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Millions of people in this country take drugs frequently with no issues at all
And some are completely ****ed up by it in very short order. I know of a couple of chaps in their 20's who have had to radically change their life choices as a result of smoking weed between 16 and 20. One was sectioned (oh what fun for his parents).
Seosamh if your youngster experiences anything like the two I note above you would be a little less sanguine about it.
I’m frankly aghast that you know the details of the child supplying other children with drugs leading them to commit other crimes to fund their habits but seem reluctant to do anything with them.
Quite apart from the rest of the hang-em-and-flog-em nonsense in your post, this point in particular needs a response. The OP has already said he is concerned about recriminations if he goes to the cops. You think he needs the worry of looking over his shoulder on top of dealing with his son?
This stuff isn't to be messed with, you don't have to go high up the ladder of dealing networks to get to some pretty dodgy people, and they won't take kindly to being shopped. And even if they are nicked, it'll have very little effect in the grand scheme of things, someone else will step in to the gap in the market, and the drugs will still be available.
I’ve got his dealers name and details, and a few others so straight to the plod with that. Need to somehow regain his trust as he’s not talking to me.
Phew. Glad to see you rethought this approach later in the thread. Doubt it would have had the desired effect.
Good luck
Out of interest,
Have you spoken to him about why he's habitually taking this stuff? If he's doing it in his room then it's not (or is no longer) peer pressure. Is it purely recreational, or is he self-medicating because of something else that's bothering him? Maybe if you unpick, say, undiagnosed clinical depression you'd have a root cause which could be tackled rather than a symptom.
Why don't you inform the school who the other kid is who is dealing to pupils?
I am also one of those who has seen kids try and self medicate and destroy their mental health to a point it will have life long consquences. I am not against drugs but I don't think it is OK the way some people are just saying it is OK for kids to do it, some can do but they need to be educated to understand if they are an at risk group and identify risks and how to experiment safely. Also people, saying it is legal in some countries, what countries is it legal at 16?
Sandwich
I know of a couple of chaps in their 20’s who have had to radically change their life choices as a result of smoking weed between 16 and 20. One was sectioned (oh what fun for his parents).
The bit in bold is the bit I've got an issue with, you seem certain the weed is what caused the issues, perhaps the weed was just a symptom.
Not saying either way in the cases you mention, just seems a bit too easy to say they went off the rails cause of the weed. Well maybe, but they could have gone to the weed cause they were going off the rails.
Drugs are all about moderation at the end of the day, it's perfectly viable for the majority to take them without issues, a few will develop issues, but most get on fine with them.
Then there's percentage of the population that have issues to begin with, it's probably not going to end well for them.
They are however a part of life, and a lot of people are going to participate.
Messages of instant doom and destruction are somewhat far fetched when you look at the numbers that do actually participate.
Wow, just read most of this thread.
OP has some tough but cautious decisions to make by the sound of it.
Never taken drugs of any kind (other than prescribed) and didn't realise the effects of some of them - especially Ketamine.
Bring catheterised is no fun - my wife had to have a temporary one when pregnant. Walking around with a bag of pee strapped to your leg is crap, especially when you have to empty it, re-connect etc - especially if it leaks....
Which ever way you look at it it's illegal at 16.
What does/did he want to do when he leaves school?
Good luck.
My cousin can't show his face in town, or Essex in general, for fear of being shanked after he got into debt (five grand) with the local drugs King pin.
I always made a point of not smoking piece/bar/shit after the amount of plastic we found mixed in with it. But really, that is by the by....
You have my sympathy OP.
You are right to be very worried about your lad, but don't immediately jump to the worst case scenarios like a ruined bladder, Coke addiction etc.
What's really concerning is that ket is not a drug most people feel like taking daily, it's not exactly more-ish.
It's really good that he's agreed to counselling, as there may be an underlying issue - and even if not it will get him thinking about what he's doing.
Does he have much else going on in his life?
I think the testing kits are a good idea. I think I’d do the same. Dreading the day my girls come home smelling of weed but I expect it. I know loads of people that smoked and still smoke very heavily. Most are absolutely fine, one not so much. Most will grow out of it. I think he’ll still do it whatever you say, being there and supportive like the kits is good. I hope it will pass.
