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A bit of context. I've had two bikes for ages (currently a 26" Rocket and 456 Evo 2). But since MiniMonkey v1 came along almost seven years ago, I've not been riding so much. Now, a lot of my riding with her.
I want to consolidate those two bikes into a single, easy to manage bike.
It needs to be fun riding...
- Local twisty singletrack in the woods
- Easy trail centre routes
- Natural trails in the Moors and the Peaks and the Dales
- Possibly occasional enduro type trails
- The odd trip to the Lakes
- Maybe the odd trip to BPW
I'd like to get back to the Alps some time, but MiniMonkey is a ways off that yet.
I'm thinking a decent modern hardtail should cover most of that quite nicely.
I like the look of some of the long, low and slack stuff - but will I hate something that's too long and low and slack? Or will I adjust and like it everywhere?
Recommendations and suggestions greatly appreciated...
You don't mention budget, so I'd spin Planet X's roulette wheel of inevitable discount and get an On-One Scandal.
I wouldn't go for a hardtail given requirements for lakes, bpw and enduro riding.
IMO you'd be best served by a long travel trail bike/light enduro bike and 2 sets of wheels/tyres. One lighter set for xc and trail, and one heavy duty set for more gnar stuff.
That's what I would do, for sure. I have a transition sentinel which is the sort of bike I'd be looking at, or something like a Santa Cruz high tower is in a similar category.
I'd be taking a close look at an Epic Evo myself.
A very versatile bike.
Mrsstu bought one as an XC bike and it's proving a lot more capable than she thought it would be. Even on our trails up here in the Tweed Valley.
I'd ride all on that on my Moxie Mx3. Definitely LLS, but also a very comfy all dayer.
Modern hardtails will take everything you throw at them and more. I suppose it's down to comfort and serviceability - you lose a bit of comfort on a HT, but gain a lot in ease of maintenance.
I'm riding similar kinds of trails on a Vitus Sentier 29 hardtail and it does a pretty good job though I'd like it to be a little bit longer/slacker and more stable at speed on steeper stuff. I don't really do much rocky/tech riding though but it coped pretty well at Wharncliffe which I guess would be the closest I've got to the Peak/Lakes type terrain. Modern 29" hardtails are pretty capable, mines not even that progressive but still feels good to ride on a lot of stuff. I do think a 140mm ish trail FS would probably make for a good all-rounder though just for comfort and that confidence boost that FS can give.
Prior to this I had a Vitus Sommet 27 (170mm enduro bike) and didn't really get on with it for most of my riding. Made all the easier stuff seem really slow and boring and it was a slog to ride around on.
Something Downcountry.
I've lusted after a Transition Spur for a few years now but struggling to justify the cost of one.
This summer I picked up a mint Spesh chisel FS. I could happily live with it as an only bike with two wheel set ideally.
Very capable, very fast on easier trails, highly recommend!
If you like your rocket, then I'd look at a cotic jeht or flare max.
Jeht would be overkill for most of what you state, but handle everything else with ease.
They are lovely riding bikes, climb really well.
Canyon Neuron? I have one and love it!
Santa cruz Tallboy for £2999
...was going to be my suggestion too. I've got one equipped with a 140mm fork and it's just what the OP describes: a great all round MTB. Light enough and with geometry to keep twisty singletrack fun, while capable enough on chunky downhills. Not called the DHer's trail bike for nothing. If I didn't already have my Geometron for Alps trips I'd feel comfortable taking my Tallboy instead.
Or, given existing stable is 2 x HTs and you're mentioning a modern hardtail, then the best I've owned was a Cotic BFe Max. Such a fun bike and still happily pootling around with the kids. I had mine at 140mm fork but can obviously take bigger.
No mention of budget etc but I'd definitely get a full sus. Not sure I could cope with a hardtail as my only bike anymore as much as I love them. In a recommend what you own approach, I've got similarish requirements and have picked up one of the cheap Orange Switch 6s on their website and just about finished bolting it together for £2500 and thats not really scrimping on parts - full XT, 36s, Burgtec kit, Hope wheels etc. 160mm front and 145mm rear mullet setup. Going to use it for everything I used my Five for (odd enduro race, BPW, Alps, lots of up and down tech type rides etc).
I'd have thought a short-travel trail bike too, and that Tallboy looks good. But you'll know better than us if a hardtail really would suffice.
The only thing I'll say, is a "hardcore" hardtail can feel more sluggish to pedal about than a lively trail bike.
OK, that's not the only thing, I'd also point out that it's a hell of a time to be buying secondhand bikes - so you could grab a bike to try out and change for little loss if it's not quite right.
