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Good article from the Grauniad.
Ha ha. How predictable! Jonathan 'King of the Centrist dullards' Freedland and his identi-kit Corbyn articles. Great sleeping material.
I read your Guardian overload's article before I saw it posted here (and knew it would be) and my memory went back to 2017 when he wrote the 'exact' same article about Corbyn then.
Here's one of JF's failed maulings of Corbyn before the 2017 GE.
No more excuses: Jeremy Corbyn is to blame for this meltdown
A vote share of 27% he said... (Was 40)
The centrists are very much the cult here because Corbyn doesn't subscribe to their view of 'some of us did okay' Labour; so they perpetuate their fixations on taking him down with the same combination of innacurate predictions and frustrated Waitrose car park space ranting.
Filling forums with repeated anti-Corbyn bile.
Give us something new Binners.
Even the Labour Party don’t think Corbyn is a winner
It baffles me how he is still the leader.
I can only assume he is holding them to ransom somehow..does he have some damming information on some members? I cant understand anybody in that party who thinks having him there, in that capacity is a good idea!?
(Oh Dissonnace beat me to it.)
It baffles me how he is still the leader.
Because he got almost double the votes to his next nearest challenger in 2016.
It ain't hard.
The problem with a General Election would exactly be that it shouldn’t be a de facto Referendum.
That's what it will be and that's exactly what it should be in a representative democracy with one issue being overwhelmingly more important than all the others. Referendums are completely unhelpful for all the reasons we've analysed (and lived through) over the last three years.
In contrast as long as the coming election arrives before Brexit the Leave vote will be split Tory/BP and the Libdems have the monopoly on the remain vote. Libdems are already neck and neck with labour in the Polls with an entire 50pc or the electorate looking to vote for a remain party.
(The one exception to all the above being PP's idea of a Referendum in the event of a hung parliament, in which case a case could be made against a third ref except in the same circumstances which might not happen.)
but the truth is that the Labour Party under Reg is a political backwater. A failed experiment.
Nope. The change to a proper Labour party which came with Corbyn was a good one and is still popular. Having a leader who the press destroyed a few years ago and continue to destroy and that a lot of people don't like is the problem.
Get a good leader who is good on TV and can actually get the message across and a lot more people will get as far as hearing about the policies that would actually help them. They would still have the rather tricky Brexit problem to solve though.
Because he got almost double the votes to his next nearest challenger in 2016.
It ain’t hard.
err the key word is ‘still’...
Come on, it aint hard
err the key word is ‘still’…
Come on, it aint hard
Well given there hasn't been a leadership challenge since ...
Aye, we all know democracy ended in 2016 (2014 for viewers in Scotland).
Even the Labour Party don’t think Corbyn is a winner or they’d be champing at the bit for a GE.
Actually the real reason is probably cos they don’t trust Boris ( quite rightly imho ) .... Once no deal Brexit is off the table they have said he’ll get his GE
And hopefully lose his seat as a result 🤣🤣
So do you lot seriously believe that Corbyn can win the upcoming general election? That a labour majority is a realistic proposition?
Because to me, there’s a very good reason that Joris Bohnson is doing everything in his power to engineer a general election as soon as possible.
Because looking across the despatch box he’ll have the same feeling that Pep Guardiola will have had watching Southamptons 9-nil capitulation last night, and knowing you’ve got them next game.
And most labour MPs look like they’re relishing the prospect of an election about as much as Ralph Hasenhuttl will be relishing his trip to the Ethiad
Because to me, there’s a very good reason that Joris Bohnson is doing everything in his power to engineer a general election as soon as possible.
Exactly but also because he can't be trusted. Whatever Boris wants, do the opposite.
Actually the real reason is probably cos they don’t trust Boris
So why not hold an election get into power and make some changes then...
Oh hang on, its because the gutless bearded ****t knows his party will be all but wiped out.
What's gutless about avoiding a fight you suspect you won't win?
What’s gutless about avoiding a fight you suspect you won’t win?
Nothing. But you have to then put yourself in a position where you can win. And that is where it all goes wrong for Labour. They have the wrong leader and truly awful policies. I think they are done.
What’s gutless about avoiding a fight you suspect you won’t win?
Given that The Jezziah has been demanding a general election on a daily basis for the last year or so...
Whatever Boris [says he] wants, do the opposite.
Careful. Risky to think quite so simply. The timing of the next election is a real minefield. Still going to be 2020 I suspect. It should have been this summer.
Truly awful policies, yes you’re quite correct the few below sound dogshit, let’s continue the right wing race to the bottom so beloved of Patel, ids, Jrm and the other head the balls;
Labour’s economic strategy is about delivering a fairer, more prosperous society for the many, not just the few.
We will measure our economic success not by the number of billionaires, but by the ability of our people to live richer lives.
Labour will invest in our NHS, to give patients the modern, well-resourced services they need for the 21st century. Labour will ensure that NHS patients get the world-class quality of care they need and that staff are able to deliver the standards that patients expect.
