[Closed] Tubeless - a bit crap?

No, it's great. Have loads of tubeless wheel sets on my bikes and, as long as I haven't cut any corners setting them up, they've all been faultless. If it's gradually losing air, it's not been done right.

Just put some tubeless Panaracer Gravel King SKs on my cross/commuter, having them tubeless means they're much lower rolling resistance than the tubed version. Would never go back!

IME if air is leaking from the valve, it doesn't necessarily mean the valve is the problem or it's not tight. That's just the easiest place for any air leaking out anywhere else (under the tape for example) to escape.

Tbh, any issue is generally user error, ie nicking tape. Learn how to fit a tyre without levers, it's not hard, the only thing you'll need to do after that is change fluid, mibbe every 4-6 months?.

If you don't mind getting a puncture, or don't get many, and can run pressure low enough for grip - then tubeless is not worth the hassle.

Tubeless worshippers will be along soon however to tell you how amazing it is, but caveat that with a load of "buts".

Like getting the right rims, tyres, sealant etc.

Then the faff of pumping it up - where of course there is no end of high capacity pumps, air reserviours, compressers etc to help.

Then there are special fluids, ones that don't go off after a few months for example.

Then to top it all off, they carry a spare inner tube just in case 🙂

Sometimes old tech just works and doesn't need improving.  Bit like rear mechs vs. gearboxes.

It's because you lot insist on faffing about with tape instead of getting proper strips!

Its very simple:

1) Get tubeless ready tyres

2) Get the right strip/valve combo for your rims

3) Get some Stan's

4) You MAY need some means of inflating rapidly like CO2 or Airshot.  But CO2 works fine.

5) Fit tire, inflate, ride.

It was a faff in 2007 when I first tried it, but it's a piece of cake now.

You think they’d have made it a bit more robust by now.

They have!  They make TLR tyres and proper rim strips designed for the purpose.

Bored of these 'waghh it won't work it's rubbish tubeless threads'.

Let me break it down for you.

I seem to spend much more time faffing about with it than I ever did with inner tubes.

Probably not thinking much about how it comes together as a cohesive system.

Pump it up, stick it in the bath – air coming from the valve base. Make sure it’s tight. Still doing it.

User error/ignorance.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">So I’m going to have to take the whole tyre off, clean the wheel out, re-tape it, get the bead on with a fire extinguisher, put more sealant in and hope it’s all working.</span>

You honestly think you have to replace all the tape to get a valve to seal? I refer you to the above.

Until it randomly fails again in the future.

Because you set it up badly with little thought?

Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape and have to go through that ^ faff again (hopefully no problems getting the bead on).

User error.

So I’ve got a second set of wheels for my off-road tyres. And the front one of them is leaking through the rim too. So it;s going to need dismantled, cleaned and taped again.

As above.

The CX bike has a flat front tyre. Probably needs some new sealant. But maybe going to have developed some other random fault.

As above.

So by going tubeless I’ve ended up spending way more time having to faff about with it, spent money on a second set of wheels and a tubeless inflator and sealant – which seems to need topped up every 6 weeks or so.

Because of bad setup.

I may have saved weight by not having an inner tube. But I need to carry one with me in case I get a bad puncture or the whole thing just decides to not work.

Not the point of tubeless.

I may get less punctures, but to be honest, I didn’t get punctures before.

Good for you!

I can run lower tyre pressures, which is particularly handy on the CX bike…..

It’s not like this is a particularly new thing. You think they’d have made it a bit more robust by now.

User ignorance.

If you want to just bash stuff together and expect it to work stick with inner tubes. Tubeless set up requires a modicum of thought and a little care because it's a system of multiple parts that need to fit together correctly.

It's great, once you have got used to doing it right.  Don't give up.

If you want to just bash stuff together and expect it to work stick with inner tubes. Tubeless set up requires a modicum of thought and a little care because it’s a system of multiple parts that need to fit together correctly.

Which is kind of the point the OP was making, so the "USER ERROR" repeatedly above your actual point is a bit OTT. He said that he was finding it hard. He is finding it hard. Why then go and point out that the reason he's finding it hard to set up tubeless is because it's quite faffy and he's not quite doing it right?

