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To anyone following active travel or environmental policy developments in the UK, the news that the government is preparing to announce a 'Plan For Th ...
By stwhannah
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I hope to god that their current environmental/transport policies, along with their racist immigration and multiculturalism rhetoric, are their desperate last death throes.
It's not surprising - things have been headed this way since the Uxbridge By-election. The Conservatives seem to have once again pivoted to the lowest common denominator rather than trying to raise it, simply because it might allow them to retain some semblence of power/vote share.
are their desperate last death throes
once again pivoted to the lowest common denominator
This & this. Utterly spineless, desperate politics aimed at nothing else other than retaining their (weakened) power.
Come the revolution...
Looks like they are basing their policies on the daily mail comments section.
We* are going to be thrown all sorts of "nice" things by this current lot in order to try and save their hides. My bet is on a couple of tax cuts in the next few months as they go through their death throes.
* By we, I mean us nice upper middle class folk and up. If you decided to be poor or decided not to have white skin then you're going to get shafted obvs.
They probably haven’t got time to get legislation through before they’re booted out of office though, and everything seems to be pointing towards a May GE.
As has been pointed out this isn’t a great electoral strategy as the kind of people who think LTNs are a conspiracy are also unlikely to have the necessary ID to vote…
I’m quite happy for more hep for the motorist. Without my car I can’t get to the office on the days I actually goin. I cannot ride my bike anywhere I would actually want to. There is no way I am using public transport to go anywhere as it’s awful. The only exception is to London as that is less awful on the train than the car in the centre even though my car is ulez compliant
My bet is on a couple of tax cuts in the next few months as they go through their death throes.
I wouldn't bet on it myself
I’m quite happy for more help for the motorist.
We won't be getting any.
They are just talking about overruling local decision making when it comes to road usage... but leaving in place local responsibilities to sort out the effects of road usage.
Odd article. The government is releasing a plan next week of which you have no details other than the title. While I agree that it's unlikely to be great news for the environment, wouldn't it be better to save the outrage until we know the details and can form a coherent response?
Talk to the "CEOs of Bikeability Trust, British Cycling, Cycling UK, Living Streets, Ramblers and Sustrans."
Floating policies early is the government's way of preparing the media and public for them with reduced push back from others. Organisations have got wise to this technique and try and get their points into the media alongside the governments' own spin before it all becomes settled and old news for the media and it's too late to be heard.
I hate the fact that my in-laws will be loving this news. I cannot believe* that they are doing these about-turns on policies left, right and centre.
*Well I can. I just wish it was unbelievable.
They probably haven’t got time to get legislation through before they’re booted out of office though, and everything seems to be pointing towards a May GE.
As has been pointed out this isn’t a great electoral strategy as the kind of people who think LTNs are a conspiracy are also unlikely to have the necessary ID to vote…
I agree.
But the problem it the announcements and messaging gives succour to the outdated views and policies being suggested. It increases the self-importance of many drivers, and degrades the rights AND encouragement to build a different future for ourselves.
Well as long as you're ok.
A 😠
It’s not surprising – things have been headed this way since the Uxbridge By-election.
Its a weird thing to base your entire electoral strategy on though. They held on to Uxbridge, somewhere they have always had a huge majority, by the skin of their teeth. Its a hardly a ringing endorsement from the electorate, is it?
This whole thing just reeks of total desperation and trying to shore up their core vote of reactionary old giffers
Having said that, I'm just off out to ride into Bury, via this, which happens to make perfect sense when you ride through it on a bike. However, when the council putting this in last year it sent the national right wing press into a complete meltdown 🤷♂️
"about-turns on policies left, right and centre."
Mostly right.
I heard some news about us currently paying the highest taxes ever. I expect this is just seeding the ground for some of the tax cuts mentioned above.
Its a weird thing to base your entire electoral strategy on though. They held on to Uxbridge, somewhere they have always had a huge majority, by the skin of their teeth. Its a hardly a ringing endorsement from the electorate, is it?
