mactheknife -
😆 me too, shit i didnt actually read the post properly, xx1 does have a steel 42t cog, that indeed answers the wear issue question then, its still shite my x01 is buggered after 600 miles, but it also answers my own questions that my xx1 was still like new after 1200 miles!!!
dohhhh!!!! so xx1 is lighter, a bit more expensive, but has a steel 42t cog, where as x01 has a aluminium 42t cog!
again still crap its worn after 600 miles, but at least i know i can get a xx1 for the same price and it WILL last much longer
sorry njee if you put that at the start of the thread i must have misread 😳
xx1 does have a steel 42t cog
Not sure this is true unless they have changed it from the original models...if you google around there is plenty of reference in online reviews of the xx1 when it first came out having a pressed on aluminium largest sprocket. Every photo I have seen of a xx1 cassette looks like the largest sprocket is made of a different material to the other 10.
njee's first post also didn't say that was the case - merely that it was aluminium (in comparison to the others on the cassette being steel) - no obvious reference to there being a difference between x01 and xx1 in that regard.
S'ok, I didn't realise it wasn't alu on XX1 either, I was right by coincidence!
XX1 has a alloy 42 tooth cog.
Good, thought it did! It is slightly odd that the SRAM website refers to the XX1 cassette as:
4130 Chromoly
Whilst for XO1 it says
4130 chromoly steel (cog cluster), AL-7075-T6 (largest cog)
Didn't SRAM make a whole hoohah about the XX1 cassette being machined form a single block of steel and taking eleven hours of cnc?
They have just not got the specs correct on the website.
[quote=review]10 of the 11 cogs are machined from a single block of tool steel. Manufacturing begins with a bell-shaped forged blank. This blank is placed onto a lathe that removes a significant chunk of material and leaves the blank with a stair step profile. Next, a CNC machine removes more material by carving the teeth, shift ramps and the 16 pins that are used to secure the 42-tooth aluminum cog to the steel cassette body.
Soooo..what's the difference between them then? 😕
I'd have thought that with the amount of machining they receive it would be daft to make 2 different versions of them anyway.
Question for those that rotate chains regularly - how do you join them? For 11 speed I only see the powerlink things (the permanent ones) rather than the re-usable ones - and what is your regime?
njee20 - Member
Good, thought it did! It is slightly odd that the SRAM website refers to the XX1 cassette as:4130 Chromoly
Whilst for XO1 it says4130 chromoly steel (cog cluster), AL-7075-T6 (largest cog)
thats what ive just read - it suggest the xx1 is just steel, but ricks passage below suggests all are alloy!
dohh, so now it makes no sense again why its worn so much worse than my xx1 did 🙁
Soooo..what's the difference between them then?
Good question!
As above, I bought XX1 in the belief (from descriptions from SRAM and retailers) that it was 100% steel.
Just taken a magnet to the XX1 cassette and the 42T is indeed non-ferrous. Could be Ti but that is incredibly unlikely so it looks like both cassettes have Alu 42T sprockets.
Nevertheless the XX1 is 15g lighter and £20 more expensive. Kind of suggests just machining differences on the XX1 vs X01 42T sprockets which shouldn't affect wear...
Tis a mystery why XX1 cassettes seem to wear fine but XO1 be disappointing!
Question for those that rotate chains regularly - how do you join them? For 11 speed I only see the powerlink things (the permanent ones) rather than the re-usable ones - and what is your regime?
Used a KMC 10 speed quick link on the first chain, and have used the SRAM silver link that ships with the latest XX1 chains since then and using it like a quick link. It looks different to the black "permanent" link the XX1 chains used to ship with. Silver SRAM link seems fine for regular removal.
Regime is a bit OCD but after most rides the bike is covered in muck so I tend to give everything a good clean. Seems to work as I've 1400 miles on the cassette and it still looks new.
- Use one chain until worn to 0.5 (first chain I used was actually 0.75 but it didn't seem to do the cassette any harm)- replace chain after this.
- Remove chain after each muddy ride, degrease and relube
- Keep chain ring and jockeys clean (alu KCNC jockeys)
- Clean cassette after each muddy ride
Didn't SRAM make a whole hoohah about the XX1 cassette being machined form a single block of steel and taking eleven hours of cnc?
All of the Powerdome cassettes (Red/Red 22/XX/XX1) have had aluminium large sprockets to cover the back, the rest of the cassette is one piece of steel, they've not really been secretive about that.
