[Closed] Unpopular "standards" that you actually quite like...?

'dual release' is useless as the lever pivots the wrong way so pushing with a thumb is just awquard.

I find using my thumb to change up works just fine.

Quicker to bolt on/off

Because you change disc rotors a lot?

aracer - Member

Quicker to bolt on/off

Because you change disc rotors a lot?

Quiet day? 🙄

centre lock requires a special tool and needs to be done up gorilla tight to avoid slop meaning the special tool has to be held on with a qr or bolt and a big spanner to undo it, 6 bolt requires a standard allen key and is not done to ridiculous tightness so is easy to remove so long as you coppaslip the bolts.

6 bolt easier to undo, lighter, cheaper, simpler,

i beam saddles and rapid rise mechs for me and crank bros pedals!!!!!
i also have a mix of 31.8 and 25.4 bars on my bikes and dont notice any differences

6 bolt requires a standard allen key

Nope.

I find using my thumb to change up works just fine.

Maybe it's just being used to SRAM then, the SRAM felt intuitive, the shimano one I still can't figure out if i'm supposed to be reaching under/over/arround the big paddle. And when I get my thumb to it, it's moving at 90deg to the direction I want to push my thumb.

6 bolt requires a standard allen key

Nope.

I've soem that take allen keys, some use torx, either way there's one on my multitool, there's not a casset lockring tool!

TandemJeremy - Member
6 bolt easier to undo, lighter, cheaper, simpler,

Plenty of folk round the bolts or have them seize. Avoidable, but it still happens. Not always heavier or more expensive either, and "simpler" is up for discussion also.

No such issues with centrelock, which does not need to be done up "gorilla tight" either.

In use they both work fine.

<Jazz Club>

Nuages

</Jazz Club>

6 bolt requires a standard allen key
Nope.

Depends I think is correct - I have both Allen and Torx screws holding on 6 bolt rotors, bet someone has got plain old little bolts forced by an emergency and only Wickes being open or something.

If centrelock was free, Id have it. As it is, I'd need eight new hubs and eight new rotors, and they'd have to be shimano (shit) or DT (expensive) hubs.

I-Beam - I liked this until I discovered the Reverb.

1.5" Steerer Stuff - I like having my tough frames with 1.5" headtubes as I've managed to buy the following cheap:
Forks: Manitou Travis, Fox 36 Float RC2, Marz 55 RC3 Ti
Stems: Thompson Stems x 2, Gravity Lite, Truvativ Holzfeller
Headsets: Chris King x2

Hammerschmidt is another unpopular "standard" I like 8)

Ran rapid rise for a couple of years, now back to 'normal'.

Don't pay attention to the wheel sizes, have they changed? 😀

centre lock requires a special tool

Tell me, what of this "special tool"??? 😕

Personally, I like I suspect everyone else, just use a Cassette removal tool, which I already had anyway, as does everyone else I know, as this is what Shimano designed it to be used with.

Oh, and you mentioned about the enormous weight of the nut that is used to hold the rotor on... I was bored last night, and had one in front of me... How heavy? 10 whole frigging grammes! That's massive that is TJ... HUGE in fact!

The nut does need to be done up pretty tight (30-40Nm iirc) to stop any slop, but that's a piece of the proverbial given my cassette removal tool fits directly on a 1/2" drive ratchet, a pretty long lever in itself, the other "lever" being the outside diameter of the wheel. In use I've never once noticed any slop when everything is assembled correctly, and never had any troubles fitting or removing them.

Also, another reason why centrelock is better in general... The rotors are stiffer! They all have this nice ally spider which is several mm thick, onto which the stainless rotor bit is pinned. They are much more difficult to bend than a conventional 2mm thick stainless 6 bolt rotor.

On the carbon bars front... People DO NOT buy carbon bars because they flex! You been sniffing something? People buy carbon bars either cos they're lighter for the same (or greater) stifness, or for their slight vibration damping properties. Of course you could make carbon bars flexy if you wanted to, but I've owned a couple of sets of Easton carbon bars in the past, and flexy is not a word I'd use to describe them!

