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The helmet: a stupid piece of headwear that makes you uncomfortable and sweaty and look like a spaz
What a child.
A child? What for stating the truth?
How often do you land on your head when riding? I haven't landed on my head in 30 years... how often are you landing on yours?
Gribs, I take the same view. I wear one on my MTB, mainly against branches, but on the road bike when I'm doing 40Km/h plus on the hard shoulder with cars passing at 150km/h I don't see it making the difference. If it's my time, it's my time.
AnalogueAndy, I'm riding out of the country right now.
would never consider not wearing a lid for most of the riding I do
*COUGH*busted*COUGH*
Even the most laid back cyclist cooperative in Bristol insists on helmets for all rides - not exactly an oddity.
How often do you land on your head when riding? I haven't landed on my head in 30 years... how often are you landing on yours?
I've had a head injury once when road riding - in taking evasive action from an oncoming car on my side of the road during a high speed descent in slippery conditions. I hit a dirt/rock bank head first, cracked the helmet and my cheekbone, concussed myself, multiple minor lacerations. i don't think the helmet made a blind bit of difference. In hindsight I think I'd have been going slower if I hadn't been wearing one - and would have avoided the accident altogether.
Yet I STILL wear one! Can't shake the compulsion not to. I KNOW they are useless but.....
CBA to read the entire thread, but I've often seen roadies and climbers not wearing lids?????????????
They have every right to establish rules for their club, and if they are 'serious' roadies (team kit etc) they will almost certainly enjoy establishing rules about dress code, a couple of the club riders at my work mutter darkly about the lack of an appropriate 'grooming standard' at their club since they liberalised the membership rules.
As others have said clubs tend to have their own rules - some require everyone to carry tools, some frown on even tiny seatpost bags etc Its all a bit uptight tbh, there may even be a reason for this helmet rule - maybe one of the club took a bad spill in the past helmetless?
CBA to read the entire thread, but I've often seen roadies and climbers not wearing lids?????????????
I tend not to wear one when climbing, I find them quite awkward and I'm more likely to knock stones down than have one come from above me.
CBA to read the entire thread, but I've often seen roadies and climbers not wearing lids?????????????
Most climbing helmets are only designed to deflect stuff falling from above. As such mine only gets worn at loose/busy crags and in winter to keep my head warmer. I also find I tend to bang my head into stuff when I have it on.
You are a child because your arguments are either littered with flaws or are immature. If you are capable of directing me to these publised studies of drivers giving helmetless cyclists a wider berth please do, I imagine such a paper would have had the same cyclists, on the same roads, at the same time of day, the same weather conditions, same drivers and same amount of traffic, the only difference being helmet or no helmet? I imagine that the data is sufficient enough to test for real significance and is unbiased.
I don't care whether you wear one or not, but the fact of the matter is I haven't heard of any cases where NOT wearing a helmet has saved someone's life or has protected them from injury whereas I have heard many supporting the case of wearing a helmet.
But then I guess you care more about looking 'gay' or a 'spaz.'
A lot of clubs have this rule.
Replace helmet with seatbelt, bike with car and group with country. Whats the difference?
a couple of the club riders at my work mutter darkly about the lack of an appropriate 'grooming standard' at their club since they liberalised the membership rules
Actually there's nothing wrong with that. It floats my boat when the club riders turn up well presented.
Every ride is important to me, so I make sure I'm well groomed as if I was off on a date or interview.
but on the road bike when I'm doing 40Km/h plus on the hard shoulder with cars passing at 150km/h I don't see it making the difference. If it's my time, it's my time.
to be honest if you are riding on roads like this frequently you are increasing the likelihood of time being called
to get back to the OP, you are being asked to conform to a group "norm" and wear a helmet like every other rider in the group. You obviously own a helmet and it would be a minimal inconvenience. You could easily hang it off the bars to and from the meet and wear it during the group part of the ride. For some reason you want to break this group norm because of your personnlaly held views on the usefulness of helmets.
good luck forming your own/ finding a helmetless chaingang, the guys you have ridden with aren't going to change just for you and it's nothing to do with the rest of your apparel 😉
A lot of clubs have this rule.
