[Closed] You don't pay road tax!

Emissions are proportional to fuel burnt, maybe not directly, but pretty damn close.

So how do you encourage manufacturers to develop new engines which [i]do[/i] burn cleaner, if there is no reward in it for them or their customers (other than a slight smug feeling)?

Fuel efficiency is the reward.

I had a woman just last night shout that very thing at us as we climbed up towards Pensitone from Langsett. She sat behind us for about 8-10 seconds as we wound up the climb of blind corners with her parping her horn at us a couple of times for not removing ourselves from the road and for stopping her from getting home for her egg and chips.

As she passed, window down and bellows of "you don't pay road tax, I do!!"
After formuating a well thought argument I retorted with the snappy comeback of "f@@k off".

She got the message and now understands the merits of an emission based system for road using vehicles.

I can't see anything, the link no longer works

This has been kicked around before, I very much doubt it will happen, ie replace VED with upfront tax. What is perhaps more likely is a combination of both, ie more tax revenue overall but dressed up as being "environmentally sound".

Massively increasing tax on "gas guzzling" cars will hurt the luxury car industry and put at risk UK jobs, it will also fire up retaliation from foreign governments who will target taxes on UK businesses in retaliation. A huge mess.

We used to have 10% tax on all new cars (in addition to VAT) and it was abolished as it depressed demand for cars and was thus bad for tax revenues and jobs.

They Can't charge road tax on cycles because they Don't own them! They (DVLA) can only charge a tax on vehicles they own, you are only the registered keeper of your vehicle! Our cycles are Owned by us 🙂

Fuel efficiency is the reward.

Okay maybe my crusty banger was the wrong example:

Would you rather have engine A that does 60mpg and produces 80g/km of CO2, or engine B which does the say mpg but burns "dirtier" and produces 150g/km?

You need to tax in a way that encourages engine A.
Fuel tax doesn't do that. Vehicle Tax does, a bit.

car fuel taxes are a dead end. Petrol sales are going down so tax not sure about tax take. Miles driven are going down because fuel is costing more. Move to an electric transport fleet and the need for petrol and diesel collapses.

At some point you end up with the one man driving one mile in a petrol car and paying millions in tax to do so.

The future is road pricing and black boxes whether you like it or not, now how do you fit a black box to a bike?

The future is road pricing and black boxes whether you like it or not, now how do you fit a black box to a bike?

When motorists start paying by road use then they really will have a case against bikes. 😕

The future is road pricing and black boxes whether you like it or not, now how do you fit a black box to a bike?

Road pricing is really the only sensible answer. Cut VED massively (if not abolish it altogether). Cut the price of fuel. Then have road pricing - the technology already exists in applications such as Congestion Charging or you can phase it in in terms of all new cars having "black boxes" and run a twin tier system so that older cars pay VED and newer cars run on the road pricing system.

Lower insurance premiums for less driving (cos you're less of a risk). Road pricing by time of day, distance, type of road and maybe type of car. So driving 2 miles at rush hour in a city in a massive 4x4 costs a bloody fortune. Driving 200 rural/trunk road miles at night in an economical car costs peanuts. Fairly simple matrix to calculate all of that.

ALL the money raised from road pricing goes back into the road network and public transport.

Okay maybe my crusty banger was the wrong example:

Would you rather have engine A that does 60mpg and produces 80g/km of CO2, or engine B which does the say mpg but burns "dirtier" and produces 150g/km?

[b]You need to tax in a way that encourages engine A.[/b]
Fuel tax doesn't do that. Vehicle Tax does, a bit.

I disagree (with my emboldened bit).

I drive my weekend bit of fun (engine B if you like), but commute by bike during the week.
I do few miles a year (in the car) and produce X amount of pollution.

My neighbour drives his engine A car everywhere, producing 2X amount of pollution.

Why should we incourage the neighbour?

ETA: your example still isn't realistic, cars aren't efficient or inefficient enough to give that great a disparity between CO2 and mpg.

@edlong - it was not so much the little disc, as you say ANPR can gather all the facts a plod needs so I guess a disc is almost redundant other than to allow the old g1t down the lane a reason to knock on my door pointing out that my sorned Karmann Ghia is not taxed and he's going to report me. Bless.

I'm all for Black boxes that issue on the spot fines for speeding and tax you per mile

Like duty on fuel, except that fuel duty is progressive: taxing more for inefficient cars. And doesn't require "black boxes" which can be fiddled and cost tonnes of tax £££ to implement.

Scrap VED, forget black boxes and tolls and simply increase duty on fuel. It will be cheaper for us.

