Is it standard practice to have cupboards large enough to hide a whole class full of schoolkids in?
Everything is bigger in America.
Including their gun problem.
TBH, I was wondering if these cupboards were actually "panic rooms". The idea that such a thing would be standard in school design......
yeah i figured that was your thoughts, i dont think so, it was described as a store cupboard. i think a panic room would be a better idea then arming the teachers though for the reasons mentioned above. shame either option needs consideration really...
Morgan Freeman's [i]the man[/i].
Not sure that the car v guns argument really holds up. Alcohol, tobacco and drugs probably kill more than cars so where do we stop with the banning of specific items. We then end up with steam irons kill more than hair dryers so ban steam irons. There really is no correlation between vehicle deaths and gun deaths particularly in the UK where guns are restricted and vehicles are freely available.
As it happens there are more vehicle deaths in the US than gun deaths.
I cant understand why the thread degenerates into personal arguments when we should be thinking about the tragedy. Unfortunately the "right to bare arms" is part of what the US hold most sacred, their constitution. Until they realise the world is now a very different place than when the constitution was formulated they won't begin to prevent this.
I can only assume that the next tragedy will be an attempt on "the record" to create the worst gun tragedy in US history.
As someone who lost his hobby after Dunblane (and I fully understand why the new measures were put in place) I can see it from the gun owners point of view. What's needed is a sensible approach with all parties coming to an agreement on the best plan for moving forward to try to make their country a safer place to be.....but by all parties, I mean just that.
It's easy to blame it all on the access to machine guns but there are way more factors that need to be taking into account rather than just blaming the NRA for the ills that America suffers from. There are plenty of countries around the world that allows their citizens access to guns, allows them to defend their property and themselves but not the extent that America does.
The Morgan freeman thing is fake. Standard for the sh**e that's posted on facebook
still.. fake or not.. the message has some value..
I suspect that you too are fake comrade.. but thanks for the useful input there.. 😉
@Comrade - Let me ask how you know the Morgan Freeman thing is a fake. Plus wether or not it is it does have some substance and the best you can come up with is that its fake. I guess that you consider that a worthwhile contribution!
the ownership of guns in america as more to do with Nathaniel "Nat" Turner than the 2nd amendment,he is still the american nightmere
druidh - MemberIs it standard practice to have cupboards large enough to hide a whole class full of schoolkids in?
Was at my school. I think they were supposed to be full of stuff- books, paper, etc- but they were nice and empty because Thatcher.
....I understand the sentiment, it helps us sleep easy knowing its not our fault. On some level though, their our poor.You've not been to the 3rd world then? Maybe if their rich/powerful gave a toss, then we could be accused of doing nothing - but until those countries do more to help their poor, then I'm doing nothing else.
I was wondering if these cupboards were actually "panic rooms".
Might well come
One of the teachers was desgnate as responsible for security - not really sure what this means
The school had to be designated as a gun free zone
I would say you are in deep do do if you are at this stage
When suggestions for solutions include letting god in or arming teachers then it makes me want to shake my head in disbeleief
Its a strange a country - they think they are the envy of the world but tbh living like that would not appeal to me in any way shape or form and it has a dark under belly to the American dream and such complete individualism.
It seems that those at the margins are so disenfranchised [ with easy access to guns] that stiff like this will keep happening
What they want to do about is their problem but it would seem clear there is little need for militia or for folk to be armed lest the govt oppress them.
I dont think many will willingly give up this right so , tragic though it clearly is, I fear they may need to get used to one of these every year or so 😥
bwaarp - MemberWhat really concerns me is I think that the cats out the bag in terms of guns in the USA, there are millions and millions of illegal guns in the US and loads of recorded crime using illegal weapons....those states that have concealed carry laws have lower crime rates.
Indeed. The problem is that the country has been living with the wild west/Rambo/right to bear arms fantasy nonsense for a long time.
The public are heavily armed so criminals are heavily armed.
The argument that people should be free to own weapons to protect them from the government is somewhat twisted.
So the Americans it seems have so **** their country by allowing easy access to semi automatic weapons that it's become like nukes....ie certain countries have nukes and can't get rid of them because international security is effectively a mexican standoff.
Yes, an "Arms Race" is the phrase used. It just escalates ad infinitum ...until somebody decides to stop it.
There's a lot of fear and paranoia about crime. I've heard a lot of US citizens using the terms "bad guys" and "good guys", which suggest a somewhat quaint, over-simplified view.
It wouldn't surprise me if gun sales increased after each of these school/college/mall shootings, although handling a handgun in an emergency situation - whipping it out quickly and accurately, then shooting the armed assailant(s) without harming bystanders is easier said than done.
If the legal guns are gotten rid of, it does seem that there will still be plenty of illegal guns and crime will actually increase.
It's not going to be a quick or easy solution, but something needs to be done to [b]begin[/b] changing the arguably sick culture of violence and gun use, both domestically and with regard to foreign wars.
