[Closed] 4 x 4 f*+ckwits

Haha. I love the negativity directed at 4x4 drivers. I drive a defender. And dont give a toss what other people have to say about it. I certainly don't drive round for 51 weeks of the year in a state of enhanced self consciousness!
People think they're unnecessary - which may be the case. But, half the bikes on here I'd wager are unnecessary. You can do 99% of riding in this country on a rigid mountain bike?! Who cares what you ride/drive?!

[i]A 4x4 with a owners 4x4 mentality tends to have winter tyres in winter.[/i]

The problem being in my experience, those with said mentality among 4x4 owners are as rare as rocking horse sh*t, certainly in rural areas. A significant amount of them have probably posted here already.

In rural areas like mid Wales the opposite is true though. I've only found one "typical" 4x4 driver (a school run mum who nearly ran me over on a roundabout despite me having priority.

Another issue is that several 4x4s (I'm thinking more the Chelsea tractor rather than Land rovers and Defenders) can't fit non-road tyres because the wheel arches are too small, but if you go for a smaller wheel the brake caliper gets in the way. Top Gear had a porsche thingy on a year or two ago with this problem.

Someone also mentioned snow chains like the Austrians have. Whilst I think this would be great there are two problems with this:
1. They cost an arm and a leg; problems like now happen once in a blue moon
2. If you aren't on the snow, they eat your tyres (you might as well set fire to £400, probably be less hassle)

Note: I don't hate 4x4s, I secretly want a defender. It's the idiot behind the wheel I always have a problem with, regardless of what they drive. It just seems to me that some of the worst offenders drive Chelsea tractors or land rovers in an urban area, with the only dirt they ever see being road dust.

Hora - check this vid out

That Porsche thing was born wrong. Answers on a postcard what the designers wanted/were thinking.

Ranger Rovers- yes. Theres STILL one sat on Deansgate in central Manchester. Im guessing the owner is slumped in the car surrounded by a sea of cocaine.

hora - yeah, not always driving on fresh snow, but when I had to I don't recall there ever being any drama.

We used to go to night school once a week in the largest nearby town about a 25min drive away. Several times it would be snowing heavily and by the time we came to drive back there were at least a couple of inches of snow on the roads. We never had any issue getting back, even though the road had quite a few significant hills on it.

The best pub in the town was also up a fairly long hill. This was generally clear lower down near the residential end of the street, but towards the pub was often snowy. On several occasions we'd drive the car up there and leave it until the morning (and stagger home) with no bother.

If it was snow covered everywhere, then snow chains/spiked tyres would probably have been more effective, but generally the main roads stayed clear. It was usually in the evenings before the snow plough went through that the main road would be covered in snow.

My girlfriend drives an old Golf, on half worn ordinary tyres, but they are all at least fairly new, so they're still pliable, and have normal tread patterns. Only thing you cannot do is a hill start on an icey slope. So you avoid doing it.

The most off roading I've ever done was in a 406 HDI, round fields and farm roads. Big wide low profile Goodyear F1s, worst possible tyre for off road. Never got stuck or bottomed it out because I looked where I was going and was careful not to stop where it would be difficult to set off again.

Last vehicle I got stuck was a John Deere 2130 when I was 12 or so.

I just don't see what all the fuss is about myself. I've driven all sorts of cars, from jacked up 4x4s with full lockers to little FWD hatches. All have their niche areas that they work best, decent 4x4s with the "proper" kit work brilliantly in the snow and ice, but I've yet to find anything I couldn't cope with perfectly well in my 306 estate so far this year, I really don't know what everyone is blathering on about as if the world is coming to an icy end. I've been up tiny hilly backroads in Luss with an indicated -15 on the dash and compacted snow/ice on the roads, I've beeen driving to work daily, I've driven through snow and ice in all kinds of cars and the only ones I ever even had the slightest "problem" dealing with in snow and ice was an automatic 3.5 litre RWD BMW, and even then it was only because I was a little over-enthusiastic. Drive to suit the conditions and you'll be fine. Sure, up the hilly backroads in stupidly low temps it wuold have been nice to have the extra traction of a 4x4 with M&S tyres, but ultimately it wasn't exactly impossible to drive. I do genuinely worry about the country when so many people can't cope with a little bad weather.

the only ones I ever even had the slightest "problem" dealing with in snow and ice was an automatic 3.5 litre RWD BMW

I've got what folk like Hora would deem a "poser's" 4x4 (Audi Allroad) yet it's gotten me everywhere I've needed to go this week.

