[Closed] What new 'enduro' bike?

Transition Patrol may fit the bill?
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Good article on pinkbike today. Right on cue 😀

I'd love to put a geometry 'expert' (wearing a dog's cone collar from the vets) on some bikes. Find out if they really can feel a horst link! Ask them the steering angle and rake!

I'm not convinced everyone would know the wheel size.

I'm not convinced everyone would know the wheel size.

You should at least between 26 and 29 the bike will ride very differently.

Anyway back to the original question, I dunno why people rush off to these weird brands when the big ones have you covered with some quality bikes e.g. Trek Remedy

[img] [/img]

really? A typical 29er hardtail will ride loads differently to a 650b enduro bike, sure.
But how much of that is wheel size?

A stone hitting the tyre a few mm's further up the 29er...

vs - head tube angle vastly different, rake / trail, height of bars, stem length, CoG of rider on the bike etc...

And wheel size is something most people think they can feel.

What about that horst link?

"I like horst links"

Does that statement even make sense?

Single pivot, virtual pivot, how is the shock compressed? There's so many parts of the suspension design that would affect the bike other than the horst link

A sensibly-designed horst link bike vs a sensibly- designed single pivot. That's what he means. Obviously. It's almost like you're being intentionally obtuse.

pjbarton - Member

"I like horst links"

Best of all the animals

IME on a 29er you can really feel the gyroscopic stability, which like everything has its pros and cons.

Superficial

A sensibly-designed horst link bike vs a sensibly- designed single pivot. That's what he means. Obviously. It's almost like you're being intentionally obtuse.

Good old Singletrackworld; if you dismiss a £3000 bike because it's cheap or common well that's fine. Dismiss it based on empirical personal preference and a healthy dose of logic and people clamour to rip you apart.

Geometry is important, well that's sacrilege. Test ride a bike, ridiculous. Try to understand how it works, laughable. Magazine reviews are less than perfect, liar. Worst of all, dare to suggest that advancements in frame geometry is actually a good thing, well that's blasphemy right there in a land where people mock the idea of 50mm stems and bars wider than 710 are laughable and will see you stuck in the trees.

"IME on a 29er you can really feel the gyroscopic stability, which like everything has its pros and cons."

Yep, but weight would play a major part in gyroscopic effect too. How would a heavier 650b feel compared to a lighter 29er for instance? I'm not sure.

"Obviously. It's almost like you're being intentionally obtuse."

Not at all, just pointing out the myriad variables in bike design and rider influence - literally thousands of aspects coming together to influence the 'ride'.

Pulling out single aspects and angrily attacking / defending them is nonsense.

Anyway back to the original question, I dunno why people rush off to these weird brands when the big ones have you covered with some quality bikes e.g. Trek Remedy

This.
The bigger brands (although far from infallible) generally put out some great bikes...they have the R&D budget, the pro test riders etc....and the end result is usually very polished, rides brilliantly and due to economy of scale comes in at a reasonable price too....whats not to like?

Obviously everyone is different and some riders do genuinely want to help a new firm like 'Bird' get a foothold in the market, after all competition and choice is a good thing....but so many riders want to be different for the sake of being different, there's an element of 'look at me' about their bike choice....'see how much of a connoisseur i am?!'....even though the bike they're on is effectively being tested by the buying public due to limited R&D from the companies in question.

I had an (almost) unlimited amount to spend on my last FS, i'm not rich i'd just been saving and had the credit card ready also....i looked at British made, i love the industrial lines of an Orange-5, i liked the idea of the start-up Bird company....i love Nukeproof's stuff and for a 14st rider like me they seem built like tanks...i even canvassed opinion on here and was met with all the usual leftfield suggestions, Canfield this, Salsa that, Evil the other etc....Transition and Banshee pricked my interest and may be an option when i buy a DH bike next year but in the end i went for a....Giant.

Haha, why?!....i test rode one and was blown away.

