[Closed] What new 'enduro' bike?

Meanwhile, back in the real world of riding bikes for fun.

Trimix - Member
OK, put a sock in it you two, or take it outside......

Whilst I don't recognise an admonishment from you, you're not my Dad!

I'll accept this spat is going nowhere, I think he's an arse and I'm sure the feeling is mutual, that's not likely to change so it is time to move on.

I think you're an arse. Let's move on.

Ah just like the old days! 🙂

Each thinks the other an arsehole. Because of a bicycle. We are funny old creatures aren't we?

So..... much as I've enjoyed this little exchange. I got a reply from YT (pretty good response time) and they basically said if you ride bike parks a lot and want a 'play' bike get the small, but if it's for general riding: 'going on a tour or going really fast', get the medium. Seems reasonable - I'm gonna go with the medium.

Thanks everyone.

I got a reply from YT (pretty good response time) and they basically said if you ride bike parks a lot and want a 'play' bike get the small, but if it's for general riding: 'going on a tour or going really fast', get the medium.

Yeah but wadda they know? 🙄

Now I'll move on 😉

6 pages, a handful of recommendations and evidence that YT can answer emails pretty quick.

Cheers all :S

DaveyBoyWonder - Member
6 pages, a handful of recommendations and evidence that YT can answer emails pretty quick.

Cheers all :S

So what are you buying then?

Evil Insurgent naturally because they're head and shoulders above the rest.

So what are you buying then?

A road bike 😉 Kidding...

Still genuinely no idea. The Orange features highly still - may see come March time whether Orange have any ex-demo/closeout models on their website as the Five/Alpine/Segment all remain on the list.

The Capra is still there and it'd be great if I grab a go on grum's to check how it feels. If it feels as good as the spec looks on paper its hard to ignore.

Just browsing Stif's website too, theres the Bronson C for £2700. Factor in a Reverb and theres change from £3k. Seems like a possible option?

A mate has just bought the Bronson, he rates it having come from a carbon Spesh enduro 26"

It is a bit 'pink' though.

DBW - the Bronson comes with a Sektor fork at that price though, add in a Pike, the Reverb, maybe a different shock and all of a sudden it's about £4k

www.stif.co.uk//bikebuilder/bronson-c-v2/142/0/size-2,colour-264,shock-63,preset_kit-276_326/

Its got one of those front mech things as well I think :S

Heckler?

www.stif.co.uk//bikebuilder/heckler-27-5/58/0/size-2,colour-248,shock-64,fork-300,groupset-276/

Heckler I think is venturing away from long and slack.

That said, I'm sure I read somewhere that angles and stats written down on a website mean sod all and actually riding them is what counts.

That said, I'm sure I read somewhere that angles and stats written down on a website mean sod all and actually riding them is what counts.

Leeeve it!! 😆

Not hugely low or slack (but 66deg is easily slack enough), but still worthy of consideration is the Giant Trance SX.
Here's one reduced to £2K with pikes, monarch plus, XO1, guide R's. Giant dropper and wheels but you could upgrade both and still have change for a riding holiday.
http://www.bicyclechain.co.uk/productdetails.asp?productid=32466&gclid=CjwKEAiA9uaxBRDYr4_hrtC3tW8SJAD6UU8Gy0VHwqpSx7FBeyttuOJYDwig8DHl4ayOY968Hgb89RoC_HPw_wcB
Travel adjust forks, it's a seriously versatile bike and easy to get a demo on.

I don't think the Bronson is overly long DBW, the reach & stack on the L Bronson is about the same as the M Five. But, like you say, they're just numbers and who can tell what they really mean without riding them...... 😈

I know someone who can provide a detailed description of exactly how it will ride without troubling yourself with a test ride. All you need is the geometry numbers and the ability to believe anything you hear?

😡 Damn you Woody2000, I was doing so well moving on.

I'm just shit stirring, ignore me 🙂

😉

I'd still buy a Banshee Spitfire if I was shopping now. Long, slack, low and you can swap your 26 parts over or build it up 27.5 if you prefer. Really good suspension design - pedals like a really efficient 140mm bike but charges through the rough and takes the big hits like it has a lot more travel.

poisonspider - Member

I know someone who can provide a detailed description of exactly how it will ride without troubling yourself with a test ride. All you need is the geometry numbers and the ability to believe anything you hear?

So now you're trolling me? But a while ago my obtuseness was infuriating. That's nothing like what I was saying at all. Do you need a reminder?

Get a room you two ^^^^^^^

The Capra is still there and it'd be great if I grab a go on grum's to check how it feels. If it feels as good as the spec looks on paper its hard to ignore.

