70s 🙂
Oh and try finding a manufacturer who will actually claim their shoes will do anything to keep your knees and shins intact 🙂

One wonders how on earth people managed to run before the 70s

In the same way that people cycled. However I suspect your bike looks more like a 21st C one than a 1960's model.
The fact that people ran in the 60's (and in many cases quicker than they do now but thats a different story) doesnt mean the changes in equipment since then havent been largely for the good.

[i]The fact that people ran in the 60's (and in many cases quicker than they do now but thats a different story) doesnt mean the changes in equipment since then havent been largely for the good.[/i]

Quite true, However it doesn't mean they have been largely for the good.
It does means it's very difficult to draw conclusions either way. Of course the first problem being even deciding on a common meaning of the word good 🙂

However it doesn't mean they have been largely for the good.

Maybe its best if you identify a "bad" one?