Right BruceWee. When the UCI champs are over next week, I want to see you going out on the XC course and you to show us the KOM’s you’ve scalped off the pro guys.
She is not that interested in his results, mainly just the aesthetics.
🙂
Mrs TJ was avidly glued to the TV for the TDF for the same reason
Sagan in particular always talked about his preference for MTB.
I remember watching a promo video for the Specialized Diverge that featured Sagan - he was chucking it around like it was a proper MTB. Likewise someone shared a video on here of someone struggling to keep up with Nino Schurter down an alpine trail, even though he was on an Enduro sled. I can't remember the name of the 'chase' rider, but the consensus was that he was no slouch on a bike himself.
Skill level amongst the women is pretty high as well - Jolanda Neff's 'save' on that big drop after Pauline Ferrand Prevot's dick move to brake check her. Neff had to go off-piste and made it look effortless. The skill level in XC racing has improved massively since the 90s.
Sagan is retiring from road riding specificially so he can train for and race the olympics MTB
Are you seriously comparing the skills of a middle aged hobbyist to Pidcock and MVdP? 😂
Nope, I'm saying that, for a professional athlete, gaining enough competence to be able to do the downhills on an XC course should not be an issue.
Therefore, the limiting factor in XC racing is never going to be technical proficiency. It's going to be how many watts you can put out on the climbs.
Anyway, perhaps I've overestimated the general skill level of STW. I'm not a riding god by any means (and jumps and drops have always been a particular weakness of mine) but are you guys sure you still ride mountain bikes?
Mountain biking is of course different things to different people but I can’t help but think this is a ridiculous comment to make
It could well be.
When I focus on improving my mountain biking, it's always with a view to the downhills. Most technique tutorials you'll find will be to do with riding the downhills.
Even getting fitter and improving at going uphill is done with a view to having more energy for the downhills.
I appreciate that mountain biking means different things to different people, but for me the essence is going fast downhill. With XC the focus is always going to be the uphill bit and that's why I struggle to get too excited about it.
Frankly, the uphills in road racing are far more exciting than in XC racing.
Likewise someone shared a video on here of someone struggling to keep up with Nino Schurter down an alpine trail, even though he was on an Enduro sled. I can’t remember the name of the ‘chase’ rider, but the consensus was that he was no slouch on a bike himself.
I remember the video but also not the details. As you say though, the rider/video guy was an acknowledged "good rider", not some random YouTuber looking for 5 mins of fame. He was on his limit to hold on to NS wheel.
Anyway, back to reality after Bruce's delusions, if MVdP wins the XC after winning the CX and road world chamionships that's got to be one of the greatest sporting achievements in history. The Grand Slam of cycling no less. Not that it will get much coverage in the news. 🙄
Anyway, back to reality after Bruce’s delusions, if MVdP wins the XC after winning the CX and road world chamionships that’s got to be one of the greatest sporting achievements in history.
+1.
Much as I really want Pidcock to win, if MvdP got it, it would be an incredible feat.
I'm wondering how much the RR will have taken out of him, if Pidcock's decision to miss the RR in favour of the MTB will give him an advantage...?
I remember the video but also not the details. As you say though, the rider/video guy was an acknowledged “good rider”, not some random YouTuber looking for 5 mins of fame. He was on his limit to hold on to NS wheel.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was Claudio Callori
As you say though, the rider/video guy was an acknowledged “good rider”, not some random YouTuber looking for 5 mins of fame.
I think it was Claudio Caluori?
Edit : What ^^he^^ said!
Nope, I’m saying that, for a professional athlete, gaining enough competence to be able to do the downhills on an XC course should not be an issue.
Well sorry, you're just wrong. As evidenced by the complete absence of elite XC riders who have moved over from the road. Riding in those races is a skill that can only be learned by a lifetime of experience and competition at the highest levels. It really isn't just about power and fitness.
BruceWee, have you ridden an XC course in the last fifteen years? There are races I do where, as a rider who rides the Tweed Valley DH and Enduro trails regularly in addition to big mountain riding, not much of the field can clear the course. Take an event like Ten Under the Ben, or Ten at Kirroughtree, that I've done this year, or the SXC rounds they do at Aberfoyle. There are people doing these on enduro bikes and not clearing the whole thing. My race bike only has 10mm less travel front and rear than my big bike.