Nae bother but I won't have it for at least a month. You can finally show me some of these Halifax trails. 😉

I'll bring my 5 and we can compare and contrast DBW and grum 🙂

I quite fancy this...

[url= http://www.last-bikes.com/products/coal-trail-2016.html ]Last bikes Coal[/url]

So now you're trolling me?

I don't thinks so? A gentle jibe perhaps. In fact the 'joke' was on me really as I fell off the JJ wagon first. 😳

Do you need a reminder?

Get a room you two ^^^^^^^

Ok, I really need to move on now.

jimjam - Member

That's nothing like what I was saying at all. Do you need a reminder?

As i understand it (and i used to work in an understanding shop so i'm pretty much an expert on these types of situations), you said what [b]you[/b] would do when looking for a potential new bike. You ruled out (among others) a Capra based on [b]your[/b] criteria - it has shite geography, poor suspension harmonics and a flight deck only suitable for a T-Rex, [i]and[/i] as a bike is less than the sum of it's parts. Another poster who bought a Capra (but doesn't care about the things you care about when choosing a bike and values 'pro spec' over a frame that's designed for humans) got upset at this and now thinks you are an arsehole.

Well no wonder. Tell him his bike is awesome you arsehole!

Oh yay another internet tough guy/expert has arrived. 🙄

Euro

As i understand it (and i used to work in an understanding shop so i'm pretty much an expert on these types of situations), you said what you would do when looking for a potential new bike. You ruled out (among others) a Capra based on your criteria - it has shite geography, poor suspension harmonics and a flight deck only suitable for a T-Rex, and as a bike is less than the sum of it's parts. Another poster who bought a Capra (but doesn't care about the things you care about when choosing a bike and values 'pro spec' over a frame that's designed for humans) got upset at this and now thinks you are an arsehole.

Well no wonder. Tell him his bike is awesome you arsehole!

Lol. Well thanks for clearing all that up there, I was starting to wonder.

grum - Member

Oh yay another internet tough guy/expert has arrived.

He's joking grum.

Oh yay another internet tough guy/expert has arrived.

I'm no expert on bikes or the internet i'm afraid. My speciality is in the understanding of things. I understand you also have (or will soon have) a Capra. Ah well, you can always sell the frame on i suppose 😛

He's joking grum.

He's right grum. I'm joking
(Takes the fun out of it a bit when you have to say you're joking when you're joking).

This bit is serious though. If you ever post an eye rolling emoji in my direction again i will **** YOU UP!!!

I'm not sure how many times I've said this, a few already.

Deep breath...I don't care if people think my bike is crap, its geography (sic) is incorrect etc. I don't care, I really don't care. I've cared more about things I've never even thought about than I care about that.

My point is (I'm losing the will to live even typing this for umpteenth time);

I have an issue with the premise that someone can judge a bike's handling (any bike, not my bike, any bike, your bike, his bike, your Mum's bike?) by simply taking the static geometry figures and then (wait for it..) calculating (in their head) a series of extremely complex interrelated dynamic and kinematic (definition: [i]kinematics studies the trajectories of points, lines, other geometric objects, and their differential properties such as velocity and acceleration[/i]) equations to determine how a bike will actually ride.

Nobody, of sound mind, can possibly believe this?

It is simply an opportunity to try and sound like some kind of bike genius amongst a sea of people who just like riding bikes for the hell of it. It's an ego trip.

If it isn't and JJ is gifted in this repsect, please enlighten us with a detailed description of the process. Please make reference to the dynamic/kinematic principles being applied. I don't mean vague, 'oh I look at the design and compare it to my bike' guff.

That is the issue. Nothing to do with the Capra. By making it an issue of me throwing my toys out because someone has slighted my pride and joy etc is a smoke screen to hide the fact that he's talking nonsense.

This bit is serious though. If you ever post an eye rolling emoji in my direction again i will **** YOU UP!!!

Give me strength. 🙄

jimjam, what were the geometry figures on the Lapierre you disliked so much, which you said is just like the Capra?

Imagine this movie but instead of horses, it's bicycles. And instead of Robert Redford, it's JimJam.

[img] [/img]

You can be Kirstin Scott Thomas if you like (i've not seen the film so no idea if they shag or not - they probably do, she's always at it).

Not sure about The Horse Whisperer...The Horse[i]shit[/i] Talker perhaps.