Do they? Don't know any round here that do? Roadies seem not to be as hysterical about the subject 😉
Big n daft, you're making so many assumptions that I'll have to wait until I get a keyboard to reply.
Fourbanger - as always you have sparked off an interesting debate. The question about what is the right thing to do ultimately comes down to balancing three perspective: maximising everyone's welfare, respecting freedom and promoting virtue. Depending on your perspective, you may come to different conclusions.
Your question seems based on the concept of respecting freedom - in this case, the freedom not to wear a helmet. Even though I think you are ill-advised not to wear a helmet, I am persuaded by your libertarian concept that you should be free to choose. Equally, the club should be free to choose whether they let you join them or not (same as single sex clubs IMHO) especially if they also believe that their choice maximises everyone's welfare.
As a cyclist, however, I struggle with the strength of feeling and abuse that is levelled towards those who choose not to wear a helmet. In this thread this has been pointed at times. But is this abuse logical? I suppose you can argue that not wearing a helmet is irresponsible and (as an early post states) would impose an obligation on the rest of the club to look after you in the event of an accident. Ok, this seems fair enough. But how far does this logic hold up. As cyclists our general choice of clothing leaves us vulnerable to serious injury particularly in the most common form of injuries that involve shoulders and limbs. So aren't we also being irresponsible to rise a road bike/TT bike clad simply in very thin lycra. What about mtb without arm/wrist/knee protection etc?? Nobody jumps up and down hurling abuse about these issues and yet they could probably prevent more accidents (including serious ones) than wearing a helmet.
Just a thought and having said all of that - I think you should wear a helmet anyway 😉
Most climbing helmets are only designed to deflect stuff falling from above. As such mine only gets worn at loose/busy crags and in winter to keep my head warmer. I also find I tend to bang my [s]head[/s] helmet into stuff when I have it on.
🙄
I've split 2 helmets in 20 years of riding - that's not very many but I'm glad I was wearing a lid on those two occasions, I had a hit of a headache but my head was in one piece. I have no problem riding with someone who wasn't wearing a lid though, it's their choice. (still think you're a sandwich short of a picnic to choose to ride without though)
Interesting thread - more because of what is says about the posters than the topic. Some posters turn it into a debate about their favourite topic rather than answer the question. And some are just twits. On both sides.
The bottom line is - as was said very early on - it is the clubs choice to ride with you or not. In our MTB club we have exactly the same rule. In a road club it may be less justified by the evidence, but it is still their call. If you don't like it, you have the choice to find another club or wear a lid. Simple isn't it?
What about mtb without arm/wrist/knee protection etc?? Nobody jumps up and down hurling abuse about these issues and yet they could probably [s]prevent[/s][i] minimise[/i] more [s]accidents[/s][i]injuries[/i] (including serious ones) [s]than wearing a helmet[/s] [i] although head injuries are more likely to be fatal to the casualty than a broken limb[/i].FIFY
to be honest I think the debate on the efficacy of cycle helmets in use is a complex issue without definitive evidence as often results are influenced by rider behavior when they do/ don't wear helmets.
personally I wear one, my kids wear one, but I'll still ride a bike without one
if I wanted to ride with people who required helmet wearing then fair enough, I want to join them not the other way around
..plus the first time you DO land on your head (hopefully wearing a lid) you will wonder why you ever asked the question.
On a practical note - how do you make them less sweaty. MTB-ing seems worse that road biking. It feels like I have poured a bucket on my head.
Interesting thread - more because of what is says about the posters than the topic.
I couldn't agree more. It's quite amusing how the most obvious answer was made very early on and the thread has reached four pages with so much repetition of the solution.
how do you make them less sweaty.
fit people and those of the correct weight sweat less as a general rule.
More expensive ones have more vents but tbh I cant tell the difference between my venty one and non venty one.