The rear suspension is fantastic and really has had some magic worked into it (they can thank Dave Weagle for that but its a touchy litigious subject!), it actually firms up under pedalling....none of that horrible bobbing that seemed to plague other bikes i'd tested....the Alu mix Giant use seems impossibly light and i liked the fact i can swap between 140mm, 150mm and 160mm forks depending on what kind of riding i'm doing and Giant are fine with that and will honour the warranty....it has a normal tapered head tube, helicoiled post mount rear brake fittings, 135x10 or 142x12 dropouts that are easily interchangeable....and as a bonus they chucked in one of their own brand Giant Contact dropper posts...i also like the fact i walked into the shop to buy it, visited again recently to have the BB fitted (fitting was free, all i did was buy the hatefull pressfit thing).....so here i am out on the trails on a mass produced aluminium trail/enduro machine that is about as grey and anonymous as these things get, its even grey and black in colour!....but i dont care, it rides beautifully, has a comprehensive warranty and excellent main dealer back-up should i need it.....any money i have burning a hole in my pocket i'll spend on the best brakes and drivetrain i can get at the time as that will make more of a difference to me than whether the bike is 'on trend' with it's ETT/reach/whatever measurements!

Jimjam, your problem isn't necessarily what you are saying, it'd hour you are saying it that gets a negative reaction!

It's almost as if

but i dont care, it rides beautifully, has a comprehensive warranty and excellent main dealer back-up should i need it.....any money i have burning a hole in my pocket i'll spend on the best brakes and drivetrain i can get at the time as that will make more of a difference to me than whether the bike is 'on trend' with it's ETT/reach/whatever measurements!

You see - this ^^^^ just comes across as yet another 'why my bike choice is superior to other people's' post. Thought I would agree that some people on here dislike stuff purely for being popular/mainstream. I'd love an Enduro Expert Carbon but there's no way I'm going to spend £3500-£4000 on a bike.

Dismiss it based on empirical personal preference and a healthy dose of logic and people clamour to rip you apart.

You're confusing your own personal opinions with objective facts. It's a common problem on here. Everything about bikes is so subjective and when confirmation bias comes into play too it's impossible to make the kind of sweeping statements you are making with such certainty. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.....

I'd love to put a geometry 'expert' (wearing a dog's cone collar from the vets) on some bikes. Find out if they really can feel a horst link! Ask them the steering angle and rake!

I'm not convinced everyone would know the wheel size.

Exactly - if there was a way of doing blind bike testing I think we'd quickly see how much pseudo-technical bollocks gets talked about bikes.

@ grum, but if you follow your logic it would be impossible to explain why you chose a particular bike, political party, religion, football team ect, without implying your choice is superior and everyone else is wrong.
Deviant can wax lyrical about his Giant all he likes. It doesn't suggest my choice was wrong only that for him he bought the right bike.

No but it's the fact that he's suggesting that he's just bought the bike he likes whereas other people are buying them for spurious reasons.

so many riders want to be different for the sake of being different, there's an element of 'look at me' about their bike choice....'see how much of a connoisseur i am?!'

Maybe true in some cases, but by saying 'look I don't care about all that stuff see' it's just another fashion statement: 'I'm cool because I don't care about being cool'.

I agree inverted snobbery exists on here in spades 😆 but so much of the talk is about boutique bikes, there's probably a feeling you have to somehow justify a more rational choice.

i haven't read all 8 (!) pages, but what about a liteville 301?

New Five might not be the cheapest option, but it's a bloody mint bike, especially for the Pennines and year-round riding. Robust, versatile, sorted angles, proven and ridiculously fun to ride.

Capra - a mate has one and it's nice enough. Not massively lighter than the Five though really, even though it's carbon. Pivots everywhere. And I wouldn't touch the Boss version with a bargepole - disaster waiting to happen.

Edit: just seen this, too. Might be a rare thing, but YT's response/solution is possibly something worth bearing in mind if you don't like being bikeless.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/yt-capra-woes

Don't they service Boss here in the UK now though ?

Its the e13 wheels Id not want on it.

i haven't read all 8 (!) pages

You haven't missed much, just me and JimJam bickering.

Nothing particularly constructive, so I wouldn't waste your time.