For the Alps and BPW you’d be able to do more on a full sus. You could be having just as much fun on a hardtail, but from my experience you’d be battered.
For the rest of it, IME something with 120-140mm travel either full sus or hardtail will be good. I love my Ragley Marley with a 140mm fork.
As above really, depending on budget I'd go for Specialized Chisel FS, Specialized Epic Evo or Transition Spur. I have a Spur built up light but I've no doubt a fork and wheel change would make it just about perfect for you.
.... Or one of those discounted Santa Cruz.
Ooh some good food for though there.
Budget is not mega set - probably second hand, maybe 2k tops but if I can keep it lower that's a bonus.
Should probably point out that bigger trips will be rare - maybe once or twice a year. And I've ridden a lot of Peaks and Lakes stuff on a hardtail before.
Jeht or Flare were definitely on the list, I'm a bit of a Cotic fanboy. Also prefer steel for no reason other than I think it looks nicer.
Is 29" the way to go or is 275 still reasonable today?
I had a Norco Optic and it was a beast, climbed really well, didn't feel too big on easy trails but really worked on big trail stuff as well.
I sold it to buy my son a Transition Sentinal frame but wish I hadn't as he's ridden it twice I think since I bought it in Feb....
Full 29 all the way, for your riding.
If you end up going full sus, then a steel frame might be adding a bit of weight and limiting your options considerably - for not much real world benefit.
Maybe you can get a try on a Flaremax though? Could be right up your street.
Now. I love my Hardtails!
I used to have only HTs, and always used to think I could ride anything I'd want to ride on a HT. And, until around 4 years ago, rode all the sorts of stuff you mentioned.
But, there's no escaping the reality that a FS bike is more capable / confidence-inspiring / gives a greater margin for user error / comfortable. My riding / confidence has improved since having a FS, and I'm willing to attempt things that are more difficult/tech/steep than I'd have attempted on a HT. A better rider than me could no doubt make better use of a HT than I can. (One of my aims this year is to ride my Moxie - which is the best HT I've owned/ridden - down steeper/more challenging stuff, and push my skills/limits a bit more)
I could use (one of) my Hardtails for Lakes/Peak/BPW, but I wouldn't choose to now.
I don't think there's a massive difference in 'all-day pedalability' between eg a steel HT with a decent travel fork and proper tyres and a light trail/AM bike. Choice of tyres, in my view, make the biggest difference.
My Aeris AM is 160 front & rear. It's light enough for all day rides, but capable enough for anything I'd ever contemplate doing. So, I'd go for something like that, with 2 wheel/tyre sets.
Interesting... My Rocket feels overkill for a lot of stuff I ride, but actually having a bit of talent compensation for when I do get to chuck myself down still stuff might not be a bad idea!
Might see if I can get down to a Cotic demo day some time, though that could get a little bit spendy. Had a spin on a mate's Aether 9c a while back, that felt like it could maybe be a sweet spot to be fair. Although clearly not steel.
That Tallboy does look like a bargain though!
Having various hardtails - one which I use for 'proper riding' (Big Al), I reckon I can ride most of what I do on the the FS'ers. But I wouldn't necessarily choose to.
My 'big bikes' are both ebikes - sold my Capra when I got my first one, as it was too similar and wouldn't get used.
I recently decided I wanted something inbetween, which was different (and nice) enough, that I'd choose to take it out over the other choices.
So I bought the frame/shock and built this up, which you've probably seen before...
140/150mm "all mountain" bike.
Orange five, traditionally. These days a Stage/switch depending on your wheel size choice. theyve got some of the nicer looking frames in the sales at the moment, i would get one before they run out. I wouldnt buy one of the new ones, theyre all gopping.
https://orangebikes.com/collections/factory-bikes
As another Cotic fanboi, I have ended up with these as my do it all mountain bike 🙄....
General riding HT, and a skill compensator cos I'm fat and old!
I have just kind of done this - I had 27.5 Rocket & Soul (big Cotic fanboy).
My wife over the past couple of years has been getting into a bit of xc racing on her 27.5 Whyte 806.
Then she bought a Trek Top Fuel in 29 flavour & I could no longer keep up. So I did what anyone sensible would do & decided it was time for a 29er. Only I couldn't bring myslef to go full 29, so picked up a Saracen Ariel in muller flavour (I ride a Medium).
It's brilliant, I still can't quite keep up, but the bike is great for local riding, longer all day rides & I have even done a pedal up day at BPW - where I set a load of PRs on the way down. Despite previously having taken both my Rocket & Soul there & had much fun.
