[Closed] "1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham"

I think you've selectively quoted one paragraph and then built your own version of the truth based on your own ideology.

The most politically incorrect institutions such as the Catholic church have managed to cover these things up for decades, it has everything to do with incompetence and corruption and nothing to do with "I woz to scared to say anything....cuz...racism....its not my fault....the lefties made me scared...I'm a victim as well". The latter is a cop out if you're not wanting to be accused of the former.

Bugger me, I'm in agreement with Jivehoney.

We will just have to wait until the official report, which as always will clear everything up, released no doubt on a badnewz day (sorry!).
Exit badnewz pursued by bear.

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

We will just have to wait until the official report, which as always will [s]clear[/s] [b]cover everything up[/b] in favour of the higher echelons of the establishment, released no doubt on a badnewz day (sorry!).

Oops my mistake, report is already out. The leader of the council has resigned but no-one else.
Well, I think we are at least in agreement that the whole thing stinks and the council must be pretty corrupt.

Does anyone honestly think it was just Rotherham, Oldham, the Catholic Church. It seems like there is some massive and systematic failure of social services ...

There does seem to be a general problem with targetted abuse of white youngsters by Asian Muslim men. Whether this is a cultural, racial or religious problem I don't know but until it is acknowledged it can't be addressed. If stating this makes me not PC then so be it.

I am a bit confused by this story however. Isn't it the responsibility of the police not the council to investigate these offences.

This is Political Correctness Gone Mad.

There you go, I've said it. The 'sensitivities' around identifying the race of the majority or the perpetrators will have led to missed opportunities to make connections, elevate the issue to the appropriate levels, and to have it stopped sooner.

If anyone can find a better example of wilfully ignoring a key truth in a series of serious crimes, I'd like to hear it.

PC created the conditions in which this could go on for as long as it did.

If you think otherwise you are deluding yourselves.

Political Correctness has its place. It is generally a good thing as it changes the tenor of prevailing attitudes for the better. It should not be a reason not to identify and report serious crime, however.

Dannyh nail on head there mate!

There you go, I've said it. The 'sensitivities' around identifying the race of the majority or the perpetrators will have led to missed opportunities to make connections, elevate the issue to the appropriate levels, and to have it stopped sooner.

And what connections would those be? It would only highlight the most basic connections and nothing extra that a list of names and associates would not. If you fail to act on child abuse cases because one can't see an overarching racial dimension to the abuse, that tells you a lot about the motivations of the police.

PC created the conditions in which this could go on for as long as it did.

Really? The police didn't investigate the issue because they were scared of being accused of racism?

You know, there's nothing in law that you could be prosecuted for, for something as simple as reporting a statistical matter such as race. The council would have known this, so there are other reasons for their failure.

Food for thought: if government can withhold inquiry into Iraq war, why has report into Rotherham abuse been released at this particular moment in time?

Within the Council, we found [b]no evidence[/b] of children’s
social care staff being influenced by concerns about the ethnic origins of suspected perpetrators when dealing with individual child protection cases, including CSE

A widespread perception that
messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE.......From a [b]political perspective[/b], the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged.

So it didn't effect the investigation, it just upset the public.

Instant dismissal,no if or buts they failed, they got paid to do a job and used policital correctness crap to cover up their failings.

A criominal is a crominal what ever their job, ethnic origin or colour

Precisely Project, the lot of them should lose their jobs. The PC stuff is a shite excuse.

The most politically incorrect institutions such as the Catholic church have managed to cover these things up for decades, it has everything to do with incompetence and corruption...

To be fair everyone seems to coverup child sex abuse - right across society, I have known families to do so, not because they weren't horrified to discover that it had happened but because it's one of those things that "it's best not to talk about". Better to pretend it never happened.

An appalling attitude but one which sadly is very prevalent.

On the question of political correctness I have always thought that political correctness, as it is presented to us, can be highly damaging, not least in the real struggle against real racism.

I have no idea if political correctness played a significant negative role in this particular case but I sadly wouldn't be surprised if it had.

Given the problems recruiting and retaining child protection workers at the moment, even before the next round of cuts comes in, prepare to be shocked for a few years to come.

Unless all of you internet experts want to change career and play the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" game with media reporting of child protection cases.

Impossible to justify or condone what has been reported in this case, but it's a damn sight easier from behind a screen with all the facts at your fingertips and a good dose of hindsight.

Edit: blimey, I'm agreeing with ernie again.

On the question of political correctness I have always thought that political correctness, as it is presented to us, can be highly damaging, not least in the real struggle against real racism.

That's absolutely 100% true. This plays into the hands of the 'other side' from the PC brigade.