This thread has made me want that Specialized Enduro posted up near the beginning. Thanks thread.

On-One Codeine 27.5 £2000 - seems like a bargain

[img] [/img]

Trimix - happened to be in a shop about 2 days ago and they were bemoaning the crappy support for the broken Boss forks they were fixing. Seems some things never change. Personally, I reckon Fox and Rockshox are good enough for anyone really, unless they're obsessed with bling or only ever ride their bike inside a NASA clean room.

This thread has made me not want to change my S Works Enduro, never understood geometry at school and reading all this hasn't helped. It does everything I want it to do and I think it looks good.

[img] [/img]

Crikey, that Spesh must be quick, you've got a parachute on your back!! 😯

Defo not Enduro!

😉

Its a crash mat for when I fall. Abigales is faster but I cant work out why. Might it be the geometry.

[img] [/img]

Waiting for the chute to open.

😆

You know when you ask a question and then part of you wishes you hadn't bothered? 😉

What you need is a Cotic Soul. Ticks all the boxes.. I think..

Thanks tomaso for actually suggesting something along the lines of what I want - I'll look into the Patrols...

Codeine looks ok but by **** its ugly. Marzocchi forks must be an even bigger unknown than BOS are (which, incidentally, I've been running for about 2 years on my Five with no maintenance and no issues - they're awesome and I'd have another BOS equipped bike in an instant).

DaveyBoyWonder - Member
You know when you ask a question and then part of you wishes you hadn't bothered?

I wish you hadn't bothered!

It's all your fault, I'm sure me and JJ would have got on like a house on fire if you hadn't asked such a ridiculous question!

It's clearly ridiculous because the YT is the only possible answer!

(JOKE!!!!)

Codeine looks ok but by **** its ugly. Marzocchi forks must be an even bigger unknown than BOS are (which, incidentally, I've been running for about 2 years on my Five with no maintenance and no issues - they're awesome and I'd have another BOS equipped bike in an instant).

I know Marzocchi lost their way a bit a wee while ago, but aren't they back on the up?

I've cancelled my order for the small Capra - not ordered the medium yet but I'm still planning to.

Not massively lighter than the Five though really, even though it's carbon.

How much does a 5 weigh? There's some seriously optimistic build weights going on in this thread if you ask me: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-five-buildsweights-show-and-tell

Thing is, for those of us who have to pay RRP for Orange ( 😉 ) you're talking about paying at least £1000 more to get a similarly specced bike aren't you? (and yes I know spec isn't everything).

And call me shallow if you like but I just thing 5s are a bit ugly and I like the looks of the Capra, especially in that blue. I know it shouldn't matter that much but if I'm gonna shell out a load of money on something I want to look at it and thing 'yeah!' not 'mmm I suppose it looks quite good for filing cabinet' 🙂

How much does a 5 weigh? There's some seriously optimistic build weights going on in this thread if you ask me: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-five-buildsweights-show-and-tell

To be fair, it's not just Orange specific, it's near enough every brand on here 🙂

I'm sure some people weigh a bike, then take ~4lbs off it & think, yeah, that sounds plausable.

(24.5lb Reign owner)

I jest.

Bloody hell lads. Group hug?

Anyway, let me first say that the last 8 pages have enlightened me no end. I'll address the elephant in the room (sorry Jim). I first encountered JJ many moons ago when I got back into mountain biking on a local MTB forum. Who's this knob jockey, I thought. Then I met him on his bike, and a thoroughly nice chap he is! And despite what some people think, he is very knowledgeable. He jusy has his own special way of telling you.

I agree with JJ in principle. I once owned a Commencal Meta. Bought it because it was a good offer and it had double expansion front and back. My God it had a short reach, and a back end more loose than George Michael in the outside lane of the M25. I looked at the numbers before getting a new bike. Makes sense. Long wheelbase, short(ish) chainstays, slightly slacker HA, steeper SA, longer reach. Bajaysus it felt a lot more comfortable than the Meta. So in summary, a review of the numbers compared to what I was used to paid dividends. However, the Meta felt fun on the steep bits and when it got a handy rowdy, and that was because it was short and a bit wobbly. So, horses for courses. I prefer the Mega because it is more comfortable more of the time, and yellow is faster than white.

