[Closed] 2nd EU Referendum Petition.....

thats what the country will be doing, moving forward.

Its not necessarily forward we will be moving but i agree the direction has been set and folk need to move on

The only way for a new vote is after negotiations and only then if enough Leave voters feel cheated but that won't happen as everything they said they will do will happen and everything everyone else predicted wont come to pass
Can you remind me how the markets moved forward into this new utopia 😉

why would I care about you and your situation it has no effect on me

Says it all bout your leave vote eh?, here you go......have an eye roll 🙄

Ahh I see you followed up with an edit, I can do that as well, so u didn't bother to vote on the greatest political situation of our generation?, well done, have a lollipop to fill the void

Signed.

Cheers O.P.

Don't think it will make a difference though.

BTW I wanted to vote out for myself as it doesn't effect me.
I voted stay in so other people wouldn't lose their jobs and the economy would be ok.

Frankenstein - Member
Civil War

To be honest, the number of posts/comments etc I've seen talking about wanting to fight / riot etc about this I wouldn't be surprised. Thankfully as it's the liberals that have lost the worst that will happen is people having edame beans pea-shooters do at them.

Funny thing is a lot of people whinging now are the same people who voted Tory at the general election.

Probably right ^^^

Philxxx1975 - you are right that we are all individually insignificant, me, you, all of us. But one does what one can. After all all it takes for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing.

In a parliamentary democracy, the game ain't over yet, and until it is we keep on trying to makes sure that we get a good result.

Even if you think you're insignificant (you are) sign the petition.

The referendum was advisory, not binding.

The more signatures there are the more confidence MPs will have to do the right thing, act in voters real interests and persuade government not to trigger Article 50.

Whats going to happen if You do get a 2nd referendum chance and you lose that as well ??
spose the do-gooders will still moan and bitch and set up another petition !

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36629324 ]BBC coverage [/url]

Now picked up on the BBC

Says it all bout your leave vote eh?, here you go......have an eye roll

Ahh I see you followed up with an edit, I can do that as well, so u didn't bother to vote on the greatest political situation of our generation?, well done, have a lollipop to fill the void

No I will selfishly admit. As with the referendum you can vote you can make your decision but unlike shouty man you dont seem to have judged with malice, so your good mannered criticism is ok in my book.

I don't want a 2nd referendum. I didn't want the first one. The only purpose the petition should serve is to show the powers that be (both home and abroad) that people still feel passionately about staying in the EU.

footflaps - Member
I hate Labour, never vote for them but if they win an election I take it on the chin, it would be nice to see some grace from the people who lost the Remain campaign.
When has a general election caused a 2 $trillion share write down and caused the biggest ever one day fall in the £?

This goes way beyond party politics, it's a seismic event and will have seismic consequences (e.g. Port Talbot has just become the first casualty). 1000s will lose their jobs in the next few months, maybe 500k+ in the next year. This is going to be worse than any crash in my lifetime.

It is the single most moronic decision ever taken.

People will forget about IDS and benefit cuts or Thatcher and big bang, they will look back and wonder who the f*** chose to torpedo their economy when it had only just dragged itself out of a major recession.

POSTED 56 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

One of the best posts I've seen so far, and I'm happy to see someone as exasperated and pissed off as I am.

Gove actually said "we're tired of experts" and probably gained popularity as a result. This would be hilarious if it was just a black comedy, but this is real. The morons who voted for this self-immolation will, in general, probably be the worst hit by it. The contradictions, ironies and sheer stupidity of this decision are breathtaking.

Now we're going to be treated to lectures on how we just need to have faith and keep trying.

Just like this guy:

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20140115151052[/img]

I signdd, but back in the real world we have to just get on with making the best of this monumental cock-up. It would be no bad thing though for bojo and co to swing in the wind for a bit. Preferably literally.

I love that guy, and the Road Runner.

I love that guy, and the Road Runner

Me too. I'm not sure about scaling the basic pretence of the cartoon up to a national level is such a good idea, though.

Probably not.

