[Closed] Will motorists and cyclists ever see eye to eye?

Yes.

Thread Dead.

do you drive foxy? you seem to have an us and them attitude.

I am some times a motorist, sometimes a pedestrian, sometime a cyclist.

I know I was in the wrong by swearing and getting angry but it always presses by anger button when I nearly loose my life or a limb.

Yeah I'm the same - its so hard to resist the urge to get in the argument when they cut you up.

Will some motorists always hate cyclists?

I never said I wasn't a motorist - I also give cyclists as much room as I can!!! I am a motorist that doesn't hate cyclists and I am a cyclist that doesn't hate motorists as a general rule!!!

I was almost touched by a car that squeezed through at circa 15mph last week. Im talking soo close that normally you'd fall off out of shock. Anyway caught up with the car at the lights and asked them why. Reason? "I shouldn't have been in the way".

This week, woman in town (she had her drivers window open)- I said 'slow down you will live longer'....noticed the fag in her hand and I added 'ah maybe not'. (she HEARD this) 😆

As long as you get people who think UKIP policies will put the Great back in Britain, you'll get people who hate cyclists 🙂

LOL @ hora

I know its easy to get on your high horse and tell a story in your favor but there is some shocking driving out there and driving attitudes - Got to get from A to B as quick as possible.

However of late I have seen some shocking cycling - It seems to be people who however look like they never had cycling proficiency as school 🙂

Personally I just think commuting on the roads whether that be as a cyclist or driver is a generally unenjoyable potentially stressful experience. Those drivers who don't see eye-to-eye with cyclists will more than likely not see eye-to-eye with any other road user.

As long as you get people who think UKIP policies will put the Great back in Britain,

you mean "put the [b]grate[/b] back " ?

I think most of us are motorists as well as cyclists, pedestrians, train users etc.

The question, surley, 'is will cyclists and non cyclists ever see eye to eye ?'

probably not !

Surely the question should be "Will the guy who's window I hit this morning when I had a hissy fit think all cyclist are dicks?"

Oh no he said "he and his brother both cycle and has never seen such a thing before" i.e. anger and swearing. Hmm prob just taka trail for him then?

"Will the guy who's window I hit this morning when I had a hissy fit think all cyclist are dicks?"

Probably - he wont think oh that was a bad piece of driving - yes loosing your rang probably isn't a positive for cyclists but its hard to keep it calm when you have the willies when the car nearly takes you with it 🙁

answer: yes, just before you plunge headfirst through their windscreen and headbutt them in their stupid face!

I had the same yesterday, 'defensive cycling' up to a mini roundabout where people often squeeze past, 4x4 man comes round anyway so Im millimeters from his bumper, he then gives me the V's. I catch up with him in 2 minutes, tap on his window and ask him why he stuck the V's. He vented many reason including-

-Me taking up too much room
-Cutting the island (I didnt)
-No cyclist insurance
-me being a ****er

I kept calm when I really wanted to thump him in the side of his head, just where his stupid Blue Tooth ear growth was.

He shouted *p1ss off* at me as we parted.

in my car a woman in hers comes hairing up the inside, in the bus lane, then attempted to cut me up. I didn't let her, and so she started giving me the w**ker sign, Vs, the lot. I started playing charades with her.

She didn't get it

4x4 man comes round...
-Me taking up too much room

delicious irony 🙂

Basically we're aggressive apes and not designed to cope with selfpowered machinery.

I think it mostly due to people "having to get infront of the precieved SLOW cyclist" to get from A to B ASAP. Once you are passed their wing mirror then its "out of sight, out of mind". Most people seem to drive in AUTO mode (I am guilt at times) but why can't people say "oh, sorry yeh you might have a point there" - a lot of people think they are in the right all the time - If I am in the wrong I try and make a point of owning up/appologising 🙂

I have also noted that since the clocks have changed and the sun is out - joe public are in a state of "increased brownian motion" 🙂

I think the answer is no.