Ok so today had been better, he's opened up to his mum about it. He's been feeling depressed for a few years, probably exacerbated by is splitting up. He's been taking drugs as an escape, to act the fool, feel more fun.
So I've asked him if he'll come and do more outdoorsy activities with me, biking, surfing, climbing. He's keen. I've suggested we help him avoid his friends for a while I'll take him and pick him up from school.
Counsellor for drug use, and counsellor for the depression, alongside a visit to his gp.
We're not out of the woods by a long shot but at least we've found the cause, now to get a cure or at least learn how to cope.
Good news from the OP, good luck
The legality, health risks and all the rest can be debated to the cows come home by the I did it/ do it members of the forum
But
This stuff isn’t to be messed with, you don’t have to go high up the ladder of dealing networks to get to some pretty dodgy people, and they won’t take kindly to being shopped.
My cousin can’t show his face in town, or Essex in general, for fear of being shanked after he got into debt (five grand) with the local drugs King pin.
This
A 16 year old can't fund a heavy drugs habit legally unless they are pretty exceptional
They will either be dealing, stealing or selling everything. Or racking up a debt to unsavoury people, who will then use that to get them to do things that could permanently affect their future
Well to get money it would appear that they set up scam accounts on Instagram or Snapchat dealing, accept bitcoins but never deliver. Kids nowadays are far too canny with this technology!
ON Cannabis and psychosis. There is a link for sure. What that link is is very unclear ( as in sootyandjims post above)
3 theories.
direct causal - few folk believe this as psychosis in cannabis users remains very rare and the incidence is not high so direct cause can be pretty well ruled out
Trigger - that people with a tendency to psychotic breakdown take cannabis and it triggers a psychosis in these few vulnerable people
Co incidence - less stable folk in general take drugs and some self medicate so the link merely is a higher predisposition to psychosis among those who use cannabis
Personally I think it is trigger.
One of the unfortunate side effects of prohibition is that quality research is almost impossible as you have to rely on self reported drug use. this means issues like the one around cannabis and psychosis cannot be properly explored
Most of the harm around drugs comes from prohibition not the actual drugs themselves ie poor quality supply, debt and manipulation, crime, and lack of knowledge both but users and professionals
educated to understand if they are an at risk group and identify risks and how to experiment safely.
this
One of the unfortunate side effects of prohibition is that quality research is almost impossible as you have to rely on self reported drug use.
High quality research may also be unethical in the same way that high quality helmet research would be for similar reasons.
That's good progress OP.
Sounds like your lad is quite self aware, which bodes well.
Is he gonna be going to the same school for long?
Sounds like some good progress OP. Great idea to find different activities for him to engage with. Anything local where he could find a new peer group? He will need this if/when he chooses to move away from drugs. Maybe not one with a drinking culture like rugby though!
Must be honest, I was your son 25 years ago. Sometimes, drugs are great, that's an undeniable truth. Sometimes, they're the most horrific thing in the world. At 16, your son will be inclined to focus on the first, because he thinks he's bulletproof. Fundamentally, you can't stop him making poor choices but you can show him positive options. Good luck!
OP has now been manipulated to accepting his CHILD regularly smoking illegal drugs. Combined with thinking he’s the one who has to gain his sons trust (you don’t – your son abused your trust don’t be guilted into pandering to his childish tantrums). Pretty standard behaviour for addicts.
This,hopefully the OP will get the right guidance on coping with an addict in the family.
The son is not an addict. He is a dabbler in a dangerous place. He needs calm rational advice and support to ensure he does not eff up his life. Not having children myself I am really in no position to advise the OP on how to deal with his son but hysterical nonsense will not help. Calm rational informed discussions?
Cha****ng, he's in final year of secondary so an important year. I'm shit scared about helping him get through the very long summer he'll have. Might have to take him out on the road with me for a while. That way I can pay him (into a savings account), he can see how shit life on the road is, and I get to keep an eye on him. It might make him think twice about careers!
He's had a good day with his mum, I've had our daughter for the day which has been fab, she's fully aware of what's going on, and how we're trying to help him.
When I was in my early 20’s I met a guy from the same school as me I hadn’t seen for years who was out of work. He started with us as a labourer and was a wee grafter. Started smoking soap bar and within a year was a disaster; knew what to buy in Tesco medicine isle to keep a lid on things till he was paid, used to smoke a single skin on the way to work etc. This is how he finished up.