As somebody pointed out earlier, there is a very large difference between rural folk hunting wildlife in the forest with rifles and urban dwellers carrying semi-auto pistols on their person -something which seems absolutely ludicrous to members of other supposedly orderly societies...
[i]"Hmm, I need some milk and bread from the local shop... Where are my keys, my wallet, possibly my phone and, oh silly me, I almost forgot, my 9mm semi-automatic pistol with hollow-point rounds. I'll not walk because my assault rifle is in the car and, you never know, I might just need it "
[/i]
Having travelled about the world (USA included) without any form of firearm in my pocket or vehicle I've never felt that I needed one.
Its difficult to legislate for the insane, without trampling the rights of the sane. Makes a mockery of majority rules.
lazybike - MemberIts difficult to legislate for the insane, without trampling the rights of the sane. Makes a mockery of majority rules.
Why should the majority have the right (or the need) to carry semi-auto pistols around though?
I spent a week in Texas at a shooting competition, the thing that truly shocked me, was the fact that you can do a one day course to legally carry a concealed weapon.urban dwellers carrying semi-auto pistols on their person -something which seems absolutely ludicrous to members of other supposedly orderly societies...
JunkyardOne of the teachers was desgnate as responsible for security - not really sure what this means
The school had to be designated as a gun free zoneI would say you are in deep do do if you are at this stage
When suggestions for solutions include letting god in or arming teachers then it makes me want to shake my head in disbeleief
This was a fairly rural area too.
To the outsider it seems that they are missing the point. Ramping up the firepower isn't solving the problem.
JunkyardIts a strange a country - they think they are the envy of the world but tbh living like that would not appeal to me in any way shape or form and it has a dark under belly to the American dream and such complete individualism.
I like the US (the parts I've been to), but what struck me when I first went there was the number of visibly poor people, very run-down neighbourhoods and the level of 'scruffiness'. Outside of large cities, nobody walks anywhere either. Middle-income people had a very pleasant lifestyle though.
Despite what some people like to think, the UK has more in common with our European neighbours.
No idea...I think it's a principal thing with them.Why should the majority have the right (or the need) to carry semi-auto pistols around though?
lazybike - MemberWhy should the majority have the right (or the need) to carry semi-auto pistols around though?
No idea...I think it's a principal thing with them.
It's fairly screwed-up, that's what it is.
You or I could jump in our car and drive down to Southern Europe. At no point would we consider the need to carry fire-arms.
"Joe Middle America" considering a similar journey would probably have to consider how/where he would carry his personal side-arm and, possibly vehicle weapon, as he passed through the various states. If stopped by the law he would be careful to keep his hands in view so as not to concern the officer (with his pistol drawn).
If you or I travel to the USA and make the same journey, we would be unarmed....
How many (non-military/law) people feel that any point in their life would have been enhanced by carrying one of these concealed about their person?
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or one of these in the house/car?
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Ramping up the firepower isn't solving the problem.
It does seem they think more armed folk will stop armed folk...you can sort of see their argument but it is obvious that the best way to reduce gun crime is to massively restrict access to guns- works here for example
That said there seems to be something in the psyche of americans as well as the huge numbers of weapons.
Its a strange one in all honesty if I knew hoodlums were armed on the streets etc i suspect I would also be armed - how they break this cycle I dont know
Re concealed weapons reducing crime the picture is somewhat unclear as the reduction also coincides with the massive increase in incarceration so it may be an effect of that rather than guns per se.
While Americans only represent about 5 percent of the world's population, nearly one-quarter of the entire world's inmates have been incarcerated in the United States in recent years.[3]
Just WOW at that
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as are many things 🙂 I did notice whilst I was there that people are really polite, even on the roads, I guess knowing people maybe armed keeps everyone calm.It's fairly screwed-up, that's what it is.
Junky - thats very interesting when you look at it against this:
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Prison works?
Zulu-Eleven - do you think that the residents of the US feel safer now than they did in 1990?
I like that the rates all tail off after Ecstacy use became mainstream..
do you think that the residents of the US feel safer now than they did in 1990?
I think that the residents of most of the big cities do, but its also worth remembering what we saw happening in some of those big city pressurecookers in the early nineties, so the fear of an imminent widespread breakdown into chaos and crime was fairly realistic
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It would be interesting to see the breakdown of crime in the US to see whether crime and fear of crime has changed in smalltown USA rather than just the cities. I'd be willing to vet that 'fear' in smalltown USA is higher now than then
There's some interesting number crunching here to show that the vast majority of 'mass killings' in the US are ended by citizens rather than the police, and with much lower loss of life
http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/
Wow, a bit of a bonkers link.
It says that civilians stop lots of shootings. It neglects to highlight that civilians also start pretty much all of them.
It wouldn't surprise me if gun sales increased after each of these school/college/mall shootings, although handling a handgun in an emergency situation - whipping it out quickly and accurately, then shooting the armed assailant(s) without harming bystanders is easier said than done.