2WD owners driving too cautiously (i.e. on cleared roads as though there is still snow/ice on them) is just as frustrating and common place as 4WD owners driving like loons.

2WD owners driving too cautiously (i.e. on cleared roads as though there is still snow/ice on them) is just as frustrating and common place as 4WD owners driving like loons.

And you know for sure there's no black ice around the corner on those recently cleared roads? Or a patch in a shady spot under a tree? It's still pretty chilly out there!

2WD owners driving too cautiously (i.e. on cleared roads as though there is still snow/ice on them) is just as frustrating and common place as 4WD owners driving like loons.

Can we get away from the 2wd/4wd arguments, it makes no sense, it's just people who have no ability to judge their cars ability or the road surface.

Hmmm, I have been caught somewhat. I concede.

A couple of years ago I drove to Germany for NY's at friends. It was snowy/sub-zero but my Aygo coped. I put that down to me being sensible/cautious and relaxed though rather than 2wd/car being just as capable. 🙄

dialledmike- surely you dont have to drive all the way into central London for your supplies?:

http://www.sunglasshut.co.uk/StoreLocator/StoreLocator.aspx?CountryID=1&RegionID=21

2WD owners driving too cautiously (i.e. on cleared roads as though there is still snow/ice on them) is just as frustrating and common place as 4WD owners driving like loons.

llamafarmer saved me writing an answer

And you know for sure there's no black ice around the corner on those recently cleared roads? Or a patch in a shady spot under a tree? It's still pretty chilly out there!

cautious but not middle of road 4wd here - oh how i have laughed in past when let some fwit past that has been tailgating to see them spin off or hit a car at next junction

I love my 4x4

I've left my Car Buried since Wednesday; Made it into work today totally fine using bike/train option, Why bother driving when 50% of those on the road are acting like Dicks?

Walked to the supermarket yesterday and had to help shift a goon in a Mondeo Who had managed to get cross rutted on a largely clear road, none of his passengers got out to help, and he needed telling 5 times to use 2nd and low Revs, and he'll be one of 1000's that go out with out a clue or a shovel...

Last Feb we had half as much snow and it took me 2.5Hrs to get 20 Miles to work by car, same frustraitions as everyone else has listed, just thought it's not worth it this time, I know I can drive in the snow I also know a fair few Can't but do still try.
I'd rather have a working car once it's all thawed out, than half of it stuck to the bumper of someone's Focus and an Insurance claim to make...

I lived In Minnesota for a year as a student working in agriculture, we lived in -30 for several months, had to clear 3 foot of snow daily just so we could get the pigs out in the lots fed, had to put additive in petrol so it did not freeze, tractors had to be pluged in at night to sump heaters, run nipco heaters blowing on them to keep the oil warm, then let the tractors warm up for an hour before the oil was warm enough to use them, used snowmobile for work feeding the pigs, dressed in 2 sets of insulated overalls to stay warm, you had 20 mins to move the stem cleaner from one building to another or it would freeze, 20 mins to fill the slurry tanker get it to the field and empty it, or it was a 9 ton ice cube for god knows how long, young pigs (5 weeks) if the heaters went out you had an hour tops to get them going or they would Die
So we are concerned about the little amount of snow we have got, Christ sake Just take it slow, dress up for the waether and get on with it. and all this 4x4 crap, we had 2 4x4 pickups but we rather us the Honda Estate car in the snow and ice as it was far more predictable as to what it would do, Plus the last thing you needed was to be stuck in a drift with snow rammed between the engine and fan and the not be able to run,with the Honda you were not tempted to run the drifts, and perish in the cold, one couple got stuck out in a whiteout one night, they ran the truck till it ran out of fuel, then started burning parts of the car to get some heat, they were found the next morning perished, they were 100 yrds from the local radio station, but the whiteout was so bad they or the people at the radio station could not see/here them.
So come on, lets just deal with the weather,

I love the 4x4 haters, here are a few good reasons why i drive a navara

1. i can go biking get the bike dirty as **** and chuck it straight in the back without worrying about getting car dirty

2. in the summer i go camping alot and get to leave most of gear in car all summer to just get in and go, not constantly packing and unpacking.

