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There is a huge swathe of people in this country that long for moderate, centre ground politics and are so horrified by right wing Trumpist populism on the one side and hard left leanings on the other, that they feel politically bereft.
I know FPTP messes things hugely, but why did these people not vote LD? or Green even as a protest?
A LD bump in votes would of been a catalyst for some movement in the centre. They ended up -1 seats.
Corbyn/Momentum get a lot of (possibly justified to an extent) stick for being too far left for people, but if those people cannot be bothered to vote for the one centre party on offer then they are to blame too. That or the numbers are not as big as some people think.
You've got to hand it to Nicola Sturgeon.
In her tenure as party leader in Westminster elections the SNP have won an astonishing 78.5% of the seats that they've contested.
That's North Korea and Zimbabwe levels of electoral success and i'd imagine makes her one of the most effective party leaders in any Western democracy in modern times.
Unfortunately, as far as the UK Parliament goes all this success has managed to is transform the SNP from an invisible irrelevance to slightly more visible irrelevance.
I don't imagine i'll get the chance to vote for indyref2 anytime in the next decade.
Corbyn should have called a VONC and tried to form a minority government when he had the numbers.
The moment has passed.
Binners was right all along.
Brexit Party / UKIP are done, purpose served. Farage will be unbearable, but he once again failed to get any MPs elected, of course that wasn’t his goal, his goal was to draw voters from Labour.
Yes, but their silent pressure have stronger impact on any govt than other opposition parties. They don't have to have a seat to push the govt in a certain direction.
The next GE will be interesting to see a new opposition party surfacing ...
Not come to argue or get my point across this morning and this will be my 1st and last post on a political thread on STW...
....however this is about the only place I can come to share my sense of despair and sadness.
Not even sure why I’m sad as ultimately the wheels will roll on I just am. ☹️
As you were 👍
Be nice to each other 👍
Corbyn should have called a VONC and tried to form a minority government when he had the numbers.
And then what? A softer Brexit deal would have collapsed that government within weeks, a second referendum would have been comprehensively lost - see last night, and the subsequent general election would put us at this point, just another six months down the track.
Those of us who desperately wanted Brexit reversed were chasing a mirage, a hope that the population might come to its senses and change its mind. The reality is that people had either hardened their positions or withdrawn from political engagement entirely due to the delay and infighting.
We have to acknowledge the clarity of thought behind Cummings' election strategy. Repeat three words ad infinitum, win.
The real opportunity for Labour was during the 2016 referendum campaign - it was at this point they had the duty to persuade their core vote, and then capitalise on the Tory disarray afterwards. That moment passed, and everything since has been an illusion.
Brexit Party / UKIP are done, purpose served.
I've heard him say his next job is "the reform party." He's not gonna go away 😰
I see the kinder, gentler politics is continuing as planned.
https://twitter.com/hughster/status/1205435610292531200?s=19
A LD bump in votes would of been a catalyst for some movement in the centre. They ended up -1 seats.
They did get 1.2m more votes than in the last election.
Jo lost her seat to the SNP, and whilst I’m gutted for her... and I really am, it does show that the SNP are indeed the party that will challenge the Torytards.
I’m sure I’ve been wrong all the way along this journey we’ve had, from the early calls by CallMeDave for a referendum from a bloke who likes to piss on tramps in the street as part of some initiation ceremony, but it seems my moderate political stance and support for a fairer society is indeed wrong.
Smash and grab, whilst you have the opportunity. That opportunity will not be around for long.
Because for millions of people, due to FPTP, it isn’t?
Conservatives always get in, in my constituency but off I went with my tactical voting hat on in the hope sufficient numbers of likeminded individuals would do the same. I can’t understand the apathy that people who are happy just to see how things play out, have.
I’ve heard him say his next job is “the reform party.” He’s not gonna go away 😰
Isn't electoral reform and proportional representation what all left wing parties have been clamouring for? He could be their new favourite politician! 🙂
At least the tactical voting kept things respectable :+)
Time to stop moaning and making excuses for many of you I'm afraid.
a second referendum would have been comprehensively lost – see last night,
I don't think this election was won or lost on the desire for Brexit or not.
It was the result of 3 years of attrition and an understanding of mass psychology.
The Tories understood that people as a collective mass don't actually care that much about the details and just want to be left alone so they offered a simplistic solution. i.e Funny man does silly things but will make it all go away. "Nurses good. Darkies Bad. Get Brexit Done" A three word mantra
Labour, on the other hand don't get that at all. They think that people are scrutinising intricate policy details and don't care about the superficial things like voting for a creepy old beardy weirdy guy who looks like a tramp.
Sturgeon on the aother hand, gets both. She's all over the intricate detail but still appeared on my TV the other night to tell the electorate that "Boris is a Bam"
Will it? Do you mean a re-invigorated Labour or something else?