I mean I like tubeless, but my first setup was a huge faff. Later ones were a lot less faff (rims designed for it), but that doesn't mean the OP is going to find it faff free does it?

Tubeless since 2003, no issues....  MTB, CX and Road..

Maybe I should do the Lotto.

You're quite right in all counts.<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> </span>

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">The OP spends the entire post blaming shonky equipment without being self aware enough to think maybe it's them thata the common factor.</span>

Sometimes people don't seem to get it until the same thing is repeated enough times.

Some combos are right ****s .......anything Dr Swiss I'm looking at you.

Barring that they are great.

I use clear gorilla tape. Had poor success with rim strips back in the day when they were an actual thing rather than the exception.

Since moving to tape and especially since binning tesa tape I've have minimal issues and those I've had are caused by the dt Swiss rims being bastard tight.

On that note science officer. You quite assertively point out that you don't need to retape a rim for a leaking valve.

How ever it's rarely a valve randomly starts leaking if it's previously been set up tubeless .It's usually the rim tapes been damaged so he probably did the right thing on that one.

And pray tell, what's the likely cause of the tape damage given their following sentences?

Eh? Even I have got the hang of it, it’s pretty chuffing simple really.

running lowish pressures (and being a FF) not had any real issues in the last 7 or 8 years I’ve run tubeless.

its more hassle changing tyres but I think we tend to overthink tyre choice anyways...

an airshot is a worthwhile investment though (esp. for B+ tyres).

Tubeless is a great system and also it has a built in fail safe for setting it up . If you are unable to get it to seal properly then you don't have the  ability to fix any puncture you might have while running tubeless so the system is not recommended for you . If on the other hand you find it easy to set up then you will be able to fix any punctures that you may have while out on the trail , not that you are likely to have any , and that means that the system is for you .

It’s because you lot insist on faffing about with tape instead of getting proper strips!

Yeah or make it even easier by using UST rims,

Honestly its a piece of piss,

1. Bead the tyre, this should be easier than with a tube as, you know, there isn't a tube in the way

2. Give it a roll and a quick look to make sure its seated, like you would do with any tyre

3. Attach track pump, inflate tyre (may need slightly more effort than normal - but you ride a push bike for fun so you shouldn't find it that hard),

4. Admire the satisfying ping as the tyre seats itself

5. Deflate and squirt some sealant in the tyre through the valve then re-inflate

I cant say I see the point or can feel any difference running dual ply's. I dont get punctures running tubes & dont run low pressures as I dont like them squishing around in fast corners.

My last tubeless tyre will have a tube in it next time I swap it out.

It almost seems you need to go tubeless as its the thing to do.

It almost seems you need to go tubeless as its the thing to do.

Having completely hassle free tubeless for about 6 years now means it's working for me. Few blow outs fixed with a CO2 blast to a fully inflated tyre and tube saved.

As for Rm strips? If tape didn't work then I might consider it but it's not been an issue.

Setting it up right is key but after that it's a simple system.

"And pray tell, what’s the likely cause of the tape damage given their following sentences?"

"Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape and have to go through that ^ faff again (hopefully no problems getting the bead on). So I’ve got a second set of wheels for my off-road tyres. And the front one of them is leaking through the rim too. So it;s going to need dismantled, cleaned and taped again."

im going to go with that set of 3 sentences that followed. where he acknowledges that hes pretty crap at putting tires on and has a reputation with him self for nicking tape. given the first thing he did was check the valve was tight it seems likely that he did the right thing by assuming it was the rim tape.

So far I’ve been ok. My first tubeless tyres came setup from Bird - DT rims with DT tape, not sure what make valve and Maxxis tyres. Still on the original tape despite having changed the tyres around a few times - just recently had to change the valve cores as they were a bit gakked up with sealant.

Setup another wheelset (that I built myself) and so far so good with those. Wtb rims / with tape / Stans valves / On-one Tyres.

Over 2 or 3 weeks both sets of tyres lose about 5 psi but I check them before riding anyway. Touch wood I’ve not had a puncture on either set of tyres yet, but I’m a bit apprehensive about how it will go if I get a hole that won’t seal. I’ve got a kit for fixing tubeless tyres with me but not even opened it to see what’s in it!