Nice shout on the Transition. Had a spin on one and it felt really nice. Climbed like a goat too.

st colin
Bloody hell lads. I'll address the elephant in the room Jim). I first encountered JJ many moons ago when I got back into mountain biking on a local MTB forum. Who's this knob jockey. Then I met him. And despite what some people think, He's just special

Wanna fight 😀

Bare bellies in the car park!

Ha, that Vitus on the first page looks kind of cool - don't know much about them though. I haven't checked out the kinematics or the geometry yet. 😉 Only 135mm travel at the back though.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-escarpe-pro-suspension-bike-2015/rp-prod124011

I wouldn't worry about the 135mm on the back.

I'm still astonished that people think you need 160mm travel.

It's not about 'need' though is it. 🙂

I do sometimes do uplift days and take my bike to the Alps/Pyrenees plus I'm a big lad so it feels nice being on a big bike. That Vitus is probably more suitable for most of the riding I do though.

This thread has made me not want to change my S Works Enduro

Indeed!

I'm still astonished that people think you need 160mm travel.

Oh God that's whole new willy waving argument!!

"Depends what you ride and how gnarly you are"
"I ride park so 160mm isn't enough"
"If you're a good enough rider you don't need that much travel"
"I can ride everything in the UK on a hardtail faster than most people on full sus"
"Needing more travel is making up for being a crap rider"
"I obviously ride more techy trails than you"
"If you don't need 160mm how come <insert a famous 'enduro' rider name here> rides a 160mm bike, is he a crap rider then???"
"There isn't a trail in the UK that needs 160mm"
"Get on trend you beardy Luddite"

etc etc ad nauseam.

Funnily enough my mate got a new Enduro a few weeks back. It's small in size but big in lovelyness. I had a little spin on it and even though it was far too small for me to pedal while seated, it felt perfect when standing up (i'm 5'17") I'd go for something like that if i was in the market (only larger obvs)

p.s. JJ is a **** in real life too 😛

bellerophon - Member

I know Marzocchi lost their way a bit a wee while ago, but aren't they back on the up?

If going out of business then getting asset-stripped by Fox is on the up, then yes. (to be fair, for Marzocchi it might actually be)

Re weights- don't know about the latest Five but the last model was a wee bit porky at just under 7lbs with air shock. Not terrible. Capra frame is claimed at about 5.75lbs with shock, don't know how honest that is. Remember when comparing with the Capra that it's a longer travel bike. Also that it's quite a lot stiffer, if you care about that.

Neither's really the sort of bike you should be weightweenying about tbh!

Evening. I've had my Commy AM V4 since earlier this year. It's bob-on. I run it with 26'er wheels as its personal preference but it rocks. Slack, long and low. What more do you need?

If going out of business then getting asset-stripped by Fox is on the up, then yes. (to be fair, for Marzocchi it might actually be)

Ah didn't know that, thought they just gone down hill. Plushest forks I've had were Marzocchi.

This looks like quite a bargain but it's a bit fugly.

http://www.last-bikes-shop.com/epages/62262325.sf/en_GB/?

Do like that Coal- my Herb was a bit too clever for its own good maybe but a very impressive bike. Also, points off for making it Boost but points back on for making it backwards compatible.

Do not like 180 PM rears though. My Traifox has that, wish it didn't.

I meant to link to this:

http://www.last-bikes-shop.com/epages/62262325.sf/secc880559bd2/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62262325/Products/001466/SubProducts/001466

The Coal is much nicer looking though (which is the most important thing)

I do like those Last bikes. Remember Dirt used to really rate the Herb. Coal looks much betterer and probably more 'on trend' 😉

Northwind: I really like post mount rears. 180mm rotor works for me and II do away with an adaptor. What do you not like about them?

FWIW I have a Canyon Strive Race and am very happy with it (despite shapeshifter issues). I would buy another. Bought for value, looks, geometry, and cos I'm a Barel fanboi. I looked at Capras very hard. Put off in the end by poor wheel options and shorter reach. Glad I didn't get a carbon one now after what seems like a fair few frame cracks on the YT Facebook owners page.