Labour will continue to ensure a woman’s right to choose a safe, legal abortion – and we will work with the Assembly to extend that right to women in Northern Ireland.
It utterly baffles me why Starmer isn't Labour leader.
It has to be Jeremy
Nobody can remeber quite why any more
But it just does!
OK?!
It's not rocket science. Get someone who isn't controversial or a non-committal idiot and who seems professional who would appeal to more people outside of their party bubbles. It just seems both main parties are cutting off their noses etc etc. I guess there's politics within politics!
Labour’s economic strategy is about delivering a fairer, more prosperous society for the many, not just the few.
Is that you Diane?, come on own up!
But seriously it all sounds too good to be true and probably is. But again, why not hold an election, those policies will be sure to win hearts and minds, Labour must surely be onto a winner.
Come on beardy give us an election, show the country what your party is made of!!
(a lot of sh@te if you ask me)
There's a lot to be said for delaying an election just to be able to watch johnson swinging ineffectually in the wind, making one error after another.
But it would be a better strategy if labour were not so far behind in the polls.
Truly awful policies, yes you’re quite correct the few below sound dogshit,
Those arent really policies, they are slogans, or hopes. Having a written description of how to get there would be a policy. Which is where current Labour falls down.
Oh hang on, its because the gutless bearded ****t knows his party will be all but wiped out.
Actually it’s cos they don’t trust the blonde lying **** in no10 not to connive some sort of no deal Brexit while the politicians are all on the election trail,
Don’t forget no deal is the default position if the rest of the EU deny an extension,
And a no deal is exactly what the blond in no 10 and his rich cronies want so they can screw the rest of us good n proper 🤮
And hopefully lose his seat as a result
Boris's seat is a sitting duck AFAIC with Labour in a close second place. The only way Labour could lose is to field an out an out extremist there... Oh wait....
Some quotes from Ali Milani:
“Nah u won’t mate. It’ll cost you a pound #jew.”
“I want to be the President of Israel. They have a self desruct button right ?”
“your Israel is a land built on ethnic cleansing and colonialism. Oppression is something your people should know about”
“Israel has no right to exist”
“@piersmorgan u are a zionist and corperate [sic] jackass”
Plus 'working with Friends of Al Aqsa'.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/users/ali-milani
The fact Momentum picked Milani to contest an embattled PM in his vulnerable seat makes me suspect they are utterly incapable of selecting a leader like this:
Get someone who isn’t controversial or a non-committal idiot and who seems professional who would appeal to more people outside of their party bubbles.
Starmer would be a vote harvesting machine right now everywhere in the UK outside of Momentum.
It utterly baffles me why Starmer isn’t Labour leader.
^^This. Starmer at least has some credibility and statesmanship about him. If he was deputy leader, things would be very different I think.
Remember the role of opposition leader is to be a credible threat to the PM and so keep the incumbent government in check - magic grandad is neither credible or statesman like so it's no wonder the Conservative party are able to field someone like BoJo without much risk.
^^This. Starmer at least has some credibility and statesmanship about him. If he was deputy leader, things would be very different I think.
Remember the role of opposition leader is to be a credible threat to the PM and so keep the incumbent government in check – magic grandad is neither credible or statesman like so it’s no wonder the Conservative party are able to field someone like BoJo without much risk.
Agree. The difference is Tory party can and will jettison BoJo the second he becomes a liability[1]. Labour can't jettison Momentum, they've taken over at every level outside the PLP.
[1] Personally I think that will be about 34 seconds after Brexit is done and the next election is fought or 12 months before the election after that.
This. Starmer at least has some credibility and statesmanship about him. If he was deputy leader, things would be very different I think.
You're confusing what you want with what the membership wants.
Also - why the love for barristers?
The opposition needs a sharp mind right now.
Remember the role of opposition leader is to be a credible threat to the PM and so keep the incumbent government in check – magic grandad is neither credible or statesman like so it’s no wonder the Conservative party are able to field someone like BoJo without much risk.
Are you a Binners clone?
It's not about being a 'threat'. The amount of things the leader of the opposition has to juggle in these divisive times doesn't come down to being a threat to the PM. It's more about trying to keep the strands together (Leave voting Labour constituencies, PLP, CLP, Labour remain etc.)
JC is on his third PM ...
Why do people keep going on about statesmen too? Repeating some Guardian claptrap without considering what the electorate/country might actually need in terms of reversing austerity etc - has nothing to do with statesmanship.
The opposition needs a sharp mind right now.
Who defines a sharp mind? It's completely nebulous.
And if you are referring to Keir Starmer - he is effectively in the correct role! he supports Corbyn and does his job with regard to his title.
But that doesn't mean he is leadership material or he will get voted in - just because people on here think he should be leader.
And there are no guarantees he wouldn't face exactly the same issues/outcomes as Corbyn. But hey - he doesn't have a beard and he's a statesman.
Well, it requires a brighter mind to become a barrister than a … whatever it is Corbyn was before he become a career politician.