Well, yes. But this is from the same group of people that destroyed a country to get rid of a Political Party that was a threat to their vote share, so not exactly unprecedented in terms of near term thinking. They need something and It's not like they can run on their record now, is it?
Two years ago I wrote to my MP in support of active travel policies and received an enthusiastic reply. He told me he was a huge fan of active travel and how proud he was his government had pledged £3bn in funding, how it would improve the quality of our lives and encourage us to give up those polluting motor cars.
That man is Richard Holden. Since he became a Junior Transport Minister he’s overseen a 1bn cut in the active travel budget and when I wrote to point out the discrepancy fobbed me off with a standard response from the DfT.
presumably from today he now believes active travel is a lefty, wokeist conspiracy to force us all to give up being British.
Every town and city has a problem with congestion and pollution. And Rishi Sunak's answer is to let more people stop in box junctions?
Conservatives are out of ideas and out of touch. Even they know it.
I’m quite happy for more hep for the motorist. Without my car I can’t get to the office on the days I actually goin. I cannot ride my bike anywhere I would actually want to. There is no way I am using public transport to go anywhere as it’s awful. The only exception is to London as that is less awful on the train than the car in the centre even though my car is ulez compliant
What as a motorist do you feel you need helping out with? There is a huge amount spent on "the motorist" and not alot spent on anyone else, which presumably is why you feel there is no option for you other than to take your car to the office. It even seems that proven ideas to make our towns safer for all isn't going to upset the motorist too much.
Without my car I can’t get to the office on the days I actually goin. I cannot ride my bike anywhere I would actually want to. There is no way I am using public transport to go anywhere as it’s awful.
Those are exactly the problems we want to solve, and those are the problems Sunak wants to prevent people solving.
As a Sustrans Volunteer I'm helping with our local Active Travel event tomorrow, wondering if it's just peeing into the wind 😔
For all Boris's many (Many, many many) faults I do think that he actual believed in climate change and active travel and he was seen as enough of an electoral asset by his party that he was allowed to carry those views into No.10 without having his rank and file party members up in arms.
Now Sunak's clutching at straws it's no surprise he's ditched these policies at the first opportunity. The party faithful never liked them and the voters most likely to approve of them aren't going to vote for him anyway.
So what’s in the Plan? That was a whole lot of scrolling without any information.
”Down with whatever they say next!”
I’m quite happy for more hep for the motorist. Without my car I can’t get to the office on the days I actually goin. I cannot ride my bike anywhere I would actually want to. There is no way I am using public transport to go anywhere as it’s awful. The only exception is to London as that is less awful on the train than the car in the centre even though my car is ulez compliant
I'm all right jack sod you, sod the health of everyone else, sod the poor who don't own cars. Me me me me
Cars are subsidised from general taxation hugely. You already get loads of help by not paying the full costs.
”Down with whatever they say next!”
Yeah, up with raising speed limits! In fact, let's just abolish them and make it easier for the police to ignore speeding.
It'll be announced on Monday, at the Tory sleazefest conference in Manchester.
I’m all right jack sod you, sod the health of everyone else, sod the poor who don’t own cars. Me me me me
I presume are holier than the rest of us. Do nothing that’s bad for the environment. The reality is that cars are the most convenient and realistic way of getting around for the foreseeable future
I have never owned a car. I do my best to live a low impact lifestyle for a westerner. Its still nowhere near good enough of course.
Cars are still incredibly convenient at 20 mph in built-up areas.
The reality is that cars are the most convenient and realistic way of getting around for the foreseeable future
I own two cars but I know plenty of people who have zero cars and no intention of getting one and seem to do just fine, including one of my grown up children.
Yes it makes some things more annoying but when I think about the thousands of pounds of rapidly deoreciating metal and plastic standing idle outside my house right now it makes me wonder what I was thinking of.
Cars are at their most convenient when not so many other people are in cars because they don’t have to be.