No, it will probably come from a new party.
Labour is spent if they hang on to their traditional belief coz once UK is out of EU, UK will need to be as entrepreneurial as possible to survive and Labour does not provide that.
Smash and grab, whilst you have the opportunity. That opportunity will not be around for long.
You're better than that.
It's now time for everyone with a shred of compassion left to try and do what we can for the most vulnerable.
No one else will.
exsee
Member
At least the tactical voting kept things respectable :+)
Time to stop moaning and making excuses for many of you I’m afraid.
And you don't think that traditional Labour voters in "leave" constituencies, pissed off that their MP was holding things up and voting Conservative were not voting tactically then?
It was the Sun wot won it.
Well the right wing media for sure. 5 years of drip, drip, drip negativity about Corbyn (some of it deserved but the majority of it wildly exaggerated and overplayed). Decades of drip, drip, drip negativity about Europe.
Blair only won when he had the support of the Sun.
If this election is anything it's another example of how much influence billionaire media baron's wield in our "democracy"
Perchy
Very sadly ,that is spot on.
Perchy has it I think.
I think it’s fascinating the number of new contributors to this thread with smug comments, none of which could be bothered to provide any argument as to why people should vote Tory before the day. Almost as if they are ashamed, or can’t justify their motives...
If this election is anything it’s another example of how much influence billionaire media baron’s wield in our “democracy”
This too, rings true.
Labour, on the other hand don’t get that at all. They think that people are scrutinising intricate policy details and don’t care about the superficial things like voting for a creepy old beardy weirdy guy who looks like a tramp.
If Labour had taken the Tories approach to campaigning it would've worked well?
Labour always had a real problem. The Blair offering was not sufficiently differentiated from the Cameron Tories - if you were poor, you were still going to be ****ed over, it's just that the Blairites would shed crocodile years while doing it instead of cackling with glee. So when Labour decided to try actual socialism, I thought it would be a good thing. What I failed to account for was that the actual socialists would be such incredibly incompetent politicians. Combine that with the other big problem for Labour, that most of their traditional working class vote comes from actual racist xenophobic fascists, and they were always going to struggle. I really can't see where they go from here, although the Tories complete capitulation to the far right has opened up a gap between them and the Blairites again.
Well the right wing media for sure. 5 years of drip, drip, drip negativity about Corbyn (some of it deserved but the majority of it wildly exaggerated and overplayed). Decades of drip, drip, drip negativity about Europe.
The Tories understood that people as a collective mass don’t actually care that much about the details and just want to be left alone so they offered a simplistic solution.
We have to acknowledge the clarity of thought behind Cummings’ election strategy. Repeat three words ad infinitum, win.
All this. They're strong marketeers and so much of politics is marketing. The problem is the apparent lack of willingness to debate, engage or even be truthful about what's behind the marketing lines and the wealthy press owners doing the work for them. Habits and interests can change that but it takes a real bump to change people.
It's about the quality of the politics more than the outcomes, within rational range of outcomes of course -if we see 'manifesto point page 48' on the relationship between law and government taken to extremes things could get very dark but right now rationality is more important that any worst-case panic.
With a large majority my hope is that they can ease off on that populist marketing tactic and work in the country's best interests but it feels naive to think that's likely, especially without a strong opposition. Would happy to be proven wrong.
Farage was on TV last night outlining his priorities; a written constitution, PR and abolishing the House of Lords.
If Labour had taken the Tories approach to campaigning it would’ve worked well?
Nope, because they don't have anyone who is charismatic enough to outshine Boris.
David Milliband might have pulled it off. They need a tall, good looking white male with nice hair or a slim , well groomed but super intelligent and slightly intimidating woman.
And a catchy slogan.
No western democarcy has elected a leader with a beard in decades. They've failed on the superficial stuff and, at the end of the day that's what matters most to get elected.
abolishing the House of Lords
He's going to snap their hand off when they offer him a peerage.
Farage was on TV last night outlining his priorities; a written constitution, PR and abolishing the House of Lords.
I never thought I'd agree with Farage on anything. He's scored a hat trick with those three.
No western democarcy has elected a leader with a beard in decades.
Yeah sure, Corbyn’s problem is that he was just too hard working and detailed.
Also, the arrogance displayed by some people is despicable. If poor people vote labour they are fighting for their rights, if poor people vote for conservative then they are racists/fascists. Just admit it, you don’t care about them, it’s power.
In addition, it seems these days that labour also caters to a specific branch of xenophobia.
Here in Bassetlaw the Tories took a 5000 deficit to a 14,000 lead. Tories have double the vote of Labour in an ex-mining community.
I grew up there. My dad was a miner. With a German wife. Today would have been his birthday. I'm feeling a bit sick on his behalf.
Ed Millband had the charm of a wet mouldy sock.