Im guessing it was either very hard/not cost effective (for some reason?? to have it as a complete steel block?
seems a bit silly to have the one cog you use most as the softest, but again it still doesnt make absolutly any sense why the wear on mine is crap compared to xx1 before
maybe a duff batch or something!?
Just been checking my XX1 set up after todays ride.
It's covered 1200 miles since fitting it and the chain was changed at around 1000 miles. As other have said, the cassette looks like new and isn't showing any signs of wear at all.
Im guessing it was either very hard/not cost effective (for some reason?? to have it as a complete steel block?
Well you need to close the back off, so that it's supported on the freehub and doesn't fill with crap, and it would be virtually impossible to hollow out a billet entirely to include that, and a steel 42t sprocket would negate the weight savings of making it from a single piece of steel in the first place.
i knew there would be a reason, shame though, having said that as notmyrealname above everyone whose got xx1 is saying its fine, its just x01 so what the hell is the difference? there must be something somewhere/
Just given mine a good clean and pleased that the chain's nowhere near 0.75 after 600 miles.
You lot aren't selling this to me. Think I'll stick with a One-Up...
[img][URL= http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a551/oscillate_wildly1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3b5c0e62.jp g" target="_blank">
http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a551/oscillate_wildly1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3b5c0e62.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]
That's my cassette after 600 miles anyone compare? Njee given given you've done 600
What ya reckon? It does look a fair bit more worn compared the rest of the cogs?
OS me and my friends were disguising were we ride and we all came to the conclusion its a area of the country that probably has some of the most unfriendly conditions for drivetrain and brake pads in the whole of the UK.
XO1 will aways look worse wear wise due to how it looks when the black wears off.
Woah, that looks crap! It's all looking fairly worn, but yes, the 42 looks most worn.
Just snapped a quick photo on my phone, sorry about the light:
[img] 
[/img]
[i]I got mine in Dec 2012 and changed it in March 2014 along with the rear mech (bent)and new front ring.
So probably did 1500 miles on my original XX1 drive chain!
[/i]
So over £400 (cassette and four chains) for 1500 miles, based on I do twice that just in a year that'd be £800 as opposed to the £130 (two 9/10spd cassette and four chains) I spend currently...
I do fancy 1x11 and because I live in a very hilly area would really need the gear range of XX1, but not at those prices.
Rick I do agree it's very unfriendly on bike parts, but I had xx1 on my five from October through to march and the cassette was like new still, and that was ridden usually 2 nights rides and a big ride at weekend in the worse wet Peak District on record probably does look exaggerated due to the colour fading but the teeth look much worse
This x01 above was only put on 23rd march and has endured a decent amount of riding /climbing but the conditions have been much better than in winter, they must have been as I'm still on original pads from March! In winter I'm lucky get 3 weeks so conditions have been decent for using it, and I'm a tart to so it's always very thoroughly cleaned to boot 🙁
I'll see if I can find some pics of the xx1 when I sold it it was no where near as worn
Cheers njee appreciate the pic , and yep confirms what I though! That's how I remember my xx1 looking when I sold it! And I remember sayin at the time when I sold it how it still looked like new, and how it was still shifting like new etc, can't really see what I've done different it was just about at .75 maybe a touch below when I took the original chain off, which is what I did on the xx1 cassette
I'll see if the new chain beds In a bit with it my experienced lbs mechanic reckons it will mesh after a few rides but I don't think I'll be getting another 600 miles out of it regardless
Resurrecting this thread, just got 3 months out of a 34t XO1 chainring. This was through the driest summer for years! Anyone else amazed by the lack of durability with XO1?
Odd, i'm on my 3rd chain. I have 3 which i am rotating through. So about 1200 miles as it stands. Cassette and front chainring are in good condition and original. Nothing even close to needing changed as yet.
Chainring wear is something I would definitely expect. You are using one ring all the time, not 2 or 3 and also its running a lot of the time on the extremities and is expected to stabilise the chain as well as everything else.
My stats: xx1 36t 2500 miles, chain xx1 800-100 miles swap, cassette x01 1700 miles.(first cassette seized to free hub but wans't worn).
I use rock n' roll blue. That's it. I ride 150-200 miles a week on my czar. Wash it fairly often and muck out the rings.
Original chainring here still, 1200 miles or so I guess. Not really looking worn.
Isn't the newer and cheaper X1 cassette entirely made of steel?
This is the one thing putting me off 1x11.
X1 still has an alloy 42t
God damnit. Does anyone produce a steel cassette with a 42t cog?
So long as I'm several stone overweight all this thread has done is convince me not to ever waste my money on 11 speed.