On short rides that’s all I take - on long rides miles from the car I put a spare tube in the bag just to be on the safe side.

tubeless is rubbish and great at the same time!

i have most sucess with the rim strip/split bmx tube method although my gorilla taped wheels seem to be working. I re-tape every tyre change though.

There is no weight saing. I have to run heavy as hell tyres to make it work for any length of time and avoid pinching tyres.

once you have a decent hole the tyre is junk. if you run em low pressure the sidewalls wear out and hte tyre is junk or you pinch teh tyre and the tyre is junk. i also havent found a decent sealant that works once you puncture in the pouring rain.

I`ve gone back to tubes on the HT 9which i ride the most and commute on) but i had 3 punctures in a week so i hate that as well! i am, however, using up the stash of holed tyres i can no longer use tubeless though! and they are light so i can go really fast!

once you have a decent hole the tyre is junk

You can sew them with dental floss and or patch and they still will work with tubeless.

Sort of a crossover from my French Divide thread.

Three weeks ago I got a new rear wheel (Hope XC), fitted Gorilla Tape and then mounted up a Bontrager XR2 tubeless - just used a track pump. Went for a quick ride just to get the sealant spread around. Topped up the sealant. Two days later we headed out to France. I pumped up the tyre to a bit higher than normal and we set off. After two weeks of riding I thought the tyre was getting a bit soft so I put a bit of air in.

So, yeah, tubeless is rubbish 😉

Genuinely interested in how people manage to damage tape whilst changing tyres?  It's just never occured to me that it could happen.

If the rim tape isn't right up against the side of rim, it's easy to damage when pulling tyre away from bead hook of rim.

I've just had a nightmare with a tyre on my rim continually going flat. Air out of valve. Checked rim tape, replaced it with new, 2 times round with tesa tape. Still had issues. Replaced valve with a stans valve as I thought the superstar valve rubber seal might not be soft enough to seal. Still leaking. Valve nut as tight as I could get it, with pliers (wouldn't want to undo on trail!). Dipped valve rubber seal in sealant (peaty), before doing up again. Still leaking. Replaced sealant as I wasn't happy with it drying up after approx 1 day. Put that tractor tyre sealant in. Sealed! My answer, crap sealant.

The setting up is a hassle but once done it is relatively hassle free.

I have 2 issues.. There is a weight saving but unless you are constantly cleaning out the dried up fluid then the weight goes up every time you add sealant. Not an issue on a pair of 800gm mtb tyres, but for an xc bike or roadie it all adds up

Then there is the tyre changing issue. My yeti is mainly used for non technical xc ridings where something like a Ralph up front is ideal. The bike is more than capable of more technical stuff however, but the Ralph isn't. So unless I buy a new front wheel then I need to swap the tyres round.. A 5 min job with tubes turns into an hours worth of messy gloopy frustration. So I've ended up putting on a tyre that is compromised for both, but can stay on permanently.

The other thing that always amazes me is when reviewers say they easily manage to set up a tubeless tyre with just a track pump. I have only ever used proper tape, tupeless tyres, and compatable tubeless rims, and I have never got close to it working without using an air shot or the like, and even then it usually takes a few goes to work

Yeah or make it even easier by using UST rims

This is true.

Road/commuter/gravel bike has Mavic UST - tubeless, 2 punctures in 4 years (carried on riding, sealed)

Main MTB - Stans - 1 puncture in a year (fixed in the time it takes to pump it back up again.)

Son's MTB - Mavic UST - No punctures in 2 years (can't remember any before that when it was my bike)

Hardtail MTB - Stans - no punctures since I've had it.

The nearest to faff was getting the commuter tyres on & off, but so worth it for not having the ride disrupted or being late for work.

But, yeah, it's crap. Much rather be sat by the side of the road/trail pulling out the spare tube..etc... sigh, remember those days....

you're doing it wrong. I've not even had to use my ghetto compressor for a year or two!

There is a weight saving but unless you are constantly cleaning out the dried up fluid then the weight goes up every time you add sealant.

