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Soon, hardly any young person will have the chance of owning a home. The only ones who will own their homes will be the ones who were given them by the previous generation. The generation who picked theirs up for beer money.
But yeah, young people are definitely lazier than those virile gods of economic productivity, the baby boomers.
Soon? The current generation aren't inheriting houses, they're inheriting debt.
To be fair, he was damned from the moment he referred to it as a “property”.
True. Burn him.
Burn Mcmoonter? What could we possibly use for fuel...?
My comment wasn't meant as any sort of personal attack, just pointing out that the figures written down like that are unimaginable today.
The world has changed. It's the fault of many different factors, not just some boomers getting lucky with property.
Also, many kids today simply have no idea just how little the boomers had growing up, and how damn hard lots of them will have grafted to retire comfortably today. Far from black and white...
Now, what could I buy for ten grand or so today that'll be worth a bazillion Britcoins for my children when they retire?
Also, if we're having a Mcmoonter burnin', never mind him leaving a flat empty, he's referred to it as a space. Get the fire going with his own feng shui oil supply!!!!
Yes, and the boomers had no idea how little their parents had, and their parents had no idea how little their parents had, and their parents had no idea how little their parents had, etc.
Doesn't change the fact that standards of living have been falling for the longest period since records began. And it doesn't look like it's going to get any better any time soon.
But yeah, greed is good, no such thing as society, and all that other good stuff from the 80s when the boomers were settled in nice jobs having bought houses for peanuts.
Soon, hardly any young person will have the chance of owning a home.
I'm fortunate enough to earn a significant amount by most people's standards, and my wife also works 0.6 FTE. We've only just been able to afford our first home here in Australia in our mid 30s as we've had no inheritance or help from parents. Granted, it is a nice house in a pleasant town a short freeway journey away from Adelaide, but if you need a home big enough for a family whilst also having a suitable space to work from home, you're looking at the thick end of $0.5m anywhere in Adelaide, and that's pretty much the cheapest major city in Australia.
However, looking for 3-4br houses in Bolton, my home town, was even more depressing. God knows how anyone on anything like the average wage for that area could buy a shed at today's prices, never mind a family home. Christ, my parents' very small 3-bed semi in Horwich is worth about GBP200k now they have a conservatory. It's absolutely nuts.
There is no doubt the 'boomers' are going to reap the benefits at the expense of the younger generation.
There is a woman who I work with who does my admin. She gets paid less than half what I do yet her pension will be far greater than mine as she is lucky enough to be on a completely unsustainable scheme.
Likewise she lives is a house significantly bigger than mine that she bought for peanuts.
Am I jealous.. A bit.. But I also realise that I'm lucky enough to at least own a property whilst many won't be able to in future. I have a massive bug bear with buy to let's.. A prime example of affluent folks getting richer directly at the expense of those less well off. I personally think it should not be allowed.
"I have a massive bug bear with buy to let’s.. A prime example of affluent folks getting richer directly at the expense of those less well off. I personally think it should not be allowed."
so who indeed should own the properties that those that require to be mobile and not fixed to a property to rent ?
owning isnt for everyone - and the government hasnt got two halfpennys to rub together.
i guess massive co-operations should own them and they should get rich instead of just the affluent....
dont forget its not all sunshine and rainbows . I know of one STW landlord whos had a significant empty period locally because rental demand has dropped off significantly - landlords do also take significant risk for their return - and the return i see isnt all that great tbh - you really are reliant on property prices continuing to climb - and thats unsustainable due to wage stagnation.
as for prices , this island is buggered up - as alluded to earlier either in here or another thread by someone - france. britany - 3 bed on 1/3rd acre for 33k. my parents are selling up their house in the uk and moving to south of france - 5 beds en suites , period property with significant land , cellars and garage 90K euros.... they are going to open it as a gite style subsistance property having spent the last 10 or so years holidaying all over france on the motorbike.
and the government hasnt got two halfpennys to rub together.
And yet found £445 billion for QE, a billion or so for their mates in Norn Ireland, and just threw £70 million or so at Syria...
we (the wealthy West) have largely lost sight of what a house is for.
Letting agents really are shisters
Agreed. I let a house in Colchester and did a tour of all the letting agents in town to see what deal could be reached as I already had a tenant. Only one agent was interested and they turned out to be great to deal with; I ended up selling the property through them.
The agent I used beforehand were awful. Checks weren't done, tenants were shite (one did a runner with a bed, another had an aggressive dog despite the 'no pets' rule) and when I had a problem the senior staff refused to talk to me. I was glad when they went bust.
Did that guy ride a Ridgeback by any chance? I bow to MC’s memory on this stuff
Honestly no idea but McMoonters reply below sheds some light on this.
Davesport, how OCD am I that I can remember that ride from more than thirty years ago too. The guy who showed us the trails was called Ron, he rode a first generation Ridgeback. RIdgeback Ron. He took us on trails that went around Hillend before the bypass was built, along towards Aberdour, up to the quarry near Mossmorran, over to Blairadam and Knockhill and back to the Forth Road Bridge.