The reality is that cars are the most convenient and realistic way of getting around for the foreseeable future
Just because they are the most convenient for you, doesn't mean that active travel policies and funding will not benefit others. Loads of people round my area queue along a busy coastal road every rush hour despite there being 15 minutes buses, many just need a bit of a nudge to get on their bike or car.
Highways have just completed a 16km segregated cycle lane near me that is very popular with cyclists despite all the vocal drivers on social media claiming no one will ever use it. They want the road turned into a dual carriageway. A fag packet calculation suggests the budget for the cycle lane would have built just a few hundred metres of dual carriageway. It just shows how cancelling one big road scheme could fund segregated cycle lanes along many of our trunk roads...I still don't have any safe 'road' options to travel north or east despite living in the south-east near the South Downs.
Imagine if they hadn't done smart motorways and instead put segregated cycle lanes down every A road. We'd have a world class leading cycle network by now
I’m quite happy for more hep for the motorist. Without my car I can’t get to the office on the days I actually goin. I cannot ride my bike anywhere I would actually want to.
How far is the office from your house and how often do you travel?
Would having say 70% of your potential cycle commute on dedicated cycle paths actually convince you to ride?
…or is it all too difficult and do you just want it cheap and easy?
do you just want it cheap and easy?
I do. However I also support 20mph speed limits and other controls to improve getting around for drivers and non drivers. It is still cheap and easy to drive around even with the above.
Outside the big cities public transport is a joke, a lad I work with uses the bus to Malvern from Worcester, the last bus was 10pm ish, nowadays it's 6.18 Monday to Saturday, and doesn't run on a Sunday.
Yeah, up with raising speed limits! In fact, let’s just abolish them and make it easier for the police to ignore speeding.
Is that what’s coming? If so, then fair enough, but where did you find the information?
I was in Wales this week and the new 20mph speed limits felt much more appropriate in villages.
Bus services are easy to fix with a little government support. We were able to order a flecsibus minibus in Wales on holiday, it turned up exactly where we wanted picking up, and dropped us off at our campsite. And, it was free!
They've now introduced flexibus in Sussex, I don't know if it's free but now you can request a pick up in the back of knowhere and it'll connect you to another bus service/train or take you in to town. Don't know if it's free.
So a combination of funding timetabled routes and on demand minibus's can make public transport much more viable. Stating how rubbish the bus is just reinforces the arguement that the government is wrong to abandon these policies in favour of votes from a minority of very vocal car drivers
How far is the office from your house and how often do you travel?
Would having say 70% of your potential cycle commute on dedicated cycle paths actually convince you to ride?
…or is it all too difficult and do you just want it cheap and easy?
I only go once a week. It’s 30 miles each way mostly on the motorway .
of course I want cheap and easy. Why wouldn’t I. Who wants expensive and difficult. It’s 40 minutes in the car to the office . It would take 2 hours by bike. There is no way I am getting up 2 hours earlier to ride there and get clean. There isn’t a shower at the office either.
I Royal Caribbean have just announced they are building the world’s biggest cruise ship yet. I bet that one ship is going to do more environmental harm in just its construction phase than everyone on this forum does in their lifetime. All this small scale green washing is just a complete farce so yet I do want cheap and easy until there is real global action
of course I want cheap and easy. Why wouldn’t I. Who wants expensive and difficult. I see that Royal Caribbean have just announced they are building the world’s biggest cruise ship yet. I bet that one ship is going to do more environmental harm in just its construction phase than everyone on this forum does in their lifetime. All this small scale green washing is just a complete farce so yet I do want cheap and easy until there is real global action
Fine piece of whataboutism there.
I bet that one ship is going to do more environmental harm in just its construction phase than everyone on this forum does in their lifetime. All this small scale green washing is just a complete farce so yet I do want cheap and easy until there is real global action
Great I was looking for an opportunity to completely absolve myself of personal responsibility and here it is! Thanks!