Hardly anything though, sealant is almost entirely water.  I just liberally squirted more in every few months on a bike I had for years, there was probably only 1/4 a skinny latex tube's worth in there by the time I binned it.

The argument that you have to carry a tube even when tubeless...surely you’d be carrying a spare tube if you weren’t running tubeless anyway so no difference?

FWIW unless it’s ghetto I’ve had zero issues. Maybe I’m lucky. I find it one of the greatest steps forward in the last 10 or so years.

When converting non tubeless rims I found some joe’s strips that slotted straight on allowed quick and painless conversion, no faffing with tape (not that it is much faff, but you know).

The other thing that always amazes me is when reviewers say they easily manage to set up a tubeless tyre with just a track pump. I have only ever used proper tape, tupeless tyres, and compatable tubeless rims, and I have never got close to it working without using an air shot or the like, and even then it usually takes a few goes to work

I don't own, and have never used, any sort of Airshot/compressor etc, only ever a track pump.😊

no faffing with tape (not that it is much faff, but you know).

Sounds like another thing you could get wrong though, whereas with the strip you can't really.

I'm with the OP on this; I'm having a right mare with tubeless.

My was set up tubeless when I bought it and all was well with the world. Then I swapped the front tyre and it was ages before it would hold pressure. Then I ripped the rear sidewall on a rock so put the old front tyre on. I was (I thought) really ****ing careful not to damage the tape but nothing I did would persuade the tyre to stay up. In the end I took it my LBS who re-taped it and again, all was well with the world. Right up until the point that I got a slash in the tyre that sealant wouldn't cure. New tyre time then. Fitted new tyre, pumped up new tyre, left it overnight. No loss of pressure. Popped bead and added sealant (couldn't add it through the valve, nozzle kept blocking up), pumped tyre up, left it overnight. No loss of pressure. Rode bike at FoD. No loss of pressure. Rode bike to work, three times. On the 4th morning, tyre completely flat. Drove to work. That evening I pumped tyre up and dunked in bath; no bubbles. Left it overnight. Tyre completely flat. Pumped it back up and dunked it. Valve leaking. Tightened valve. Spokes leaking. Popped tyre off rim, removed valve, cleaned bung, refitted, pumped up, dunked; different spokes leaking. FFS! Had strop and chucked bike in garage. On Sunday, back to the FoD, pumped tyre to 35psi and rode 10 miles. Tyre at 27psi.  Monday night, checked tyre; 24psi. Tuesday night, checked tyre; 24psi. WTAF is going on?

It's the lack of consistency that's getting to me.

molgrips, are you suggesting that using a non-tubeless-ready rim and a strip is better than a tubeless ready rim and tape?  I used that in the days before tubeless ready was a thing (and the other option was UST) and didn't find it worked so well and was very dependent on the precise rim profile.  But that was with floppy-beaded non-tubeless tyres as well.

Living in an area that come summer is paved almost entirely with brambles and gorse, tubeless has been an absolute delight.

I've had my fair share of sweary episodes with some tyre/rim combos, but never not been able to get something airtight eventually.

It just means I can ride and not have a thorn puncture one, two or often more times per ride.

It is probably the best development in modern MTBing (IMHO).

You can sew them with dental floss and or patch and they still will work with tubeless.

Mushroom plugs buddy, awesome.

Didn't know people still sold rim strips!

Having had no issues with cheapo OEM non TR rims through to modern ones I see no need really. Just don't scrimp on the taping.

I was out on a road ride on Sunday with my tubeless road bike.

I stopped to make a phone call, and this guy on a bike pulled in to the same spot, with a puncture.

"Got everything you need?" I asked. "Yes, thanks".

OK, back to making my phone call.

Bit later he was pumping up his tyre, but it was obviously flat as well. "Need any help? Do you need a spare tube?" I asked, "No, I'll just patch it."

Then, a bit later, a sheepish, "Yeah, could I get that tube off you, looks like my glue has dried up."

Pumped up tube, and away he went. I took his dead tube - I was confident I wouldn't actually need it.

Yes, it's a faff. But it's a faff at home, where you have easy access to spare parts and beer.