It was about stolen weed. When he got out on weekend release, he failed the tests. Now you have folk who go on about underlying issues etc, but this is a guy who could take or leave booze, had given up smoking when he started with us. For me, people point to alcohol abuse as justification for legalisation, but why is it a race to the bottom?
To the OP good luck 👍 you are on the worst rollercoaster imaginable. Your boy needs help and support but so do you.
I wish you all, all the best 🙏
Good work OP, you've got a dialogue open and a plan to change direction.
Good luck with it.
OP - good luck with it, a friend of mine who was a very gifted mathematician (one of the best at Oxford) ruined his future through excess weed smoking leading to mental breakdown so I hope you can pull him through this. I wish you both every success.
.
The son is not an addict.
This. I much prefer the language the professionals use, which is simply 'drug user'. We all do it to greater or lesser extents with various substances. If a couple of months frequent use means you're an addict then 99% of us on here are or have been alcoholics.
I sincerely hope this works out for you OP. I have got two kids (eleven and eight) and this stuff scares me stiff.
Uhhhh . . . everyone seems to miss the fact that marijuana has serious neurological effects on developing brains.
So every time your teenager smokes pot, it negatively effects their physiological development.
More here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/
I don't think we will have any useful data on the effect of cannabis on the developing brain for a few years yet, given the change in strength, availability and frequency of use at a younger age for this generation of young adults.
Good luck Op
duckman
Subscriber
When I was in my early 20’s I met a guy from the same school as me I hadn’t seen for years who was out of work. He started with us as a labourer and was a wee grafter. Started smoking soap bar and within a year was a disaster; knew what to buy in Tesco medicine isle to keep a lid on things till he was paid, used to smoke a single skin on the way to work etc. This is how he finished up.It was about stolen weed. When he got out on weekend release, he failed the tests. Now you have folk who go on about underlying issues etc, but this is a guy who could take or leave booze, had given up smoking when he started with us. For me, people point to alcohol abuse as justification for legalisation, but why is it a race to the bottom?
Sounds like yer man was just a bam..
Or he tried something that he liked too much and nobody took it seriously because “he just loved a wee toke.”
So a wee toke leads to caving someones nut in with a baseball bat? 😆
Well Laurie has been great today, my mum's 80th. But I can see he's like a coiled spring. His mum allowed him to have a smoke last night, not sure how I think about that.
Met with his best friend's parents this morning, seems that both kids are coming from the same depression self diagnosis, which makes me even more sceptical about it.
I suggested going for a walk on Sunday afternoon so the boys can have a bit of contact, but we can keep an eye on them.
Three other father had previously been threatened by their dealer over another matter entirely, so he's very concerned.
I'm thinking of CCTV on the house so I can see when the kids are in and out, and can keep an eye on it when I'm away with work.
Show me where I said that SS. I said that folk dismissed the fact that he got into hash and weed to the exclusion of everything else,vos it was only a smoke.. but you knew that. Of course, that can be explained by saying he was a bam. You can't seen to get that you might not always be right. Which is strange because you weren't half digging TJ up about the same thing on the recent Indy thread.
Started smoking soap bar and within a year was a disaster; This is how he finished up.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/HATE+CAMPAIGN+LED+TO+BASEBALL+BAT+MURDER%3B+Life+for+killer+who…-a0136941343
/blockquote>Seems a fairly clear attempt at linking the 2 to me... If not, what other point were you making?
I deleted the bit in the middle as I've no scooby what you are on about there.
The key point which Jonesyboy has nailed is the root cause leading to higher risk behaviour from his son. I agree with you, the depression angle could be something they've concocted as a group excuse. I think helping him to find a peer group away from drugs would be the key. Spending time on the road with you won't solve the problem that he's young and needs acceptance from his equals. Does he have a GF?
Thinking back and being honest, once our close circle of friends got into drugs it just becomes normalised, similar with the steps up to more dangerous stuff. New people you spend time with also tend to be caners. I don't see modern drinking culture as much different tbh, perhaps society as a whole requires us to get trollied on a regular basis simply to cope?
I was linking the two. But right enough; he and the rest of the stories in this thread of people who ended up a mess;they are all obviously bams.
Anyway OP; Good luck,soft touch is the best way to go. School will also move friend groups in classes without having to know details if that helps, which could change the group he hangs about with.
