We’ve already established there’s only two riders in the pro peloton who can and they have a long history in riding elite off-road races so your point is not supported by the facts.
Are dazh-facts a thing now?
You've established nothing except that you seem hell bent on not accepting that XC simply does not attract the same caliber of athlete that road racing does. And that road racers are able to dip into XC for the World Champs and Olympics and be in with a good chance of winning against people who do nothing but race XC year round.
For me, this makes XC less interesting than Enduro and DH where there is no one who can dip in just for one or two races a year and be in with a chance of winning. They are 100% without a doubt the best in the world at what they do. For you, this fact doesn't make XC any less interesting.
Both of these things are feelings and as such can't really be proved true one way or the other. I think that's OK. You obviously don't.
GB gold in the BMX freestyle!
I also liked the non-cycling part of BMX called "mopping the course up with towels".
Hats off to the volunteers for that one. 😉
Are dazh-facts a thing now?
So name some other pro peleton riders who regularly do xx races at the sharp end?
So name some other pro peleton riders who regularly do xx races at the sharp end?
I love how there being two riders who dip in and out of the absolute pinnacle of the sport is no big deal.
But yeah, most riders don't bother going back to MTB. Why would they? Egan Bernal started out mountain biking but I'd imagine the risk reward just wasn't worth it. I'm sure there are plenty others.
But anyway, for me two is too many. The fact that they can be competitive despite only doing the big races makes me less interested in XC in general. I'll still watch the World Champs though. If there are any people still just switching because they can't qualify for the road team then some of those features could be interesting.
If two is not too many for you that is absolutely fine as well.
After all these years I'm finally watching a Madison and understanding what going on.
Come on GB, were going so well before the stoppage
Egan Bernal started out mountain biking but I’d imagine the risk reward just wasn’t worth it.
That's quite funny really, although I am not sure we should be laughing at someone hitting a bus and breaking nearly every bone in his body
Enduro and DH where there is no one who can dip in just for one or two races a year and be in with a chance of winning.
Martin Maes? DH rider as a junior, switches to Enduro, at which he excels; rocks up for a handful of WC DH races and wins one of them.
Rachel atherton, destroyed Achilles, given birth, comes back and wins.
jack moir - team politics beyond his control force him to switch from DH to enduro. Almost immediately sees him on podiums.
Harriet harnden has managed national titles in all 4 main off road disciplines as well as EWS elite wins and WC xc u23 podiums.
some people are just good at bikes.
And that road racers are able to dip into XC for the World Champs and Olympics and be in with a good chance of winning against people who do nothing but race XC year round.
I agree and have thought the same for a long time. However when you say "road racers' you actually mean a couple of multi disciplined road racers that you could count on a hand or two with most already doing CX.
MVDP, Pidcock, Sagan and? WVA could no doubt do well but I don't think he has ever entered XC has he?
A lot of the top road racers who do grand tours would probably be useless at an XCO race as they don't have the skills or the different type of fitness required
Back on topic, Kieran Reilly won the BMX freestyle which was nice to see as I follow Tall Order on YouTube and have watched him progress over the last 5-10 years.
Martin Maes? DH rider as a junior, switches to Enduro, at which he excels; rocks up for a handful of WC DH races and wins one of them.
I think EWS used to be similar to XC racing in that it was seen as being a step below DH. It had a reputation as being a place where racers who were passed their prime and racers who couldn't quite hack it in DH ended up.
Martin Maes and others did a lot to raise both the profile and standard of Enduro and now it's close to being on a par with DH, if not entirely on par. Certainly there isn't the feeling that anyone in the top 10 in DH could cruise up to an Enduro and win easily like there used to be.
I think the two way street when it comes to DHers who have won in enduro and EWS riders who have won in DH means they are more or less on a par.
I can't think of any XC racers who have been able to dip into Road whilst staying primarily focused on XC. When Nino Schurter tried not only did he not make much impact on the road but his XC results suffered.
I'm not sure what would help this. Possibly more emphasis on natural technical terrain (which from the course preview of the WC course there at least seems to be some) rather than big but entirely artificial features?
It's not even that I don't want to see road riders pitch up and do well. It's more that I'd just like to see them be forced to give the race more respect by tweaking the format somehow so that constant work on technical skills was a requirement rather than a 'nice to have the time for'.
Let's face it, how much time do we reckon Pidcock and MvdP have spent on their mountain bikes in the last 6 weeks?
Anyway, again, this is what I don't really like. Nobody else is required to also not like it.
Possibly a daft question, but for the XC on Saturday, if I park up in Peebles and ride my bike to GT will I be able to keep it with me as I navigate around the spectator area? Or will I have to leave it in some bike storage area?
Also: the BMX park was pretty good up close, Kevin Perraza was flying, actually all the south Americans were on fire. Jude Jones stomping his 2nd run after taking a nasty slam and blowing his front tyre on the first trick of his first run was great. And all the kids that got helmets / shoes / gloves from the riders were STOKED.