The reason why a second referendum would be good is that all the IN supporters like me would get off are arses this time and campaign locally as to why the EU is good and how locally people will loose out if we leave. Both Cornwall and Yorkshire councils are asking government to confirm they will still get the same level of funding as they did from the EU. There is a reason they needed EU funding in the first place and the south east doesn't. Central government doesn't care about you and never has, so why do you thiink they will now give you tons of money now. This is the sad fact that the poorest areas voted out but they probably get the most funding out of the EU.

the losing "side" should suck it up and move on...

I see this is becoming the post Brexit "take back control"

Still nothing to offer but soundbites and slogans, no answers, no plans in place, nothing to offer the half of the country with genuine fears for their future except more bullshit and spite. And the glorious leaders of the leave campaign conspicuous by their absence, last seen looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

"Lets take back control"
"You lost get over it"

Nothing but Trumpisms from the 'I'm alright jacks' and those too thick to realise they've probably just ****ed up the economy.

Trouble is no politician from Leave campaign seem to be interested in taking the lead on proceedings .

Are they on holiday ?

[quote=stumpy_m4 ]Whats going to happen if You do get a 2nd referendum chance and you lose that as well ??
spose the do-gooders will still moan and bitch and set up another petition !

We'll probably have to accept that there really are a majority of turkeys who will still vote for Christmas even when they've seen the menu, the oven is heating up, their heads are on the block and they can see the cook about to bring down the cleaver.

I think a lot of the people signing though have seen all the regretful Leavers and/or are expecting that some of the forecast bad stuff will happen (I mean plenty of it already is) and so make it obvious to many other Leavers that it wasn't just scare stories.

Though I tend to agree that the point of it isn't to actually have another referendum.

I don't want a 2nd referendum. I didn't want the first one. The only purpose the petition should serve is to show the powers that be (both home and abroad) that people still feel passionately about staying in the EU.

Agree with the sentiment, but would add:
- and to put pressure on MPs to seriously debate any Article 50 Bill and to do the right thing for the interests of this Country

[quote=mdavids ]"Lets take back control"
"You lost get over it"

We need suggestions on what will be next. I predict "this wasn't supposed to happen"

And you think being an angry shouty little man

I'm neither shouty nor shorty and in general, I'm certain most would descibe me as quite quiet and amiable, but you can bet your bollocks to a barn dance that on this issue alone, I'm quite angry.

and no why would I care about you and your situation it has no effect on me

How can you possibly be so egotistical about this? Can you really be so obtuse to have considered the referendum merits based solely about how it effects YOU right now at this moment? It was about everyone, for a generation or more.

Oh and as mentioned previously I dont have a dog in the race and I didnt vote My other home is in Edinburgh so I'm covered.

Stop talking about dogs and races; This isn't a game!

Please stop dropping your oh-so-subtle hints of wealth and financial security; You're sorted - we get it.

This has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook....

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

And you think being an angry shouty little man
I'm neither shouty nor shorty and in general, I'm certain most would descibe me as quite quiet and amiable, but you can bet your bollocks to a barn dance that on this issue alone, I'm quite angry.

and no why would I care about you and your situation it has no effect on me
How can you possibly be so egotistical about this? Can you really be so obtuse to have considered the referendum merits based solely about how it effects YOU right now at this moment? It was about everyone, for a generation or more.

Oh and as mentioned previously I dont have a dog in the race and I didnt vote My other home is in Edinburgh so I'm covered.
Stop talking about dogs and races; This isn't a game!

Please stop dropping your oh-so-subtle hints of wealth and financial security; You're sorted - we get it.

Are you done because your making yourself look a bit silly.

I don't really understand the point of the petition. We've had a debate and a count, everybody had a chance to express their view and the majority said out*.

We know the strength of feeling for staying in, it was slightly less than 50%

What the remain camp need to be thinking about now is how to influence the exit negotiations. It is possible that we can cut ourselves off and go for splendid isolation or we can go for something that is actually not that far removed from where we are now.

*I said In.

Both Cornwall and Yorkshire councils are asking government to confirm they will still get the same level of funding as they did from the EU. There is a reason they needed EU funding in the first place and the south east doesn't. Central government doesn't care about you and never has, so why do you thiink they will now give you tons of money now.

Quite right.

I'm a Cornishman living in Wales, and both voted "out", despite being huge beneficiaries of EU funding. I argued the case that this was not "our own money" (another massive lie), because Westminster had never given a flying fwk about investing in deprived areas.

