“Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape”
What?!! I’ve never done this in years of tubeless. The tape on my rims lasts until a spoke goes (once in the last five years).
If you unluckily get one of those bastard new tyre/rim combinations where the tyre just wont go on, you need tyre levers, and metal ones at that. With the new style lower rim walls, the end of the lever can touch the tape. I also suspect that on one occasion I had this problem, the tyre grabbed the tape so hard once it did land when it finally went on that it moved the tape over a bit. Inflating the tyre with a tube to stretch the bead, greasing the rim wall/tyre bead/ tape at the problem final point would also prevent it. Its a new tyre problem, but it does exist.
The general consensus is that tubeless is many times better than tubes ever were in terms of grip, rolling resistance, comfort and resisting flats it’s not perfect, but very few things are. I still question the need for it on the road but even there the system seems to be getting refined now…
Perfectly put sir.
People get annoyed when you say tubeless is shit, because lots of us use it. If it were really shit, we'd have to be stupid to continue using it. Therefore it amounts to calling us stupid...
Tubeless can be a faff, but so could judging whether the rubber cement you'd applied to the inner tube - hopefully in the spot that you'd marked with your little yellow crayon as being where the puncture was - was tacky enough that the patch would stick to the wet inner tube first time so you could hold it firmly in place for several minutes and then cover it with a dusting of chalk for no reason before attempting to get the tube back into the tyre and the tyre seated without the tube being stuck under the bead and without using a lever which could easily nick the tube and then pumping up the tyre again and hoping that you wouldn't hear that satisfied ejaculatory "wifff!" sound as the patch let go...
The whole tubeless thing has passed me by woooosh
Is there a system - like car/motorcycle tyres - where the beads snap on to the rim? Is that UST?
I was track pump only till my last tyre change, couldn't get up a previously proven combo, think it might have got a bit baggy. Changed to a tubeless (i.e. chambered) track pump and it was fine.
Both my MTBs are tubeless, still carry a spare tube just in case but haven't needed it in ages
People get annoyed when you say tubeless is shit
I don't get annoyed... more amazed that people are still using tubes. Good luck to em. Hope I don't have to wait on a ride while they do what BigDummy describes! 😆
Had a bit of "fun" this morning with a couple of tubeless setups. Both it turns out were tape related. The rear wheel on the Spearfish had gone flat before we went on our hols so had to retape, seat the tyre, add sealant and inflate. Not a problem with that one.
The second one was a tyre on my single speed. When I'd put this on it stayed inflated first time without sealant but now it wouldn't stay inflated for more than five seconds 🙁 The tyre hasn't been messed with since I put it on nearly a year ago. A right battle to get the thing off the rim and the tape is all scrunched up in the well of the rim. Remove, clean up and apply new tape. The tyre goes on by hand (?) and inflates/pops first time. Add sealant and put back on bike and have a ride around. It seems to be holding, so far!
Funny, i never had any problem with my tubeless setup for a whole year until my back tyre decided to randomly deflate on the first day of my holiday. Tracked the problem to leak around the valve. Put a tube in for the remainder of the week. On return, stripped wheel, replaced all the tape, refitted valve, added sealant, reinflated, sealed etc. Tyre flat the next morning. Still leaking at the valve. Tried a new valve but still the same. Looked on CRC for different design of valve that might fit better. Find loads of complaints for all sorts about leakage around the valve.
Today, it’s the same discussion on here. Until 2 weeks ago I’d never even considered it.
"Leak around the valve" just means a leak somewhere. The valve is the easiest place for air to escape so it'll appear to be a valve issue, although it's more likely to be air getting under the tape somewhere else.
The general consensus is that tubeless is many times better than tubes ever were in terms of grip, rolling resistance, comfort and resisting flats it’s not perfect, but very few things are. I still question the need for it on the road but even there the system seems to be getting refined now…
See, this is the thing that I've never got my head around how? What magic goes on to allow this, because as far as I can tell it's only stated performance benefit is the ability to run lower pressures without risk of pinch flatting. I don't see how having your air seal in an almost liquid state instead of a solid state would do any of that? I mean I can run my tyres to the points I'm getting side wall wear and it handles like complete crap.
as far as I can tell it’s only stated performance benefit is the ability to run lower pressures without risk of pinch flatting
Lower pressure generally also gives better grip and comfort, even with a tube in running lower pressures gives these benefits.
