Forum menu
Re the Scots.
No, they shouldn't. At least under the current terms.
If we can all vote then just maybe. They might just get what they want.
Unless of course its agreed that any time any one is unsuccessful in a vote we keep voting until it changes. At which point the other side wants their say and we mess about again.
I assume that all those who wanted to stay also bemoan the fall of the Soviet Union. Same idea isn't it
matt- for such a sweeping statement like that shows also what is wrong with our country.
What I am frustrated about is that it now seems the debate about the pros and cons of the EU has started now, and not during the referendum. It has only been since yesterday, that many have realised what some of the facts are, and what some of the consequences are.
I teach secondary students, and we had a more informed debate in school, than most of the country did.
ps- they still stick their bottom lip out in secondary school when you say use biro to write with and not pencil 😉
In the past few weeks more I have, more than ever, come to realise that I am very fortunate.
I grew up in a non-affluent working/lower middle class ( 2 generations from poverty and 1 from poor working class) respectable, loving family of tolerant, but hard-working and charitable people. We had books in the house and was encouraged to be inquisitive.
I had a state education that was quite good. I went to an old university, met interesting people and even encountered a certain pre-politics Boris Johnson at a debate.
I have a circle of friends of similar background and Suburban Middle-england income/lifestyle.
My colleagues are similarly educated.
I am used to reasoned discussion and debate at work and outside.
I find it really hard to reconcile the sort of emotional, lightweight, flakey argument and "justification" given by the (few) people that I have encountered voting to leave the EU.
The apparently self-spiting and self-destructive madness of many people in deprived areas of the UK baffles me as it is so far removed from my own normal state of rationality.
The result of the referendum angers and saddens me.
You have to wonder if people real don't like the situation the democratic system has produced why not go to Europe, problem solved see how they welcome you.
[quote=flanagaj ]We live in a friggin democracy. A 2nd referendum would make a mockery of that.
Hang on. You're saying that a second referendum on the EU would make a mockery of democracy?
Presumably we should have a 3rd one to fix that then?
Anna Soubry on Ch4 News saying that BoJo had no interest or expectation in Vote Leave winning. As a fellow Tory she was absolutely livid with him for the damage he had done in pursuit of personal advancement
Part of me wants this to go and reveal how rotten all of them are.
Same here. Those of us with houses, savings, decent jobs and most importantly the experience, qualifications and a modicum of intelligence to adapt to whatever happens next will mostly be ok. We'll be negatively affected, but we'll be ok. Not the people at the bottom though who have idiotically registered their 'protest' in the stupidest way possible. If they were that bothered why did they vote for a tory govt little over a year ago? The trouble is that now those in the middle are going to have very little sympathy for the people who will now inevitably suffer most from this. What a lovely rosy future to look forward to. If we think this country is divided now, just give it a few years.
As a fellow Tory she was absolutely livid with him for the damage he had done in pursuit of personal advancement
It's called a Pyrrhic victory.
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat
Maybe an immediate re-vote would be a mockery but, considering we have had to make an informed decision without the support of an actual plan in the case of a leave vote, what I would like to see is the government working their arse off over the summer and coming back with an "are you sure" vote which could be far better informed once we have a vague indication of the deal we might actually achieve.
Those of us with houses, savings, decent jobs and most importantly the experience, qualifications and a modicum of intelligence to adapt to whatever happens next will mostly be ok.
Still at least, on the plus side, I won't have to worry about ever hitting the maximum lifetime pension allowance 😉
Those of us with houses, savings, decent jobs and most importantly the experience, qualifications and a modicum of intelligence to adapt to whatever happens next will mostly be ok.
I imagine a fair few people in that position will also be directly responsible for the employment of some of those in other position. I wonder how many will be going into work next week with thoughts of revenge on their minds.
Well, 1.7 million sign a petition to have another referendum so they get the result that they want, then when the result goes their way they'll be another petition by the other side to get the result that they want.
Rinse and repeat how many times, that isn't democracy.