I was cycling home yesterday afternoon. After cycling up the hill of doom where you get loads of car agression and close passing, cycling past the bridge and trees which had been destroyed by some vehicle leaving the road, stopping to let some cars past. Being subjected to a full display of how to be a complete dick by a Maseratti owner. I got to the next set of lights about 3 miles futher on and cycled past the entire line of vehicles who thought it vital to be in front of me.
Cars need to calm down and cooperate because current behaviour just winds up the drivers until they be have badly.
They need to watch the Zenn driving thing someone posted recently.
of course I want cheap and easy. Why wouldn’t I. Who wants expensive and difficult. I see that Royal Caribbean have just announced they are building the world’s biggest cruise ship yet. I bet that one ship is going to do more environmental harm in just its construction phase than everyone on this forum does in their lifetime. All this small scale green washing is just a complete farce so yet I do want cheap and easy until there is real global action
Fine piece of whataboutism there.
Not really. This is a problem that can only be fixed globally. As long as things like this carry on there is nothing any individual or even a nation can do to fix the problem. Why should I compromise my lifestlye when companies are building ships for others to make the most of what they want to do. I fully accept this is completely defeatist but IMHO thats where we are at as a country and a civilisation.
Why should I compromise my lifestlye
Why should you drive a bit slower, for example? Is that really a difficult concept, on a cycling forum of all places.
Benefit of 20mph - no need to get wound up about overtaking roadies. Still had the white van from Richard Small Energy ltd. overtake the lot of us though.
Why should I compromise my lifestlye
I take it you live off-grid with no kids as a "sovereign citizen" in a libertarian paradise then?
Why should I compromise my lifestlye
This is basically “why should I share?” but in grown up words.
”Down with whatever they say next!”
Well, they've hoofed me in the slats 23 times in a row, but maybe this time he's pulling back his right leg for a different reason...
I’ve posted this in a similar thread on here but it’s relevant to both.
There’s an article in the Guardian today about parents campaigning for safer streets. There’s some demonstrations today in various places, part of a campaign called “safe streets now”. “Brake” is another campaign group worth looking up, formed after the unnecessary death of a woman caused by a lorry going too fast with faulty brakes. I was in charge of first attendance at the scene of that “accident”. Perhaps if graphic images of the death and injuries on our roads were in the papers more instead of sanitised photos from a distance then it might help? Cigarette packets have graphic pictures on them, why not pictures to accompany vehicle adverts?
Anyway, on a positive note, I’ve re-joined Cycling UK and I’m re-joining the local campaign group. Also, going to batter my MP toady Rowley with letters.
North East Derbyshire District Council are introducing Public Place Protection orders as part of an interesting campaign against speeding, dangerous driving and nuisance driving.
Campaigning might help, anything to stop the average of five deaths a day on our roads?
I'm expecting some sweateners for pensioners as well coming up to the election. Desperate.com
Perhaps if graphic images of the death and injuries on our roads were in the papers more instead of sanitised photos from a distance then it might help?
This. The sanitisation of the reality absolutely breeds ambivalence in people.
Also put body cams on first responders. If NOK give their blessing get it out there.
It’s 30 miles each way mostly on the motorway .
Things not on many Motorways… 20mph zones, full time bus lanes etc. Sunak isn’t offering anything to you… or any driver… other than to put the brakes on the modernisation of city and town streets designed to keep people (including those of us in cars) moving… which will make some people feel he is on “their side” while doing bugger all to actually help them on their drives in anyway whatsoever.
It’s all signalling, no manoeuvres.
But then that’s all he has the time left to do.
Its thoroughly depressing coming back from Europe and using British public transport.
Spent a week nipping between France and Switzerland, part side hustle, part break. Only required a motor vehicle once to get to an isolated property.
Trains, trams and buses just seem to work there.
That’s because they view public transport as a public utility and spend 2.5x as much per head on it as we do outside London.
The notion that public transport needs to cover its own costs is hugely economically damaging, and results in the kind of car dependence we have.
Is that really a difficult concept, on a cycling forum of all places.