Also, various tests have shown that a wider tyre at lower pressures = lower rolling resistance.
3) Get some Stan’s
4) You MAY need some means of inflating rapidly like CO2 or Airshot. But CO2 works fine
Co2 and Stan's doesn't play well together. If you need to use a co2 cartridge then do it before you add the stans, just to set the bead.
Tubeless has passed me by too. I suspect that if I gave it a go it'd be about 2 hours of initial faffing, trial and error, then finally getting it set up. And it'd probably work OK. But I've never got round to investing the time, money or effort; the benefits have never really sounded compelling enough.
Three weeks ago I got a new rear wheel (Hope XC), fitted Gorilla Tape and then mounted up a Bontrager XR2 tubeless – just used a track pump. Went for a quick ride just to get the sealant spread around. Topped up the sealant. Two days later we headed out to France. I pumped up the tyre to a bit higher than normal and we set off. After two weeks of riding I thought the tyre was getting a bit soft so I put a bit of air in.
This sounds great but... it sounds exactly the same as riding with tubes, but with more sticky gunk.
Probably a lot of it is about where and what you ride, and I'm definitely not in the same league as some riders. But for what I ride (hardtail on local trails), tubes work fine. I get a puncture once in a blue moon, and it's 10 minutes to swap a tube in, eat a biscuit, and get back on the move.
Co2 and Stan’s doesn’t play well together.
People say this, but I used it for a decade with no issues. Of course I had the valve at the top so the CO2 didn't bubble through the fluid...
See, this is the thing that I’ve never got my head around how?
The tyre is much thinner, and there's only one layer. The tube and tyre take more energy to deform, and they run against each other slightly which creates friction and costs energy.
You can run lower pressures (or at least I can) because you are much less likely to pinch puncture. This means that the tyre carcass can deform over stones and smooth them out, which makes it both much more comfortable and more efficient on rough ground.
Have you ridden a bike with tubeless?
Just put a new tyre on a Stans Flow Ex rim....
Took off old tyre, tape was a bit pulled up edges so retaped.
Got new tyre on pretty easily (Vee Tyre Crown gem 2.8 if you're interested) and tried to pump up with track pump, but had air escaping at valve.
Tried inflator, but still had air escaping.
Realised valve wasn't pulled through fully, so tightened it up.
Retried with track pump and the bead popped on no probs.
Added sealant and valve core, pumped up and airtight.
Whole process took no more than 30 mins, and I had a cup of tea and a donut whilst doing it 😉
I really like tubeless and had never had an issue with just chucking tyre on and pumping it up with track pump* until this weekend when the Mrs ripped a side wall on the first of three days riding. Bought a new WTB Vigilante from the shop at BPW, chucked it on but wouldn't go up with a track pump, charger pump or the shops compressor!
Got it up once home but had to seat the tyre with a tube first and then it went up with the Airshot once one side of the bead was seated. Still up this morning so I'm hoping it was a blip.
First trip away this year that I've forgot to take a spare tyre and sealant as well, doh!
* Aways used tubless rims (stans or easton with tesla tape) and a mixture of Maxxis, Schwalbe or Specialized tyres.
Edit: And the reasons that tubeless is great is punctures. I used to get at least on a ride in the rear running 30+ psi and the last time I topped up the sealant on the hardtail, I pulled three bits of metal, a nail and a couple of thorns out the tyre, all would have burst a tube.
Oh, and the reasons that tubeless is great is punctures or the lack of. I used to get at least on a ride in the rear running 30+ psi and the last time I topped up the sealant on the hardtail, I pulled three bits of metal, a nail and a couple of thorns out the tyre, all would have burst a tube.
Nah, it’s shit, it’s always been shit but if you dare say it out loud you’re just shouted down and victim blamed by the true believers
Not sure what you mean but you sound a little fragile emotionnaly. I don't know what a true believer is but can't people rationally share their experience ?
I only started 18 months ago as tired of getting weekly punctures. I have had the grand total of zero since then.
Setting up for me has been super easy. I only just changed my wheels and switching the TL tyres took a matter of minutes.
They seem to hardly lose any air compared to tubes too.