Running my hard tail on XT with a One-Up 42t and Rad Cage. Works fine.
As this has popped up, I can add my little update.
Went away to Canada, had done around 26-2700km on an X01 drivetrain. I'd been having some rear mech issues, almost like the spring had failed and it wouldn't shift down the cassette (even with no cable in). It happened fairy infrequently, but got noticeably worse out there. Front chainring started the lovely grinding sound when putting power down, so was looking like it was pretty shot too.
To cut a long story short, racing the EWS did have it's advantages - as I left my bike with SRAM for the morning & came back to a warrantied new; mech, cassette, chain & chainring 🙂
I spoke to the tech guy who was fixing it, and he reckoned my cassette wasn't badly worn either, he thought I could have got at least another 1000km out of it. It did look awful though, with all the black worn off. I would have preferred an XX1, purely for aesthetics, and that's what I would have bought had I replaced it myself - never look a gift horse in the mouth though.
God damnit. Does anyone produce a steel cassette with a 42t cog?
No, because the 42t is almost solid, to close the back of the cassette, it would weigh a ton if it was steel. You'll need a conventional cassette construction to get a steel 42t.
I still think it's a red herring though, I barely use mine, and maintain that if one is using it regularly you'd be best downsizing your chainring.
No, because the 42t is almost solid, to close the back of the cassette, it would weigh a ton if it was steel. You'll need a conventional cassette construction to get a steel 42t.I still think it's a red herring though, I barely use mine, and maintain that if one is using it regularly you'd be best downsizing your chainring.
^ This.... having an alloy 42t isnt an issue if you have the correct gearing for your fitness... if you need to use your 42t too much.. you should change your chainring..
I should probably update on this thread too given it was me who started it
im still on the same cassette from new 6 months on, yes the 42t was looking a bit worse for wear but as above its probably due to the colouring making it look far worse
im now on the 2nd chain and easily over 1000miles (probably a touch more), if its really wet and shitty/gritty it can very occasionally slip in 42t, but to be honest id put that down to lack of chain lube and grit, ive started using some finishline ceramic wet lube wax and it seems a bit slicker gear changes, if your having to use 42t on every single climb, get a smaller ring up front
im not sure how much more ill get out of it, but it is shifting perfectly at the mo, ive just had a new gear cable, which makes things feel like new again too
I reckon ill at least get another chain as im going to swap this one at .50 wear just over
one thing ive noticed now the weathers turned abit, is it makes horrible noises when its gritty and wet (not really been used in any bad weather this summer), it eventually clears itself once you get going again but it sounds like its trashing your drivetrain in the peak district
fingers crossed I get another 1000miles, next time illbe getting a xx1 cassette as the black really does look terrible now
so all in all it wasn't actually worn when I posted this thread, yes the 42t is wearing quicker, but so far its proving to still be fine
and what njee says, it should be an emergency gear, which is exactly as im using it now so maybe that's helped with longevity, im back down in 2nd cog for all but the steepest/tiring climbs now just like I was back on 1x10, but it is nice knowing you have it there still
still no dropped chains mind, so that's still working perfectly
No, because the 42t is almost solid, to close the back of the cassette, it would weigh a ton if it was steel.
You mean, like 70-100 grams heavier? oh noes 😛
You mean, like 70-100 grams heavier? oh noes
You think most people will pay £300 for a cassette weighing more than a £20 one? Good luck with that.
Just push the pedals a bit harder so you're not reliant on the 42, or admit you're not as fit as you thought as fit a smaller ring. It's not really difficult!
You think most people will pay £300 for a cassette weighing more than a £20 one? Good luck with that.
I should imagine manufacturing it from steel would reduce the cost somewhat. I'd rather have durability over weight when it comes to drive train parts, especially on a system like 1x11 whereby you've lost a load of weight anyway (albeit you're adding rotating weight by going to a larger cassette).
1x10/11 systems get more wear anyway because of the funny chain lines involved. It sounds like a lot of ball ache for the sake of getting rid of the front mech.
To the point that I don't see the point of it, will just stick with 1x10 36r/32f and develop more strength.
I should imagine manufacturing it from steel would reduce the cost somewhat
Of course it wouldn't, maybe £10 or so, the expense is in the fact it's made of a single piece of steel, which takes hours to machine. They then stick the alu 42t on the back to 'close' the cassette. That's just a flat plate that's machined, negligible effort involved. So you'd have a £290 cassette instead, much better!
You don't trade durability, it's perfect durable anyway.