3. when the weather is shite like now I get to take the back lanes home and leave the main routes clear for all the 2wheel drivers(and still beat them there)

4 If your really knew what you were talking about you would realise my diesel navara is far more fuel efficient than most 2ltr rep mobiles so it actually does some good too

All i'm hearing from the 4x4 drivers is how [i]they've[/i] justified them to themselves. I'm still waiting for someone to explain why they [i]need[/i] them....

Why do you "need" suspension on your bike mark_b or "need" a mobile phone? We want a 4x4 because we like them. We've got a mobile phone because theyre handy. Suspension on the bike makes it a comfier ride. We dont have to "need" them?!

To add my theory - some people (sorry but usually women) buy big 4x4s because they are terrible drivers and it helps to pad this out a bit. Put them in conditions where being able to drive is helpful and... the rubbish driving becomes much more obvious thus giving all owners of said vehicles a bad reputation.

wunundred 😀

Nothing like a bit of good old fashioned sexism. The above sounds like bollocks to me, but there is some psychology at play I'm sure. The high seating position and several tonnes of armour do give the ladies a feeling of security. And ladies do like that.*

*My knowledge of women is almost entirely based on R4 Woman's hour.

A friend owns an ancient Fiat Panda 4x4 worth all of about £2.50. Any reason why she would fall into the category of f*+ckwit or might that force you to re-evaluate your sweeping generalisation and realise that actually your problem is with bad drivers who have bigger cars or more money than you?

Some c0ckend coming towards me this morning in his Discovery (I drive a low sporty car) - snow on both sides of the road so effectively a single carriageway. I *assumed* that as he was driving a vehicle vastly superior in these conditions, that he would drive onto the snow so I could get by. But no - he just came at me so I though u**** it and sat there and waited for him to creep by in the tiny gap that was left.

No idea why it was a problem to him - I know I would have risked grounding and getting my car stuck and if he had an ounce of common sense he would have thought about that too.

Llamafarmer, if you'd driven the road I was referring to (A24 Dorking to Horsham), you would know what I mean and how clear it is. But thanks for the hypothetical/generic reply.

mark_b......would you care to enlighten us as to your make/model of motor car (if indeed you do own one)? We can then debate if you "need" it or could make do with something else.

mastiles_fanylion, you drive a white posh hairdresser car (joke). He probably couldnt see you as you were 'camouflaged'. 😆

Talking of sunglasses. Night before last in Huddersfield at twilight (5.00ish) I saw an Asian driver wearing black retro Rayban-SUNGLASSES. 😯

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why they need them....

Or you could just get one car that does all of the above. They annoy vegetarians too. Which is a bonus.

jd-boy - agreed.

A mate of mine was just saying that in his time in canada they only really started moaning when the snow reached half the height of the house.

Or you could just get one car that does all of the above. They annoy vegetarians too. Which is a bonus.

Or do what some of us do, get a normal car for general duties and a 4x4 for towing/offroading/snow etc, but not everyone has the luxury of space and the extra ~£400 a year in tax/insurance/MOT.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why they need them....

Very good question. I have alot of family (including my Mum who is getting older) in various parts of Huddersfield in the sticks. Over two winters its proved invaluable for getting around and to see various family. In total thats only circa 6 weeks however my car has also proved itself to be surefooted with alot of feedback in all situations. I see it as a variation on the mk2.5 MX5 interms of how it communicates and how it lets you know on grip and when it does let go its never a drama. In the dry going into a roundabout it pulls/sticks like glue and if you dont hook your arm under the armrest you can end up on the passenger seat 🙂

I've no idea what other 4x4's are like- I've only had this one and mine isnt a true offroader due to clearance but it does have a two-ratio box.

You could argue that we dont need powerful fast cars or high BHP/torque diesels either to a degree. Mines proved itself to be utterly ace and a Tonka toy 😀 I've been thinking what I want next and I still can't decide (and this is coming from the serial car owner)

[img] [/img]

you drive a white posh hairdresser car

You had a white one before?!!! Or was it you were contemplating a white un originally?