The irritating thing is that we've become so wrapped up in hand-wringing that many people now cannot function as normal humane people without worrying about how they might be 'perceived'. Of course, it also makes a convenient reason not do anything and have a quiet life. But there you have it. A clear cut situation where a load of lofty ideals mutated into a situation where 'professionals' were discouraged (implicitly at least) to hush up serious crimes because they were worried about how they would be perceived.

You can't really wring your hands about this, it is there. It is stark. It is just plain wrong, and would be laughable apart from the context.

The social workers I know see some truly horrible things. I think it is fair to say that most of their cases are on problem estates, with problem families, which have been incentivised by 30 years of left-wing utopian thinking.
Mass immigration and political correctness are essential tools in the arsenal of your average cultural revolutionary and I think the extent of both the abuse and the cover-up are a damning indictment of the social and cultural revolution which your average STW'er likes to defend to the hilt on these forums.
It's nothing to do with spending cuts or too few social workers.

But there you have it. A clear cut situation where a load of lofty ideals mutated into a situation where 'professionals' were discouraged (implicitly at least) to hush up serious crimes because they were worried about how they would be perceived.

You're spinning a bit of a yarn aren't you? Do you want me to quote that investigation again?

It's nothing to do with spending cuts or too few social workers.

If the Tories truly had their way there would be no such thing as social services or a public police force.

Not to mention we're less tolerant of this sort of thing now because of left wing and feminist ideology that is opposed to the sexual exploitation of women and girls.

But yes, all the nonces are foreign and they're allowed to get away with it because of lefties.

30 years of left-wing utopian thinking.

LOL

I blame Thatcher !

Just read that "Rotherham council writing to bosses of those who turned a blind eye now working elsewhere".

I don't think anyone expects child services to be perfect (although they should aim to be).#

But to commission multiple reports and then ignore the inconvenient conclusions is disgraceful.

It's not making a bad decision in a single case it's systemically turning a blind eye to it as inconvenient or embarrassing.

I hope that which ever Police officers were on the child protection units dealing with these cases aren't given the option of walking away with a pension as so often seems to be the case. They were those kids last hope for the system to help them and they were ignored.

In 10, 20, 30, 40 and so on years time there's going to be a large number of very damaged adults who'll be, no doubt, let down by the system again.

The more I read and think about this the more angry I get.

The ONE thing these professionals are supposed to do above all others is keep children safe and they utterly failed 1400 times.

Worse, they [b]knew[/b] it was happening and didn't step in to stop it.

Bastards. Utter bastards.

LOL

I blame Thatcher !

I like how he thinks the left 'incentivised' young girls into being raped.

robdixon - Member
The terrible impact this will have had on the children is almost too hard to comprehend but personally, it doesn't come as a great surprise.
The thing driving a good deal of these offenses is a mindset that's far more established in the UK than many people think. As we've seen in Rotherham, Oldham, Bradford, Oxford and Bristol, one of the issues at play is that for many reasons, those in positions of responsibility do not feel able to publicly acknowledge the issue due to its inherent sensitivity - their reticence is reflected in the approach of MPs and to some extent the general public who don't want to be labelled as "racist" by discussing something that actually has no relation to race but does have some relation to geography and the culture.
My own experience is that through a number of reasonably close Muslim friends, colleagues and acquaintances I've heard the mindset of parts of the wider community i.e. their parents, childhood friends etc. The broader thinking aside from seeing children of other faith as somehow inferior as we've seen in this case also extends to:
- children born to muslim fathers and white women being the work of the devil i.e. it's not the father's "fault"
- white non muslim women being seen as prostitutes or conveniently treated as "brides for the night" so that the men don't bear any culpability for the relationship or even having to admit they were having a relationship with a non muslim (in some cases this is at considerable emotional cost to the men as they struggle to reconcile the expectations of parents and the community with the feelings they have for their partner)
- non muslim women basically being there to satisfy the sexual needs of muslim man on a temporary basis.
- non muslims being dirty and inferior - particularly those that are gay or jewish.
Clearly this thinking does not reflect all muslims but it does reflect the thinking of a significant number of those whose families originated from a handful of towns in ****stan and to a lesser extent Bangladesh - I've not met any Muslims that have moved to the UK from other parts of Asia who seem to hold views that are as potentially damaging to UK society and in the main they seem to be as revolted as everyone else as are the many community leaders who have spoken out in Mosques on the specific subject of child grooming.
It's also worth noting that the repugnant ideology laid out by ISIS in Syria and Iraq has at its core similar underlying principles with regard to non muslims and people in Europe / the west - and whilst we don't have daily beheadings and stonings in Britain this is perhaps an appropriate time to recognise that the belief system held by these people must be directly challenged at every opportunity in order to protect women and children in Britain in order to avoid any more child grooming, FGM, slavery and an increasing number of women being oppressed by men.
POSTED 2 HOURS AGO #

This + 1400

I think one of the most damning statements in the report is:

[i]Seminars for elected members and senior officers in 2004-05 presented the abuse in the most explicit terms. After these events, nobody could say 'we didn't know'. In 2005, the present Council Leader chaired a group to take forward the issues, but there is no record of its meetings or conclusions, apart from one minute.[/i]

If wilful neglect like that isn't grounds for a charge of misconduct in public office, then I don't know what is!