What this Country really needs to make it great again is a coherent Industrial Strategy. The disenfranchised and discontent still haven't seen the replacement of the big, reasonably paid employers of the Industrial Age.

Coal, steel, shipbuilding, manufacturing weren't killed by the EU, they were killed by too high pay, lack of flexibility on working conditions, poor quality old school management, crap design and successive Governments with no will to see high skill, high value, high quality manufacturing succeed in a modern world.

Despite Tory rhetoric (fluffing there own core vote), small businesses are not (or certainly should not be) the "engine room of British prosperity". They're too small and run for the comfort and self interest of small business owners. Big, succesful, global businesses are the drivers of a succesful economy. If we want our economy to grow we need to attract inward investment and stop the bleed of companies going abroad.

That is not a likely Brexit outcome

As mentioned by footflaps earlier;

[url= http://news.sky.com/story/1717499/tata-steel-bidders-get-cold-feet-over-brexit ]Port Talbot steel at risk[/url]

We're less than 48 hours in. How many events like this, deep in working class Leave territory, until no-one is brave enough to press the big red "article 50" button?

I signed the petition. The brexiteers can complain and call me a bad looser or whatever. But it's not a game. We had one referendum that many think shouldn't have been called in a parliamentary democracy. The campaign was atrocious and the result was so close that another vote a few days later may have had a different result.

This is politics. If leave had lost Farage would be fighting for another bite. I would back anyone having a go at keeping us from leaving until it is clear to me that leaving is either best or that a genuine and significant majority of people really want to leave.

Then we have the terms of leaving. If the petition helps us stay even as part of the EEA I will back it. Anyway this is my opinion. I know some people will shout at me and tell me to get over it... but this matters and I'm happy to take comments.

Signing the petition is not about a second referendum - it's about getting MPs and particularly the parliamentary Conservative party to do the right thing for the Country.

Cameron played a blinder yesterday - totally blindsided all the Tory Cowards that signed the letter for him to stay on and do their dirty work - as I posted in one of the other threads:

Here you go Boris, here's the keys of No.10. You crapped in the duvet, so you clean it up

My god what have 'we' done.

The nation has basically chucked a toddler tantrum. Screamed and then deliberately shat in our own pull-ups.

Now we are sat in shitty pants thinking we have proved a point, when actually we're just sat in shitty pants looking very stupid.

😐

I don't really understand the point of the petition.[b] We've had a debate and a count[/b], everybody had a chance to express their view and the majority said out

No. We haven't had a debate.

We had a ridiculous and depressing exchange of meaningless shit.

Who debated the economy?
Who debated immigration?
Who debated sovereignty?
Who debated environment?
Who debated social policy & welfare?
Who debated employment rights?
Who debated what our future relationship with Europe looks like?
Who debated how to make Btitain attractive to investors and more competitive to the EU Countries?

Can you honestly answer any of the above?
A "debate" isn't a slagging match of "shit shit shit / fear fear fear" or "la la la were not listening"

philxx1975 - Member

Are you done because your making yourself look a bit silly.

Sweetheart - I'll be here all night. I'm typing up some research that was partially funded by the ERC (almost certainly another factor that VL didn't consider in the £350m figure plastered on the side of the bus), but I'm always willing to set aside some time for education.

Just making my

small and insignificant

Despite Tory rhetoric (fluffing there own core vote), small businesses are not (or certainly should not be) the "engine room of British prosperity". They're too small and run for the comfort and self interest of small business owners. Big, succesful, global businesses are the drivers of a succesful economy. If we want our economy to grow we need to attract inward investment and stop the bleed of companies going abroad.

I argued something similar when discussing the potential trade agreements of a post-Brexit UK: Our industry is primarily a specialism-led one, where we don't make the whole thing, we make small, important, specialist parts, for larger companies. Whilst this is an important role, it requires close trade links, such as those we had in the EU. A Britain out on it's own doesn't have the large-scale industry to be able to bargain effectively at trade talks.

It would go something like this:

China: We can send you mobile phones, tablets, computers, TVs, clothing, white goods, machine tools, bicycles, watches, toys, musical instruments etc etc. What can you send us?

