[Closed] A cowboy plumber breaks into your property and illegally connects a waste pipe.

Shoes, wee therein.

Bombers, own thereof.

And be in awe of the McMoonter, obviously!

offer to let them use the waste pipe seeing as you are not using it but demand they do adequate repairs to the  unused place in your absence /look after it as  recompense?

I suspect your chances of a prosecution are low

Owner: I hired a plumber

Who- Dont know got his number from a friend he called round and i told him what i wanted. I  paid cash and have never seen him again - he did what gosh that is shocking etc

IMHO its a real waste to leave a property unoccupied for 20 years

I'm generally in awe of your work McMoonter - but owning a property and leaving it empty for 20 years is a smidgen out of order surely?

[edit]Ninja'd by junkyard[/edit]

If the property downstairs from me had been empty less than half that time I'd consider it abandoned and fair game.

My folks bought the place in the early seventies, it earned its keep for the first twenty odd years. I stayed there for a spell in the eighties. We closed the door thinking we'd do something productive with it, then other things seemed to be competing for our attention.

I didn't owe us a penny and that is largely why it was neglected, we would regularly receive offers to buy it, but we never acted on them. In a way we've been quite lucky as the street has morphed from a hippie hangout to somewhere a bit more upmarket. I'm not married and have no children, so my intention is to restore it for my niece who has had a lot of uncertainty in her life. It will give her some security.

Break into their flat and take a dump on their floor.

Then undo the plumbers work.

Personally, I’d take the pipe off, seal up the end and wait for the ruckus when it backs up into their living space, and serve the buggers right. But I have a pretty low tolerance for that sort of underhand behaviour.

In a way we’ve been quite lucky

Yes in a way you have been lucky to inherit a flat at zero cost and then make money by completely  ignoring it as the area becomes gentrified . That is quite the understatement.

Disconnect it and use the results to build a famous McMoonter log pile?

Is this cast iron waste a service intended to be shared by you and the flat above or should it be exclusively your waste?

Is this connection actually protruding below your ceiling or is it contained within the void between your ceiling and their floor?

I'm just trying to understand if the objection is the breaking in and making good, or fitting a visible waste connection in your ceiling.

Do what you do with any other rogue foolish enough to irk the mcmoonter. Entomb him in a giant holzhousen.

If you don't know exactly who owns the flat above, despite him having a tenant, chances are they don't know who owns yours, which makes it awkward to seek approval for reasonable works (fitting a waste is reasonable, unless they've fitted it four foot below ceiling height).

Make yourself known, ask for explanation and making good ASAP.

If they've already had the opportunity to ask, then bombers/shoes/chimney/slats etc.

Owned by a Scottish farmer from the borders?

I'll be very surprised if they do anything but ignore you. I would also check the deeds for any quirks about allowing drainage and whether there any Scots law quirks here.

Good luck

Entomb him in a giant holzhousen

Ah, now we understand the holzhousens, it's the MC version of The Patio(tm). Who else has irked him recently

Is there a covenant of some sort to use that pipe at that point?

If not, ask the contractor to remove the waste pipe ASAP and repair the damage

I always thought that breaking and entering was a serious criminal offence, non?

Leaving a perfectly good home unused 20 years , I've gone off you mcmooter.

Is it me or is everyone missing the point that the **** broke in first and foremost. Regardless of what he did once in there he wants a slap for that.

Same as Countzero, I ll remove the pipe and block it.

Doesn't matter if property is empty, it is yours and they should not be allowed to enter.

From the perspective of the flat owner / trades person: How easy would it have been to track you down to ask for permission? Is it a case of no-one's visited the property for 20 years, it's still in your parents name / old address (who may have moved / changed number / unfortunately passed on etc)

Or did they have your details and just not bother?

Remove the pipe and block it...a rather foolish plan unless you fancy water damage when their bathroom floods and comes through your ceiling!

Give 14days unotice to the property above that.

they can by arrangement they can remove their unauthorised connections and make good the damage from the forced entry

or

you will report the break in, seek quotes to get the work done. Then undertake the works blocking off the services make good and recover the costs by taking action against then.

i assume your insured? Is so I’d discuss this with them before proceeding

Best bet is talk to the owner upstairs  1st!

This was the before picture. You can see the waste pipe coming from the shower tray through what they had removed of our ceiling, through what was a stud wall and into the previously unused access to the cast iron waste pipe  I didn't take a picture of the improved version

EDIT hopefully the pic will be viewable in the link

There is a communal stair record of all the owners so finding us shouldn't have been difficult.

Ive been doing work sporadically on the space on the space over the last few months. I'm relieved my generator wasn't stolen. I'll need to retrieve it today

They should be able to service their waste pipe from their property. Breaking in is totally unacceptable

Junkyard, it's not a turnkey gift. It's going to be an epic restoration. I've already taken out two floors, basically it's a shell now. Estimates so far from contractors have been over £100k to make it habitable. I'm optimistic I can do it for a lot less.

This place gets better all the time. Someone forces entry, does a botch job and Mcmoonter is the bad guy??