We all had a vote, some voted, some didn't.
I imagine a fair few people in that position will also be directly responsible for the employment of some of those in other position. I wonder how many will be going into work next week with thoughts of revenge on their minds.
Nope. Being involved in a previous redundancy process is the hardest thing I've had to do at work. One reason I was for Remain
[url= http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/the-brexit-vote-is-complete-folly-but-there-is-still-time-to-reverse-it/article30608142/ ]A possible way out?[/url]
This comes with huge problems, but pragmatic common sense should override democratic principle, especially as now we know that the out vote was almost certainly a result of blatant lies and promises from the vote leave campaign. Cameron said he'd invoke article 50 immediately. He hasn't done that, so that would indicate that some thinking is being done.
Who knows, <fantasy land>this could be a huge blessing in disguise, the population could change it's mind in the face of horrific consequences, and the people at the bottom who voted out as a protest could be bought off with radical reforms and investment to address the issues around low wages, social decay, social mobility, public services and housing</fantasy land>
+1 rkk01.
It truly sucks.
I am hoping it won't come to that in the business I'm in but if it does I hope those that voted leave have the decency to volunteer for redundancy.
I hope those that voted leave have the decency to volunteer for redundancy.
There's a guy at my work who said the main reason he was voting out was to make redundancy more likely as he's got 20 years built up.
Signed, 2.2m signed so far.
Let's end this pathetic Out nonsense.
A referendum is not legally binding. I'd be perfectly happy for Parliament to hold a vote and overrule the majority Leavers, on the grounds that they're too stupid to be given a say.
An example of what we will lose: my sister did a 1yr EU-funded apprenticeship in a deprived corner of France. She stayed on at that company for two more years, becoming fluent in French in the process. Then came back to the UK where she now uses the skills she learned. Winners: French company gets paid-for employee, British company gets skilled employee, sister gets skills and language, EU gets to feel all fuzzy about looking out for its citizens and deprived regions.
Another thing - one for all those saying that the losing "side" should suck it up and move on...
At what point, do you think, should a "good loser" be called a "quitter"...
and a "poor loser" be admired for the dogged pursuit of their cause?
There's a lot of angry people looking to minimise the implications of this National self harm
and the people at the bottom who voted out as a protest could be bought off with radical reforms and investment to address the issues around low wages, social decay, social mobility, public services and housing</fantasy land>
And who would pay for this socialist utopia, the EU who we've just told to shove it?...or this country with massive personal and governmental debt?....spending money is easy when it's not yours eh?....just ask Greece.
Welcome to the modern UK.
Expertise is to be ignored.
Facts and truth are negotiable.
Debating is just a matter of shouting, "Rubbish!"
Ignorance is a virtue.
Serious matters are treated with as much consideration as Britain's Got Talent.
The ultimate in dumbing down.
Terrible
There's a lot of angry people looking to minimise the implications of this National self harm
Yep, personally I see avoiding a massive recession and job losses as infinitely more preferable to anything the Brexiteers have offered us...
one for all those saying that the losing "side" should suck it up and move on...
Yup, I've been told that by one of my out-voting 'friends'. They're so bloody stupid they think it's like losing a football match.
Let's end this pathetic Out nonsense.
Lol, yes let's force through something to reverse what was a perfectly democratic process.....jesus wept, the crying over the result is unreal.
I hate Labour, never vote for them but if they win an election I take it on the chin, it would be nice to see some grace from the people who lost the Remain campaign.
An example of what we will lose: my sister did a 1yr EU-funded apprenticeship in a deprived corner of France. She stayed on at that company for two more years, becoming fluent in French in the process. Then came back to the UK where she now uses the skills she learned. Winners: French company gets paid-for employee, British company gets skilled employee, sister gets skills and language, EU gets to feel all fuzzy about looking out for its citizens and deprived regions.
I think the nasty elements exposed in this referendum have a name for that sort of behaviour 🙁
Welcome to the modern UK.