This a mountain bike forum not a roadie forum. I ride my mtb off road not on road as that’s the whole point. If I want to ride on the road I would buy a road bike
lorry going too fast with faulty brakes.
So the real problem was faulty brakes resulting in an inability to stop. Driving with faulty brakes should carry severe punishment
@chrismac I use my mountain bike on the road to get to trails and link bridleways. The roads over the tops I use are 60mph limits and only just wide enough for two vehicles. This limit appears to be the target for a lot of vehicles. The example I gave of the lorry fatality was because it was the catalyst for the formation of “Brake”. I could give you hundreds of graphic examples from North East Derbyshire and the Peak District where excessive speed has been the major cause of serious and tragic “accidents”. Speed limits need reducing on most roads, and I include motorways in that, along with proper enforcement and consequences for breaking them.
I've been getting gradually more pro-Active Travel and decided to volunteer for a local 'Bairns on Bikes' scheme, meaning I had to do a Cycling UK ride leader course the other day. The course was pretty good but it has pretty much radicalised me. The amount of paperwork and planning needed just to take some kids to a park to play is, quite frankly, something we should be ashamed of as a society.
So anyone having a moan about how hard it is to be a motorist, please kindly ram it all the way up your hoop until it pops out and then ram it right up there again.
This a mountain bike forum not a roadie forum. I ride my mtb off road not on road as that’s the whole point. If I want to ride on the road I would buy a road bike.
Right you are, we should all be exactly like you. I'll cancel my subscription and get a roadietrackworld one henceforth. Can't have me on the road on my mountain bike, getting to the trails from my front door. You might be (t)rolling along in your car at 30mph.
Right you are, we should all be exactly like you. I’ll cancel my subscription and get a roadietrackworld one henceforth. Can’t have me on the road on my mountain bike, getting to the trails from my front door. You might be (t)rolling along in your car at 30mph.
Not at all. Just because people have a different opinion to yours or mine is what makes the world go round. I just thought the point of a mountain biking forum was to discuss mountain biking not road riding. I too have to use some bits of road but don’t seem to have the issues others seem to have on a daily basis. Perhaps the parts of the Peak District I ride in are graced with considerate road uses on using all forms of transportation
This a mountain bike forum
Are you absolutely sure about that?
My PCP for my car ended last year, and since then I've been without a car for most of the time - occasionally borrowing one. However, I would class myself as a petrolhead, (and motorsport fan) but I had to laugh when I saw a You Tube video about Rishi ending the war on the motorist. There isn't, or wasn't really a war on the motorist - nearly all transport policy is massively in favour of the motorist.....
This is even more in favour of the motorist, and active travel will suffer. We need less cars/lorries on the roads and more active travel, I don't know why people can get this into their heads. Building more roads isn't the answer....
Building more roads isn’t the answer….
But we do need more gravel roads to ride our Gravel Bikes on
. There isn’t, or wasn’t really a war on the motorist – nearly all transport policy is massively in favour of the motorist…..
This X a really big number.
If there truly was a war on motorists there'd be some enforcement of the widespread utterly shonky driving that I see every day including a lot of extra speed and red light cameras.
We fundamentally need a war on the motorist not necessarily in taxing them but in hammering dangerous, careless and downright incompetent driver behaviours.
- Phone use
- Drink and drugs
- Speeding
- Red light offences
- Close passing
- Road rage
- Unsafe and uninsured vehicles
- Lack of lane discipline
- Illegal tints
- Stupid and antisocial modifications
- Antisocial driving
- Disrupting police operations through sharing of enforcement operations through social media
Tackling that lot at scale would be a war (maybe a crusade?) on motorists and that's long overdue.
Until Covid I drove about 20,000 miles a year and at my peak in the mid 00's my mileage was 35,000pa and I'd still have supported every last one of those.
I would add to your list antisocial parking. As the default parking behaviour is either partly or completely on the pavement or verge.
I can theoretically be prosecuted for cycling on the pavement but you can park your car their.
Is driving on the pavement not illegal?
Near where I live the pavement is half bike lane and half pavement.