On the argument about motorcycle bars Vs MTB bars. Like TINAS, I put a lot more force through my MTB bars than I ever have done riding any motorbike (though I don't ride MX granted), it's nothing to do with how much force you apply through steering input, it's more to do with the repetitive harsh blows you keep incurring. I've hit a number of potholes at speed on a motorbike, but then it's also got a 120mm wide front tyre and 5" travel forks to help there, my MTB might have the same fork travel but its tyre is less than half the width (ergo 1/4 of the volume) and I hit obstacles much bigger than a pothole on it frequently. 22mm bars on motorbikes is a bit of a hangover, as on MX bikes they run them with a brace anyway (and about 5mm wall thickness) and the extra weight on a motorbike is largely inconsequential. Clipons on a road bike anyway are so short they're stiff enough regardless, but a set of Renthal MX bars is say 600g or so, whereas the equivalent MTB bar with 31.8 bulge in the middle can be as stiff and strong yet will have half the wall thickness and weigh approx 300g. Would you notice a 300g weight saving on an MX bike? I doubt it... And that's the point...

I wish that 12mm rear axles were on every bike, just for the peace of mind rather than any nebulous stiffness arguments.

Inclined to agree actually, having had QR wheels done up very tight, fall out of the dropouts on one bike before! Couldn't work out why either, think it was a shoddy QR skewer... Anyway, now that Maxle and all its variants are here, a bolt through rear is no slower than QR IMO so bring it on!

I see no conceivable reason to move up from Std QR, or a 1 1/8 stearer. Unless you're hucking off the top of buildings. Or maybe just want to look like you do

I've noticed big differences before going from QR fork to 20mm axle, even on short travel forks. I wouldn't run a QR fork again personally. I'm less convinced on the larger steerer front though, mainly cos what's the point in having a whacking great steerer tube, but then a really thin crown with two relatively spindly 32mm stanchions coming out of it? Bigger stanchions would be required to get the required stifness, but that adds weight/cost/friction etc. and also looks out of proportion on anything short of a freeride bike.

Anyway... Let the [s]argument[/s] [i]discussion[/i] carry on... 😉

Love Rapid Rise. Changing to easier gears under load really works for me

Will hang onto 9 speed as long as I can for that reason

Personally, I like I suspect everyone else, just use a Cassette removal tool, which I already had anyway, as does everyone else I know, as this is what Shimano designed it to be used with.

That's true, if you only use QR hubs, the 20mm ones have a different tool.

I'd quite like 142x12mm (or 135x12 as long as there's a lip to line the axle up with like forks) dropouts on my next bike whenever that happens, just looks like by far the best solution, and any stiffness is a bonus.

English threaded bottom brackets in proper metal frames.

I also like standard rear qr hubs.

And IS disc mounts.

the casette removal tool is the special tool. I have one cos I am a tool geek - although not every cassette tool will actually work cos of the internal diameter / depth - one of mine will not work with the centrelocks I have

as for bars - the

slight vibration damping properties

Can anyone honestly say they felt a 25.4 bar flex too much but a 31.8 didn't? I have never noticed flex in a bar that was detrimental

IS disc mounts? I agree - I far prefer them. slotted mounts upset me and using an adaptor and another pair of bolts does as well. Post mount is like fingernails on a blackboard to me unless you can direct mount and even that only turns the volume down.

as for bars - the

slight vibration damping properties
of carbon bars is flex.

No there is a difference between damping and flex.

Metals generaly have some elasticity, and when the load is removed they give the energy back.

CFRP (or any other FRP) dampens this as the initial bending is the same as for the metal (but with a bit of damping as well, juast harder to notice/measure), but the 'rebound' is slowed so it doesn't vibrate.

Canyon have a good graphic on their site explaining the differences between their metal, CFRP and the bassalt fibre seatposts.

