[Closed] Tubeless - Help!

Take the centre of the valve out and see if you can borrow a compressor or pop to the petrol station. That should do it

Too much rim tape?

I did a 717 rim with Stan's kit and only used one layer of yellow rim tape then the Stan's rim strip. There was a bit of faffing to get the rim strip properly seated under the bead hook, but after that was done it all went without a hitch using a track pump, Stan's sealant and a Bonty Jones tyre.

Could it be that all the rim tape is not allowing the rim strip to sit under the bead hook?

Go to the garage and use the compressor. Sounds like a sloppy fitting tyre mind. I stick some goo in there - can get a little messy, but works.
Once it's sealed once, seems a lot easier next time.

Use a velox cloth rim tape (or 2 of them) instead? Seem to remember they reccomend using cloth rim tapes.

Bonty tyres are about the easiest I've used.

Is that likely to make all the difference? Surely a petrol station compressor will be a schraeder valve won't it?

Bung a tube in there inflate to 50psi and leave overnight to allow the tyre to take on the shape of the rim. Then tomorrow remove tube and have another go.

yip, but I use one of those brass adapters

The yellow tape must have no wrinkles in it. If your rim has a deep well in the middle, then cut the strip narrower so it sits in the bottom of the well - no tape must have any kind of wrinkle or bubble in it.

You don't need your original rim tape in there, that's probably not helping at all.

Be careful with the CO2 that the gas isn't all pissing straight out of the tyre - make sure the tyre is covering the valve hole...

Do you get it to inflate? On some tyres it takes a long time to seal the sidewalls.. so inflate, swill sealant about, inflate again, swill till you hear no hissing.. then come back in 10 mins and re-inflate. Ride up and down the road a lot, check pressures, then go on a PROPER ride - if you leave it overnight it'll probably go down - if you have leaky tyres like I had with my Kenda Nevegals. Took a couple of rides to properly settle down.

Have you made sure to pinch the tyre bead so it's in the middle of the rim as much as possible, before inflating? I've also had more success pumping up tyres with no water/soapy mix on them and doing them dry, putting in the sealant later on.

I'm using a track pump, lots of soapy water.

Think more along the lines of watery soap than soapy water.

You need to get enough bubbles in between the bead and the rim to make a kind of makeshift seal to get it to blow out.

Bubbles, bubbles and more bubbles. 😉

Stuat - with yellow tape and the rimstrip, the tyre was just about falling off. With yellow tape, now 2 nylon rimstrips and the rubber strip, it's a better fit but still not close to sealing. It's still quite easy to get the rimstrip under the bead hook apart form round the valve.

At the moment, as per the Stans instructions, I'm trying to inflate it without sealant, just soapy water.

No, it's not inflating even for a second.

without my normal rim tape I can practically get my finger between the bead and rim. Miles too slack.

Don't use Conti's ,they're very difficult to get sealed . Use Maxxis tyres instead .

Hmmmm.

I found that the rim strip only just fitted under the bead hook with just one layer of yellow tape and that was after a lot of massaging to iron out the bulges.

It's working a treat now, though.

I am not using different tyres just for the sake of tubeless.

Gingerflash, I run the same set up and had a real game getting them to seal. However I mangaged it in the end!! By using an "emergency" tyre inflator. Although they arn't high pressure I found it provided a constant supply of air for me to manipulate the tyre to rim. I found keeping the tyre on the floor and "patting" it helped!!! Thats after I launched it across the garage a couple of times!!!

Get a valve and remove/cut off the centre bit, so you still have a 'valve' screwed in without the valve centre. This will allow you to screw a schraeder adapter and get tons of pressure in with a compressor or CO2.

You're not doing anything wrong, it a pants system.... 😕

(says the grumpy ex-stans user)

What's an emergency tyre inflator? I've got an electric compressor for the car, only a 12v low pressure thing, might that work? I'm going to have to get a presta/schaeder adaptor from somewhere though aren't I?

This is looking like a lot more trouble than it's worth. I have already spent about 3 hours swearing and shouting at it but that hasn't worked either.

What did you do wrong? Not using Mavic UST rims matey.

As above, put a tube in and inflate well. Put it aside for the night and try tomorrow before you have a breakdown 😉

Never got that combination to seal. Sidewalls on the black chilli MK's I used seemed pretty porous too which didn't help
Inflated Bonty tyres first time. Keep trying more soap and use a compressor not much else you can try...

The porous nature of the tyres is the least of the problem. The air is just pissing out between tyre bead and rim. There's about a quarter inch gap all the way round.

As for using Bontragers or Maxxis, I don't see the point of going tubeless if you're then restricted to certain tyres. I thought the point of the conversion was you could use any tyres you like. JRA's site says "Most Continental tyres work well".

Fitted stans to a 717 rim sunday. As prev mentioned, you want the sealing strip to be consistantly fitted all around the rim, evenly between the sidewalls and even tension around the rim. This took the most time for me,getting it nice and even, especially around the valve which was a sod to get under the rim to give a good, even, bead hook. I also found hanging the wheel with the valve at the top easier for inflating, rather than being on the floor.