Why do you "need" suspension on your bike mark_b or "need" a mobile phone? We want a 4x4 because we like them. We've got a mobile phone because theyre handy. Suspension on the bike makes it a comfier ride

True, but i don't feel the compulsion to try and justify having a suspended bike in the same way 4x4 drivers keep trotting out their excuses for having one.

Plus maybe my suspended bike actually gets ridden off road a lot more than their 4x4 gets to see dirt.

Apart from when i'm riding my rigid singlespeed of course 😀

Some will know how much I despise athe incompetent large percentage of 4x4 drivers, but there's one other category that makes them seem like good drivers. I am talking about a significant percentage of truck drivers. They have a misplaced belief that they have more of a right to be on our roads that anyone else and often bully and intimidate other road users. My experience is that they cause the majority of motorway accidents with their erratic and careless overtaking etc. Good truckers must be so frustrated at the idiots letting the side down. I by no means denigrate all truck drivers as some are highly professional. We need some sort of visible badging system for these guys to encourage the rest to aspire to their standards.

Yesterday, on a 110 mile stint, i was stuck behind one of these vehicles on a winding A road. It was 0c, but the salting on the road meant that the truck was throwing up lots of mucky spray imparing my visibility, meaning i had to constantly clear my windscreen. I could have hung back (which I often do when a vehicle is making reasonable and consistent progress), but the truck kept significantly altering it's speed for no apparent reason. None of this was particularly out of the ordinary, but what riled me was that he sped up considerably on all the sections where i had a chance of overtaking. Well I hear you say this is what any driver would do given that it is safe to increase your speed on a staight section, however 70mph in a big truck in freezing temperatures on such a road is just riddiculous and illegal! This was only when there weren't oncoming vehicles too.

Eventually i got past him and then on came his high beam because i had briefly sounded my horn as I'd passed him (in case he hadn't seen me). He then slowed back down on the straight section proving that he had been playing games with me and had put my safety at risk. Then, as a passing car approached he dipped his headlamps, but as it passed he put them back on! Utter idiot!

When we stopped at a set of lights in the next town, he pulled up sharp on my bumper. As we moved off, tailgated me.

ERRATIC STUPID ****ERS WITH SHORT FUSES SHOULD NOT BE PUT IN CONTROL OF SUCH LARGE HEAVY VEHICLES - PERIOD!

It's red actually

Does that mean it's faster? 😆

Fop - Premier Member

mark_b......would you care to enlighten us as to your make/model of motor car (if indeed you do own one)? We can then debate if you "need" it or could make do with something else

Getting defensive - i like it. I drive an old estate. Do i need it - no. Do i appreciate the quality of life it gives me - yes. Does it give me an overwhelming sense of superiority - i don't need a car to do that for me 🙂

What exactly am I getting defensive about...my rear wheel drive 4-door, 5 year old saloon??? Don't think so.

I think you've just argued against yourself there mark_b...as you yourself say, most cars are not "needed", they just give people a "quality of life" which THEY appreciate. They don't need you to vindicate it. A brisk brush with your hand should remove that chip on your shoulder. I don't feel inferior to others just because they're sat a few feet higher than me when driving on the roads but hey, each to their own.

Fop - Agreed.
But I also like my 4x4 as it seems to boil peoples p*iss like nothing else!
I also have a 'normal' car - and I love that too.
mark_b - My 4x4 gets used off road as well!

When we stopped at a set of lights in the next town, he pulled up sharp on my bumper

presumably the truck was still just behind because it was being driven so fast and erratically no one else managed to overtake it - proof indeed about how poor his driving was

Anyone see the press ad for the BMW X5 yesterday? (it was in the times) and showed a X5 driving through snow (motion of speed) and the strap line that it had alot of electronic gizmos that would keep you going no matter what.

Spongebob - find a friendly lorry driver & spend a day in their cab to enlighten yourself as to other drivers inconsiderate habits

You had a white one before?!!! Or was it you were contemplating a white un originally?

Does that mean it's faster?