Certainly was the case after the cinema shootings earlier this year. The standard argument trotted out by the pro-gun lobby is that if everyone else was armed, if there were MORE guns, then "the public" could have returned fire and taken out the assailant.
Not sure which terrifies me more, the thought of one random killer firing away in a dark, crowded cinema or the thought that everyone else in there would pull out weapons and return fire. 😯
Some total pillock said the same about these school shootings - all teachers should be armed and trained to take out any assailants if necessary. Dear ****ing Christ, the stupidity to utter that kind of statement shows what the country is up against in dealing with this kind of thing.
Oh I know, let's have a shedload MORE guns knocking around, that'll really help. 🙄
Hence the need for a militia...
...well that yankee guvmint ain't goin protect our asses so we better get usselves tooled up.
Freakin' ridiculous.
I would aggree that the fear of crime is quite possibly the problem, not the actual likelihood of being a victim.
And so the arms race continues. Parents have guns, disgruntled boys get hold of them and shoot people. Every few months somebody really goes for it and shoots multiple people in a public building.
Everybody shakes their heads and either quietly thinks that guns are not a good ideas or calls for more weapons for all.
crazy-legs - MemberIt wouldn't surprise me if gun sales increased after each of these school/college/mall shootings, although handling a handgun in an emergency situation - whipping it out quickly and accurately, then shooting the armed assailant(s) without harming bystanders is easier said than done.
Certainly was the case after the cinema shootings earlier this year. The standard argument trotted out by the pro-gun lobby is that if everyone else was armed, if there were MORE guns, then "the public" could have returned fire and taken out the assailant.
Not sure which terrifies me more, the thought of one random killer firing away in a dark, crowded cinema or the thought that everyone else in there would pull out weapons and return fire.
Some total pillock said the same about these school shootings - all teachers should be armed and trained to take out any assailants if necessary. Dear **** Christ, the stupidity to utter that kind of statement shows what the country is up against in dealing with this kind of thing.
Oh I know, let's have a shedload MORE guns knocking around, that'll really help.
What sort of of rational talk is that??
Dear Lord, I bet you're also in favour of abortion and state healthcare, don't fear God and believe in equal opportunities.
God damn communists....
molgrips - MemberWow, a bit of a bonkers link.
It says that civilians stop lots of shootings. It neglects to highlight that civilians also start pretty much all of them.
A country that has frequent mass shootings that are required to be stopped by members of the public might need to ask itself some serious questions.
Yeah, but with something like 300 million guns in circulation, what good do you think a ban would do anyway Aristotle?
Ban them, and the only people the law would effect would be law abiding ones - the genie is more than out of the bottle.
tell you what - why do you think that all the mass killings happen in gun free zones?
Zulu-Eleven - MemberYeah, but with something like 300 million guns in circulation, what good do you think a ban would do anyway Aristotle?
Ban them, and the only people the law would effect would be law abiding ones - the genie is more than out of the bottle.
tell you what - why do you think that all the mass citizen killings happen in gun free zones?
We covered this earlier on ^^ .
The historical availability and glorification of personal firearms has resulted in large numbers in circulation, legally and otherwise (many of the mass murderers seem to be otherwise law-abiding individuals, using legally-held weapons. This may not always be the case though)
I'd suggest that something needs to be done to [b]begin[/b] changing the [b]culture[/b]. It may take decades, but probably not. It would, however, require a large enough portion of the population to be convinced...
Speaking as somebody who lives in a country that does not routinely arm Police officers, I'd suggest that the ultimate answer to the problem is not to arm primary school teachers or every other member of the population.
I'd suggest that the ultimate answer to the problem is not to arm primary school teachers or every other member of the population.
Indeed.
While Americans only represent about 5 percent of the world's population, nearly one-quarter of the entire world's inmates have been incarcerated in the United States in recent years.
One reason why USA has more inmates per capita than any other country in the world is because someone makes money out them, it's a business.
USA also has the highest amount of lawyers per capita too
Do they still have the 'three strikes' rule for convictions over there?....i like that one.
I think at the very least the Federal Govt has to ban semi and fully automatic weapons: There is no need for them in civilian life, and therefore would be the easiest option for legislation change.
I understand that Connecticut has already banned them, but the lack of Federal legislation on them (the last statute expired a few years ago) makes it incredibly hard to control.
Curious that you want to ban fully automatic weapons. There have been 2 homicides using legally held machine guns since 1934. Banning cricket bats might have more impact.
Curious that you want to ban fully automatic weapons. There have been 2 homicides using legally held machine guns since 1934. Banning cricket bats might have more impact.
So care to explain what practical use they have in civilian society? Why band semi-automatics and leave fullys legal?
Explain what practical use a cricket bat has?
Explain what practical use a cricket bat has?
Erm, playing Cricket? The last time I checked, cricket bats aren't very well suited to carrying out a mass slaying, unless the zombie apocalypse has already happened.
Are you seriously comparing a cricket bat to a fully-automatic gun? Seriously? Get a grip.