Being a regular cyclist, motorist and pedestrian, I regularly see a number of motorists and cyclists driving / riding irresponsibly, but i also see the majority of them usually riding/cycling responsibly.

This is a good thread.

When I'm cycling on the road cars pass too near and I generally don't like it and don't like the way UK drivers (generalising) treat cyclists.

When I’m in the car I bloody hate slow lycra clad sperm heads taking up my road!!

So depending on my vehicle I can't even see eye to eye with myself

Last week I ended up getting cut up twice within 100 yards. On a mini roundabout, I kept going straight to avoid getting run over but someone still tried to overtake me. The other case was the same as you, indicating to get around a parked bus, but a 4x4 driver decided to block my way and try and knock me off.

All ended in a stand up row at a roundabout a mile up the road. Two guys shouting at me, me shouting back. One guys argument was that I'm on a bike and he's in a car, so I have no rights! I love that argument, why doesn't he just drive over the top of me then?

Then another driver pulled up to help defend me, saying that he'd seen me get cut up twice and that I was in the right, indicating clearly both times and just standing my ground.

Fianally the 4x4 driver, who told me he was a roadie, kinda realised he fu**ed up. He wouldn't apologise but held his hand out for me to shake adding, "I'm not really a prick, you don't think I'm a prick do you?". Brilliant!

Basically, the attitude of the guy who said that he was in a car so more inportant is the problem. Bikes are slow and to be overtaken, even if thet're not slow and overtaking is dangerous, they are a hindarance to their forward progression.

There will always be some conflict. So, accept it and just try to stay safe.

I don't agree with moving in to the middle of a lane to try and prevent an accident. You restrict the view of the road ahead for the car driver behind you, which in turn limits their options and makes them more frustrated. I followed a group of roadies last night who had split up into groups of half a dozen or so (v helpful), but who also went from 2 or 3 abreast to single file when they thought it was safe for me to pass on the straights. It would have been less frustrating for me if they had left the decision on when to overtake up to me (as I am a perfect driver :-))
I think some motorists will always hate cyclists though.

just try to stay safe.

Yup thats my commute often 🙂

When I used to commute in Sheffield, the drivers weren't too bad, as you could easily keep up with traffic on a bike. The bus drivers, on the other hand...

HOw many arguments end up with a positive outcome?

I've given up, unless I lose the plot.

But think about it, your on a bike and you see somebody 400 yards ahead on a bike not as good. Think Raleigh Shopper or Apollo

You brain says "they are not as good as me, chase 'em down and pass 'em them, do it! do it!"

It's just how we work. That is why I'm now a buddhist

HOw many arguments end up with a positive outcome?

True , just my primitive brain takes over and "fight or flight mode" enuses 🙂 Perhaps I need to go to cycle anger management calsses 🙂

I commute through Antwerp in Belgium. Up here there is a critical mass of bike riding, not in the militant sense, it's just that cycling is Belgium's national sport (if they have one) and just about everyone gets out on a bike once in a while. This leads, IME to considerably more empathy shown by car drivers towards cyclists than in other cities I have lived in.

ofc there are always morons remaining on both sides of the fence but the more people that ride and drive (even if they only ride a little) the safer the whole situation becomes.

you want to see the other side of the coin, try Amdsterdam, there you'd struggle to drive a car around anywhere, there's so many bikes!

Yeh TBH I think overall motorists have improved I think in the past few years probably as more people cycle now?

HOw many arguments end up with a positive outcome?

I've given up, unless I lose the plot.

Ain't that the truth!

try Amdsterdam, there you'd struggle to drive a car around anywhere, there's so many bikes!

YAY! IMO it was a bad idea to admit powered carriages to the urban environment.

I love these threads.

There always seems to be plenty of people ready to launch themselves kung fu style through the passenger window and show any aggresive teh car driver the error of their ways.