I've fell on my head a couple of times mtb'ing and won't ride without a helmet if I'm doing anything above easy gravel type paths. Not sure if it'd help much in a serious crash but I feel more confident riding with one so it's good for that if nothing else. I don't think I've ever fell off a bike when I was just riding along a road or something, other than the time I decided to mess around doing skids in the ice on my road bike 😆 So I don't bother on the road especially as it's so flat in my area.
Don, the answer given only answers the question on a very simplistic level. Edit, infact it doesn't really answe the question at all, but does solve the problem. There is more that can and has been explored plus three pages are needed to dedicate to abuse.
Just noticed the 'how many times do you land on your head' posts. And I am surprised head/----- interfaces aren't that common.
I've broken three lids since the days of the first Tomac hardshells.
Slipped on diesel and my head slid into the kerb, broken Bell.
Hit a fallen branch training on my usual XC route, broken Met.
Hit by car, head hit tarmac, broken Giro.
I've had no end of impacts with things across the trail that weren't there the day before!
When we wore the hairnet lids for racing and never for training, I broke my nose twice and lost teeth on three occassions. At least since I've been wearing a lid I've not bust or lost any body parts.
So I'm surprised that lots of folk haven't hit their heads whilst riding and thought 'good job I was wearing a lid'
I will say, a lot of the older clubs and older riders don't wear them.
how do you make them less sweaty.
Sweating is not bad. Sweating is healthy.
Fourbanger, it's a very simple question.
Fourbanger - what answer is going to satisfy you?
I suspect that they believe that having a helmet is safer or cooler or looks better, or reduces the chance of them being inconvenienced by you cracking your nut. Doesn't really matter which. They want to ride with people who conform to their values and rules. Arguing the toss with them or looking for a cast iron reason which would convince you who does not want to conform to these rules is pointless. Perhaps your unwillingness to conform to this team approach also will tell them something about how you might fit in?
If you need to query this you need to ride with someone else.
despite the idiocy of some comments on this thread from both sides and the temptation to respond I'm not going to rise to it... I'm intelligent enough to decide when and when not to wear *insert protective thing here* when I'm doing *insert activity here*
what I am curious to know is this...
If this is a club riding on public roads, and their timetables are obviously well published enough for you to know when they are riding, what is to stop you turning up at the same time as their rides and riding the same route as them at the same speed? You could even try and engage them in conversation while you ride...
I understand and respect your right to choose to wear, or not wear a helmet.
I also understand and respect their right to *ask* you to wear a lid if you want to join their club rides, or even to refuse you entry into their club (if it has a proper membership subs etc).
But I do not understand them saying that you can't ride *with* them. Unless it is on private land then you are be free to ride the same route at the same speed and they can only *ask* you to wear a lid, not force you. What would they do if you turned up again and refused? just stand there and not do their club ride? I think not....
They could of course blank you the whole way and not interact with you in any way. Could be fun to turn up to half a dozen rides with them without a lid and chat merrily away to them as you ride and see what happens 🙂
Matt
If this is a club riding on public roads, and their timetables are obviously well published enough for you to know when they are riding, what is to stop you turning up at the same time as their rides and riding the same route as them at the same speed? You could even try and engage them in conversation while you ride...
I'm intelligent enough
😆
amedias, a bit creepy though.
Don, the answer given only answers the question on a very simplistic level. Edit, infact it doesn't really answe the question at all
I'm at something of a loss as to know what sort of answer you are expecting? Are you expecting people to say that this case breaches fundamental human rights? Is it an example of the tyranny of the majority view? You asked a simple question: You got a simple answer. What's the problem?
creepy maybe, might not even be very enjoyable for either party, but it this kind of thing annoys me.
don simon - I said i was intelligent enough to work out what to wear and when, not that I knew anything about the intricacies of roadie club rides 🙂
I should know this really, but clubs under the BC are encouraged to produce a set of rules or a code of good practice for their members.
Riders pay membership to enjoy the benefits that a club can offer including insurance, and the BC do push the wearing of helmets.