Possibly a daft question, but for the XC on Saturday, if I park up in Peebles and ride my bike to GT will I be able to keep it with me as I navigate around the spectator area? Or will I have to leave it in some bike storage area?
Wouldn't think so. Will be a much more pleasant experience to park it in the bike storage anyway
I worry that the bike storage is a scrote magnet!
Will be a much more pleasant experience to park it in the bike storage anyway
Especially if it's still there when you get back
Especially if it’s still there when you get back
It's a book in/out situation, so would hope it would be fine.
Edit: you aren't getting a bike in anyway, so its storage or nothing: "Please note, no bikes are allowed on venue and should be left in the free-to-use, secure cycle parking. Please remember to bring a lock to secure your bike" from
The bike storage at the DH seemed quite secure, you were given a wrist band with a matching band for the bike, you had to show the stewards both before you could leave. We were amongst the first to leave so I'm not sure how thorough they were once it got busy, but I think it would be off-putting enough for a scrote, especially if you locked the bikes once in the compound.
It’s not even that I don’t want to see road riders pitch up and do well.
For the nth time, Pidcock and MVdP are not 'road riders', they're primarily off-road racers who do the road as a day job because it pays more. No other 'road riders' can pitch up and do well because it's not possible. You're basically just pissed off that the two of the best XC riders in the world are good enough to race on the road too. Why you want to limit them to one discipline when they're talented enough to do both is beyond me.
For the nth time, Pidcock and MVdP are not ‘road riders’, they’re primarily off-road racers who do the road as a day job because it pays more. No other ‘road riders’ can pitch up and do well because it’s not possible. You’re basically just pissed off that the two of the best XC riders in the world are good enough to race on the road too. Why you want to limit them to one discipline when they’re talented enough to do both is beyond me.
I think one of us is pissed off but it's not me.
I'm at the, 'can't we just agree to disagree' stage of this discussion, tbh.
While I do think that your assessment that MvdP and Pidcock's main focus is XC with the road stuff just being done to pay the bills is a bit off, I can't prove it one way or the other so can we just leave it at that?
You think their main focus is XC while I don't.
Bike parking at Fort William was grand, I had no qualms leaving our bikes in it and intend to use again at Glentress.
And as above you've no option anyway, no bikes in venue.
You think their main focus is XC while I don’t.
Just getting this straight, you are talking about Mathieu van der Poel here? The man who back in 2019 or so specifically turned down a contract for the big team so that he could stay at Corendon Circus and race CX for a couple more years, rather than concentrating on road work? And Tom Pidcock, who agreed to sign for Ineos ONLY if he would be allowed to continue racing off-road?
Yes, you're right, their main focus is NOT XC; because they get paid an awful lot of money to ride road races , though maybe not as much as they would if they went to teams where they were ONLY allowed to ride road races. It's a bit different to "road racers [who] can rock up and win MTB events" though
XC also requires a lot of structured road miles to gain the required fitness. Nobody will ever win an elite XC race from purely training off road - no matter how technically challenging you make the course. So a season with carefully chosen road races will both pay the bills and provide the quality miles to make you faster off road. Win win (literally) if you have the core off road skills already developed.
So back on topic, did anyone watch the bmx last night? Was it really only a small crowd, or were there more spectators behind the cameras? Seemed like it should have been an easily accessible evening event, popular with youngsters and should have been busy.
did anyone watch the bmx last night?
Yes I watched it on TV, I thought it was an excellent event and like you was surprised at the small crowd. It was rain delayed a couple of times though, perhaps the weather forecast put people off?
I just feel that enduro and DH are mountain biking while XC is far closer to road racing.
I think you could've legitimately made that comment maybe 5-8 years ago, but since then the courses have changed dramatically, there are drops, jumps some pretty severe sections that while on telly might not look all that on telly but in reality would have most folks getting off to have a look. bikes have steadily increased in travel to cope and some races they're on 120mm full suss bikes. The new SID range (for instance) is a chunky bit of kit these days.
I get that like road, XC is predominately an aerobic event, no one denies that, but the technicality that XC racers are faced with now means that you have to know what you're doing, frankly otherwise you'd hurt yourself.
I'd like to have seen Pidcock enter more races this year as a mountain biker, and I'll bet money some dedicated XC racers are probs now less than chuffed he's turning up for this, but them's the breaks I guess.
Re BMX Park - we along with plenty others were behind the cameras and there was another crowd on the opposite side of the course.
Still quite small despite being listed as sold out as far as I remember.
I think you could’ve legitimately made that comment maybe 5-8 years ago, but since then the courses have changed dramatically, there are drops, jumps some pretty severe sections that while on telly might not look all that on telly but in reality would have most folks getting off to have a look.
