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In Scots law the equivalent of burglary is housebreaking. That won’t apply as it requires an intent to steal
So in Scotland you're free to go and hang out in other people's houses when they're not there? Even if you don't know them or have their permission? What an incredibly hospitable country!! 🙂
So in Scotland you’re free to go and hang out in other people’s houses when they’re not there? Even if you don’t know them or have their permission? What an incredibly hospitable country!!
years ago it used to be called a new years day party.
Yes, someone could’ve been getting the use, but they weren’t, and?
and it's a bit of a waste, like I said.
I can’t see the issue.
and?
Does that logic apply to anything you have lying around….such as a book you have already paid for but are not currently using…
Anything left to neglect for 20 years that someone else could have got use out of, yes.
I’m sure some land lords would be happy to rent out a hovel….. I’m sure folks would actually pay to rent it even sans floors in that London.
I'm sure it would have been in a non-hovel state if it had been looked after and occupied for the previous 20 years.
Or do you fire sale all your assets rather than repair when they get worn out ?
I don't generally keep things I don't use for that length of time, especially when someone else could get use out of it.
Is Mcmoonter still on the run?
I think you are taking the correct route with the crime number as it helps with leverage on the agent / owner. (I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with a lettings agent).
I do however have sympathy with whomever instructed the work. The work may have needed doing quickly, and although you consider it easy obvious to find out the owners / your details to ask permission the person instructing the works may not. Such is common sense, it is not that common.as for the standard of work, it may be a get a get it fixed and make it good late when /if required. I am sure it will all be sorted once the owner is awear you are renovating the flat.
One man's 'manky, derelict flat', will in time be habitable again. If ever I needed a carrot, that's it right there in black and white.
While I get the moral criticism of leaving a building vacant for a long time, it did need work when we closed the door back then and we simply had too many other projects and issues competing for our attention. The only modernisation since the building was constructed in the early 1800s was the addition of a water closet in the 1890s and a stainless steel sink in the 1980s
In retrospect our inaction and our determination to hang on to it has seen its value increase by more than its rental could have generated. As I said earlier, once completed it should provide some security for my niece.
It's your flat you can leave it empty for ever, it's your choice, but that's some funny logic! The rental generated would be in addition to the increase in value!
Update update
i called 101, the Police were helpful. We discussed the protocol for their attendance of an emergency entry to staunch a leak. They had no record of a phone call being made to them. So the contractor or it’s agent made the decision to gain access without going through to proper channels
The call handler said it would be a civil issue and that I would need to contact my lawyer to follow it up with the plumber, letting agent and landlord
I was given a reference number, not an incident number
I then called the letting agency, they put me through to their maintenance dept, who quite honestly sounded non plussed, but said they would investigate what had happened
I gave them the Police reference number. I asked for the landlord’s details, they said they would forward them.
I have another contact who should be able to supply me with the landlord’s details which I’m about to follow up. I think the direct approach will be more efficient. The agent will already be in cover up mode. I wouldn’t want an agent representing me who would act in such a manner
Any advice based on the above would be welcome
As of the close of business today, I've heard nothing back from the agent.
I only have the name of the landlord which I got from the landlord register with Edinburgh Council. I understood he was a farmer in the Borders, the only one I found on Google had sold a farm in 2016 and their telephone number is not recognised
Think I'd be putting it in writing/formally to the agency if you haven't already. They'll be the ones that instructed the work, aren't they? Be clear about the resolution you require, and a timetable for completing it. I can't see that they have any wriggle room at all (but Edinburgh agent...)
Who was it that said the simplest explanation is usually the right one?
It does seem likely that whoever did the work, however carelessly and poorly, didn’t expect they were treading on anyone’s toes, perhaps “getting that plumbing done for the nice flat, we’ll just pop into that derelict property below - we haven’t seen anyone there in years and it’s always been a pain”. I dunno. But you dunno either. Maybe landlord knows nothing of these details. Might be a nice bloke. Assume good intentions and innocence first, and see how you get on.
I think at this point I would be getting in a contractor (chosen by you) to give you a quote for making good - including pipework, window, plastering etc. Which will also "officially" document the damage done.