I don’t own, and have never used, any sort of Airshot/compressor etc, only ever a track pump.

Can I borrow ya track pump then?

It's ovbiously a tyre/rim thing cos I've NEVER managed to seat a tyre with my track pump (shit BBB pump, Maxxis Advantage Exception tyres & Crest rims.) But always been 1st time with CO2 & lately with a home made ex fire extinguisher/ghetto job.

I'm sticking to tubeless on the FS but can't be arsed on the HT cos where I ride that doesn't warrant it.

I have a coke bottle, it works pretty well when a track pump has failed. But the tyre lever method also works far better than you might expect, considering all you need is a tyre lever.

Nah, it’s shit, it’s always been shit but if you dare say it out loud you’re just shouted down and victim blamed by the true believers.

Yes, it’s a (tiny bit of a) faff. But it’s a faff at home, where you have easy access to spare parts and beer.

This is it for me - even if it's twice the time spent, it's not in the pissing rain, covered in greasy mud and getting dark with no lights or whatever tickles your fancy

Between the four of us in our house we've got loads of bikes.

Race bikes are all tubeless, wouldn't consider using tubes. In years of racing on tubeless clinchers for XC and CX I've had two issues - one in CX where someone in mid first-lap-madness managed to ride over my tyre and unseat it enough to flatten it, the other in an XC race where I cased a jump quite badly and burped a whole load of air out of the rear (and hadn't taped a CO2 canister). Other than that, hassle free for racing and for CX I use tub pressures with complete confidence.

Away from racing, I've slashed a tyre and had one or two punctures that needed an anchovy but anything else the sealant has dealt with.

The kids used to get punctures a fair bit. Tubeless has taken all that hassle away. There's still a few wheels to get done, but I'll get there.

Negatives? No denying that setting it up properly takes care. Some rim/tyre combos are easy, some less so. Loss of air, either through spoke holes or at the valve are nearly always down to something not right with the tape. I use one layer of electrical tape and one of gorilla tape, often trimmed to fit the width. It's the bit that's worth taking time over, but you can do this in the comfort of your own home (as others have pointed out).

The other negative for me - and it might just be down to my choice of tyres - but the tubeless tyres (set up tubeless) don't last as long.

Originally I used a fizzy pop bottle and that worked pretty well but you needed the bench vice or mole grips. The lovely Mrs Tyred bought me a JoeBlow tubeless beast pump and it's ace.

Wouldn't claim tubeless is perfect in every way for everyone, but my heart would sink at having to go back to tubes.

“Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape”

What?!! I’ve never done this in years of tubeless. The tape on my rims lasts until a spoke goes (once in the last five years).

There definitely is faff with tubeless tyres, but it's at home in a nice dry garage/shed where you can take your time, rather than a trail side disaster every few rides, pissing about pumping up tubes while everyone waits for "Billy oldskool" and his dark ages tech...

Then to top it all off, they carry a spare inner tube just in case

And??...

Lines of defence innit, first line is sealant, second is an anchovy, those first two measures significantly reduce the likelihood of you needing to take the tyre off trail side at all. But yep if all else fails you've still got that spare tube, it's not like you didn't carry a spare tube before... Of course if you holed a tube on a ride you either had a spare or a patch to fit which was far more mid-ride faff while you whipped the wheel out and had to get the tyre off...

The general consensus is that tubeless is many times better than tubes ever were in terms of grip, rolling resistance, comfort and resisting flats it's not perfect, but very few things are. I still question the need for it on the road but even there the system seems to be getting refined now...

“Changing tyres equals a 50% chance you’ll nick the tape”

What?!! I’ve never done this in years of tubeless. The tape on my rims lasts until a spoke goes (once in the last five years).

If you unluckily get one of those bastard new tyre/rim combinations where the tyre just wont go on, you need tyre levers, and metal ones at that.  With the new style lower rim walls, the end of the lever can touch the tape.  I also suspect that on one occasion I had this problem, the tyre grabbed the tape so hard once it did land when it finally went on that it moved the tape over a bit.  Inflating the tyre with a tube to stretch the bead, greasing the rim wall/tyre bead/ tape at the problem final point would also prevent it.  Its a new tyre problem, but it does exist.