I don't see what the problem is and I cant understand the rationale for using tubes. I can only assume that user error or cost cutting or both can lead to a different outcome. Not to mention resistance to change.
Gamechanger for me, I love it.
Sealant would of easily sorted the mess a 4 inch nail left in my tyre on the weekend, that is if the nail had not punched a hole in the rim at the same time.
People say this, but I used it for a decade with no issues. Of course I had the valve at the top so the CO2 didn’t bubble through the fluid…
It can still shorten the lifespan even if it doesn't create a staminal, and these no reason why you would need to risk it. set the bead, then add the sealant, and then it shouldn't need a compressor or cartridge to go back up, a track pump will suffice.
Bloody love tubeless! No more pinch flats! No more thorn flats! Lower pressure
I have never failed to get a tyre to seat with a track pump even the 2.5 minion I fitted last night that I thought was too baggy went up first time and stayed up.
The only time I have found that they go down is when the sealant gets a bit tired but that's easily sorted.
I run 2.1s with 25psi, and I'm 87kg.
Also, various tests have shown that a wider tyre at lower pressures = lower rolling resistance.
How can this be? Not disagreeing, but curious
I thought it was the wider tyre at the same pressure was lower RR, at least on road.
Off road, lower pressures are clearly lower RR for me, because you get bounced offline less. Most noticeable on technical rocky climbs.
Off road, lower pressures are clearly lower RR for me
Same on road but to a lesser extent. Unless you cycle on a polished marble surface there will be bumps and imperfections that absorbed by the lower pressure tyre rather than taken as an impact.
Tubeless has always been great for me as I live in an area where I got a lot of punctures (Punctured an armadillo last week). Unfortunately back on higher pressure 23c tyres nowadays and couldn't get tubeless to work at high pressure although admittedly was not using a tubeless tyre.
I can't get that a softer tyre has lower rolling resistance - yeah, it might hold a better line etc and overall sometimes quicker, but actual rolling resistance HAS to be higher
All I can add to this is that I’ve been using tubeless (ghetto at that) for the last eight years and it’s transfomed where I can ride, especially in Greece, where they have thorns like no other. Before that, every ride was either interrupted by puncture repairing or else, when you thought you’d got lucky and escaped, the next day you’d go to get your bike and find both tyres flat....
Go back to tubes? Not a hope in hell.
When I’ve changed tyres I’ve counted over twenty thorns that have remained in the tyre. Every one a puncture with tubes.
Is there a system – like car/motorcycle tyres – where the beads snap on to the rim? Is that UST?
Ust does have a bit where the bead sits bit so do the other tubeless ready rims I have. You still need a blast of air to seat the bead most of the time though. (I did seat my first tyres without but had to build up the rim bed quite a lot making fitting/removing tyres seriously hard work).
I think I’m ok at setting up tubeless - in fact, I regularly set up tubeless tyres for a few of my friends as well.
However, I have still had a few issues in the past - setting up Maxxis DH tyres quite a few years ago was one and recently it took me 3 attempts per wheel to set up Vee Rubber gravity tyres. I also have managed to damage tape removing my tyres and most often it’s been the tyre bead that’s done the damage.
Despite the above, most often I have managed to set tubeless up with a pump - although I do have an Airshot. I’ve found a few simple tricks have addressed most issues.
- Soaping the tyre bead to make it easier to slip over the tape
- Either ensuring the bead sits in the middle of the rim or snug against the rim wall. That depends on the rim and tyre combo
- Doing the Stans dance properly
Why do I persist - even when it’s been painful
1). More grip. A lot more grip!
2). Tyre rolls better - feels a lot faster
3). More comfortable. The tyre can be run effectively at a lower pressure, making it absorb bumps better
4). The longest gap between punctures I have ever had. I have gone as long as five years - yes, FIVE YEARS, without a puncture.
I can’t get that a softer tyre has lower rolling resistance – yeah, it might hold a better line etc and overall sometimes quicker, but actual rolling resistance HAS to be higher
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/tire-pressure-take-home/
I was a bit wary of going tubeless, mainly due to the percieved faffage many seems to have.
Once I'd got hold of some cheap TL rims, and tyres, there was no holding me back. Electrical tape for the rim sealing, inflation with a regular track pump, satisfying pop of the bead. They were even staying up for a decent amount of time without sealant. First time up to full pressure with sealant and they leaked over about 2 days. One more re-inflation, and that was it.