Early in the ride I pinch flatted both rims on a rock denting both rims and I had to ride most of the loop with little or no braking. I remember the following weekend we had planned an ascent and descent of Ben Nevis so it was a race to get some replacement rims and the wheels rebuilt.
Phil was a couple of years older than me. Sadly he died about ten years ago. I’ll never forget his wife phoning me to say he wouldn’t make the ride we had planned on the evening he collapsed having ridden home from work. He was an inspiration to a generation of riders, I think about him on every ride
Damn! That's sad news about Phil. I can't remember much about him other than that he was in my recollection one of the good guys. He turned up when he said he would and was great fun to be around. My overriding memory of that ride was being absolutely buckled on the way home. No energy whatsoever. Getting back over the bridge was a huge relief. The other popular meeting point was up near Bonaly. I'm out of the UK at the moment but will find some pictures of the bike once I get home. Treasured memories & now hacked off I couldn't be bothered taking a camera with me on those rides.
D.
Treasured memories & now hacked off I couldn’t be bothered taking a camera with me on those rides
Yep, that stuff is funny. You never know when you are going to be on a 'classic' ride. I try to always have a real camera with me now but a phone does do it at a pinch these days
I was going to look through a lot of my old scans last night to see if you were in them but then I realised that I had the laptop with them on stolen before I got it backed up. At least I've still got the slides but will just need to go through it all again
@leffeboy If you come across anything I'd be very interested. I've got some clear shots of the bike, Landrover & me (with hair) in period dress which consisted of jeans and a jumper from Leith Army-Navy store. To be posted here once I get home :o)
Was your Land Rover a Series III 109 in camouflage or navy paint? I have a recollection of it, and once meeting such a Land Rover on what was to become the cycle path to Newhaven Granton whilst it was still just a disused railway line, urban off roading.
Is this possibly you?
BeforeLycra (tm)
Gravel bikes 🙂
Judging by that photo the three brethren have been restacked .
Gravel bikes
Good point. I suspect a lot of gravel tyres are as wide as those now 🙂
That photo, they're holzhausen aren't they. ....;)
Was your Land Rover a Series III 109 in camouflage or navy paint? I have a recollection of it, and once meeting such a Land Rover on what was to become the cycle path to Newhaven Granton whilst it was still just a disused railway line, urban off roading.
Haha! Yes 109 S3 in standard blue LR paint, white hard top with windows. Every possibility that was me as I was based in Trinity at the time.
Is this possibly you?
That's not me but the bike is V. similar to the one in the foreground. Can you identify anyone in the photo?
Thx, Dave.
Doesn’t change the fact that standards of living have been falling for the longest period since records began. And it doesn’t look like it’s going to get any better any time soon.
Is that because we only just started measuring or because the measurement is poor? Or are you twisting some stats that suggest a very gentle prolonged drop is somehow catastrophic. Because I’ve certainly no desire to go back to the standard of living I had in the 80s nor do I want to go further back to the three day week*, rationing or outside toilets.
*im quite open to only working three days a week - it’s the only earning 60% part that is the issue!
Great photo leffeboy.
Those bars are beyond awesome 🙂
I also bought my first proper ATB from Williamsons around that time(Diamonback Apex),it was the go to place in the toon. Still can't believe I paid so much money for something with a U-brake.
Oh and for 'they’re holzhausen aren’t they' 🙂 🙂
Soon, hardly any young person will have the chance of owning a home. The only ones who will own their homes will be the ones who were given them by the previous generation. The generation who picked theirs up for beer money.
I think this is misleading. There were news headlines earlier this week about millennials not owning homes - but when you read the detail it said upto 1/3rd will rent for their entire life (I wonder what it is for other generations?). 2/3rds is not quite “hardly any”. Then as you rightly point out many will inherit or be gifted property or at least deposits from further up the family tree (and it may be grandparents rather than parents who really profited).
But I can look around at millenials in my organisation. It’s clear there are two types. Those who buy coffees at 2.60, have the latest phone, games platform, think nothing of spending 100 on trainers or shoes, and eat/drink at least 100 every weekend and then there are those who, like generations before them are less extravagent and either paying a mortgage or saving for a deposit. Really it was the same in previous generations too.
"But I can look around at millenials in my organisation. It’s clear there are two types. Those who buy coffees at 2.60, have the latest phone, games platform, think nothing of spending 100 on trainers or shoes, and eat/drink at least 100 every weekend and then there are those who, like generations before them are less extravagent and either paying a mortgage or saving for a deposit. Really it was the same in previous generations too."