This + 1400

You know that the evidence points towards that they targeted Asian women as well and did not preferentially target white girls, it's just that the cultural attitudes within the Asian community have meant those girls have often not come forward.

social workers I know see some truly horrible things. I think it is fair to say that most of their cases are on problem estates, with problem families, which have been incentivised by 30 years of left-wing utopian thinking.

Thatcher, that grey fella and Blair make left wing utopia. **** me, quality

You know that the evidence points towards that they targeted Asian women as well and did not preferentially target white girls, it's just that the cultural attitudes within the Asian community have meant those girls have often not come forward.

It was my impression from the other cases in Oxford and Bradford etc. that they specifically targetted white girls for the reasons outlined by robdixon. I've not read the 159 page report by Rotherham council but if no Asian women came forward then where is the proof they were targetted.

But yes, all the nonces are foreign and they're allowed to get away with it because of lefties.

Errr, no.

You know that the evidence points towards that they targeted Asian women as well and did not preferentially target white girls, it's just that the cultural attitudes within the Asian community have meant those girls have often not come forward.

Irrelevant. They committed crimes. People in authority knew about. People in authority were cowed by not wanting to appear racist. As a result, the process of uncovering and stopping these crimes was hampered.

You have an agenda. You wish to push it with a few smoke and mirrors and trying to turn the argument on its head. Ten out of ten for effort, but in this case you are wrong. Plain, good 'old-fashioned' (I know that's very uncool as well) wrong.

Irrelevant. They committed crimes. People in authority knew about. People in authority were cowed by not wanting to appear racist. As a result, the process of uncovering and stopping these crimes was hampered.

You have an agenda. You wish to push it with a few smoke and mirrors and trying to turn the argument on its head. Ten out of ten for effort, but in this case you are wrong. Plain, good 'old-fashioned' (I know that's very uncool as well) wrong.

I dare you to get back to me with a reasoned argument as to why the report is wrong then.

It was my impression from the other cases in Oxford and Bradford etc. that they specifically targetted white girls for the reasons outlined by robdixon. I've not read the 159 page report by Rotherham council but if no Asian women came forward then where is the proof they were targetted.

I'm assuming shrinks/the police/social services quiz the ones that do report and find out how hard it was for them to self-report in the first place. That data will then be recorded and compared against other groups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-22731537

Here's a thought, what happens if you're a Councillor of said areas and kick up a big fuss about groups of Asian men raping and abusing young girls/women in these predominantly Asian/Muslim areas, your gonna take a serious nosedive come next elections, I don't think it's all about being PC, it's also about trying to save their own necks.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/10/abuse-asian-girls-missed-white-victims

Councils too focused on white victims, ergo, you can nonce but not if it's a white girl.

What is wrong is that this case shows how normal moral considerations (by any sane judgement) can be subverted by a desire not appear racist. It is explicitly stated within the report. I'm not sure how you can double-speak your way back out of it, but you seem to be having a good go at it.

I think you are a zealot, and as such there is no point in trying to reason it out further. It is plain as the nose on your face, but when dogma gets in the way of the bleeding obvious, then the situation is beyond hope I fear.

EDIT I'll read the report first

Dannyh, the only reason was PC gone mad lefty police chiefs and council leaders ?
It would be easy if reality was a simp!istic as that

These girls are from the shit end of society,the same people described as scum, chavs etc on the council house neigbours thread from yesterday

Their parents seem to have abandoned them or had them taken away, I believe most were in care, education and social services obviously hadn't done enough to protect them.
The police apparently had similar attitudes, untrustworthy, unreliable witnesses, not worth protecting, just chavs, skanks,slags, language you hear throughout society, scared of being called racist? I had no idea coppers are so delicate

And ultimately these mainly ****stani men viewed them even less as people and more as objects.

Tom, you could probably give a great argument that Kryptonite is the main ingredient in Fondant Fancies, it doesn't mean your right! 😉

What is wrong is that this case shows how normal moral considerations (by any sane judgement) can be subverted by a desire not appear racist. It is explicitly stated within the report. I'm not sure how you can double-speak your way back out of it, but you seem to be having a good go at it.