I do feel that this again is a dig at clubs rather than the issue of wearing hemets. Especially road clubs. And bear in mind that many road club members are engaged in a sporting aspect of cycling all of which will enforce the wearing of helmets.
That said the wearing of a helmet is just a given amongst roadies, just like wearing shoes for riding in, we just do it, it's not an issue.
[b]Amedias[/b] annoying you to the point of forcing yourself on people who don't want you? 🙁
Why does it annoy you?
TBH I would have thought that most people would know that wearing a helmet is a requirement of a club ride.
No one rejected the OP,and they have invited him back to join them, but asked if he would wear a helmet.
As I mentioned above, clubs are asked to provide a set of rules for such ride. The BC guidline on this says 'riders MUST wear helmets.
It is rather strange after all I feel to join a club and not expect to have to concede to any rules. That is the nature of clubs, again I thought this would be common knowledge.
The OP has been asked to do just one thing, if the OP does not want to do this one thing, then perhaps finding another club might be a good idea.
I don't think persuing them, and becoming an agitator a very good idea. I'm pretty certain neither side would enjoy it, it just seems to lack any social grace. Rather like the dog walker that insisted on letting his dog off the lead and poo'ing on the grass in the middle of a kids football match, yes he had every right to be there as he did every other day, but most folk would accept him as a social retard.
Oldgit
As I mentioned above, clubs are asked to provide a set of rules for such ride. The BC guidline on this says 'riders MUST wear helmets.
Where is this written? I don't know of any clubs around here which enforce this rule and they are all are BC affiliated, I know it's a requirment for BC racing (but not the arguably larger sport of time trialing) but have never come across the idea of BC having any input on club runs
If this is a club riding on public roads, and their timetables are obviously well published enough for you to know when they are riding, what is to stop you turning up at the same time as their rides and riding the same route as them at the same speed? You could even try and engage them in conversation while you ride...I understand and respect your right to choose to wear, or not wear a helmet.
I also understand and respect their right to *ask* you to wear a lid if you want to join their club rides, or even to refuse you entry into their club (if it has a proper membership subs etc).
[b]But I do not understand them saying that you can't ride *with* them.[/b]
I can, and can quite easily see them vocalising it if you wind them up by doing this if they continue to request that you wear a helmet if riding in their group. Being a twunt isn't going to change their minds 😉
Not the law of the land....but
Have a predetermined start time and communicate the route to all participants.
All participants should comply with the Highway Code.
All adult participants are responsible for their own well-being during the ride and
should be prepared for situations such as adverse weather conditions,
mechanical problems and flat tyres.
Have emergency procedures and communicate them to all participants. This
should include emergency procedures for incidents that riders may experience
during a ride (eg punctures, mechanical problems, changes in environmental
conditions, accidents involving one or more members of the group).
Have procedures in place to ensure that individual riders are not left on their
own during the session.
All riders should be aged 12 years or older, and be competent at a level
equivalent to the Level 2 Cycle Training Standards.
There is a greater duty of care for riders under the age of 18 years. Therefore, if
there are riders aged 12-18 years in the group, somebody will need to take
responsibility for these riders and ensure they are not left on their own during
the session.
Have a signed parental consent form for all riders under the age of 18 years.
All riders should be encouraged to take part in activities that are within their
capabilities.
All riders must wear a helmet
flid lid
What's a flid?
fit people and those of the correct weight sweat less as a general rule.
Lol. Bollox. Especially when you are using ephedrine or yohimbine etc.
"I should know this really, but clubs under the BC are encouraged to produce a set of rules or a code of good practice for their members.
Riders pay membership to enjoy the benefits that a club can offer including insurance, and the BC do push the wearing of helmets."
I don't ride in Britain (at the moment).
There are no subs.
My insurance is paid by me.
That said the wearing of a helmet is just a given amongst roadies, just like wearing shoes for riding in
That's not always been the case though has it? Only really relatively recently in the history of competitive cycling has it been a "given".