The Marathon course included trails used in the Scottish Enduro Series. That's exactly the mountain biking you describe.
Anyway, I loved the road race. I was sceptical about the course but it was exciting to spectate (you saw the riders loads), and the racing was hectic. And I think the result suggests it was a tough enough course- Van der Poel, Van Aert, Pedersen and Pogacar are definitely four of the best in the world. We were on Scott Street and got to see Pogacar and VdP attacking. The atmosphere was great. There was plenty of drama - we had to catch a train so after the penultimate lap we were walking past a pub with loads of middle aged lads outside and there was a roar. We assumed it was football but looked in just in case and everyone had just yelled for Van der Poel's crash!
The protest didn't bother us at all - at that time, the sun was out, the atmosphere was good and I agreed with the point they were making. No one seemed that arsed around us.
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Indeed, yesterday was epic.
Over the Crow in the morning to watch the bunch cruise up a road I ride several times a week, then into town to enjoy the Big Crit. Atmosphere was phenomenal, the footage on the big screens dotted around made the city look amazing and we got to watch the selectest of select groups duke it out on our city streets. The sheer hard-bastardness of MvdP try and take the side door into O'Neills, jump back up and on it and go and put another minute into the other three was ridiculous.
One of my favourite things though was the Vatican City rider who was riding a Dogma(!) yet not wearing the most overtly religious kit. Out-done by the Anguilla(?) guy!
@munrobiker Great photos. That top one captures the atmosphere perfectly. The women clapping and the lads to the left looking on in admiration even though it looks like they don't know who they are were watching. Brilliant.
As evidenced by the complete absence of elite XC riders who have moved over from the road.
Because there's so many XC racers who take a break from the the XC circuit to go and pick up a couple of stages of the Giro and the Tour?
I'm not sure what it is I'm saying that is so controversial.
If we were talking about riders who quit road racing and then dedicated themselves 100% to riding mtb that would be one thing. That is not what is happening.
We are talking about riders who spend 90% of their time racing road or cyclocross who then turn up and are competitive with riders who are 100% committed to XC racing.
I don't think it's a good look for the sport. You guys all think it looks fine so I think we just have to agree to disagree.
We are talking about riders who spend 90% of their time racing road or cyclocross who then turn up and are competitive with riders who are 100% committed to XC racing.
You've just got it wrong. When Pidcock or MvDP rides in the XC and competes with the likes of Schurter et al, it's not an example of a typical road racer turning up and beating the XC guys, it's the other way round. They're primarily offroad guys who have moved to the road. They are a special case, the only road pros who can do it, because they have the experience gained from a lifetime of offroad racing.
The question you should be asking is how is it possible for offroad riders like Pidcock, MVdP and Wout to turn up at a road race and beat the pure road riders?
And I don't know why you think a cross rider shouldn't be able to ride XC. Cross is as - or more - difficult as mountain biking. When was the last time you bunnyhopped an 18 inch plank at 25mph in the mud on a road bike after riding at max heart rate for an hour?
If we were talking about riders who quit road racing and then dedicated themselves 100% to riding mtb that would be one thing. That is not what is happening.
There's no money in the MTB side - they go to road because (certainly up at the top end) there's a decent wage in it.
Very very few MTBers are making anything like the same amount of money as even a basic first year domestique on the road.
Very very few MTBers are making anything like the same amount of money as even a basic first year domestique on the road.
Well, yes, this is kind of my point. Anyone who is good enough doesn't stick around in XC racing.
And they are so much better than the people left behind that they can return to XC racing any time they want and be competitive, despite only spending a tiny percentage of their time on their mountain bikes.
However, I very much doubt any of these riders could pitch up at an EWS round and be anywhere near the front. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think I am.
XC racing is definitely going in the right direction. I remember in 2012 there were road riders who failed to make the cut for the Olympics who simply switched to XC. Mostly from African countries from what I remember, but it was definitely happening. I stopped paying attention by the time it got to Rio.
I'm not sure if it would even be possible to have a high enough skill threshold to make it impossible to enter an XC event without 100% dedication to the craft. Given that any XC race is going to be 80% uphill and dependent on power output.
Look, I'm not saying anyone else has to be put off by the fact Pidcock and VdP are in with a chance of gold despite spending a tiny percentage of their time on MTBs. I'm just saying I'm put off by it.