I am a late convert to 29er, & I hate to admit it but they do roll better. It feels like an extra 20mm of suspension over the 27.5.
So my answer to your question was to get something in the 'Down Country' bracket - either HT or FS & it'll be ridiculously capable. And if you go to the Alps hire a bike, it'll save yours from taking an absolute battering, along with the hassle of transporting it out there.
Snobz gonna snob, but if I was coming back to mountain biking after a while off and had about two grand to spend, I'd be getting one of these:
https://www.halfords.com/bikes/mountain-bikes/voodoo-canzo-pro-mountain-bike---l-frame-273355.html
@flyingmonkeycorps what size are you? Collectively we can start looking for bargains for you.
Personally, I'd rather have a two cheap bikes than one expensive one... I still wouldn't want to be without a hardtail, ever, but as the years pile on I think I'd regret only having a hardtail... especially when it comes to riding alpine trails blind. I know that's not helping, sorry.
Hahaha I kinda knew there was no right answer tbh. Maybe I should just keep the Rocket and the 456 and get a bigger shed...
(Ride mediums 'cos I have stumpy little legs for my 5'11" height, but the ML Aether 9C felt ace for my comparatively lengthy arms).
I'm not necessarily looking to buy right now, just figuring out options.
Ride mediums 'cos I have stumpy little legs for my 5'11" height
Bikes are mostly differentiated on length (reach) rather than seat tube height these days, so if you're more torso than legs then a large could be better.
But even a medium will feel much longer than your current steeds of course.
I'm going through this in a sort of half-hearted way myself. Currently own two bikes; a very capable hardtail and an Enduro derived full suss, I want to downsize to just the one bike, and I've come to the conclusion that a short-ish travel 29er FS is probably the way to go, rather than a HT despite like you most of the riding I'll do is local and not that technically demanding, I want to be able to ride in the Lakes and BPW, and so on and I reckon a FS just gives you more options without having to second guess yourself, or without worrying about battering yourself.
But, there's no escaping the reality that a FS bike is more capable / confidence-inspiring / gives a greater margin for user error / comfortable. My riding / confidence has improved since having a FS, and I'm willing to attempt things that are more difficult/tech/steep than I'd have attempted on a HT.
This is definitely true. However riding full sus definitely starts to bring in other bad habits IME. There's something about the back wheel of a hardtail bouncing all over the place that makes me much more careful about choosing braking points and getting my weight distribution right.
One thing that I'll say, and have said many times before on this forum, since having the choice between a 150/160 full sus and a 140 hardtail, my hardtail gets ridden a lot more than the full sus. Just because for most UK riding it's more fun.
I love a hardtail (I'm building a new one currently) and yes they are great for a lot of riding but if I truly was going to just have 1 mountain bike - it would 100% be full suspension, short-mid travel, and 29" wheels.
This is absolutely stonking for 2 grand, in the right size too for the OP I reckon:
I did Enduro races and XC races on mine with suitable tyres - very versatile, light, fast and strong. And now 'cheap'.
With the current secondhand price of bikes I'd try to pick up a big slack 29" hardtail like my Moxie or a BFe or Bird Forge, something that's been built up with a good fork (the longer the travel, the more a decent damper matters), and see if you like riding that for everything. And if you realise you'd like some rear suspension on the gnarlier stuff then get a mid-travel 29" full-sus (of which there are absolutely millions!)
When riding less challenging stuff I prefer the engagement of a hardtail vs a full-sus - on my singlespeed Moxie I get less annoyed by the lack of time to get to gnarlier trails since I had children because it feels more fun on the easier stuff but never feels out of its depth when I find something more techy. I also like the climbing challenges that a singlespeed adds (but I may be weird?)
This is absolutely stonking for 2 grand, in the right size too for the OP I reckon:
Blimey, I'm surprised they still have that in stock - I think I posted it last week.
Recently sold a medium one myself, and I'd agree Large would be the size for OP.
Very good budget spec too, with perfectly adequate dampers and excellent SLX for the important shifty bits.
Just might want a wheel upgrade in the longer term.
To be honest, if I could only have a single MTB these days, it would have a motor still… That said I assume the OP means unpowered conventional MTB, so…
It definitely wouldn’t be a hardtail… A mid travel (read somewhere between 120-150 I guess) full sus bike that climbs and descends well yet is also fun and engaging on the less rowdy stuff would be where I’d go… Or it certainly was back in the days when I only had space or budget for one MTB, and rode a variety of terrain like you do…
I’m just about to sell an “as new” Mondraker Raze that would fit the bill… Serious bit of kit it is too! Bought it on a bit of a whim earlier in the year thinking I’d get back into more conventional MTB but just riding eBike only these days and have still got my old XC bike for local routes when I don’t need a motor.