DeeW - Member

Northwind: I really like post mount rears. 180mm rotor works for me and II do away with an adaptor. What do you not like about them?

Takes away choice; I'd put a 160 on mine if I could.

I'm still astonished that people think you need 160mm travel.

Even on a thread entitled "what new enduro bike?"

Without stating wheel size suspension travel and rotor size is meaningless.

Is the OP enduro?

https://www.polebicycles.com/pole-bikebuilder/#/

Hey rickon if you're still reading where can you get the Enduro Elite for £2500?

Can I just add that I've been riding an Enduro Expert (29er) since March. I've been riding it as much as I can since getting it and have only swapped out the back tyre and saddle. I'm yet to find anything it isn't good at. Whilst I'll admit I haven't owned loads of bikes it is by far the best bike I've ever ridden and I can't recommend it enough. It's also a bike thats converted me to 29ers.

Some big discounts on Intense bikes at Wheelbase. Carbine 29ers etc

Ive just bought a 2014 Stumpy Evo 29er, have I done the wrong thing! It's a big brand, with an own brand seat post & wheels, and it's all black so doesn't even have cool graphics.

I'll be even slower than usual won't I?

And 300...

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Filth - going on the list: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/nukeproof-mega-275-290-first-ride-2015.html

29" flavoured:
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27.5" flavoured:
[img] [/img]

Those new nukeproofs are really sweet looking. Be good to know exactly what all the spec/price/colour/weight options are.

Some more info here: http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/nukeproof-launches-new-megas/

All this 'forward geometry' stuff that is now trendy that means that apparently the Capra is 'too short' and therefore rubbish according to some - I was briefly looking over some stats for a new Giant Reign and it just looks like the geometry of my Pitch from 6 years ago. I'm no expert though so maybe I'm missing something.

It has a slacker head angle but I put 36s on mine which slackened the head angle anyway. Other than that I can't see any massive differences. Was the Pitch ahead of it's time or is there just a bit of 'emperor's new clothes' going on here?

For me a medium Pitch, even with 50mm stem and seat forward, feels a bit too long, but the small felt too small - so I would have thought a medium Capra would suit. Gonna get to swing a leg over one this week anyway so we'll see. The Pitch is amazing fun and super-stable for blatting down virtually anything really fast in a straight line, but it didn't feel as manoeuvrable in the corners as smaller bikes.

I've got to say that currently the Nukeproofs are possibly top of the list on looks, spec and price. Very favourable review on PB and ST about their ride as well...

I've never seen a 29er that looks so 'right' either. Maybe I'll go for proper wagon wheels!

That bike^^^ up there? top of the list on looks?!?!?!

I was briefly looking over some stats for a new Giant Reign and it just looks like the geometry of my Pitch from 6 years ago

I dunno if you have the reach figure for your old Pitch? I'm not familiar with it but it could well have been ahead of its time.

The key things about the Reign for me are...

- It's longer than most bikes, which really suits my body shape and makes it very stable
- It's got a nice low BB - 325mm by my measure
- Chainstays are 435mm so it feels reasonably nippy still
- Slack and solid so very confidence inspiring

That Mega 29's nice. And loooooooong! Maybe the longest production 29er I've seen? My Trailfox is pretty bloomin big but stock it's giving away about 20mm to that thing. If they can get the weight decent then it's going to be a big deal I reckon

Well I have a new reign, and my friend has a 2011 Pitch and they are absolutely nothing like each other! The reign is much lower and 2deg slacker!

I'm out and about now so CBA checking but I was looking at stuff like reach, chainstay lengths, TT lengths, seat angle, wheelbase etc. Mostly talking about length/reach though as that seems to be the big issue for most. And as I said my Pitch was made a fair bit slacker by the longer forks I put on it (as quite a few people did). I'm happy to be told I'm wrong but it didn't look that different to me on a quick glance.

Reign looks really nice just seems a bit heavy.