If you made a ruller from CFRP it wouldn't twang (as much as a plain plastic one) on the edge of a desk.

IS disc mounts

That's true, if you only use QR hubs, the 20mm ones have a different tool.

Yes but a bottom bracket spanner is hardly obscure either.

I really like Centre lock rotors too.

They are a genuine impreovement over 6 bolts in terms of rotors stiffness and ease of removal. I'd have them on all my bikes if my hubs were compatible

They are a genuine impreovement over 6 bolts in terms of rotors stiffness

Genuine question, how are they stiffer and why does that make any difference?

square taper BB
8 speed
ceramic rims

basically I want to go back to 1997...

I have very low standards.. I'd probably be some sort of vagabond/hobo if Mrs Yunki would let me get away with it..

the smell alone would make me unpopular, never mind the inebriated threatening behaviour and casual criminality..

Genuine question, how are they stiffer and why does that make any difference?

Posted this above, but it's probably due to the ally spider that is several mm thick, mating with a nice fat splined interface. Only the pad track bit of a centrelock rotor needs to be stainless steel and 2mm thick, on XT and XTR at least, most of the rotor is ally and quite chunky and stiff. Ergo, much better.

Also, and I suspect I'm one of a very few here, but I've had a near disastrous issue with 6 bolt in the past. OK, I was doing a week's descending in Morzine/Les Gets, and riding a lot, on my 5" trail bike with only a 160mm rear rotor. Anyway, one day had been braking so hard for so long, I turned the rear rotor a bit blue. Cruising along the road after our final descent of the day, my mate notices my rear rotor is floating about, so yells me to stop. Turns out, I'd got everything so damned hot, the 6 bolt mount on the hub had obviously expanded somewhat as all the (threadlocked) bolts had come loose and nearly fallen out!!! 😯

OK, so that's an extreme situation, but I much prefer the design of centrelock cos it just seems like a much better engineering solution, rather than "it's what we've always had before so it must be alright" which is what 6 bolt is to me.

of carbon bars is flex.

I think you've been sniffing the resin they use to make the bars TJ! MASSIVE difference between their ability to absorb/dampen vibrations, and flex. It's the same difference between the spring and the damper on your suspension forks. Think of carbon bars as being a bit like a damper (though obviously much less effective) but without any spring. They don't move at all, not a bit, REALLY stiff in general in fact. But they can absorb small amounts of vibration.

It's the same on road bike frames. Why is Carbon so popular there? Firstly Carbon is so popular cos it's easy to make it very light, whilst still very stiff. Secondly cos it absorbs more vibration than ally does, and to an extent Ti and steel (though Ti and steel frames are inherently more flexy).

I'm with you on IS disc mounts though. Takes longer to set em up obviously, but once set, that's it. Done... No movement ever. Post mount (via an adapter!) is a backwards step IMO. Sure, it's quicker to get it somewhere near being right for a mechanic, but it's a poor solution long term. Annoys me that the whole market went this way!

Another one for Rapid Rise and Dual Control levers, got them on both my bikes and will be quite upset when I have to change them.

mboy in asking peoples opinions then arguing they are wrong shocker!!

Holy crap there's loads of weirdo's out there.

+1 for the dual control with rapid rise. XTR £90 for the set... "Get in there!!!!"
Something I never say when I am changing gear.

mboy in asking peoples opinions then arguing them of being wrong shocker!!

And...?

I started the thread to promote discussion... I find it interesting, but hey, you may not.

We each have our own preferences... But I also know why, in this case, TJ is wrong...

I'm not arguing about how rubbish I think rapid rise is, or SRAM mechs and shifters... That's all subjective.

Dual Control fan here too. Got them on my supermarket special 2007 Decathlon Rockrider 8.2 (2007 lx dual controls).

Lots of people slag them off, but I find them easy to use and never seem to accidently shift when braking, which seems to be the biggest comment/concern from riders who see my sporting them out on the trails.