That's probably true, but I think at the same time we have to be careful conflating big features with technical features.
When I think of technical I tend to think of unpredictable surfaces and awkward entry/exits to features. Once you've got the technique for doing drops/jumps, scaling up is more a question of having the balls rather than having to use improved technique assuming the feature has a reasonably straightforward entry and exit.
I think the ability to ride big features is a skill that can be learned and will stay with you as it's slightly more of a 'procedure'. I think the ability to ride technical features is more instinctual and has to be constantly practiced to keep those skill sharp.
The technicality in DH courses often comes from the fact they are willing to string tape across fields, stump gardens and unprepared pistes and let the track evolve throughout the weekend. The days of helicoptered in boulders to create artificial rock gardens are mostly behind us.
Saying that, it is possible to get it very wrong with this approach. I remember Fort Bill a few years ago where the woods section was particularly flat and in the wet riders just couldn't get through it cleanly because it was impossible to maintain momentum. Whoever came through it having lost the least time was more a question of luck than skill and from that point of view it was a failure as a race course design.
From what I've seen of modern XC courses the priority is still to maintain the integrity of the course throughout the weekend which, imo makes it very difficult to challenge the riders technically without resorting to artificial technicality like man made rock gardens. I'm sure it can be done but if technicality comes from unpredictable and changing surfaces and if you aren't allowed to have a course with unpredictable and changing surfaces then it's going to be difficult to achieve.
To me, the WC track at Glentress looks like it has a lot of surfaces that aren't fully sealed that you would expect to change throughout the weekend but someone said it's now been 'finished' and looks very different from the preview video. I hope the surface remains as unprepared as possible as that will really give the riders who have spent most of their time on their mountain bikes in the lead up to this race an advantage.
Please - just get a room whilst you debate what the UCI technical requirements are for an XCO/C course.
Back on topic, we're heading down from my folks in Glasgow to Glentress on Saturday, but a little worried that at the moment two out of three park and ride areas are closed, leaving only the one in Innerleithen open. Hopefully the other ones will dry out in time. I'm now thinking that we'll take our 'pub/school bikes' and use those from wherever we end up parking to get to the race, rather than sweat the shuttle buses.
A mate is marshalling all week there, and has said that it's strictly 'no bikes' on site for any spectator (or marshal). No chainsaws either!
Please – just get a room whilst you debate what the UCI technical requirements are for an XCO/C course.
This. Very much this - start a thread, please!
Road Men's Elite TT on Friday - was thinking of spectating around Kippen or Thornhill; does this sound sensible @crazy-legs or anyone local-ish?
Its dry at the moment, and looks to be staying largely dry for the next few days, so hopefully the park and rides will be fine.
It'll be carnage if they don't though!
Road Men’s Elite TT on Friday – was thinking of spectating around Kippen or Thornhill; does this sound sensible @crazy-legs or anyone local-ish?
I'm down on the Para Road & TT in Dumfries now.
Back up in Glasgow on Sunday for the Women's RR.
You get about!
On Friday, Mrs SSS and I will come into Stirling from the East, and park on the eastern side of Stirling and walk/cycle into town to get to the Stirling Castle.
However looking at the route, i have considered standing at the 'Smiddy' tea rooms corner so can watch them coming round from Gargunnock. Be able to get some coffee and cafe while there too....
This. Very much this – start a thread, please!
There is a thread. I think it's perfectly reasonable for @BruceWee or anyone else to express their opinion about the current state of XC/Road riding and the individual racers that compete in it on a thread about XC racing on a Mountain Bike forum.
Road Men’s Elite TT on Friday – was thinking of spectating around Kippen or Thornhill; does this sound sensible @crazy-legs or anyone local-ish?
Kippen's probably good, course comes up the 'diagonal' climb from Arnprior to Kippen before heading down to the flats roundabout. Think that's the highest point of the course save for the finish. Rhubarb & Lime is a nice cafe a few mins walk from there.
Much appreciated @2tyred - a decent café makes all the difference as well!
There is a thread. I think it’s perfectly reasonable for @BruceWee or anyone else to express their opinion about the current state of XC/Road riding and the individual racers that compete in it on a thread about XC racing on a Mountain Bike forum.
This is a thread about the whole World Champs, not just their little argument that isn't showing any sign of coming to an end
No other ‘road riders’ can pitch up and do well because it’s not possible.
You best let Marianne Vos know that 😉
I’m down on the Para Road & TT in Dumfries now.
Back up in Glasgow on Sunday for the Women’s RR.
Are you driving the Doctor's car @crazy-legs?
That BMW did look a little cosy. Should have had the roof down 🤣
Where's the info about the closed park and rides please, for the XCO on Saturday
🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈
At least it looks like there is now a B-line - I think originally there were suggestions the gap was mandatory (although maybe that referred to the one in the woods).