I’d  not block it up, as stated above, any flooding upstairs will only impact you worse than you already are.

Missile strike to the flat above...should be easy to get it authorized

Surely being STW the response should be to fit a wood burner and put the flue up through the ceiling without asking permission

This place gets better all the time. Someone forces entry, does a botch job and Mcmoonter is the bad guy??

To be fair, he was damned from the moment he referred to it as a "property".

To be fair, he was damned from the moment he referred to it as a “property”.

True. Burn him. 

Update.

I’ve spoken to the tenant and he has given me the letting agent’s number. The tenant said that there had been a problem with his shower and it was the plumber contracted by the agent who did the work/break in.

I had a peek under the pasteboard the plumber had fitted. There was no fire insulation between the floor to ceiling gap. I’m guessing that contravenes building regs

The agent’s office is closed now. I’ll be ringing them first thing on Monday

Apologies for using the word ‘property’, I’ll use hoose in future

I don't think I'd give them much option. They've instructed a plumber to do he's broken in.

Phone police on 101 and get an incident number.  That way you have a bit more leverage on the agent.

Police. In England the offence of burglary has been committed.

Entered a building as a trespasser, committed unlawful damage

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary_in_English_law

Not sure about Scottish Law tho..

I would have contacted the police

I would go for 101 and report. The plumber has essentially broken in, he'll do it again.

Then letter before action to the letting agent/landlord detailing what you want and or it's off to court

In Scots law the equivalent of burglary is housebreaking. That won't apply as it requires an intent to steal.

Then there is vandalism. A statutory crime where property belonging to someone else is damaged without lawful authority or reasonable excuse.

So it would come down to whether first the police and then the PF thought forcing entry was reasonable in the circumstances and if not whether a prosecution was in the public interest.

Ignore the ridiculousness of some people on the thread McMoonter.  It’s easy with 20/20 hindsight to critiscise someone else’s decisions.

Finding 100k to renovate a property is not easy - and using the property rental to fund it’s own renovation costs must be very hard if the property is not particularly rentable in its current state.

I agree it’s out of order and think you are taking a good approach.  If they wanted to address a leak or drainage they should have gone through their own floor.  As for damaging a window and not making good - shoddy indeed and they obviously did that because they thought they could get away with it.  Arses!

Thanks for the advice and quips folks. I've talked this through with my folks, both in their late 70's, and they agree that phoning 101, getting a crime reference number, then calling the letting agent is the way to go. The agent appointed the plumber, there is a paper trail. If I were the landlord, I'd be horrified that those acting on my behalf would act so irresponsibly with no regard for the law. If I had been the perpetrator, I'd expect nothing less.

I will suggest to the landlord that he can have access to remove the waste pipe and make good his own space which would be easier now than when I start my renovation in earnest.

I thought that if there was a leak which had the potential to do damage that access could be made into another persons house without their permission. There is a process for this but I thought that the police needed to be in attendance... Well otherwise you could just break in take what you wanted splash some water around the place and call it good...

Christ, the levels of jealousy on here by some people speaks volumes..

"I thought that if there was a leak which had the potential to do damage that access could be made into another persons house without their permission. There is a process for this but I thought that the police needed to be in attendance…"

Sounds about right. The way it works, or used to when I was doing it a good few years back in Glasgow was that if there was a burst pipe from say a top flat and the council or private landlord needed access was ....

1. Contact police who would confirm that all reasonable attempts to contact the owner had been made, create an incident number.

2. Thereafter the police would tell the council  to get a plumber and joiner to the address then  call them back. Once the plumber was there police would attend and standby while access was gained, leak fixed, and house secured with note left for householder quoting incident number.

In a case like this where it appears a leaky shower tray was the problem I'd suggest the police advice to the occupiers/owner above would be stop using the shower and contact the ownersw of the flat below to make mutually agreeable access arrangements.

Yes in a way you have been lucky to inherit a flat at zero cost and then make money by completely  ignoring it as the area becomes gentrified . That is quite the understatement.

“Excuse me, Sir, is that saucer of milk to go?”

Christ, the levels of jealousy on here by some people speaks volumes..

You got the right thread? All I see here is a manky, derelict old flat needing £100k worth of work done. It's a bit of a waste though when someone could have been getting use out of it all that time.

You got the right thread? All I see here is a manky, derelict old flat needing £100k worth of work done. It’s a bit of a waste though when someone could have been getting use out of it all that time.

Yeah, I have. And I stand by what I said..

i can’t see the issue with that, if they’re lucky enough to have that flat, it’s up to them what they do with it..

Yes, someone could’ve been getting the use, but they weren’t, and?

I can’t see the issue.

Does that logic apply to anything you have lying around....such as a book you have already paid for but are not currently using...

I'm sure some land lords would be happy to rent out a hovel..... I'm sure folks would actually pay to rent it even sans floors in that London.

But Mcmoonters a busy guy these things take time.

Or do you fire sale all your assets rather than repair when they get worn out ?

ignore the ridiculousness of some people on the thread McMoonter.

It won’t be ignored. There will just be more holzhousen.