So what is it then, moral considerations and politics etc or the actual hard investigation that was affected.

You have yet to get back to me as to how the actual investigations over a decade were affected in a major way by political correctness. In the meantime, crimes against Asian girls are not being given due attention partly because of le shock horror.....racism.

So I'm going to do a badnewzday here and say all Tories are complicit in the abuse of ethnic minority girls by encouraging racism.

Tom, you could probably give a great argument that Kryptonite is the main ingredient in Fondant Fancies, it doesn't mean your right!

Perhaps I missed my calling in life and should befriend Peter Mandelson.

In two of the cases we read, fathers tracked down their daughters and tried to remove them from houses where they were being abused, only to be arrested themselves when police were called to the scene. In a small number of cases (which have already received media attention) the victims were arrested for offences such as breach of the peace or being drunk and disorderly, with no action taken against the perpetrators of rape and sexual assault against children.

From the actual report. I've always said police are part of the problem.

It's largely pointless arguing with enlightened souls like Tom, I'm afraid he is the successful product of years indoctrination of state education and media exposure to liberal ideas. He knows what to think, not how to think, and won't change his mind. No point arguing really. Night all.
Exit badnewz pursued by bear.

😀

Jeez, even by our own weird standards this thread has brought out some nutters on both sides 🙄

Child A (2000)6 was 12 when the risk of sexual exploitation became known. She was associating with a group of older Asian men and possibly taking drugs. She disclosed having had intercourse with 5 adults. Two of the adults received police cautions after admitting to the Police that they had intercourse with Child A.

Police caution for child abuse, yet poor Jules Assange has had police camped outside of the Ecuadorian embassy for 2 years and he hasn't even been charged with anything, let alone in this country.

[i]I'll bet my house it wasn't the cops working in those units that let these kids down. By all means slate the politicians at the top, or even the police as a whole if you must, but the ones at the coal face in those units generally work their bollocks off and are very committed to what they do. [/i]

One of my sister's ran a child protection unit for a few years when she was a DS. I understand the work they do and how committed they are.

There have been a number of instances reported recently within units dealing with rape cases where a culture of, errm, meeting targets developed and the victims were either ignored, disbeleived or cases were marked as needign no further investigation. This was right down tot he ground, not just at a senior level.

I don't know which individual officers (and there must have been an awful lot involved over the period of time in question as they get rotated out fairly regularly) have done a poor job in these 1400 cases but a 'culture' of disbelieving reports sounds like it wasn't only senior managers who were preventing investigation.

You're right about the rape unit - Sapphire was it, in the Met?

I edited my post anyway, it was based only on what I've seen, not on whatever has gone on in this force, so it's irrelevant.

Dannyh, the only reason was PC gone mad lefty police chiefs and council leaders ?
It would be easy if reality was a simp!istic as that

These girls are from the shit end of society,the same people described as scum, chavs etc on the council house neigbours thread from yesterday

Their parents seem to have abandoned them or had them taken away, I believe most were in care, education and social services obviously hadn't done enough to protect them.
The police apparently had similar attitudes, untrustworthy, unreliable witnesses, not worth protecting, just chavs, skanks,slags, language you hear throughout society, scared of being called racist? I had no idea coppers are so delicate

And ultimately these mainly ****stani men viewed them even less as people and more as objects.

Kimbers, from past experience you seem to be a functioning person with a mind of their own, so I'll try to get my point across to you at least.

I never said the perceived threat of being labelled racist due to 'PC gone mad' was the [u]only[/u] reason.

The social circumstances of a lot of the victims and society's prejudiced (bitter irony here) attitudes towards them was a massive factor. Dare I say it, a bigger factor than the 'PC' issue. I would not deny that. If the victims had been from a more affluent background (irrespective of race), I doubt the lid would have been kept on for so long.

I haven't dismissed other factors at all.

I just cannot stand people turning arguments inside out to justify their own hang-ups and agendas [u]whatever[/u] the context. That is dogma and zealotry, and it should be exposed to the ridicule it deserves.

Failures by those charged with protecting children happened despite three reports between 2002 and 2006 which both the council and police were aware of, and [b]"which could not have been clearer in the description of the situation in Rotherham"[/b].

...the first of these reports was "effectively suppressed" because senior officers did not believe the data. The other two were ignored...The report revealed some people at a senior level in the police and children's social care thought the extent of the problem was being "exaggerated".

Prof Jay said: "The authorities involved have a great deal to answer for."

The responsible authorities failed to do their job properly and did not take the reports seriously. The BBC report does not suggest this was because of "political correctness".