Bicycles (with an average speed of say 15mph) on the road are always going to be considered an annoyance, so convincing other road users that we have every right to be on the road will always be an uphill struggle.

But do wonder how many cyclists thank the nice car drivers?

I mean, sure, i've had my fair share of arguments with bluetooth headset wearing middle managers driving their BMW shaped penis extensions. But when a car driver is couteous and waits behind me before overtaking when it's safe to do so i always give them a raised hand as a thank you, and alot of the time will get an aknowledgment back from the car driver. now surely this must have a positive effect on that car drivers opnion of cyclists.

So could the answer be 'we all need to be nicer' and perhaps show our appreciation when a car driver gets it right?

But do wonder how many cyclists thank the nice car drivers?

Sorry but I do actually - I usually wave if someone stays behind be until its save to overtake - Sorry to dissapoint you 🙂

Ah, maybe it's just the roadies then?

But they never wave at anyone do they 😕

As I've said before, once you've punched the car you've effectively lost the argument - you've just turned it into an us-against-them setup where they are the victim. Failed from the start.

I don't punch cars it hurts - bashing on the side to let the driver know what he is doing is not loosing the argument surely?

I always try & do as mattk says & thank patient people in their cars who wait for a safe overtaking opportunity, don't pull out of that 50/50 T-Junction etc.
I hope that they remember it the next time they meet a cyclist and behave in the same way again.

It is annoying though when you come across the motorists who think that you have no right to be on the road and they must get past you as quickly as possible, regardless of how dangerous it is.

mattk - Member

But do wonder how many cyclists thank the nice car drivers?

Me - I do frequently.

I also try to remember to spoilt he idiots in cars day more than they spoil yours - so politely point out the error of their ways, a choice insult if appropriate and cycle off whistling and laughing at them.

Don't let it get to you. Don't lose your temper of let it rankle.

Now that I commute for an hour each way I've lost nearly all of my rage (used to be a proper red mist idiot) and the only thing I do get animated about are licensed vehicles (buses, taxis etc) even then I'll only make a comment (no insults) and then send an email to their bosses. Had a couple of calls out of this so hoepfully those drivers will get a flea in their ear.

Riding defensively and thanking/acknowledging other vehicles helps as the drivers see you more as a vehicle/human and less as a lycra clad obstacle (this doesn't tend to work for the generally stupid types that shouldn't have a license in the 1st place)

IMO/IME getting aggravated on the road leads to more incidents as you increase the risk level / chase down cars etc etc - stay zen kids!

This problem will be with us forever unfortunately and is why I will hardly ever cycle on the road.

Now if we had proper cycle lanes / routes, covering all areas then we'd be making progress.

At least by sticking to the dirt I know that if I get damaged it's probably my fault (unless it's a badger's fault for sitting in the middle of a trail and forcing me off the singletrack 😉 )

S'funny, I just dont seem to get the kind of incidents that a lot of youse seem to, and I'm really assertive. I dont kid myself that the average reasonable driver actually welcomes me there, but a lot of that is down to their ignorance of the law.
The thing you shouldn't forget about the occasional psycho that does something daft, is that these folk drive like that around EVERBODY, are angry with all vehicles they encounter. The best response is to chill, and do their thinking for them.

I've mixed feelings about thanking drivers, Its fair enough when they've gone out of their way of course, but I'm not sure if its a good idea to encourage the expectation of thanks for 'simply noticing that I'm there' or 'not pulling into my priority' like a few cyclists seem to.

Now if we had proper cycle lanes / routes, covering all areas then we'd be making progress.

S'funny, I just dont seem to get the kind of incidents that a lot of youse seem to, and I'm really assertive

Hmm. I would class myself as a very assertive as I have to be - I just think that maybe you just haven't encountered it badly me think!!

Foxyrider, 25 years of road riding on every sort of, and speed of, road in all parts of Scotland, and brief spells elsewhere, If there was aggro to be dealt with I would've found it!