I only had to use 2 layers of the yellow tape pulled very tight under the rim strip.

HTH
Pete

I use Conti tyres (kevlar verti pros) but on Mavic UST rims. At the first attempt I simply could not get them to seal even with plenty of soapy water. I used the 'inflate hard with an inner tube' method to get them into shape (don't think I had to leave them overnight) and they were straightforward after that. Just needed some vigorous action with a track pump to get a seal. Don't know how this relates to the Stans kit though.

Besides using a compressor or a different brand of tyres, I've tried everything above. I've had the tyre hung rather than on the floor. I've tried yellow tape on its own, with normal rim tape on top and with two layers of rim tape on top. The rimstrip is even and tight under the bead hook. the tyre bead is in the centre of the rim.

I'll try with more concentrated soap.

I am grateful for the help, just extremely frustrated. 😥

While I've been on here, I've put a tube in and blown up to 50psi. Guess what - ****ing rim split open along the seam!!!

Time for a beer I think.

Thats the thing Gingerflash, yep get a presta adapter. Sounds like your in the same place as I was (pissed off). Trust me, you'll get there. I do agree with others comments about the tyres being porous. Just spend some time getting them sealed once they're inflated.

I'm expecting them to be porous and need more sealant and more shaking, that's OK. I just want to get some ****ing air into the ****ing things.

singlespeedstu - Member

I'm using a track pump, lots of soapy water.

Think more along the lines of watery soap than soapy water.

You need to get enough bubbles in between the bead and the rim to make a kind of makeshift seal to get it to blow out.

Bubbles, bubbles and more bubbles. [:wink:]

Cue a chorus of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" from SingleSpeedStu 😉

Bubbles.......

I think with tubeless you just have to admit you need a compressor - it's not even an issue once you get one - previously I was swearing and cursing and covered in latex and it was a right pain in the hole. compressor now and no issue's, makes changing tyres just as easy as with tubes.

aldi are selling them for about £60 or 80 bucks at the moment

GF. I had exactly the same problem. Couldn't get my high rollers to inflate. Have you drilled the inner of the rim for the valve as per the stans video?

I could only inflate mine using a co2 cartridge.

I put loads of sealant in. Shook like mad, turned the wheel a bit, shook like mad, etc etc, till the bead was well covered in latex. Then inflated with a co2 can.

It was a nightmare!

there's a recurring theme here...

Having spent £70 on tyres, £50 on the kit, I'm not buying a compressor as well. I really don't fancy drilling out my rims either.

If I put sealant in now, it'll just come straight out and onto the floor.

I'll put tubes in over night and have another go tomorrow with thicker soap. If that doesn't work, I'm putting tubes back in.

nickc - Member

there's a recurring theme here...

LOL @ nickc

There's a recurring theme every time I ride a bike with inner tubes. I'll give you a clue, the word I'm looking for begins with a P and sounds like "Juncture" 😉

Honestly, losing inner tubes was a revelation. Gutted I Had to run inner tubes in my latest bikes wheels as an emergency measure (yes, I punctured, tiniest thorn in the world, but still enough to put a hole in a tube!). Lack of a tube and a bit of sealant deals with this nicely!

Oh, and FWIW, I don't think it's fair to have a go at Stan's when in fairness I think the total disparity between all tyre manufacturer's "bead tightness" let's call it, is ridiculous! That said, I used to be a bit of a serial tyre swapper, but have now found tyres to suit any of my needs from either the Maxxis or Bontrager stables (the 2 most reliable when converting to tubeless). Never been much of a fan of Continental myself...

hey, I know its alot of cash but a compressor is a worthwhile future investment. tubeless is brilliant once you get it working - it may be a pain next time you change you tyres if you don't have one - or put the tyre on the wrong way round....

or find a garage with an old type compressor it'll pop it up in two ticks.
not one of these new digital crap things - they don;t work

oh and put the sealant in first - you'll end up having to let the air out to put the sealant in if you don't. the tyre will likely come off the bead again.

Pjuncture?... 😉

Right, tubes are in with about 50psi. I've watched the installation video and he says drilling the rims is really important so I'll do that as well.

This is one job I'd love to be able to pay a shop to do for me!

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll let you know whether I manage it tomorrow.

hi gingerflash do you live in or near sheffield,if so come over to mine and i will sort it ive done these kits

GF are you near justridingalong - if so they will do it for you (Hillsborough, Sheffield)

Thanks for the offer Greg, but I'm up in North Leeds.

Good to know that if I really can't do it, I can go to JRA.

It is worth it mind - makes your bike a lot nicer to ride, if you care about such things. Made my Patriot way nicer to ride, as if I'd spent £300 on new wheels but cheaper. And no puctures 🙂 (touch wood, like)

I've decided to test lightweight schwalbe tubes with sealant instead of going tubeless, I reckon it'll be easier.