Reign looks really nice just seems a bit heavy.

I weighed mine at 32lbs with pedals, supergravity tyres and a not-light wheelset.

I was surprised it wasn't heavier, am confident of getting it down to 30lbs with a few planned spec changes. I think that's an OK weight but I appreciate it'd still be too heavy for some.

Reign looks really nice just seems a bit heavy.

My Team is listed at 27.5lbs, and I've gone tubeless, added lighter bars, grips and stem.....

I should have said 'heavy unless you spend lots of money'.

I weighed mine at 32lbs with pedals, supergravity tyres and a not-light wheelset.

It's not crazy heavy and I'm sure in reality it's fine but part of the point/justification of getting a new bike is I fancy something a bit lighter. I suspect my Pitch (coil 36s and coil shock) must be at least 33/34lbs so I reckon with something around 28-29 lbs the difference will be quite noticeable.

So in a complete about turn, I'm now looking at a one of the very last 26" Alpine 160 frames (if I can find a good one in January). Long, low, slack, not heavy and all my parts which I kind of like (Devilles, Hope/Stans wheels, Renthal stuff etc) will bolt straight on. And even getting a stealth reverb and maybe some new brakes, it'll cost a matter of hundreds and not thousands to get a bike with more skill compensation!

Hardy to srague from a bikenomics point of view. A new bike won't be a few thousand £ better than that Alpine.

I should have said 'heavy unless you spend lots of money'.

Alpines are awesome tbh. I reckon they'll be one of the slower depreciating 26ers just because they kind of sum up what big 26ers are for, and they're a perfect home for a lot of old kit- lots of unburstable wheels, forks etc.

But, will it take a Stealth reverb?

Hmm, not sure about the stealth routing now actually - thought they did but no mention of it on the website. Ah well - even more money saved as I can just use my existing Reverb - even better!

By the way in case anyone is interested or might end up doing similar, I've done something daft/YT/my CC company have been really **** annoying.

So after everyone told me that the small would be too small and I did some more research and the internet seems to almost universally agree, I decided to change to a medium. They told me the only way they can do this is if I cancel and re-order.

What I didn't realise is that as well as the charge YT take for using a credit card, the CC company take a hefty fee (£80) for converting to euros. When I cancelled, they then charge [i]another[/i] £80 to process the exchange back. With exchange rate differences that means I end up £200 down with absolutely nowt to show for it, and if I wanted to order on a CC again I'd have to pay the £80 CC fee AGAIN.

However - I've lodged a complaint with the CC company that this is ridiculous and currently they have refunded me the £200 - but I spoke to someone from YT today and it sounds like they will be contesting it.

I realise some of this is my own responsibility but it still seems mental that it might cost me so much to change the size of a bike that's not even getting delivered for a month without it costing me such a silly amount of money - and all because their sizing guide is widely considered to be totally wrong. Meh.

Medium black ano Knolly Chilcotin on sale here;
http://shore-lines.co.uk/knolly-chilcotin-frame

Someone, I think on the pinkbike Capra thread, suggested using Transferwise.
[url= https://transferwise.com/ ]Here[/url]

How much!!....that's just plain greedy!!

That doesn't inspire customer confidence in using YT if this is the case.

Well currently I have the £200 back so all is well but it's possible that YT are going to contest it. It's a bit confusing but in summary be prepared to pay a lot more to pay on CC (for me £80 plus YT's 80 euro fee) and make absolutely sure you've got the right size (which probably means ignoring their size guide and trying to test one or trawl through 800 pages of a pinkbike thread).

To be fair to the guy on the phone he was helpful and clear and his English was excellent but there seemed to be no flexibility at all. We'll see what happens. I've ordered a medium as a direct payment (not on CC) but not paid for it yet - will probably cancel that if they decide to be arses about this.

I do also blame the CC company for not putting these extra charges on during the ordering process. How hard would it be? I guess I should have checked but I expected maybe a small fee for the purchase, not a huge fee for the purchase and a huge fee for the refund (which I shouldn't have had to do anyway).

Thanks cooie, will be going down that route I think.