I have an issue with the premise that someone can judge a bike's handling (any bike, not my bike, any bike, your bike, his bike, your Mum's bike?) by simply taking the static geometry figures and then (wait for it..) calculating (in their head) a series of extremely complex interrelated dynamic and kinematic (definition: kinematics studies the trajectories of points, lines, other geometric objects, and their differential properties such as velocity and acceleration) to determine how a bike will actually ride.

How in all **** did you get to that from what I wrote. Lets quickly recap. You took umbrage at my suggestion that people buy Capras on spec, then crow about how great they are. You countered

poisonspider
I bought it because it had good reviews and was killer value for money. [b]Isn't that what most people consider when they're buying a new bike?[/b]

to which I replied

Well I can't speak for most people but the first thing I consider is geometry. Second would probably be kinematics/dynamics, how the bike rides. Componentry would be almost irrelevant because I usually throw everything out and put my own bits on. Reviews would be equal last as 95% of them tend to be bullshit these days. I used to put more credence in reviews until I saw some of the reviewers riding and realised they were pretty crap, that and a marketing manager explained to me how they could and would collapse any magazine just by removing their adverts if they didn't get favourable reviews (believe that if you want).

So, just to elaborate on that statement. For you. What I look for when contemplating a purchase. Geometry . Believe it or not, it's important and believe it or not people can interpret geometry charts they are there to be looked at. If they were irrelevant manufacturers wouldn't publish them. After many years it's possible to develop an emperical preference with regards to these seemingly crazy and irrelevant numbers. For example, if I'm looking for an "Enduro" bike and see that the geometry more closely resembles an XC bike I can dismiss that bike out of hand. That's not saying "I know exactly how that bike will ride" it's saying "that's not the geometry I want".

You've tried to laugh this off, sneering and belittling the idea that anything can be gleaned from geometry or ".07 of a degree or 1mm will make the bike feel awful". Of course it won't. But compare current geometry to 1999 and tell me which is better. You don't often hear people buying a new bike and complaining that it doesn't descend like their old 90's hardtail.

So assuming the geometry is suitable, and based on what [b]I know I like[/b], I'll start to consider how the bike will ride. As I said, I like Horst link bikes (many people do, including you) so that's a known quantity to me as I've owned 6. If the bike's suspension design was less familiar to me then I'd have to ensure I would get on with it. I'd try to arrange a test ride if possible. Radical statement, I know. Please mock me for this. [i]If[/i] that's not possible, but I still want to buy the bike, and I'm worried about spending thousands of pounds in error I would have to try and understand how the bike works using all the information available.

At no point did I say I would look at the geometry and produce dyno graphs with my eyeballs. Of course I'd have to use google. Of course I would have to use calculators, graphs....any info I could to try and anticipate any undesirable traits, like the Glory had, or like the old Reign had. I don't have £3000 or £5000 to waste on a bike so I would do everything I to avoid a mistake. Crazy again, I know.

You've also tried to mock the suggestion that magazine reviews were less than bullet proof. Again to recap, I stated that I had seen some journalists from a well known magazine riding. I was not impressed. Furthermore, I myself, had an actual conversation with someone who was in charge of a substantial advertising budget who implied that magazines were heavily dependent on that money, and several would likely collapse if he withdrew it (say for a bad review). I actually had that conversation, in real life. I didn't say it was YT, I was saying to further illustrate why I don't put much importance in magazine reviews.

Any better?

Jimjam, what was the geometry of your old bike that was so bad?

Remind me what was wrong with the cheap specialized again?

Dave, Woody, Grum, I'll bring my 2012 Nukeproof Mega in size Small. I will understand though if you are too embarrassed to let me hang with my hideously unfashionable top tube length.. I'm sure somebody once told me that it wasn't the size that counted, can't remember if that was JJ or PS...

Jas - stop it now, someone is actually going to explode soon 🙂

chiefgrooveguru - Member

Jimjam, what was the geometry of your old bike that was so bad?

I think [url= ]this [/url] is it. It's all completely irrelevant though.

Any better?

Not really.

Why is there no emoticon pulling its hair out an in tears of frustration?

Sigh:

In the fewest words I can manage so there's little for you to misunderstand;

I never said geometry isn't important.

It's nothing to do with the YT.

[i]It's the dynamics/kinematics bit that is nonsense.[/i]

I have to say when people using words like 'kinematics' my BS detector starts twitching. Maybe it's just because I'm ignorant but....

Dave, Woody, Grum, I'll bring my 2012 Nukeproof Mega in size Small. I will understand though if you are too embarrassed to let me hang with my hideously unfashionable top tube length..

How tall are you? 🙂

Give me strength.

I think he was joking!