>I've mixed feelings about thanking drivers,

Occasionally, as I do sometimes in a car according to circumstances (IYKWIM)

>I don't agree with moving in to the middle of a lane to try and prevent an accident. You restrict the view of the road ahead for the car driver behind you,

Ah, you'll be the one being peeling off the road at some point. If you can't see past a bike - or indeed a car - perhaps some tuition on safe overtakes/road positioning (IAM etc) would help. Apart from anything else, moving over/taking the lane gives you room to go somewhere if someone *does* cut you up.

On the subject of the IAM - the relevant handbooks are 'Roadcraft' and 'Motorcycle Roadcraft'. I believe there's also a 'Bicycle Roadcraft' where it covers 'taking the lane' - have a search on 'vehicular cycling'.

Had some silly tart* do the same crap overtake trick twice this morning - both times as I'd moved out to go past something. First - a long line of parked cars, where I was most of the way out but I actually needed to move out further to miss a manhole cover/crap road repair. Second time was a parked Police car, with a pedestrian reservation *not* that far in of it. Dunno which bit of the road she thought I was intending to occupy...

*I'm not being discriminatory, if it'd been a bloke I'd have written stupid pr*ck.

As a Cyclist/Motorist/Pedestrian I have to say the general levels of aggressive behaviour on the roads have gone up noticeably over the last decade or so, some people will act like a dick whatever vehicle you’re in/on, basically if you take a common or garden cock and put them in the drivers seat of an A4 it magnifies they “Cockishness” by a factor of about ten and they abuse just about anyone…

I think the increase of late is down to the more general “malaise” of the country at the minute, Economic crisis, Shite weather, Papers and TV news that seem to report nothing but Kiddie murders, Bankers bonuses, MP’s on the fiddle and Redundancy’s galore all contribute, plus there are just too many cars about, I do my best not to avoid driving now, certainly around town, any journey under 3 miles can be walked if you allow the time so why heap stress on yourself and I do feel better adjusted after a weekend without driving, even though I really quite like driving or at least used to…

“Road rage” stems from the old “fight or flight” response, having 2 tons of metal makes some people Err more towards the “Fight” end of things, and I think if people are feeling generally more harassed then their fuses get shorter still, I’m not trying to justify it merely looking at the contributing factors… My advice is to pity them, they’ve sat getting fatter and angrier in their tin box while as a cyclist you can glide past the jams and will have done some exercise by the end of your commute, don’t bother to wave your fingers back at them or shout, just turn the other cheek, be the bigger man (or woman) and rise above it all (easier said than done I know)…

I stopped commuting after having driver clip me. I raised my hand in anger at him, he stops further up and then we have a few words. I ride off, he then wheelspins and aims the car at me and only just missed me as I had the sense to jump the bike onto the pavement.

I had a witness, he has been charged with Dangerous Driving. Just waiting on the court date now.

@ west kipper - Maybe I am less tollerant then - no offence intended 🙂

Nah, foxy, maybe I came across as doubting the fact, and it is a fact, that there are a lot of angry, wound up folk on the roads that wouldn't dare behave like that if they weren't inside a car.
I definitely think things get worse every year, and the only thing thats going to stop it is, y'know, like actual law enforcement. 🙄
(absolutely not more stupid f***ing cyclelanes!)

wouldn't dare behave like that if they weren't inside a car.

Good point - I'm only aggressive on my bike when my life has been put in danger but I agree that people have a different persona when behind the wheel 🙂

but there is some shocking driving out there and driving attitudes

I know, my poor-driving attitude is almost legendary... 😆

In answer to Foxy's original question from the day the car was invented it's always been that way for'some' motorists.

But as lots have said above, as the roads reflect social attitudes generally so 'some' has grown and has perhaps sadly become the majority.

For those who find themselves rising to challenges (red mist) this is a recommended read:

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