I used exactly the same rims with conti tyres. I only used one layer of the yellow tape and I DID NOT drill out the valve hole. No need. I then put the tyre on the rim with some soapy water. Took it down the petrol station with a brass schraeder convertor. Blew the tyre up first time. Then came back home popped a bit of the tyre off the rim and popped some sealant in and pumped back up with the track pump. Once they have been popped onto the rim by a compressor you will find they will blow back up with a track pump. Do not pull much of the tyre off the rim though when putting sealant in as you will be back to square one.

Moral of the story is not to bother with a track pump. I couldn't get it to mount. My LBS now blows the tyres up for me with their compressor. My advice would be to persevere as the benefits are so great with regard to more grip and puncture proof.

Compressor with the sealant already added inside the tyre. Yes the sealant goes everywhere but it seals much easier and washes off.

I echo the comments about getting a compressor. Petrol station pumps aren't really upto the job either. Do yourself a favour and go to a friendly car garage or kwik fit. They're likely to be more than happy to let you use their compressor. Once you've got it running and have seen the light, then you'll see it's worth buying a compressor. Personally I use a large old compressor but I'm looking to buy a very high power car compressors that 4x4 enthusiasts use to swap over tyres on the move.

Sounds to me like the tyre beads are too high and thus the gap is too big - two layers of yellow tape AND your fabric stuff?!

Stans instructions for 717's is 1 or two layers of yellow tape only.

Is this a case of RTFM? 😆

Forgot to say, I'd not like to inflate Conti's with just a track pump, they're very porous IME.

A compressor is proabably necessary if you want to be able to inflate all brands of tyres, a track pump will usually suffice for maxxis or most genuine UST tyres.

Could try

- set tyre in place
- rope/luggage strap around middle of tyre
- as you tighten loop, encourage tyre bead towards rim (and simultaneously force tyre middle into rim well)
- should increase fit and decrease available volume
- so pumping might work

Second the "watery soap" bit - I just dribbled neat washing up liquid around the rim, gave it a quick wipe to get it touching the tyre and rim, then pumped like fury...

One of the most satisfying sounds in the world is when the soft bubbling noise of the air getting out everywhere is replaced by a sharp hissing then silence as the bl**dy thing finally seals!

Moral of the story is not to bother with a track pump.

Some rims do work with a track pump. I got Speedking supersonics to seal on Stans Olympics with a track pump and no bother at all. Pump fast and within 10 seconds they start to go.

"lightweight schwalbe tubes with sealant "
That wouldn't stop pinchflats though, would it? That's my main problem.

"Stans instructions for 717's is 1 or two layers of yellow tape only."
I tried that. the tyre was miles too loose. the instructions say that if the tyre's too loose, put normal rim tape on as well. I did that. Still too loose so I tried another layer of rim tape as well.

Underthesun - that's pretty encouraging. Will stop off at LBS and try to get a valve adaptor and see if that works. First i'll have another go with almost neat washing up liquid and less rim tape.

Perhaps the tyres are just too baggy? Are they new or old?

>Perhaps the tyres are just too baggy? Are they new or old?

See post #1 😉

They're brand new tyres. I finished last night by putting tubes in and pumping to about 50psi so tonight they should be in better shape.

You could try Ghetto/DIY setup, the rim strips might allow for a better initial seal.

Too many pinch flats = tyres not inflated enough for terrain?

Holy moly, I think it's worked!!!

Went to halfords on the way home to get a schaeder/presta adaptor. They had a cheap mini compressor. With that, and neat washing up liquid, I eventually got the tyre to inflate. It's stayed up and is now lying on its side with sealant in. Fingers crossed it'll still be inflated in the morning.

Tomorrow - the rear! 😀

Thanks for all your help and advice.

I knew you'd get there in the end. 😉

blown up to 50psi. Guess what - ****ing rim split open along the seam!!!

am I reading/you writing that right, GF ?

your RIM split at 50psi ?!?!?!?!

LOL. You're reading it right, I'm typing it wrong. The tube split, not the rim.

Anyway, I checked the wheel this morning, it doesn't seem to have lost any air so it looks like it's worked. In spite of the supersonics apparently being very porous, I had no trouble sealing the tyre at all. Air came through the sidewalls before the sealant went in but as soon as I'd shaken the sealant round once, it was fine.

Yey! Success!

[whispers] has he mentioned that the tyre is on the wrong way round yet??[/whispers]

this is why you don't want your wife reading stw as well 😉

ROFLMAO at mrs flash...

I was going to get tubless but having just read that, I think it will be much easier to pinch flat once a ride...

GF, this the compressor you got?

[url] http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_509553_langId_-1_categoryId_165727#dtab [/url]

I have found that once you have fitted a tyre and used it then it gets easier the next time you do it.
I always use a compressor as it only takes seconds to get it on that way and i take the valve core out which helps.

That Halfords compressor looks ok.

Marmite - yes, that's the one.

I had joked about putting the tyre on the wrong way round and, in spite of checking about 5 times, it got turned round at some point in the process. The Mountain King doesn't look very direction specific so I think I'll leave it, for now at least.