Spongebob - find a friendly lorry driver & spend a day in their cab to enlighten yourself as to other drivers inconsiderate habits

I tend to agree- we all see the odd 'TORA TORA TORA' driver coming down off the sliproad and slicing onto the carriageway past the trucks in the slow lane etc. The Truckdrivers however must experience this multiple times a day and have to watch their mirrors and cover their brakes just incase I bet.

however 70mph in a big truck in freezing temperatures on such a road is just riddiculous and illegal!

And completely impossible I'd have thought, aren't they meant to be limited to 60 physically?

Its -10c in Texas USA at the momment.

llamafarmer - Member

KT1973 - Member

the extra security of having 2 ton of steel around you

Not so comforting for the mum on the school run in her Vauxhall Corsa though is it? It's like a pointless arms race - the only way you can be safe in a crash with a 4x4 is to have one yourself.

Posted 11 hours ago # Report-Post

That's true and I've considered this often but you have to look after your own first and I want to give them the best chance possible. Do you remember the story about that pissed up footballer who crashed his Range Rover into a family car and killed their 2 sons. Absolutely tragic and I don't think I could deal with that. There are some situations that will be completely outwith your control but you do what you can. I was never a fan of the things before and it took me a while to convince the mrs but she loves it now and it gives me some peace of mind, whether that added protection be perceived or real.

I've recruited another ****wit to the cause. He never saw the point of a 4x4. An hour cross country in mine today and he's buying one at the weekend. He couldn't believe what it was capable of.

[i]I used to feel the same about 4x4's until I had kids myself, so it's mainly for the wife to use[/i]

What happens though when your wife gets distracted by the kids and your huge 4x4 goes crashing through the back of some other smaller car killing or maiming their kids? Yes, yours are fine, but at the cost of ruining another family's lives.

What happens though when your wife gets distracted by the kids and your huge 4x4 goes crashing through the back of some other smaller car killing or maiming their kids? Yes, yours are fine, but at the cost of ruining another family's lives.

[i]The people who don't care enough about their kids to use a 4x4 lose.[/i]

Please, please tell me that was a joke.

[i]but you have to look after your own first [/i]

Presumably you also think we should stop sending money to Africa? Or you'd be happy for a school 100 miles away to close if it meant more money for the one your kids go to?

I feel very sorry for your kids if they are being brought up with such totally selfish attitudes being presented to them as normal.

[i]Very good question. I have alot of family (including my Mum who is getting older) in various parts of Huddersfield in the sticks. Over two winters its proved invaluable for getting around and to see various family.[/i]

I've never been to Huddersfield, so maybe you could enlighten me. Is it some tiny little hamlet cut-off from main roads? Does it suffer from endless weeks of snow and ice keeping folk trapped in their houses? Are the roads (sorry, tracks I presume) in such a poor state of repair that normal cars are unusable?

If a 4x4 is invaluable in Huddersfield, are there any 2wd Huddersfieldians on here who have had big problems getting around the last couple of years?

Bloke in the Ranger Rover that ploughed in the back of the car killing 2 – was drunk, had taken drug, was on the phone and reputably committing a sexual act whilst driving at over 100mph – using that incident as an exemplar of how safe 4x4 are speaks volumes about the sort of people who drive such vehicles
As I recall they tend to do very badly in the ENCAP rating for both passenger and pedestrian safety
Farms & grouse moors are the best place for them

Far too many tree hugger types on this forum these days.....

KT1973 - Member

the extra security of having 2 ton of steel around you

Not so comforting for the mum on the school run in her Vauxhall Corsa though is it? It's like a pointless arms race - the only way you can be safe in a crash with a 4x4 is to have one yourself.

3L engine block at head height is nothing less than dangerously antisocial.

FWIW, if you are involved in a head on collision in a big 4x4, with a smaller car, the engine of the smaller car is quite commonly forced under the big cars engine, lifting it into the driver compartment, and forcing the clutch pedal into the drivers legs/crotch.

no mercy for the small car though, theyre still just as dead.

What happens though when your wife gets distracted by the kids and your huge 4x4 goes crashing through the back of some other smaller car killing or maiming their kids? Yes, yours are fine, but at the cost of ruining another family's lives

but you have to look after your own first

Presumably you also think we should stop sending money to Africa? Or you'd be happy for a school 100 miles away to close if it meant more money for the one your kids go to?