Britain: [whispers between delegates] ..... errm..... how about a gearbox from a Bugatti Veyron?

China: Next!

Jonba, in the first instance the petition is reactionary. The in vote lost by the narrowest of margins in a monumental decision that is bigger than most people could even begin to appreciate. It's a petition of complete and utter disbelief that a majority of the U.K. could be so short sighted and gullible enough to cut their nose off to spite their face.

However, there could be utility in it. It appears that many people voted out as a protest vote believing that the result to stay was a foregone conclusion. But these same people now find themselves having voted for something they never wanted and are in shock. If this petition gains momentum, it may well cause another referendum where people actually make an informed vote and we drag this country back from the precipice.

Will it work? Who knows. But I sure as hell know that I am apoplectic with rage that someone has jepardised my future (and more importantly that of my unborn child) because, and this is a direct quote from someone I was speaking to today, "because I couldn't be arsed to listen to the arguments so took a punt on 'Out' for a laugh. I didn't think it would actually happen".

It might be described as snobbery or "sore losers", but the uninformed, disenfranchised, prejudiced and bigoted have between them managed to kneecap themselves and their country this week.

In my mind, ignorance is not a virtue, nor is the term necessarily offensive.

Ignorance of the facts is, however, what has led to this disastrous outcome for Britain.

This is not party politics.

This is the difference between rational decision making and emotional mob rule. Two factions within the nation have clashed and the mob have outnumbered the rational.

I and my friends, relatives and the vast majority of my colleagues are horrified and some were physically nauseated by what has happened this week.

Terrible.

Ps. The working classes are probably going to suffer most from the fall-out from the referendum. The educated, intelligent middle and upper classes have the skills, certificates, contacts and savings to cope.

philxx1975 - Member
Are you done because your making yourself look a bit silly.

Sweetheart - I'll be here all night. I'm typing up some research that was partially funded by the ERC (almost certainly another factor that VL didn't consider in the £350m figure plastered on the side of the bus), but I'm always willing to set aside some time for education.

Just making my

small and insignificant
contribution to the body of knowledge.

not as angry and shouty though, good for you calming down a tad.

jonba - Member

We know the strength of feeling for staying in, it was slightly less than 50%

That's not quite true. The strength of feeling for leaving was a little over 37.5% of registered voters (72.2% turnout of which VL capture 51.9%). Those who wished to remain or were happy enough with the status quo so as not to vote at all numbered 62.5% of the total vote.

That's why there is a petition.

Suppose we had a second referendum and the vote was to remain. Could the Brexiters then call for a third referendum ? And on and on and on and on ..........
Of course not. It's a f****** stupid idea.

dannyh plus 1

Both Cornwall and Yorkshire councils are asking government to confirm they will still get the same level of funding as they did from the EU.

The Government can't possibly know what level of funding the EU may or may not be providing in 2018 which is the earliest date we would have left the EU

[quote=thebees ]Suppose we had a second referendum and the vote was to remain. Could the Brexiters then call for a third referendum ?

They could if they thought there would be a different answer. Which is the fundamental point here - there is a significant expectation, based on plenty of evidence, that if another referendum was run on Monday there would be a different answer.

Daffy, this is the second time toady that a STW'er has claimed that non voters should be added to the remain vote. You re-define the word thick.

[quote=Nipper99 ]dannyh plus 1

The toddler analogy? I was also particularly impressed by that and think maybe he should stop while he's ahead!

Daffy, this is the second time toady that a STW'er has claimed that non voters should be added to the remain vote. You re-define the word thick.

I tend to agree: However, it does serve one purpose, and that is to demonstrate that something like this should never have been subject to a referendum in the first place. A decision that is not reversible and effects every single person in the country, boiled down to campaign soundbites.

It's fine for general elections and local elections, where if you don't like the subsequent performance of the elected official, you can exercise your democratic right to vote against them the next time. However, with this, there is no democratic right to change. Therefore, we now have 17 million people forcing 46 million people to live with their decision forever.

Ok, I hear you saying "it would be the same if the result was reversed", but that would just be a continuation of a situation we having been living under for forty years, with limited risk to those involved: it is a controllable situation.