Expertise is to be ignored.
Facts and truth are [s]negotiable[/s] ignored / scoffed at.
Debating is just a matter of shouting, "Rubbish!"
Ignorance is a virtue.
Serious matters are treated with as much consideration as Britain's Got Talent.
The ultimate in dumbing down.
Terrible
Agree with all that - but cheekily added my own little edit 😉
And who would pay for this socialist utopia, the EU who we've just told to shove it?...or this country with massive personal and governmental debt?....spending money is easy when it's not yours eh?....just ask Greece.
Did you miss the <Fantasy Land> caveat? But seeing as you ask, how about working out how much this is going to cost over the next 50 years, and investing a good proportion of that in reforms and infrastructure that will help those who think leaving is going to solve all their problems?
I hate Labour, never vote for them but if they win an election I take it on the chin, it would be nice to see some grace from the people who lost the Remain campaign.
FFS can you seriously not see the difference between this and an election that is held every 5 years?
philxx1975 - MemberThe blame culture is strong in this one.
...exactly whom or what did I blame?
However the education must be money well spent, it at least allows you to get all uppetty
[u][b]Uppity[/b][/u]? I do tend toward defending myself and my peers from sweeping generalisations made by uninformed (based upon posted content) morons, yes.
My mortgage is paid for at 45So what
I think this should've really been posted as [i]My mortgage is paid for at 45, so what?[/i] because that's what I thought when I read it - [b]SO WHAT?[/b]
You're implying causation from correlation. You're implying that the reason your mortgage is paid off at 45 is because [i]you're[/i] all that. In reality (and I'm making assumptions here based upon your username) The only thing you are is old. Old enough to have bought when access to the property ladder was easy, when migration and increasing house prices worked for you and now that it has, you'd like to raise the drawbridge. Despite being only 41, you're statistic put you firmly in the 55+ category where, debts and mortgage are paid and problems in the economy don't really affect you, so the rest of us be damned.
It is nothing like an election! This is permanent, end of. We will not have another chance for a generation or more. Even then, if we vote to go in, will they want us back?
Even then, if we vote to go in, will they want us back?
We haven't left yet, and they have no power to kick us out. Things would be a bit frosty for a while though, but it's always been like that.
EDIT: Sorry, you were talking about getting back in once we've left. So yes, you're right, they wouldn't.
I hate Labour, never vote for them but if they win an election I take it on the chin, it would be nice to see some grace from the people who lost the Remain campaign.
When has a general election caused a 2 $trillion share write down and caused the biggest ever one day fall in the £?
This goes way beyond party politics, it's a seismic event and will have seismic consequences (e.g. Port Talbot has just become the first casualty). 1000s will lose their jobs in the next few months, maybe 500k+ in the next year. This is going to be worse than any crash in my lifetime.
It is the single most moronic decision ever taken.
People will forget about IDS and benefit cuts or Thatcher and big bang, they will look back and wonder who the f*** chose to torpedo their economy when it had only just dragged itself out of a major recession.
FFS can you seriously not see the difference between this and an election that is held every 5 years?
Making the wild assumption that he's a Leave voters, I suspect a lot of them have no concept of the magnitude of this vote
I hate Labour, never vote for them but if they win an election I take it on the chin, it would be nice to see some grace from the people who lost the Remain campaign.
You only have to live with that decision for 5 years max, or less of the party doesn't tow Rupert's official line.
This is screwing over our kids, their kids & their kids, kids.
Lol, yes let's force through something to reverse what was a perfectly democratic process.....jesus wept, the crying over the result is unreal.
I hate Labour, never vote for them but if they win an election I take it on the chin, it would be nice to see some grace from the people who lost the Remain campaign.
FFS This is not a GE with a 4-5 yr cycle.
This is FOREVER.
"Take Back Control" is utter bollocks. We had control*, but we will be an irrelevance.
This is not going to put the Great back into GREAT BRITAIN - it will diminish us in the world.