At least that way you will be able to tell then what it is (ie: amount of cash) that you expect in compensation.
The agent will want to send their (original) contractor around to do the works at no cost to them, but there is no way I wold be allowing that.
Also, the quote(s) from reputable firms will for the basis of any small-claims type proceedings that you may have to initiate to motivate the various parties.
I do think it's possible to do all this without being a dick about it - as others have said above, it's likely the owner didn't know anything about it.
I'm not sure how the police can get away with calling it a civil matter, if damage has been caused both entering the flat and to the ceiling once they got there.
Capping off the offending new pipework would probably elicit a swifter response. I may have missed something, but is the flat above occupied?
I agree with twicewithchips and batfink.
If you cap off the waste outlet, you're likely to have further damage when the shower tray or whatever overflows.
I'd be tempted to go and speak to the tenant of the upstairs flat and see if you can have a look at the cause. I'll wager a plinth was needed for a previous shower tray waste and they changed the tray without the plinth! So they decided to steal some of your flat to accommodate the waste pipe.
cheeky beggars.
Mmmm 2016 . The farm wasn't near Bonchester bridge was it?
Oh an DC 100th says that it's not a civil matter it's a break in and damage. Laws have been broken . Might not be high priority but not civil matter.
Letter to agent by registered post.
State your your current attempts to gain information from them and their failure. State your requirements and expectations of timeline. State the consequence of failure ( maybe instructing a solicitor small claims court or Scottish equivalent ). Leave multi forms of contact available, if possible not your home address but it depends on how you feel about this.
Talk to the tennant above you, explain why your upset and make sure they have you contact information for future use.
Pay your own contractor to make good the damage whilst keeping the shower above working.
Write to the letting agent enclosing bill for making good the damage and re-securing property. Ask for the details of the plumber to pass on to the police for breaking and entering.
Innocent tenant gets what they want, you get a proper job done, karma restored. If you get repaid for the damage, that's a bonus, likewise the police having a word with the plumber.
Build more holzhausen.
Pay your own contractor to make good the damage whilst keeping the shower above working
^ nope, I wouldn't be doing that. Particularly as you're in no hurry to get the work done. Not only are you then out of pocket, but you also lose the only leverage you have, which is: "either you pay to make good, or I will be removing all the offending pipework".
As I said, no need to be a dick about it, but there is also no need to be a chump.
Thanks for the advice above folks. I've got to dash out the door now, but a neighbour just forwarded me what she hopes is the landlord's email address. I doubt that he knows anything of what has happened other than being issued with an invoice from the letting agent for the 'repair'.
I will write to both the letting agent and the landlord when I get back in.
Yesterday I went to Register House to get a copy of the deeds to check on any right they had of access to the pipe. There is nothing I could see that said they had.
The very helpful lady there with her specs on a chain gasped when read the purchase price back in 1976 for our four roomed flat in Sockbridge as £850
I may be missing something, but if the shower drain was leaking, isn't breaking into the property below (if that's the way to resolve it) the right thing to do if no contact can be made with the owner? Obviously the damage/long term solution should be rectified as well (which doesn't appear to have happened), but minimizing the impact of the leak seems like a sensible thing to do..
I've written a civil email to the landlord, detailing how we found the break in, communications with the Police and his letting agent (who I still heard nothing back from) along with photographs.
I have asked that he simply take the opportunity to make good the damage caused while our space is vacant before we have to resort to legal action and all the hassle and needless expense that will bring.
I pondered today how house prices have escalated. My folks bought the space in 1976 for £850. In 1982, my first year at Art College, my annual grant was £400, I was expected to find accommodation, feed and clothe myself, buy materials and travel on £400 for an academic year. In 1985 I bought my first mountainbike. It cost just shy of £400 with my staff discount and some accessories from Robin Williamson Cycles. My fiscal outlook is still based on those numbers.
Update, Update Update
Fifteen minutes after sending my email to the landlord he called me back. He was apologetic and extremely anxious that he get things sorted. We have a meeting planned for Thursday morning.