The feel is different, better in all areas, But then that could be down to just the tyre type being different, as I never used the TL tyres with tubes in.
I was a complete newbie with tubeless until the beginning of the year. Got a new bike and thought now's the time to do it. I was a bit apprehensive because of all the stories about set up problems and I only had a track pump, no compressor or airshot or anything like that.
You just have to take it slowly. Taped up the rim, that was easy. Then the trick I discovered was to do test runs. I put the tyre on the rim and tried to inflate it without sealant in first to see if it was possible. That didn't happen, so I put a tube in and inflated that, then deflated it and popped one bead off, then tried to inflate it again without the tube and bingo, it worked. So all I had to do after that was pop one bead again, pour the sealant in and re-inflate and it was totally fine. This was with non TR HR2s as well.
I literally just yesterday popped on some fresh tyres, Mary up front and DHRII in back and the tubes trick worked again like a beaut. I might invest in an airshot in the future just to cut the tubes step out of the equation, but it works and that's what matters. Tubeless is wonderful.
I can’t get that a softer tyre has lower rolling resistance – yeah, it might hold a better line etc and overall sometimes quicker, but actual rolling resistance HAS to be higher
In theory yes but in practice as kerley says, the increased resistance on a totally smooth surface is offset many times over by the decrease in resistance over bumps. Which, as MTBers, we seem to get all the time.
SaxonRider has 27.5 x 3.0s on his bike *with tubes* at 15psi or so and he weighs less than I do, but on a typical stony descent that an MTBer would consider smooth, he just rolls away from me on my 29 x 2.35s with 25psi. I have to pedal to keep up. Both fully rigid.
Is there a system – like car/motorcycle tyres – where the beads snap on to the rim? Is that UST?
The rim strips I use provide this - a little spot to hold the bead next to the edge of the rim. It means I never get burps. Not from my tyres at least.
I've only ever had one puncture using tubeless in about 12 years. That was in 2010 I think.
Tyre/rim combo makes a difference. Nightmare on my old 2012 Camber with DT swiss rims and various tyres (spesh, onza) but still doable.
Bought a T130 RS recently with WTB tyres and rims and setting up tubeless (admittedly with an Airshot) was a surprising joy with no sweating or swearing or soapy water involved and the beads settling into the rims with a bang that actually made me flinch at first.
Sods law I got a quarter inch sidewall tear on my 1st tubeless ride which wouldn't seal but that's now patched and set up tubeless again.
The last time I had to put a tube in on the Camber I extracted about 7 big thorns from the tyre so I'm sold on the benefits of tubeless, even in the bad old days of sweating and fairy liquid
I got a new 2nd hand bike for MrsOC on Monday, the tyres were pretty old and needed replacing which I knew from the start, and the bike had never been setup tubeless.
Ordered some tyres from CRC, along with valves, delivered to my work yesterday. Got home, and within an hour I had taped both rims, inserted the valves, and got them both holding pressure, admittedly I used my mates Airshot type thing. Hans Dampf on the front went up first time with some lovely pings, no water or anything, HR2 on the back took a couple of goes and a sprinkle of water, but went up.
Came down this morning and checked them and both held pressure over night. Will be properly testing them tomorrow.
The two "worst case scenarios" that I can think of out on the trail are:
1. Slashing the side wall of the tyre
2. Badly dinging the rim.
Neither are much different from when running with tubes, in fact with the first it's likely to be simpler as you won't have also slashed and destroyed an inner tube at the same time. On longer rides I carry a sewing kit with me - I bought it thirty years ago when I went on climbing expeditions and never used it until earlier this year when we came across someone who'd blown out the side wall of a tyre so he borrowed it and fixed it. Took a while and it helped that the weather was nice at the time - I wouldn't like to be doing it in a hoolie on top of a moor.
On the topic of ripped tyre walls....
I recently restocked with puncture repair kits - I still carry one on rides because you may then puncture your spare tube if you have to use it!
Both were Lezyne ones (a normal patch and glue one and one with pre-glued patches) and both have tyre boots included. Haven't had to use yet, but I've always carried a DIY tyre boot made from a bit of old motorbike inner tube, so it's good to see manufacturers including them in kits.