Not the best analogy there either. If it was between giving food to my kids OR giving it to some africans I'd give it to mine. Africa needs stable uncorrupted government, education, better infrastructure and rubber jonnies but that is another can of worms altogether.....and there's no need to feel sorry for my kids. They are being brought up very well with good moral values thankyou very much.

breakneckspeed - Member
Bloke in the Ranger Rover that ploughed in the back of the car killing 2 – was drunk, had taken drug, was on the phone and reputably committing a sexual act whilst driving at over 100mph – using that incident as an exemplar of how safe 4x4 are speaks volumes about the sort of people who drive such vehicles
As I recall they tend to do very badly in the ENCAP rating for both passenger and pedestrian safety
Farms & grouse moors are the best place for them

You're taking what I said out of context here. I'm not using this as an advert for 4x4 safety. I was completely shocked when I heard this. That family have been devastated. It's one of the things that made me think "what if it happened to me?" so under the circumstances I decided it would be [i]safer[/i] to have this type of car to protect my family. We don't drive around drunk in it with reckless abandon safe in the knowledge that it's indestructable and we could never be hurt. It's not a battering ram, it's just a car.

Exactly my point – it just a car – it is no safer then any other and in certain situations can be more dangerous to both the occupants and those outside of it.
I have no axe to grind with people who genuinely and regularly use four wheel drive eg farmers

[i]That's extremely unlikely. They're strapped in and can't get out and if this happened in any other car the damage could be just as bad. Daft statement really.
[/i]

Not that unlikely. I've seen umpteen examples of women on the school run turning round to shout at kids in the backseat (in all types of car to be fair). There's got to be a good chance that a small percentage of them will at some point run into the back of another car, and in that case the damage is far more likely to be greater in a 4x4 for the simple reason they are so much heavier. So not a daft statement at all I'd suggest. No-one is suggesting the safety of your family shouldn't be a priority, the problem is many 4x4 drivers are quite willing to risk other families being destroyed to protect their own.

[i]I've recruited another **** to the cause. He never saw the point of a 4x4. An hour cross country in mine today and he's buying one at the weekend. He couldn't believe what it was capable of. [/i]

So when do you actually need, and I do mean "need" to go off-road? As far as I understand all that hour you spent off-road will have achieved is to destroy some countryside. And yes, I do realise you can accuse mountain bikers, and indeed walkers, of doing the same, but not to anywhere even close to the same level.

To be fair I'm from near Huddersfield and have driven a 2WD car around that area during a snowy period a few years ago and yes it was complete arse so I can see why a person would go for a 4x4 over there (small roads and lumpy terrain). Sure a 2WD is ok but I can see a 4x4 being much easier.

I went out to buy a new shape Mondeo estate as my next car, it's huge on the outside but inside the front seats felt really cramped and although the boot was big it didn't seem that wide and was pretty low so stooping to put bikes in and out I figured could give a few back problems.

We then had a look at an X-trail and the space inside was amazing considering it's not that big'a car. Front was nice, spacious and really comfy.

I also go off road a fair bit (I live in the country). It's a great car (sorry).

I think some of the posters have confirmed the OP's point

Imagine driving round in this 4x4.....

[IMG] [/IMG]

My point about Huddersfield (and okay, I was being cheeky) was to do with the statement [i]"Over two winters its proved invaluable for getting around and to see various family"[/i].

If we assume winter to be 3 months, let's say 90 days, that's 180 days in two years. On how many of those days has it been necessary for the average person in Huddersfield to have a 4x4 (the poster used the word "invaluable") to get about to visit family?

I've looked inside a few 4x4s and to be honest I don't see that they are really any more spacious than a decent sized family estate. And in a lot of them the luggage carrying capacity is pretty poor. I have a Mazda 6 saloon that can take two full sized mountain bikes inside with the wheels still on and also a load of kit bags.

Perhaps a balanced viewpoint from me (unusually?).

I had to have an Isuzu Trooper (commercial) with M+S tyres for my work in pretty nasty conditions. I did almost 100k in it and in retrospect had a love hate relationship with it.

The good (as others have mentioned) was that it's great to get going in poor conditions - except in reverse when some clever freehub thing disengaged the 4wd. And the higher viewpoint. And the loadspace. And towing trailers.