That’s good news, McMoonter.
Letting agents really are shisters. When we moved out of our last place the agent tried to sting us for all sorts of stuff. The a day after I replied challenging the obvious lies and saying I’d dig out the 100+ photos we too upon arrival to check the less clear stuff, I got a follow up email saying they weren’t going to charge for anything.
Simply, she’d just tried to defraud me and the most basic challenge made it go away. I’d bet a lot of money the landlord was unaware of any of it. It just seems to be the MO of letting agents. Even the estate agent who sold us our own home was sympathetic, and he works with letting agents!
Good news the owner of the property seems willing to discuss resolving the issue.
Stockbridge is a lovely part of Edinburgh my wee sister has a flat down there - nightmare to get parked where she is but the park near by and the water of Leith are brilliant for taking my daughter for a wander when we go to visit.
I lived in Stockbridge when it was still a bit of a slum - well before all the antique shops etc. We had a great childhood.
I pondered today how house prices have escalated. My folks bought the space in 1976 for £850. In 1982, my first year at Art College, my annual grant was £400, I was expected to find accommodation, feed and clothe myself, buy materials and travel on £400 for an academic year. In 1985 I bought my first mountainbike. It cost just shy of £400 with my staff discount and some accessories from Robin Williamson Cycles.
This is amazing. It really shows how much things have changed!!
Building control might be worth a shout, that's illegal building work contravening a few laws/regulations. If it's a proper contractor been appointed then there are issues under CDM and you might find that the local authority might want to help you. Call building standards and see what they say.
Good luck sorting it out!
In 1982, my first year at Art College, my annual grant was £400
That wasn't a full grant though was it? (iirc). Was full grant (remember that kids 🙂 ) not about 3x that in '82? I think my Saracen Conquest was about 500squids from Rob's a few years later
My flat in Newington was £72k in 2000
Worth ~£200k now
Name and shame the letting agent.
Leffeboy, you are right. My memory is fading. It was £400 per term, so £1200 an academic year.
I had a meeting with the landlord and my architect this morning. The latter is going to draw up a strategy which should help us both
The landlord was a really nice guy, I think we can work efficiently together
My architect confirmed that the letting agent is renowned for being amongst the worst in Edinburgh for this type of action
Still no explanation, apology or promise to make good their handiwork
Anyone considering using D J Alexander as a letting agent would be well advised to seek another elsewhere
Letting agents really are shisters.
They are indeed the worst of all agents, and that's saying something.
McMoonter wrote.
"In 1985 I bought my first mountainbike. It cost just shy of £400 with my staff discount and some accessories from Robin Williamson Cycles."
I bought my first MTB from there around the same time. A red Specialized Rockhopper. There was a weekly outing up the Pentlands and other ventures further afield at the weekend. I used to meet up with Robin's younger brother for the weekend ride-outs (can't remember his name) Another regular face had a wee bike shop down in Newhaven. #Flashbacks
D.
I'd always heard Grant Management were the worst, but that's not a particularly exclusive title
I bought my first MTB from there around the same time. A red Specialized Rockhopper
Checks photos...
Davesport, Leffeboy, CynicAl and I may well have ridden with you back in the day. it was Robin's brother Phil who gave me my job there. About a week before I started working with them someone (Deja vu) broke into the same flat from this thread and stole my Colnago road bike. Phil helped me with the insurance claim, my heart was set on a Crane Bros style Saracen Conquest, but Phil had just come back from a trade show having seen the first Rockhoppers. I got the first one in the country. The blue ones with the bullmoose bars. I later had it sprayed Ordinance Survey pink with eventually lime green forks when I got roller cam brake bosses brazen on.
Phil and I organised midweek and weekend rides through the shop. Can you imagine a bike shop these days closing on a Wednesday? I still ride with those same guys.
Iain George was the guy who came out with us. He opened the shop in Newhaven. He was a legend. A vegan who rode thousands of miles a year in Levi's and canvas tennis shoes.
His aim for his shop was to get the masses on to bikes. It mostly morphed into an outlet for ultra discounted Super Record group sets. The last I heard he set off by bike for France to go house hunting.