If cars are parked in the bike lane (which is apparently legal) I have to commit an offence to pass it.
It's time to reclaim the built environment from cars.
It’s time to reclaim the built environment from cars.
👍
Disrupting police operations through sharing of enforcement operations through social media<br /><br />
This is shared by the police in the first place. <br /><br />Secondly they are rarely carried out by police officers. They are usually staffed by civilians in police marked vehicles which in itself is technically illegal as they are impersonating a police officer which is a crime. Where I live they also have a habit of parking in the most stupid of places blocking pavements and obcuring lines of sight for road users
@chrismac If both of your statements are true then you need to report them - let us know how you get on!
Until Covid I drove about 20,000 miles a year and at my peak in the mid 00’s my mileage was 35,000pa and I’d still have supported every last one of those.
Same here, drive many miles a year, both personal and for work, and would support all of that being enforced. It'll never happen though as it's politically poisonous to do so.
Near where I live the pavement is half bike lane and half pavement.
If cars are parked in the bike lane (which is apparently legal) I have to commit an offence to pass it.
There is a road in Llanrumney in Cardiff that had lovely large cycle lanes painted on the tarmac, perfect for the local school etc. Every resident just uses it as a parking lane instead with no enforcement whatsoever. https://maps.app.goo.gl/xsqnb2ptGCyjr9yc 9">This was the street view in the middle of the day, during the evenings it's completely full of parked cars.
They are usually staffed by civilians in police marked vehicles which in itself is technically illegal as they are impersonating a police officer which is a crime.
Sorry but that sounds like “sovereign citizen”esque made up quasi-legal bollocks.
Bruce
Full MemberThere are a significant number of the carcentric on here. See Top gear threads, what car for spirited driving.
I'm carcentric- daily driver is a big fast estate, I'm doing an engine swap in an MX5 which I'll take to trackdays etc. But I live in a 20mph limit and it's great, it'd be idiocy to change it back. I use the bus for every trip into the city because it's convenient and better. I want better buses, more active travel, more cycle lanes, support 20 limits. I don't do any of the <fun> stuff in my cars in towns after all, it makes no difference at all to the average petrolhead.
Truth is the weight of public opinion can't be about car lovers, because there's really not that many of us. It's mostly about misinformation and pandering, at this point.
Sorry but that sounds like “sovereign citizen”esque made up quasi-legal bollocks.
I suggest you dress up like a policeman and park up in a van that looks like is a police vehicle and see what happens
So far any attempt to use this defence in court has resulted in the prosecution withdrawing the case.
Impersonating a police officer is a breach of Section 90 of the Police Act To quote
“Any person who with intent to deceive impersonates a member of a police force or special constable, or makes any statement or does any act calculated falsely to suggest that he is such a member or constable, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction”
Sitting in a van liveried as a police vehicle, in a uniform designed to look like a police officers should be a pretty clear breach of the act
Is driving on the pavement not illegal?
It's an odd one for sure. To get the car on to it then you're driving on it, but it seems that people, and the authorities, just accept it.
I was somewhere yesterday where it seemed normal to park a vehicle wholly on the pavement outside a house, not even two wheels on/two wheels off, with zero room for pedestrians or anyone needing more space.
Yet like you say, at best it's often breaking the law to ride on the pavement, or cyclists are portrayed as sub-human for using them.
Yesterday during rush hour (to be fair the vehicle drivers weren't rushing anywhere, due to too many cars on the road), I witnessed a woman park most of her car on the pavement the other bit was on the double yellow lines. In making this manoeuvre she managed to prevent a pedestrian already on that bit of pavement from continuing, she got honked at by two drivers and best of all, she managed to park bang opposite the 'parking enforcement officer (whom I was standing next to). She opens the door, steps out of the car and shouts across to me 'oh, shouldn't I be parking here', to which I point at the 'parking enforcement officer's small white vehicle and reply as nicely as I can - NO. On seeing this this quickly gets in her car and moves on.