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There are loads of "standards" out there that seem to come about for no apparent reason. There are loads still out there for good reason. Then there's those that show promise, but are often unpopular for some reason...
Mostly they're unpopular cos they challenge what people are used to, but I'm interested to hear what you think are actually pretty good standards, that aren't popular in the mainstream... I'm imagining hearing lots of people say rapid rise (which I don't like at all!), 1.5" steerers etc etc.
My personal favourite that nobody else seems to like... Shimano Centrelock Rotors. It's so simple, so effective, so quick and easy to do up or undo, and yet everybody seems hell bent on sticking with 6 bolt which is far more hassle, and relies on the individual doing each bolt up evenly in turn otherwise they don't always run true.
Your thoughts...?
50mm headtubes- ugly but they're the standard that incorporates all other standards, not to mention allowing easy geometry-finagling.
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Shimano Centrelock Rotors.
Probably locked under patent...
Standard appears to be a little misused these days. Gets used instead of "Something I just Invented"
9mm RWS bolt thru hubs - fit standard dropout forks but are a bit tighter and stiffer and still allow you to swap wheels between different bikes. I'd love to know if there's an alternative to the very pricey DT Swiss RWS hubs and the Specialized Stouts.
25.4 bars (and obv stems)
20mm axles
Sub 100mm travel forks on hardtails
8 speed
1.5" headtubes look cumbersome but are the headtube of choice if you want complete freedom in choosing your fork.
12mm rear axles are a pain in theory but they make an awful lot of sense on the trail. Same for UST, Post Mount brakes and crud mounts.
shedfull, I'm with you there...
Yes there are alternatives, Hope do adapters to fit their Pro 2 hubs, Superstar Switch Evo's can be converted too. The thing that gets me is why is it 9mm for the front, but 10mm for the rear? 😕
Probably locked under patent...
Might be, but Formula, Avid/SRAM and others have licensed it in that case, as they do centrelock rotors themselves. As do DT of course, sat here with a DT240S hub I've just built for my bike, and it's a centrelock version (perhaps why it was so cheap)...
LOL @ Northwind's sketch. My thoughts entirely...
Ok, I'll be the first then!
Rapid rise... It just works so well. Yes you have to reprogram your brain a little but being able to drop a gear or two when powering up a hill out of the saddle is sooo worth it.
I never want to go back, if only they did a 10 speed.
Metric.
Surely that will never catch on. What's wrong with furlongs?
cetrelock is heavier and must lead to movement in the mounts. Its a crap idea. 6 bolt is far better
GW, why 25.4 bars and stems? I was a late converter, but lighter and stiffer is better IMO which 31.8 is. With you on the 20mm axles though, why Rockshox have suddenly gone 15mm on everything I don't know!
TJ, go on, explain how a centrelock setup leads to movement in the mounts? The rotors are slightly heavier I'll grant you, but then the hubs can be made a bit lighter to counter that cos they don't need a whacking great 6 bolt interface any more... The overall system weight is about the same for either.
31.8 is not lighter.
Check weights of every bar/stem that was ever available in both diameters if you don't believe me.
mboy - because you need the sliding clearance on the splines. this will always leave a tad of play and thus you need the nut bit (itself big and heavy) to tighten to gorilla tight to try to eliminate the slop
its all about ease of assembly / locking you into a proprietary system. NOthing to do with better qualities.
I have both ceterlock ad 6 bolt and given a free choice would have 6 bolt anyday
31.8 stiffer - but folk like carbon bars for their flex.
Motorcycles put far more stress thru thier bars and use skinnier ones.
6 bolt allows for the bolts to be replaced....
As I expect my hope hubs to last 10years I'd rather not replace them due to the brake interface wearing
I've been running Rapid Rise mechs for a while. It only makes sense if you use a thumb push for both up and down shifts, otherwise you can't easily shift to a lower gear while braking (unless you brake with your middle finger and shift with your index finger). I find using my thumb for both is a bit awkward so I'll be glad to see the back of my RR mechs - not sure why I bought into it originally, but after buying an XTR mech I got an LX RR mech when I got a second bike for the sake of consistency. Just replaced the LX one with a normal Ultegra mech so will have to live with my bikes shifting in different ways until I can afford to replace the XTR - could be annoying.
Love 1.5" head-tubes. Allows you to use any type of steerer or to use head angle changing cups. Look a little out of proportion on some bikes but on my beefy Intense Uzzi VPX anything else would look weird.
Also love 135mm x 12mm rear axles, which I have on the Intense and my Orange 5, but they do limit your choice of wheels a little.
26" wheels
Motorcycle bars, specifically motocross ones are a mere 22.2mm, but they have a cross brace which allows for more strength than diameter alone would suggest. Given that mountain bikers tend to like low rise bars, and balk at weight, cross braces just aren't an option, hence 25.4 and now 31.8. Also remember that while 31.8 bars might be heavier than 25.4, they will also be wider and stronger, and that's a trade off most people are willing to make, especially now that we can have carbon bars.
I wish that 12mm rear axles were on every bike, just for the peace of mind rather than any nebulous stiffness arguments.
Ive just reverted back to 25.4 bars and stem, I also have a set of club roost go fast risers with the brace. I run a RR rear mech too.
Std QR, 1 1/8.
eeeh, I remember when it was all cotter pins and osgears round here
what aracer said. 26" wheels only came about about because thats what were available in the dawn of the sport & now all these numpties claim that anything else that challenges the standard is just wrong.