The bad is that it took longer to stop in all conditions (heavier, higher centre of gravity) than a normal car. The high c.o.g. also meant that it cornered worse than a normal car. And the insurance. And the fuel bill. And the depreciation. And the tyre wear. And servicing.

On balance I found that I felt it was more dangerous to occupants (me) than a car due to the increased risk of accident in 'normal' conditions. I think I drove accordingly. Some 4x4 drivers are undoubtably idiots. As are some 2wd drivers, but their cars arent so heavy / tall so other road users dont get so nervous.

Unless I need to do serious off roading again I'd not get another 4x4. M+S (or proper winter) tyres rock though.

That's why God invented tarmac so that 4x4's wouldn't be needed 99.9% of the time!

That's why God invented tarmac so that 4x4's wouldn't be needed 99.9% of the time!

Imagine driving round in this 4x4.....

i need that!

Imagine driving round in this 4x4.....

i need that!

Looks better in
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You don't need a cock 99% of the time. You'd miss it though.

And its been argued that only cocks have 4x4's therefore if you have a cock you must need a 4x4 🙂 I have both 😀

couldashouldawoulda............probably the most balanced thing I've read on this whole thread so far.

4x4s ace everyone should have one. 🙂
Those who moan about them probabley shite drivers anyway, or were bullied at school by bigger kids and are still having flash backs. 😕
Probably the same peeps that get in the way on single tracks at trail centres.

I once ran over a little fluffy bunny in my Landrover, will I still goto heaven?

Can somebody just explain to me exactly why 4x4s are so invaluable for getting around in when conditions are like this? I've not got stuck in my 2WD, have got up and down steepish hills which other people seem to think are impassable, and have sat behind 4x4s going slower than I'd be happy with a couple of times. What's more I regularly park in fields and drive along forest roads to get to events (far more off-roading than the average 4x4), and the only time I've ever got stuck even the 4x4s needed a tractor to pull them out.

The thing is it's quite clear to me that at least round here you don't need a 4x4 even during extreme weather (yes we have had snow, and yes we have lots of untreated back lanes I'm using and plenty of hills), so when do you need one exactly?

The thing is it's quite clear to me that at least round here you don't need a 4x4 even during extreme weather (yes we have had snow, and yes we have lots of untreated back lanes I'm using and plenty of hills), so when do you need one exactly?

spanishbarry - Member

I love my 4x4

Yup, i love yours too.

"mrmichaelwright - Member
i've had the opposite, driving over the snake pass before christmas i was constantly held up by timid drivers in 4x4s driving too slowly.

in a 2wd car they need to understand that momentum is my friend and when they stop on an uphill corner or mince downhill i'm going to get stuck or smash into the back of them"

So why not keep yer distance and learn to control a car downhill without even going near the brakes? you should be able to take a car down from 70mph-5mph or thereabouts without braking in the snow.

go out and have a play around with throttle blipping until you get it so smooth folk hardly know yer changing gear.

I reckon my Lancruiser (Prado over here) is pretty essential. The bloody great bull bar on the front is pretty useful for deflecting the wildlife when i'm out bush for work, and by wildlife read Emu's, FO big Kangaroos and cattle... It's also useful to have a 2000km fuel tank when is 2 hours+ between towns and there is no guarantee that the servo will be open when you get there.

Also handy for trips onto the beach and general hooning around on dirt roads in the hills :)... not much snow here mind you!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7245850@N06/3438012488/in/set-72157616703479258?edited=1

flickr doesn`t want to play!

...although the boot was big it didn't seem that wide and was pretty low so stooping to put bikes in and out I figured could give a few back problems.

Huddersfield? There are a few 2nd gear climbs.. but Sod the snow etc- the car just feels 'better' with four wheels powered. If I couldnt have 4 wheel drive I'd have rear wheel drive if I had to chose.

In general I wish folk would get off your silly 'we hate 4x4s' agenda.

2wd cars are fine- the same car with 4wd would be even better.

Another way to help traction would be to pull away in 2nd gear rather than 1st.
Also put a couple of bags of sand in the boot to give better traction on the rear wheels plus help the rear from sliding out.
May also help if you turn off the traction mode in BMW cars as
this seems to have the complete opposite effect.