I have a mate who skates all over and uses the road, and he gets loads of abuse of motorists and the common theme is no road tax too

To be fair to all the normal people out there, the government were still referring to VED as "road tax" as little as two years ago.

Would you rather have engine A that does 60mpg and produces 80g/km of CO2, or engine B which does the say mpg but burns "dirtier" and produces 150g/km?

I don't think that's possible. The carbon in the fuel has to go somewhere and is mostly emitted as CO2. (probably some CO as well). I would have thought mpg is inversely proportional to CO2 g/km. As my Mrs has just opened a bottle of red someone else can do the research....hic!

geordiemick00 - Member
I have a mate who skates all over and uses the road, and he gets loads of abuse of motorists and the common theme is no road tax too

TBF skaters are a nightmare because they take up so much of the road.

[b] Especially for Carlton Reid [/b]

Yes, we do know about http://ipayroadtax.com/ and yes you are [i]"generalising terribly[/i]". 😛

(see https://twitter.com/carltonreid/status/253802398089359360 )

To be fair to all the normal people out there, the government were still referring to VED as "road tax" as little as two years ago.

Of course, and most normal people do as well. It’s a colloquialism, rather like alcohol tax and tobacco tax. And guess what; none of those taxes get spent exclusively on roads, alcohol or tobacco.

And for those that think road tax is all about emissions, please explain why two identical cars, with identical emissions, don’t pay identical road tax if one is used only in closed course competitions (no requirement for road tax)? It’s called road tax, because it IS a tax we pay to use the roads.

It’s a very silly argument; even sillier to have a whole website to explain why it most certainly isn’t road tax! I can only guess the author either has issues spotting the blatantly obvious, or is a few months short of a 12 month tax disc.

When cyclists have a motorist shout 'You don't pay road tax', the correct response is one of the following:

'I'm not required to by law, bye'

'I know, good isn't it?'

'I do, I buy some for my imaginary car car to appease uneducated tabloid reading knuckle dragging motorists like you'

'Do I look like I care?'

They Can't charge road tax on cycles because they Don't own them! They (DVLA) can only charge a tax on vehicles they own, you are only the registered keeper of your vehicle! Our cycles are Owned by us

Facepalm

Lawmanmx - I am the registered keeper of our vehicle. My girlfriend and I are joint owners of the vehicle. I am not leasing it from the DVLA.

Davesmate/slob spot on!

If you use lots of fuel, you have a gas guzzler and/or you do lots of miles. Therefore emissions are high.

Therefore tax on fuel is fairer. My T5 can easily do 40+mpg but gets taxed in band K!!

But someone who drives an old Defender doing 22mpg can be in several bands down? Fair? Environmentally friendly? I think not! (Before someone lectures me on how long a defender lasts vs a Commercial van, it's a non argument as the VW has a higher duty life)

When cyclists have a motorist shout 'You don't pay road tax', the correct response is one of the following:

'I'm not required to by law, bye'

'I know, good isn't it?'

'I do, I buy some for my imaginary car car to appease uneducated tabloid reading knuckle dragging motorists like you'

'Do I look like I care?'

I like "I also don't pay for sex
<if time, pause to look closely at driver>
Looks like I'm two for two on you!"

When cyclists have a motorist shout 'You don't pay road tax', the correct response is the following:

"**** off and die in a fire you oxygen thief"

Fixed that for ya. 😉

And for those that think road tax is all about emissions, please explain why two identical cars, with identical emissions, don’t pay identical road tax if one is used only in closed course competitions

I suspect for exactly the same reason that on private land you don't need a driving license, or mot, or need to wear at seatbelt, or need to obey speed limits, or be over 17...

It’s called road tax, because it IS a tax we pay to use the roads.

So why don't cyclists, horses and pedestrians (and 2 million cars) pay it then?

There's no point getting into semantics. It's a tax on motor vehicles used on the public highway. It is not ringfenced to pay for roads; it is simply part of general taxation. Its bands are set according to emissions. There, easy.

It's a tax on motor vehicles used on the public highway.

Except the ones that have low emissions.

[url= http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/who-pays-road-tax/ ]Or mobility cars. Or police and emergency vehicles. Or really old cars. [/url]

😀

I defined emissions when i said the banding is set by emissions, just didn't specify that some bands could be zero rate. And yes, there are of course exceptions.

Looked at 'Infiniti' cars in a showroom a few weeks back (The Nissan version of Toyota's Lexus brand). Yikes! Frightening prices and frightening emissions. Nice finish on the interiors though.

It’s called road tax, because it IS a tax we pay to use the roads.

No, it's a tax you pay to drive a certain type of car on the roads.