Drop me a message if it was of any interest… Spec is same as this, but won’t have the Mavic Crossmax wheels on it as they’re on one of my eBikes so have a choice of other wheels, or you could have it without any wheels for £2k…
https://mondraker.com/uk/en/2023-raze-carbon-r
Nah I'm definitely not after an ebike. Not particularly anti them, just don't really fancy one.
That Orange is very tempting, I must admit.
But a nice simple hardtail is also still appealing. That Moxie looks laaaaaavely.
That Orange is very tempting, I must admit.
But a nice simple hardtail is also still appealing.
You can't get more simple a full-sus than an Orange - and they also ride the most like a hardtail IMO (for better or worse).
Read a couple of reviews and see if you think it could suit your riding style.
I also like the climbing challenges that a singlespeed adds (but I may be weird?)
I like it too, but I may also be weird 🙂 what I like about singlespeed is it forces you to attack everything rather than sit and spin, so it's perfect for those shorter rides where you want to get the most out of it and not faff about with anything. Not sure I'd want one as my only bike but I definitely like it on a hardtail for less hilly terrain.
I actually tried a singlespeed for local rides and hated it. There's too much flat stuff where I was just spinning out all the time. Quite liked the climbing challenge, and trying to carry speed on the descents.
Paul's Cycles still have GT Sensor ST's in carbon for £2k or less.
To be honest, if I could only have a single MTB these days, it would have a motor still…
Yeah, I wouldn't buy another long travel trail bike without a motor these days.
I would be looking at a cotic flaremax or Santa Cruz tall boy. Both will do everything you need
There's a medium Cotic Flare in the classifieds.
Modern 29er hard tails are so much fun and so capable that's probably still what I'd have if I only had one bike. I have a Bird Zero 29 and a Cube Stereo and yes the Cube is capable of more but it scares me as it's much more capable than I am, it's easy to get out of your depth quite quickly. It also requires more maintenance, changing 16 bearings was a major pain in the hoop.
Good question. I ride a hardtail always have. Currently running a Bird Zero 29er with a 140mm Fox 36.
However on a recent trip to Antur I got properly beaten up. The stars aligned and I had 2k to buy a second bike. Got one of these. If you can fit a large I'd highly recommend it. Only thing you'd need to budget for is a wheel upgrade as the standard rear wheel and hub is a bit crap.
https://www.rmcycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/gt-sensor-carbon-pro-le-sea-green-2024__23304
Edit: Only had it a week, so taking it to Grenno on Sunday to wrap myself round a tree and see what it's capable of. I expect I will be the limiting factor, not the bike 😀
It looks like this, but there's only one of them and you can't have it...
So many folks saying that a hardtail is a no go, but in the traditional spirit of recommend what you bought, I’d go with a Cotic Solaris Max. I live in the lakes and typical riding is rocky, steep at times, hike a bike but I’m not after super high speed, and my Solaris just makes me smile, looks after me and is such a practical easy to live with bike. Was out today near Patterdale and was just an absolute blast.
At that price point, 29er alu hardtail, 130mm fox 34 or z2, 64ish HA. 80% as good as an FS going down, better everywhere else. Better spec for the money and cheaper/easier to maintain all weathers. The upside of an FS isnt worth the slog of having to pedal the additional weight around.
I have a Nukeproof Scout and a full fat ebike. The FS analogue bike doesnt get a look in.
To be fair trips to BPW etc are probs gonna be so far apart they're not THAT much of a consideration.
There's a medium Cotic Flare in the classifieds.
Looks like a bargain that. Brand new basically looking at the pics...
However on a recent trip to Antur I got properly beaten up.Ha ha, I’ve done the same thing and feel your pain. Great fun though.
Completely, loved it.
There’s a certain swagger in strapping a hardtail to an uplift trailer.
I took my Trailstar on many an uplift 🙂 had my Blender at BPW a few times as well. Can't say I wasn't jealous of all the nice big bikes though.
However on a recent trip to Antur I got properly beaten up.Ha ha, I’ve done the same thing and feel your pain. Great fun though.
Completely, loved it.
There’s a certain swagger in strapping a hardtail to an uplift trailer.
Even more when you overtake the StormTroopers on 170mm gnarpoons. 😎
That Flare does look nice but not really that different to my Rocket to justify the spend.
There's also a very nice looking 18Bikes no7, although I would prefer 29" I think. Hmm.