He spent until 1:30am talking to his mum. He's intelligent and had a realistic rational answer for everything. He's really at rock bottom, frustrated that he has no freedom, WiFi, etc seven though we've explained he'll slowly get done of it back with good behaviour and less drug taking.
He's refusing to eat or drink, so I've asked his mum to be strong, he'll soon give up on that of there was a MC Donald's on the table.
He's refusing to see the counsellor, but we've not cancelled the appointment, I think he'll be ok when the counsellor rocks up at home.
School trip with Berlin needs to be canned, his dealer is on the same trip. So either we talk to school and tell them and the ban the dealer or we remove the boys from the trip.
Our daughter is now playing for attention so she's with me for a while.
Crazy how normalized ketamine and acid are, and how brazen the dealers are.
his dealer is on the same trip. So either we talk to school and tell them and the ban the dealer or we remove the boys from the trip.
The dealer is the crux of the problem, whilst he is at the same school you are going to struggle.
Of course if he is removed then someone else will replace him but the social tie will take time to reinstate, buying time to get the lad sorted
Explain to him that he cannot do driving lessons in the future and own a car if he is always trollied. All youngsters look forwards to getting a car. He can save the drug money to put towards lessons.
The way drug use is normalised in social groups is an important point, and in that regard the genie is out of the bottle now.
Perhaps the best you can expect is to help him realise that taking ket every day is a waste of his own time, and not exactly going to increase his chances of pulling, but if he still wants the odd spliff you might have to tolerate that?
FWIW I think a lot of people have a phase of experimenting with the proper mind-altering drugs but in the longer term will just take "party drugs", ie. MDMA or coke - but not every day obvs!
School trip with Berlin needs to be canned, his dealer is on the same trip.
Np way would I cancel a trip to Berlin, Junior now lives there. He's a techno DJ with all the exposure to the drug scene that involves. He was home recently and as candid as ever, and a lot less worrying that at 16-18. This is a public forum so without the detail, he's learned to be selective and so far as I can tell after ten days with us, no signs addiction to anything, not even drink.
I had a discussion with one of junior's friends on the street very late one night when junior was in the school user circle. People involveds in drugs don't want old blokes with absolutely no regard for their own safety around messing up their business and can sometimes be persuaded it might be best to avoid supplying some people. I was prepared to cope with the fall out and happily there wasn't any apart from junior being properly pissed off with me.
I knew I couldn't stop the experimentation and didn't even want to, I just wanted to keep junior on the margins rather than him becoming a major player. I won't deny it caused me significant grief, put significant stress on our couple and was one of least happy periods of my life, no, the least happy. Four years on it's none of my business anymore, no regrets about making it a little bit my business when it was.
So my advice is: if you do something don't make it a petty ineffective punishment, make it something that will make not just your son but all those around him think. Send him on the trip, negotiate on some of the other punishments. Berlin is ace, take him there. 😉
duckman
Subscriber
I was linking the two. But right enough; he and the rest of the stories in this thread of people who ended up a mess;they are all obviously bams.
In fairness caving someones head in with a baseball bat is a strong case for bammery.
Only point I'm really making tbh is that if taking drugs and if someone is on a downward spiral(cause you can take them and function perfectly fine, most do), the drugs are probably just symptomatic of other issues and are compounding them.
Seems to me a better approach than, oft you took a smoke, you are going to end up a destitute junkie.
It's kinda why "just say no" type campaigns don't work, cause they don't tie up with reality for the vast majority.
I spent most of Uni stoned. Started off as a lotnof silly fun, then went through the relatively cool phase of listening to lots of good tunes, learning guitar, socialising etc.
But by the end it had just become pointless habit and I'm embarrassed about how much of my twenties I effectively wasted by being, well, wasted.
Not sure how I'd broach the subject with my son, am thinking I would introduce him to lots of other positive experiences e.g. travel, sport, music etc (no idea how I would introduce him to girls though!) Then try to explain to him that being stoned all the time would mean missing out on all of the above.
Good quote above about weed making boredom fun.
If it helps though OP, I was a pretty pathetic stoner by the end and almost puffed away a university degree but scraped through, did a couple of enjoyable years in bike industry before moving into a proper career in engineering. Sounds like your son is bright, just explain to him how much more fun he'll have in his twenties if he stays off the strong stuff!