Dual control.
I love my XTR dual control levers. Don't have RR on them though and it's great.
+1 aracer 🙂
rasinhat - many motorcycles use 22 mm bars without braces that are as wide if not wider than mountainbike bars
Remeber people buy carbon bars partly for the flex in them - and youdo not put huge loadins in steering input into bars
yes 31.8 are stiffer - but is this actually relevant in the real world?
Motorcycles are a totally pointless comparison because they don't need to be anything like as light as bikes.
The point is that the stiffness some folk find essential in an MTB is not an issue on a heavier machine that requires far greater steering inputs
TJ, Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn some spares for you 😆
I beam saddles/Posts.
9mm axles
5 arm cranks.
TandemJeremy - MemberThe point is that the stiffness some folk find essential in an MTB is not an issue on a heavier machine that requires far greater steering inputs
And you might have a point, if motorcycle handlebars were less stiff than mountain bike ones.
whitworth.
Whit/BSF, the joy of watching my brother with 25+ years experience of Pugs try to work with Whit on S1 landies:-) its not like i'd throw in AF reference as well:-) just to help.
took a bit of brain rewiring but love RR mechs
With the bar flex issue, I've always found the stem to be the weak link in the chain - if I ever use the cheap giant stem or weight weenie ritchey WCS stem on a build the bars flex horribly on climbs
I see no conceivable reason to move up from Std QR, or a 1 1/8 stearer. Unless you're hucking off the top of buildings. Or maybe just want to look like you do 😉
Rapid rise... It just works so well. Yes you have to reprogram your brain a little but being able to drop a gear or two when powering up a hill out of the saddle is sooo worth it.I never want to go back, if only they did a 10 speed.
+1, I ****ted my last one on a rock 🙁
It only makes sense if you use a thumb push for both up and down shifts, otherwise you can't easily shift to a lower gear while braking (unless you brake with your middle finger and shift with your index finger)
SRAM shifters solve this nicely, just a shame their mechs are cheese.
It's taking me ages to get my head arround shimano shifters again, they're just not right, and 'dual release' is useless as the lever pivots the wrong way so pushing with a thumb is just awquard.
TJ would have a point about motorcycle bars if they were't either practicaly solid with a cross brace (MX bars) compared to MTB bars to gain some stiffness or clip-ons 9your not going to make a 8" long 22mm tube bend however much you twist it).
Remeber people buy carbon bars partly for the flex in them - and youdo not put huge loadins in steering input into bars
No, I bought them:
* becasue they weighed less than 200g
* looked cool
* absorbed some vivration, theres a difference between a flexy material (Ti) and one that dampens the oscilations. Ride a bike with a long Ti seatpost and you'll see the difference, it's posile to make the post oscilate in time with your pedaling, carbon posts will flex just as much (if you build them to) but they don't give that energy back so it doesn't bob.
motorcycles put far more stress thru thier bars and use skinnier ones.
Find some 200g MX bars (not that i'd trust my wisers on an MX bike, but seeing as it's still me twisting them there's no obvious reason not to). I've never ridden MX but I put a lot more force through the bars on push bikes than I do road motorbikes, think of all the heaving you do standing up and sprinting, put that much force into a motorbike and you'd be in a hedge.
Back on topic:
Do old slide on grips count as a standard? I've recently gone back to foam slide on grips after years of lockons and it's a revelation in comfort.
TJ - do you know for a fact that th 22mm motorbike bars aren't stiffer than mtb 31.8 bars?
As for those centrelock discs that are so terrible: you've been using them for how long, without issue, and haven't changed them?
😀
26" wheels are unpopular?
I've got 31.8 and 25.4 bars. There is no discernible difference in flex (or weight) whatsoever.
I used to like my Dual Control shifter (rear - front was rubbish). But was quite happy to get rid of it when I needed new brakes.
I am pretty sure there is more metal thickness in my motorcycle bars than my MTB so i dont think you can really make a direct comparison.
26" wheels are unpopular?
Yeah so are 29" now, Its all about the 650b and 36ers
I am pretty sure there is more metal thickness in my motorcycle bars than my MTB so i dont think you can really make a direct comparison.
There is a difference in thickness in bars on my mtbs but I still compare them.
There is a difference in thickness in bars on my mtbs but I still compare them.
I think he was refering tot he fact that you can't buy 200g motorbike bars, but you can mountainbike. You can (and some dirt jumpers do) run cut down MX bars in a bmx stem, but they weight a lot!
I prefer the look of 25.4mm bars, 31.8 still looks too chunky to me. Can't say I've noticed much of a difference in stiffness between the two though.
Dual control.
I love my XTR dual control levers. Don't have RR on them though and it's great.
Went riding with someone who I wont name who was doing a long termer test for MBR, the bike had dual controls. He hated them and couldnt get on with them but in the spirit of the test couldn't change anything that wasn't broke - we did offer to make them not work again - he nearly went for it...
As for those harping on about QR I have seem my old QR 150mm bombers flex in the axle round rocks very off putting. 15/20mm is much better
BS EN ISO 9001:2008 is good as it helps to keep me employed
Centerlock brake rotor mounts are so much better than 6 bolt. Still they need to be to make the job of maintaining Shimano cup & Cone hubs more palatable.
cheers drive - why? do you think it better?
Quicker to bolt on/off, nothing negative about their use.