However, I very much doubt any of these riders could pitch up at an EWS round and be anywhere near the front. I could be wrong about that, but I don’t think I am.
Not sure why you keep comparing XC to enduro or DH. Enduro and Downhill are timetrials with highly specific equipment and courses and require an entirely different skillset. The only thing they have in common with XC is 29in wheels. Asking why an XC rider can't ride DH is like asking why a pro rugby player can't turn up and play premier league football.
Hadn't spotted the Vatican City's choice of bikes - someone clearly has a sense of humour! Great atmosphere out in the sticks; my wife and I ended up at opposite ends of the Crow Road, so we ended up with a decent selection of images, although I'm mildly butt hurt that some of hers are better than mine 😀
Not sure why you keep comparing XC to enduro or DH. Enduro and Downhill are timetrials with highly specific equipment and courses and require an entirely different skillset.
Because EWS and DH are sufficiently different to road racing that you can't make the switch without dedicating yourself 100%. EWS and DH riders are 100% without a doubt the best in the world at what they do.
You can't say the same about XC racing because the best in world are most likely doing something else because they can make more money that way.
Unless it's the World Champs or the Olympics. Then they might show up and win if they don't have something more important to prepare for.
I’m not sure what it is I’m saying that is so controversial.
That XC courses are too tame so that 'road riders' can just turn up and win on them.
And they are so much better than the people left behind that they can return to XC racing any time they want and be competitive, despite only spending a tiny percentage of their time on their mountain bikes.
Tiny percentage? Road off season goes from Sept to Jan/Feb if you do the TDU, etc., Mar/Apr if you wait for the classics. I suspect that riders with a love of XC will be spending a fair proportion of their time in this off season keeping fitness up but also riding CX/XC while the roads are all shitty.
Also - what % of the pure XC dedicated pros are genuinely full time and what does that really mean? It's not a job that you do 8 hrs a day for 5d/wk and of the sessions a dedicated XC pro does how much will be fitness and power and how much will be technique? With the background that TP, MvdP, etc., have in XC then it's not a requirement to put learning hours in, it's about making sure that they polish their long-held skills up. It might be a small % of their whole riding time but I bet it's not tiny, and I also bet it is not hugely different to a full time XC pro, most of which train extensively on the road if not actually compete.
You can’t say the same about XC racing because the best in world are most likely doing something else because they can make more money that way.
Yes but those riders like Pidcock and MVdP have earned their place at the top of the XC pile. They haven't just randomly turned up from the road circuit because they fancied a go at it, they've spent years racing off road so that they can do it. If they can't make enough money from XC then that's a different issue, but all it proves is that they can win in more than one discipline and it doesn't detract from either. I really don't know why you think it's a problem.
If you were going to rank CX, XC and road racing in terms of overall difficulty, road would be at the bottom with CX and XC level pegging (personally I think CX is the hardest but maybe that's just me). It should be no surprise that a pro who can win at XC and CX should also be competitive on the road. Probably the only only aspect of road racing that's harder is grand tours, which probably explains why the offroad guys like TP, MVDP and Wout don't win them.
She is not that interested in his results, mainly just the aesthetics.
I could be in trouble once my wife realises WvA is spending the week in the Hilton one town over from us, and is training on our local roads, he even rode through her parent's village this morning 😁
I race XC and couldn't turn my hand to DH racing at anything like the same level of success. In fact, when I have done it I've gone from near the top to near the bottom. I like to think I'm a handy technical rider, and I ride DH tracks a lot. If I turned myself to a gravel race or road race I'd do fine. Am I not a mountain biker?
I can't find it now, but there's a video of Pidcock riding a DH bike in Andorra from before he got signed to Ineos and he's a hell of a lot better than I am.
I really don’t know why you think it’s a problem.
Once again, I said it makes it difficult for me to get too excited about it. Nothing else. It's just that when I said that, people got offended and have been trying to tell me why I am wrong to feel this way.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the talent pool in XC isn't as deep as road, money talks after all but on the technical ability aspect multiple world cup races have been won on the downhills in the last few years as the courses have got more demanding. The duels with Nino Shurter that shaped the latter part of Julien Absalons career were often decided in Shurters favour because of his greater downhill ability. Same goes for prime Yolanda Neff, she could pull out 15-20 seconds on every descent and forced the rest of the field to go and make technical ability a proper part of their training as even with some riders being superior climbers they couldn't close the gap multiple times over the race distance.