ISTR there was an article in the Edinburgh evening news with a picture taken of an early group of MTB riders of the Pentlands. That was all the inspiration I needed. I went to RW's shop and had a look at the Rockhopper & the Stumpjumper. The RH was IRO £350 & by the time I had mudguards, rack, light and a pump, I'd blown £400 quid on a bicycle which seemed outrageous at the time. I simply couldn't stretch to the SJ which I seem to remember being £500 quid. I've got photo's somewhere of the bike in my mums kitchen. The "Bullmoose" bars you refer to? My bars and stem were combined and joined together. I think we're talking about the same thing.
Iain George was the guy who came out with us. He opened the shop in Newhaven. He was a legend. A vegan who rode thousands of miles a year in Levi’s and canvas tennis shoes.
That's him. I don't know where he joined the ride, but Phil & I parked my Landrover in Cramond and met someone on the other side of the Forth Bridge one Sunday. Iain was there amongst others. We stopped at a pub somewhere for a bite to eat and a pint. Whoever it was we met knew all the local trails in Fife and links in between. It was a truly epic day out and a struggle for Phil and I coming back across the bridge, wind in the teeth.
The annoying thing is I can't remember what I did with that bike. Must have sold it on at some point.
Crikey, I feel so old :o)
Did that guy ride a Ridgeback by any chance? I bow to MC's memory on this stuff
Think they could have done some extra work for you while they were in there, in accordance with Pratchett:
“Although not common on the Discworld there are, indeed such things as anti-crimes, in accordance with the fundamental law that everything in multiverse has an opposite. They are, obviously, rare. Merely giving someone something is not the opposite of robbery; to be an anti-crime, it has to be done in such a way as to cause outrage and/or humiliation to the victim. So there is a breaking-and-decorating, proffering-with-embarrassment (as in most retirement presentations) and whitemailing (as in threatening to reveal to his enemies a mobster’s secret donations, for example, to charity). Anti-crimes have never really caught on.”
- Reaper Man
Thread hijack sorry, Mcmoonter how long did it take you to ride across the States?
Can you imagine a bike shop these days closing on a Wednesday?
My LBS does this.
Davesport, how OCD am I that I can remember that ride from more than thirty years ago too. The guy who showed us the trails was called Ron, he rode a first generation Ridgeback. RIdgeback Ron. He took us on trails that went around Hillend before the bypass was built, along towards Aberdour, up to the quarry near Mossmorran, over to Blairadam and Knockhill and back to the Forth Road Bridge.
Early in the ride I pinch flatted both rims on a rock denting both rims and I had to ride most of the loop with little or no braking. I remember the following weekend we had planned an ascent and descent of Ben Nevis so it was a race to get some replacement rims and the wheels rebuilt.
Phil was a couple of years older than me. Sadly he died about ten years ago. I'll never forget his wife phoning me to say he wouldn't make the ride we had planned on the evening he collapsed having ridden home from work. He was an inspiration to a generation of riders, I think about him on every ride
Pigface, our Trans America ride took 79 days. That included a few days off seeing friends and a spell when Aimee was injured before her flight home. I think there were only a couple of shortish 50 mile days in the mix, the majority were in the 65 -100 mile average. If you need any advice, give me a shout
I think Mike Hall rode the 4500 miles in 16 days
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/guestbook/?o=1mr&doc_id=8912&v=1FG
RIdgeback Ron
Excellent - my memory isn't completely shot then. Strangely you could ask me about something I did a month ago and not a chance but I remember bits of that ride
I pondered today how house prices have escalated. My folks bought the space in 1976 for £850. In 1982, my first year at Art College, my annual grant was £400
Later edited to £1200 annually.
Kind of makes it understandable why the current snowflake generation are a touch peed off with their deal!
Imagine getting PAID to study, a large enough sum to go out and buy a flat in a slightly scummy part of town...
Equivalent today must be getting a grant of £75K or so...
Imagine getting PAID to study, a large enough sum to go out and buy a flat in a slightly scummy part of town…
To be fair it was actually his folks that bought the place 8 years earlier iirc