The general consensus is that tubeless is many times better than tubes ever were in terms of grip, rolling resistance, comfort and resisting flats it’s not perfect, but very few things are. I still question the need for it on the road but even there the system seems to be getting refined now…

Perfectly put sir.

People get annoyed when you say tubeless is shit, because lots of us use it.  If it were really shit, we'd have to be stupid to continue using it.  Therefore it amounts to calling us stupid...

Tubeless can be a faff, but so could judging whether the rubber cement you'd applied to the inner tube - hopefully in the spot that you'd marked with your little yellow crayon as being where the puncture was - was tacky enough that the patch would stick to the wet inner tube first time so you could hold it firmly in place for several minutes and then cover it with a dusting of chalk for no reason before attempting to get the tube back into the tyre and the tyre seated without the tube being stuck under the bead and without using a lever which could easily nick the tube and then pumping up the tyre again and hoping that you wouldn't hear that satisfied ejaculatory "wifff!" sound as the patch let go...

The whole tubeless thing has passed me by woooosh

Is there a system - like car/motorcycle tyres - where the beads snap on to the rim? Is that UST?

I was track pump only till my last tyre change, couldn't get up a previously proven combo, think it might have got a bit baggy. Changed to a tubeless (i.e. chambered) track pump and it was fine.

Both my MTBs are tubeless, still carry a spare tube just in case but haven't needed it in ages

People get annoyed when you say tubeless is shit

I don't get annoyed... more amazed that people are still using tubes. Good luck to em. Hope I don't have to wait on a ride while they do what BigDummy describes! 😆

Had a bit of "fun" this morning with a couple of tubeless setups. Both it turns out were tape related. The rear wheel on the Spearfish had gone flat before we went on our hols so had to retape, seat the tyre, add sealant and inflate. Not a problem with that one.

The second one was a tyre on my single speed. When I'd put this on it stayed inflated first time without sealant but now it wouldn't stay inflated for more than five seconds 🙁 The tyre hasn't been messed with since I put it on nearly a year ago. A right battle to get the thing off the rim and the tape is all scrunched up in the well of the rim. Remove, clean up and apply new tape. The tyre goes on by hand (?) and inflates/pops first time. Add sealant and put back on bike and have a ride around. It seems to be holding, so far!

Funny, i never had any problem with my tubeless setup for a whole year until my back tyre decided to randomly deflate on the first day of my holiday. Tracked the problem to leak around the valve. Put a tube in for the remainder of the week. On return, stripped wheel, replaced all the tape, refitted valve, added sealant, reinflated, sealed etc. Tyre flat the next morning. Still leaking at the valve. Tried a new valve but still the same. Looked on CRC for different design of valve that might fit better. Find loads of complaints for all sorts about leakage around the valve.

Today, it’s the same discussion on here. Until 2 weeks ago I’d never even considered it.

"Leak around the valve" just means a leak somewhere. The valve is the easiest place for air to escape so it'll appear to be a valve issue, although it's more likely to be air getting under the tape somewhere else.

The general consensus is that tubeless is many times better than tubes ever were in terms of grip, rolling resistance, comfort and resisting flats it’s not perfect, but very few things are. I still question the need for it on the road but even there the system seems to be getting refined now…

See, this is the thing that I've never got my head around how? What magic goes on to allow this, because as far as I can tell it's only stated performance benefit is the ability to run lower pressures without risk of pinch flatting. I don't see how having your air seal in an almost liquid state instead of a solid state would do any of that? I mean I can run my tyres to the points I'm getting side wall wear and it handles like complete crap.

as far as I can tell it’s only stated performance benefit is the ability to run lower pressures without risk of pinch flatting

Lower pressure generally also gives better grip and comfort, even with a tube in running lower pressures gives these benefits.

Also, various tests have shown that a wider tyre at lower pressures = lower rolling resistance.

3) Get some Stan’s

4) You MAY need some means of inflating rapidly like CO2 or Airshot.  But CO2 works fine

Co2 and Stan's doesn't play well together. If you need to use a co2 cartridge then do it before you add the stans, just to set the bead.