If it's been a while since you've watched a race maybe give it another look? Or don't, it's not that important in the grand scheme of stuff.
I race XC and couldn’t turn my hand to DH racing at anything like the same level of success. In fact, when I have done it I’ve gone from near the top to near the bottom. I like to think I’m a handy technical rider, and I ride DH tracks a lot. If I turned myself to a gravel race or road race I’d do fine. Am I not a mountain biker?
I prefer to think of myself as a person who rides mountain bikes rather than as a 'mountain biker' but everyone is free to identify themselves however they want and they should respect how others want to identify themselves.
So yes, i was wrong in that comment I made about 'not really mountain biking' and I apologise for it.
anyway, enough of that. Who's going to UCI Championship's and what are you seeing?
It’s just that when I said that, people got offended
No one was offended, they just disagreed with your statement that any road pro could turn up to an elite XC race and be competitive. They can't.
Anyway, I'd love to see one of the XC full-timers like Schurter in a road race like yesterday's. It'd be interesting to see how they'd get on.
The BMX park is on Eurosport at the min, looks a bit windy and some big names but think the eventual winner will be from Australia.
The BMX park is on Eurosport at the min,
It's on BBC too if you go to iPlayer - Tim Warwood commentating.
They can’t.
Except for the ones who can.
- I Anyway, I’d love to see one of the XC full-timers like Schurter in a road race like yesterday’s. It’d be interesting to see how they’d get on.
I suspect he’d do nothing on the road much like when he was a pro on a road team. I think he has benefited from being a big fish in a little pond in xc world but he can only beat whoever turns up.
XC racing is definitely going in the right direction.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I disagree with the idea that XC courses should be more technical. You've got downhill and enduro for that stuff. XC is just cross country and that's what it should be, just racing bikes off road. I feel the 'features' are just a spectacle for TV and I'd rather see less emphasis on them.
Racing bikes in most disciplines is primarily about physical fitness. XC requires an extra element of skill to compete but it doesn't have to define it.
To me, the essence of XC was yesterdays marathon- long, varied and tough. The heavily artificial short loops with artificial "features" interrupting a wide smooth path leave me cold. No matter how tricky they are, its just soulless to watch.
Such a shame that there's so little spectator interest- Glentress was empty yesterday despite it being free to watch.
Racing bikes in most disciplines is primarily about physical fitness. XC requires an extra element of skill to compete but it doesn’t have to define it.
The problem is that most people can ride bikes and (to them) it doesn't take much skill or fitness. Most people can hop on a bike and ride a couple of miles to the pub (even if most people don't actually do that because the roads are too dangerous!)
So since any idiot can ride a bike, watching other people ride bikes (especially on TV which flattens the angles) looks slow and boring and "well it's just riding a bike but a bit quicker".
So to make it good for TV, you have to put in more extreme stuff - bear in mind that the World Champs is partly about crowning a Champion but more about a shedload of money and advertising and TV rights and publicity. 😉
Bikes have got way better as well so there's a sort of arms race where a new-breed XC bike can ride [this] so you have to make [this] more extreme so the actual skills of the rider, not the skill-compensation of the bike comes to the fore.
anyway, enough of that. Who’s going to UCI Championship’s and what are you seeing?
Working on the Para Road / TT stuff in Dumfries from tomorrow.
The BMX park is on BBC too if you go to iPlayer
Jude Jones was IMMENSE. I loved the way he threw out not only his gloves but his shoes, and then when he gave his helmet to a young fan my heart nearly exploded, AWESOME
Brucewee. You are not going to like Puck Pieter's!!
cracking evening at the Pedal Power event in Platform in Glasgow last night. Ned Boulting did a good job running it, and David Millar and Pippa York, plus other guests were all pretty interesting. Combined with decent food and beer, all quite splendid !
Except for the ones who can.
We've already established there's only two riders in the pro peloton who can and they have a long history in riding elite off-road races so your point is not supported by the facts. And besides, you're conveniently ignoring the fact that Pidcock was beaten into 4th place last year by the supposedly inferior (and in Schurters case much older) full-timers.