I am a millennial - i own (well i own half the bank owns the other half) my own house... As you rightly mention its a case of priority's to a point - but i know plenty of people who are scraping by even on a minimal existence , once you pay rent - even on a small flat - eat (cooking at home) and maybe run a modest car theres not alot left in the pot to save up if you have had a shit run of luck on jobs etc - you can see why they would take the instant gratification of a shiny new phone or a flash car on a monthly Not gonna sugar coat it , i gave up a-lot of what my peers have to get my house - because i wanted security for my family after being moved around rentals for a few years.
I still sticks a craw in my throat did i make the right choice (seeing as i spend half my life working away at the moment and gave up my love of bike racing to make it happen ) I hope to reap the rewards later but its a fine line between later never coming and later being too late.....
How ever previous generations also did this - my colleagues dad(so 2 generations before me) went to south georgia for 2 years to get the money for their family house.
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Is that Zaphod Beeblebrox behind the signpost?
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Can you imagine a bike shop these days closing on a Wednesday?
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My LBS does this.
As does mine. And on Sundays too!
Anyway, how's the plumbing coming along?
Still can’t believe I paid so much money for something with a U-brake.
hehe - the pressfit BB of the 90s 🙂
Those who buy coffees at 2.60, have the latest phone, games platform, think nothing of spending 100 on trainers or shoes, and eat/drink at least 100 every weekend and then there are those who, like generations before them are less extravagent and either paying a mortgage or saving for a deposit.
I am definitely not the former. I also live in a cheap area, and I could probably afford to buy a home here (assuming I can continue working until retirement age). But even then it feels like a huge risk. I know a number of people in negative equity, despite having being paying a mortgage for the past decade... Those people would have been better off renting.
"I know a number of people in negative equity, despite having being paying a mortgage for the past decade… Those people would have been better off renting."
based on how mortgages are weighted i find that hard to believe on a more than the odd person here and there who did something odd. 10 years on a 25 year mortgage would mean to be in negative equity on a regular repayment mortgage making the minimum the house value is close to half what they paid - where in the uk is that happening ?
10 years on a 25 year mortgage would mean to be in negative equity on a regular repayment mortgage making the minimum the house value is close to half what they paid
Is that true? I thought the bulk of your payments at the start went on paying interest rather than repaying capital
Leffeboy
Assuming 200k mortgage with a 10% deposit
After 10 years paying the minimum payment of £797 you'll owe in close region of 110k.
Put 180k on the y axis put 25 years on the X axis. Put your ruler from 180 diagonally to the 25years mark. That's your payment curve. I'd post the picture my self but uploading and posting on here is a bollocks now.
That's a hell of a drop in value or extenuating circumstances to be in negative equity. Not impossible but surely an exception rather than loads of them + there are other plus points to owning your own gaff - security knowing the landlords not gonna kick you out , being able to decorate as you wish......of course the downsides are you are liable to pay for all repairs. Swings and roundabouts abouts.
your going to need a lot of kindling to get those holtzhausen to burn. they look a bit damp to me. thread seems to be going off op somewhat
Trailrat. You're talking complete rubbish.
Do you really believe it's a straight line... really?
God help us
After 10 years you’ll owe £132,511
FTFY
But even then it feels like a huge risk.
If you are buying a home to live in, and can afford the mortgage payments, what is the risk?
Never mind your bitching about property prices, lazy self-entitled millenials, greedy baby boomers etc etc...just look at how short those shorts are!!
After 10 years you’ll owe £132,511
True - but even then on a £200K house, that's still a 34% decline in value. There are some areas where that may be true, but not many.
no the generalist but its a close approximation rather than saying freehand a slightly outward curve between the two points.....
"After 10 years you’ll owe £132,511
FTFY"
You sure about that ? while its not exactly 110k , having checked my fag packet against martin lewis online calc - im pretty certain your out by a bigger factor than my off the top of my head fag packet math.
After 10 years on a 25yr repayment mortgage of 200k at 4% you'll owe 142,718.79.
Nice calculator here
But it's still pretty hard to be in negative equity unless you were on interest only.
one wheel good - I'm glad at least one of you isn't just frothing to correct me 😉 - you at least twigged i never wrote what %age interest i used (which was just the one i have FWIW which is 2.3%
How ever interest rates as you point out with your 4% have been pretty damn low for the last 10 years.
As the interest rate rises the curvature of the graph between the two points gets more extreme
just look at how short those shorts are!!
In retrospect we should also have worn worksite hard hats for the full VillagePeople. I'm quite liking wearing walking boots again in winter now I'm back on flats, might have to do those shorts next 🙂
After 10 years on a 25yr repayment mortgage of 200k at 4% you’ll owe 142,718.79.
Probably true, but he assumed a 10% deposit So only 180 on mortgage?
As trailrat says, depends on interest rate. CBA to read the whole thread to find details of exactly which era we're talking about here but I think it was many years ago so 4% seems a little low. I assumed 5 percent.
I still recall Black Wednesday, ERM and Lamont's lament, interest rates at c. 15% briefly...
.. my first MTB had a U-brake..