To the point that I don't see the point of it, will just stick with 1x10 36r/32f and develop more strength.
So you don't actually have it? You're worrying about a theoretical problem, which isn't a real one?
Of course it wouldn't, maybe £10 or so, the expense is in the fact it's made of a single piece of steel, which takes hours to machine. They then stick the alu 42t on the back to 'close' the cassette. That's just a flat plate that's machined, negligible effort involved. So you'd have a £290 cassette instead, much better!
Do you seriously think that manufacturing costs go up by 5-6 times to go from a fully steel 10 speed cassette to an 11 speed? It could be priced at SLX costs and still make a profit, it's just that 1x11 is priced so high because it's an aspirational product.
So you don't actually have it? You're worrying about a theoretical problem, which isn't a real one?
I've been working out whether it's worth splashing a **** tonne of money on. And my conclusion is that it's ridiculous given the durability complaints on here.
Do you seriously think that manufacturing costs go up by 5-6 times to go from a fully steel 10 speed cassette to an 11 speed?
No. But if you compare apples with apples, then that's not the case. But let's not let facts get in the way of ignorance eh?
[url= http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk//product.asp?category=200&part_no=FW999132&find_category=&find_description=&find_part_desc=xg-999 ]9 speed XG-999 11-32 cassette[/url]: £275
[url= http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk//product.asp?category=200&part_no=FWXX1136&find_category=&find_description=&find_part_desc=xx+cassette ]10 speed XX 11-36 cassette[/url]: £314
[url= http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk//product.asp?category=200&part_no=FWXX1042&find_category=&find_description=&find_part_desc=xx1+cassette ]11 speed XX1 10-42 cassette[/url]: £338
SLX is an entirely different construction, it's entirely irrelevant in this context. Go and look at how an XX1 cassette is assembled.
All of those I've linked to have the largest sprocket made from aluminium. So yes, make that out of steel and you'll probably save £10 or so and add a shed load of weight.
You could indeed make one like an SLX cassette, which would weigh a bit more, and cost a lot less. Shimano are going along those lines with XTR M9000, but it's only 11-40, and the biggest ones are ti anyway, so still not all steel. I imagine there'll be an M790 XT a year or so down the line, which will have a full steel construction, but it's a narrower range than XX1 and it'll weigh more, perhaps that's more your thing.
As for "aspirational pricing", XX1 is cheaper than XX as a whole groupset...
Would just like to point out that Shimano XTR M9000 cassette is [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-xtr-m9000-11-speed-cassette/rp-prod119732 ]half the price of XX1 at £160 ![/url]
In fact the M9000 groupset is good value. Priced about £590 on CRC.
I know what I'll be going for.
You could indeed make one like an SLX cassette, which would weigh a bit more, and cost a lot less. Shimano are going along those lines with XTR M9000, but it's only 11-40, and the biggest ones are ti anyway, so still not all steel. I imagine there'll be an M790 XT a year or so down the line, which will have a full steel construction, but it's a narrower range than XX1 and it'll weigh more, perhaps that's more your thing.
That would be perfect for me. I'd rather plow the rest of my budget over the next year into carbon rims, that new schwalbe tubeless system and an avalanche cartridge.
1x11 has been relegated to about last place in terms of build priority. I have a habit of destroying rear mechs on rocks as well, so would rather go with an XT mech coupled to an XTR shifter.
If it was more durable than reports seem to make out and cassettes were a little cheaper, it would be near the top of my upgrade list.
Would just like to point out that Shimano XTR M9000 cassette is half the price of XX1 at £160 !
Well, you mean it's [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sram-xx1-xg1199-11-speed-mtb-cassette/rp-prod91007?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom&gs=1&gclid=CNPwsI_N98ACFYMewwodvhYA3A&gclsrc=aw.ds ]£50 cheaper[/url] from the same vendor (and £190 elsewhere), and weighs 331g, versus 260g for XX1, and has a 364% range as opposed to a 420% range.
So yes... M9000 is indeed cheaper, although it's actually only 20% cheaper, not half, it has a narrower range, and it weighs 70g more. Which is probably among the cheaper weight savings for the sort of people buying it. XD bodies weigh less too, so more weight savings there.
I know which I'll buy...
Fair point- was being lazy and looking at just your post.
Weight isn't everything though and rather than just steel it features some Ti too.
Am I right in thinking the XTR will fit on a normal freehub body too? That saves even more money.
Each to their own. Glad Shimanos in the game (with a cheaper price and retro fit option too).