Also Mariano Rajoy was elected in Spain, and he has a bushy beard.
As humble as ever Flashy.
Well, we now know how futile a second Brexit referendum would have been. Would’ve lost that one by a bucketload too.
CON + BRX share of the vote = 46%
The comments above cover all the main reasons:
- the UK press being almost exclusively right wing
- voters prioritising charisma over policies
- corbyn's unelectability (surely he's secretly a tory and this was part of his grand plan?)
- polarisation of the parties leaving moderate voters no where to go
What really pisses me off is the superior attitude of many “liberal progressives” on this thread. The hand-wringing which is going on now that the poor unfortunates living rough on the streets are going to be forsaken or the foreigners who are going to get their comeuppance at the hands of the racist, fascists now in power.
Please could you possibly point me at any socialist/liberal/democratic government here or across Europe who has in the past or is now doing anything to overcome this Europe-wide problem?
I did a web search, Finland apparently. I suggest you all sell your BMWs and Audis and book your tickets now.
Turnout in Canterbury was 75%, the highest it's been since 92 and on average about 10% higher than all the neighbouring wards. I saw streams of young people going in and out when I went to vote and I assume this is what's made the difference. One of the very few southern constituencies to remain Labour, actually increasing the majority to a couple of thousands up from only a couple of hundred two years ago (the win in 2017 following something like 180 years of Tory control!!)67% turnout, utterly depressing that almost exactly a third of the electorate just couldn’t be arsed to get out and vote.
Somehow people have managed to get the young/students really engaged here which is very encouraging for the future. Just a shame it couldn't have been replicated elsewhere!
Somehow people have managed to get the young/students
really engagedbrainwashed here which is very encouraging for the future. Just a shame it couldn’t have been replicated elsewhere!
Fixed that for you
Ed Millband had the charm of a wet mouldy sock.
Agreed, Not Ed.
David.
Also Mariano Rajoy was elected in Spain, and he has a bushy beard.
Yeah, but he's one of those "Europeans". They're not to be trusted.
Brian Blessed could pull it off though so i'll concede the point.
And you don’t think that traditional Labour voters in “leave” constituencies, pissed off that their MP was holding things up and voting Conservative were not voting tactically then?
You've described straightforward politics.
There was a 76% correlation between % unskilled workers and % swing from LAB to CON and LIB to CON. Plotted in today's FT. That's a very impressive result# on over 600 data points and it is valid right down to Labour (-ve swing) winning in Putney and up to Bolsover. The working classes wanted Brexit and they voted to get it. Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.
% Swing ~ 0.5*(% working class - 20) and valid for negative swing too.
Gifted link you should be able to open https://on.ft.com/2LO1eNp
the SNP are indeed the party that will challenge the Torytards.
Can we get them to march south?
No, it will probably come from a new party.
Well they'll need to get their skates on if they are to be ready to challenge in 5 years.
I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with that - but that's essentially what ALL political campaigning is so not really a valid criticism! It's no worse than how your average Tory voter has been brainwashed by the media & jolly old Boris (on a massive scale!!) At least the students have been brainwashed on the side of good, not evil 😂 Or maybe they just care about each other/the future?!Somehow people have managed to get the young/students really engaged brainwashed here which is very encouraging for the future. Just a shame it couldn’t have been replicated elsewhere!Fixed that for you
I can't see how the SNP can be denied another ref on this result, 48 out of 59 for a nationalist party "is we want independence and we want it now!"
I mean, I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but it’s no worse than how your average Tory voter has been brainwashed by the media & jolly old Boris (on a massive scale!!) At least the students have been brainwashed on the side of good, not evil 😂 Or maybe they just care about each other/the future?!
Tory voters don't get brainwashed, they just grow older, get a bit of money in their pockets and realise where the country's best interest lies. I think Tony Blair did a brilliant job of getting a shedload of millenials into colleges and universities who wouldn't normally go but who identify with Corbyn. They will hopefully learn in time.
Not sure what positives there are....
The LDs increased their majority by 7 points here. We an island in a sea of blue, perhaps we should go for independence. Shame about Jo, I get the dislike but I don't share the hate for her.
errrm
I'm in the top 5% so I'll get a tax cut right?
errr
Strong and stable something something?
Sorry can't think of any more.
I think it’s fascinating the number of new contributors to this thread with smug comments, none of which could be bothered to provide any argument as to why people should vote Tory before the day. Almost as if they are ashamed, or can’t justify their motives…
Twas curious, can understand my Twitter bubble protecting me from tory voters but the demographic on here pre election would have suggested Corbyn had it in the bag. Likewise the people I'm still in touch with in the UK were all labour. Apart from a few elderly relatives there's no one to cross off my Xmas list.
Tory voters don’t get brainwashed, they just grow older, get a bit of money in their pockets and
realise where the country’sare conned into thinking where their own best interest lies
FTFY