TandemJeremy - Member

Motorcycles put far more stress thru thier bars and use skinnier ones

But then, a Renthal 7/8ths bar weighs more than twice as much as a mtb renthal bar, and 3 times as much as my monkeylite dhs.

9mm skraxle for front hub. Stiffer than a 9mm QR. Would be enough of an upgrade in stiffness for most trail riders instead of the newer 15mm standard.

I'd go for 15mm if buying a new bike at his point, though.

I switched from a set of 9mm qr forks to some 36s with a 20mm axle, and they're definitely much stiffer fore and aft. How much of that is due to bigger stanchions versus massive axle is debatable, but I find that the complete confidence that there is no way my wheel could possibly come out lets ride faster without those niggling little doubts in the back of my mind.

Open ended quick releases are just a bit sub-optimal for mountain biking, and I look forward to the days when they're a niche option only.

Open ended quick releases are just a bit sub-optimal for mountain biking

Nonsense!

raisinhat - Member

I switched from a set of 9mm qr forks to some 36s with a 20mm axle, and they're definitely much stiffer fore and aft. How much of that is due to bigger stanchions versus massive axle is debatable,

Nope, not debatable at all, it's all because of the stiffer legs. Axle size doesn't change fore/aft stifness at all

... since everyone else has just taken it without mention, can I just ask:

brassneck - Member
<Jazz Club>
Nuages
</Jazz Club>

I mean, I very much approve but have no idea what it means (I do know what "jazz club" means; why nuages ?)

Rapid rise on a road bike is grrrreat, by the way

Posted this above, but it's probably due to the ally spider that is several mm thick, mating with a nice fat splined interface. Only the pad track bit of a centrelock rotor needs to be stainless steel and 2mm thick, on XT and XTR at least, most of the rotor is ally and quite chunky and stiff. Ergo, much better.

Yes, I read that last time, but........

Shimano 6-bolt rotors are ally spiders too, so just as stiff.

And while the alloy carrier design might be stiffer, in what way is stiffer better? Most of the time if I drop my bike disk side down the rotors twang and bend (then 90% of the time spring back), I suspect the stiffer rotors are far more likely to crack.

And......

Also, and I suspect I'm one of a very few here, but I've had a near disastrous issue with 6 bolt in the past. OK, I was doing a week's descending in Morzine/Les Gets, and riding a lot, on my 5" trail bike with only a 160mm rear rotor. Anyway, one day had been braking so hard for so long, I turned the rear rotor a bit blue. Cruising along the road after our final descent of the day, my mate notices my rear rotor is floating about, so yells me to stop. Turns out, I'd got everything so damned hot, the 6 bolt mount on the hub had obviously expanded somewhat as all the (threadlocked) bolts had come loose and nearly fallen out!!!

I've turned plenty of 6-bolt rotors blue, especially smaller ones, only one's ever come loose (stripped all the threads out of the bolt holes whilst it was at it. While there's a chance it was heat melting the thread lock or some such, I'm more inclined to believe it was just mechanical ineptitude on my part for not checking them and relying on the thread lock that was probably applied ion the hope factory several rotor removals earlier.

I'm not saying centerlock is bad, just that it's of no consequence to the end user, like slotted brake mounts it's designed purely to help manufacturers build bikes as quickly as possible.

Nope, not debatable at all, it's all because of the stiffer legs. Axle size doesn't change fore/aft stifness at all

I have bombers with the same lower sizes one Qr one 20mm the 20mm is stiffer using the same wheel. (ProII)

Hope's floating rotors have been around for 8 years now and are v stiff, Still got some original ones that are better then any new non floating I have

I was doing a week's descending in Morzine/Les Gets, and riding a lot, on my 5" trail bike with only a 160mm rear rotor.

mikewsmith - Member

I have bombers with the same lower sizes one Qr one 20mm the 20mm is stiffer using the same wheel. (ProII)

Fore and aft? Or side/side and twisting? Axle can't provide any bracing for fore/aft, only from angles.

Gripshift , in fact thumbshifters as well.