* as being expressed at the moment regarding implementing Article 50 - nothing to do with EU, purely down to the Sovereign Govt of the U.K.
It is the single most moronic decision ever taken.
Given the avalanche of people in the papers and on social media who are now regretting their out vote I think the penny is beginning to drop. Cameron's is going to go down as the single most disastrous premiership in history. Gordon Brown and the ghost of Neville Chamberlain must be laughing their tits off.
2.2 million people sulking because they didnt get their own way !!
sometimes people lose and sometimes people win ... its called life !
I'm staying out of the main EU threads (I was on holiday and missed the last week, excellent idea) but I think this part of it is pretty interesting... Because from nowhere, the Denial Remainer has become the most annoying subclass of all. My brother's leading it out with a killer combo of "people didn't know what they were voting for" and "It's Labour's fault for not making their voters vote Remain". Which, coincidentally, is pretty much exactly what you should tell a Labour Leaver if you want to convince them they're right. It's actually worse than the 45 Tossers.
Quite neat, this- we've gone from a referendum where I thought both options were pretty shit, to an aftermath where both sides also seem to be shit.
Having said that, there's a lot of fun to be had with Farage on this, since he specifically said a 48/52 split would be "unfinished business by a long way", when he thought it'd be his side that got 48 😆
2.2m people sulking because they have had their citizenship forcibly removed from them, because they are no longer allowed to be European, no longer able to pursue their political ideals.
Not just because they 'lost' a meaningless vote...
Civil War!
Dig up Cromwell lol.
Whatever happens, I hope Britain prospers in a Spock sort of way.
Signed the petition and voted stay for the good of the economy and United Federation of planets in case the Klingons attack.
[quote=stumpy_m4 ]2.2 million people sulking because they didnt get their own way !!
sometimes people lose and sometimes people win ... its called life !
Good point, England won at cricket yesterday so it's all back in balance. Actually maybe it's even better than that, given a cricket match is probably more important than whether or not we're in the EU.
Let's end this pathetic Out nonsense.
@bikebouy I think you've totally lost the plot. Remain lost you need to move on, thats what the country will be doing, moving forward.
😆
Watch the bloke behind.
Why do you all keep slagging off the Brexit voters as stupid & keep bragging about how your university degree's make you some kind of elite. When this whole thing has been set up by your very best for your very best. You should be happy.
[img] 
[/img]
PS Corbyn doesn't own left wing voters & a re-vote would see a proper alliance between UKIP and (anti coach-ticket immigration) lefties. You really want that ?
sometimes people lose and sometimes people win ... its called life !
Err, what exactly has been won?
The self-determination to preside over the biggest economic collapse the country has seen.
Two options available:
1) a slow hand clap for the "winners",
2) try to stop this monumental fwk up
Welcome to the modern UK.Expertise is to be ignored.
Facts and truth are negotiable.
Debating is just a matter of shouting, "Rubbish!"
Ignorance is a virtue.
Serious matters are treated with as much consideration as Britain's Got Talent.
The ultimate in dumbing down.
Terrible
funniest comment so far
You're implying causation from correlation. You're implying that the reason your mortgage is paid off at 45 is because you're all that. In reality (and I'm making assumptions here based upon your username) The only thing you are is old. Old enough to have bought when access to the property ladder was easy, when migration and increasing house prices worked for you and now that it has, you'd like to raise the drawbridge. Despite being only 41, you're statistic put you firmly in the 55+ category where, debts and mortgage are paid and problems in the economy don't really affect you, so the rest of us be damned
And you think being an angry shouty little man is going to change your misfortune , yes as you get older you realise things like suck it up chum you lucked out , and no why would I care about you and your situation it has no effect on me, I was going to say you'll live but by the sounds of your little rant your blood pressure will probably give you a coronary, that's life the fact your small and insignificant is part of it.
Oh and as mentioned previously I dont have a dog in the race and I didnt vote My other home is in Edinburgh so I'm covered.