JC is on his third PM …
I’d rather we had a Labour PM than keep watching Conservative leaders getting their go.
Well, it requires a brighter mind to become a barrister than a … whatever it is Corbyn was before he become a career politician.
But I don't want my party to be lead by a barrister. Been there done that haven't we?
Starmer can still benefit us with his 'sharp' mind in his current role.
Corbyn a career politician. Really? I think Corbyn has made his career very difficult then by not taking any easy options.
I’d rather we had a Labour PM than keep watching Conservative leaders getting their go
So would I - but we're in complex times aren't we?
You’re confusing what you want with what the membership wants.
...and the membership wants permenent tory rule so they can wave their placards from the sidelines and rail against the injustice of it all, while parading their righteous indignation as a badge of honour
Idealogical purity comes before everything, comrade.
JC is on his third PM …
Brilliant! Give us a shout when he outlasts his 20th, while still in ineffectual opposition, won't you?
Corbyn a career politician.
The very definition of one.
What else has he done career wise in his long working life?
Idealogical purity comes before everything, comrade.
They just want a real labour party in power, not a sad imitation tory apologist one. This is the legacy of Blair (along with 1 million dead people in Iraq but that's old news apparently). The reason Corbyn is leader now, and why the membership will elect another leftwinger after him is because Blair abandoned everything that was held dear to labour members and supporters. So next time you go on about how great he was (apart from the 1 million dead people of course), just remember he caused all this. A political party doens't need to be idealogically pure, but it does need ideals, that's all the membership want (and no more deaths on their consciences).
What else has he done career wise in his long working life?
Well he didn't kill 1 million people, that's got to count for something. Seriously though, what is wrong with being a politician and more importantly a political activist working for peace?
A political party doens’t need to be idealogically pure, but it does need ideals, that’s all the membership want
When it comes to BREXIT, what are those ‘ideals’?
When it comes to freedom of movement of workers, what are those ‘ideals’?
When it comes to frictionless trade with the rest of Europe, what are those ‘ideals’?
Well he didn’t kill 1 million people, that’s got to count for something.
Remember, I refused to vote Labour under Blair, because of that war, and those deaths… because of ideals.
Seriously though, what is wrong with being a politician and more importantly a political activist working for peace?
Nothing at all. @Rone was claiming that he wasn’t a career politician. I think that he is. I also think he doesn’t have the mind needed to be something like a barrister… to some that doesn’t matter… I, personally, think we may need someone smarter leading Labour, and ultimately being PM, in the months ahead.
As long as the Labour party remains pure we will just have to put up with an eternal Tory government.
Evolve you stupid ****ers ,your job is to beat the Tories by any means necessary.
@Rone was claiming that he wasn’t a career politician.
I would describe him as a lifelong peace activist and campaigner for social justice rather than a career politician. A career politician is someone who pursues high office as a primary goal. For obvious reasons I don't think Corbyn is anywhere close to this, which IMO makes him a much better candidate for high office than those who seek it.
Are you a Binners clone?
It’s not about being a ‘threat’. The amount of things the leader of the opposition has to juggle in these divisive times doesn’t come down to being a threat to the PM. It’s more about trying to keep the strands together (Leave voting Labour constituencies, PLP, CLP, Labour remain etc.)
JC is on his third PM …
Why do people keep going on about statesmen too? Repeating some Guardian claptrap without considering what the electorate/country might actually need in terms of reversing austerity etc – has nothing to do with statesmanship.
Hate to say it, but I'm nobody's clone. I can just see through corbyn's wooly nothingness.
Of course the opposition leader needs to be a threat - if he's unelectable because he's so useless, indecisive, unclear on intentions and unable to control his troops, there's nothing forcing the incumbents to behave in fear of losing to a challenger. Which is why we've seen the creep in the Conservative party and Boris in power, when previously he'd never have had a chance. Essentially, the least unpalatable to the electorate wins, and right now that's Boris (for the record I'm no supporter of his!).
Why do we need someone statesman like? The prime minister is CEO of GB Inc - he or she needs to be a credible, strong and respective front man/woman for the country's interests on the global stage, be a good presenter, a charismatic speaker, well reasoned and actually have the balls to act. Corbyn is none of those things.
To reverse austerity, a PM needs to generate revenues - which means winning the confidence of the business community. Again, this is something Corbyn fails at.
As long as the Labour party remains pure we will just have to put up with an eternal Tory government.
Evolve you stupid **** ,your job is to beat the Tories by any means necessary.
Couldn't agree with you more!
Do they want to be a permanent opposition that appeals to a diminished crowd with shrinking influence, or actually make a difference?
So we end up with a permanent Tory government because...
Iraq
Brilliant!
Hate to say it, but I’m nobody’s clone.
And yet you trot out all the usual tabloid nonsense as if it's gospel.
or actually make a difference?
Trouble is if you abandon all your principles in the pursuit of power you make very little difference. Having bragging rights over the opposition and ministerial salaries and cars might be nice, but many in the labour party want more than that. As I've said many times before, politics is not a sport.