(For clarity I don't think I've ever overtaken anyone on a bike)
We have a Ti HT in the garage, which my other half was given for the TNR - occasionally I ride it to remind myself how sh*t it is compared to my Epic8.
The only thing it does better is a total lack of care for it, which translates to a set of bearings once a year. If the choice of riding a great bike and a terrible one is a set of bearings, and I still chose the HT, I’d probably give up cycling.
XC bikes have better geometry that some bikes I raced EWS’s on pre CoVid - these 120mm are remarkably capable & fast as hell. With a decent set of tyres, they can double as a good trail bike - in that sense it’s probably the most versatile bike I’ve owned.
This is my perfect mountain (ATB) bike, makes me smile every time I ride it, makes others smile too!
There’s a certain swagger in strapping a hardtail to an uplift trailer.
No one noticed or cared.
Ride whatever you want.
Just don't think your a hero for it.
Aren’t uplift tracks perfectly manicured with all those nasty leaves blown away?
My Cotic Rocketmax is also in the classifieds…..
I think you need to work out whether the occasional BPW/Alps/Enduro-type rides are something that is likely enough (or often enough) to sway your choice.
If it's more of a "I'd really like to do this and don't want lack of a suitable bike to be an excuse" then I'd be tempted to keep your 456 Evo and change the Rocket to a mid-travel (140-ish) 29er trail bike in your favourite flavour.
If it's more of a "I like the idea of BPW and Alps trips, but realistically it's not going to be in the next year or two" then I'd consolidate to a short travel full suspension, something like the Flaremax suggested or similar (120-ish rear travel, 130-140 front with some nice relatively quick trail/XC tyres) and have a set of chunky wheels or just tyres on standby for if the bigger days out do materialise.
A swagger that no one notices is not a thing to be jealous of. 🤣
Ohhh your RocketMax looks bloomin' lovely @rico70. If I was riding in the Peak regularly like I was a few years ago I'd be well tempted by that.
Actual riding for the next year will probably look something like this:
Trips to easy trail centres with MiniMonkey v1 (she's six, will be riding an Orbea Laufey 24 when she turns seven in Feb - can do most of the blue at Sherwood. Hardtail territory.
Laps of the local woods. Mostly non techy singletrack, a few jumps here and there. Grand on a hardtail.
Odd weekend rides - maybe once a month or so - in the Moors, Dales or Peak (all within a couple of hours or so of home). I've ridden them all on a hardtail before perfectly happily. I prefer singletrack to wide rocky Peak stuff anyway. Maybe trips to Greno or Wharncliffe but again I've ridden both (slowly) on a hardtail.
Weekend trips away - maybe a couple over the year. Could be BPW or the Lakes, could be somewhere else. I reckon this is where I'd miss rear suspension the most. I've done some riding in the Lakes on a hardtail (Borrowdale Bash, Back o'Skiddaw, Grizedale bridleways etc) and loved it, though I reckon bigger cheeky stuff would probably be off the table. Never done BPW on a hardtail but tbh I'd sooner be in the hills anyway.
Alps is more of a long-term pipe dream a few years down the line when MiniMonkey is a bit more confident and would probs be as part of a family holiday to start with rather than just a biking week. So hiring or buying a full sus if that materialises would definitely be a possibility.
I think writing that out I've convinced myself that if I'm gonna change to one bike, a moderately chunky hardtail is probably what I want (if not need), with a view to maybe adding a meatier full sus later if I start getting into the chunky stuff more.
But I have listened to all the suggestions on here, honest. Thank you all!
I don't think that's a bad plan at all! If it tickles your fancy Alpkit/Sonder have some great deals on the Signal at the moment and I think they have demo's available from their stores which may be near you?
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-signal
To be fair trips to BPW etc are probs gonna be so far apart they're not THAT much of a consideration.
Last time we went (me and my teenage sons) we took two hardtails and one FS and were on the blues (their first time there) and maybe one easy red.
One of the constraints to progressing onto the reds during the day was the two (older school) hardtails. Bikes that are good for local stuff to us but honestly out of their depth at BPW once off the blues.
I realised that if we went once a year it would be worth just hiring an appropriate bike for each of us to open up more trails and reduce the battering!
Yes it's spendy but...
- It's the right kit for the place - in our case that is kit that's total overkill for our normal riding
- No mucking about with bike racks at 6am
- No worries at the services having to leave someone with the car
- Save a fair bit of fuel (45mpg Vs 60+mpg with no bike racks) and the car is nicer to drive without 50+kg of bikes and racks sat on the back or roof.
- Low faff at home time, drop off bikes, change and drive away.
YMMV