Tubeless has passed me by too. I suspect that if I gave it a go it'd be about 2 hours of initial faffing, trial and error, then finally getting it set up. And it'd probably work OK. But I've never got round to investing the time, money or effort; the benefits have never really sounded compelling enough.

Three weeks ago I got a new rear wheel (Hope XC), fitted Gorilla Tape and then mounted up a Bontrager XR2 tubeless – just used a track pump. Went for a quick ride just to get the sealant spread around. Topped up the sealant. Two days later we headed out to France. I pumped up the tyre to a bit higher than normal and we set off. After two weeks of riding I thought the tyre was getting a bit soft so I put a bit of air in.

This sounds great but... it sounds exactly the same as riding with tubes, but with more sticky gunk.

Probably a lot of it is about where and what you ride, and I'm definitely not in the same league as some riders. But for what I ride (hardtail on local trails), tubes work fine. I get a puncture once in a blue moon, and it's 10 minutes to swap a tube in, eat a biscuit, and get back on the move.

Co2 and Stan’s doesn’t play well together.

People say this, but I used it for a decade with no issues. Of course I had the valve at the top so the CO2 didn't bubble through the fluid...

See, this is the thing that I’ve never got my head around how?

The tyre is much thinner, and there's only one layer. The tube and tyre take more energy to deform, and they run against each other slightly which creates friction and costs energy.

You can run lower pressures (or at least I can) because you are much less likely to pinch puncture. This means that the tyre carcass can deform over stones and smooth them out, which makes it both much more comfortable and more efficient on rough ground.

Have you ridden a bike with tubeless?

Just put a new tyre on a Stans Flow Ex rim....

Took off old tyre, tape was a bit pulled up edges so retaped.

Got new tyre on pretty easily (Vee Tyre Crown gem 2.8 if you're interested) and tried to pump up with track pump, but had air escaping at valve.

Tried inflator, but still had air escaping.

Realised valve wasn't pulled through fully, so tightened it up.

Retried with track pump and the bead popped on no probs.

Added sealant and valve core, pumped up and airtight.

Whole process took no more than 30 mins, and I had a cup of tea and a donut whilst doing it 😉

I really like tubeless and had never had an issue with just chucking tyre on and pumping it up with track pump* until this weekend when the Mrs ripped a side wall on the first of three days riding. Bought a new WTB Vigilante from the shop at BPW, chucked it on but wouldn't go up with a track pump, charger pump or the shops compressor!

Got it up once home but had to seat the tyre with a tube first and then it went up with the Airshot once one side of the bead was seated. Still up this morning so I'm hoping it was a blip.

First trip away this year that I've forgot to take a spare tyre and sealant as well, doh!

* Aways used tubless rims (stans or easton with tesla tape) and a mixture of Maxxis, Schwalbe or Specialized tyres.

Edit: And the reasons that tubeless is great is punctures. I used to get at least on a ride in the rear running 30+ psi and the last time I topped up the sealant on the hardtail, I pulled three bits of metal, a nail and a couple of thorns out the tyre, all would have burst a tube.

Oh, and the reasons that tubeless is great is punctures or the lack of. I used to get at least on a ride in the rear running 30+ psi and the last time I topped up the sealant on the hardtail, I pulled three bits of metal, a nail and a couple of thorns out the tyre, all would have burst a tube.

Nah, it’s shit, it’s always been shit but if you dare say it out loud you’re just shouted down and victim blamed by the true believers

Not sure what you mean but you sound a little fragile emotionnaly. I don't know what a true believer is but can't people rationally share their experience ?

I only started 18 months ago as tired of getting weekly punctures. I have had the grand total of zero since then.

Setting up for me has been super easy. I only just changed my wheels and switching the TL tyres took a matter of minutes.

They seem to hardly lose any air compared to tubes too.

I don't see what the problem is and I cant understand the rationale for using tubes. I can only assume that user error or cost cutting or both can lead to a different outcome. Not to mention resistance to change.

Gamechanger for me, I love it.

Sealant would of easily sorted the mess a 4 inch nail left in my tyre on the weekend, that is if the nail had not punched a hole in the rim at the same time.

People say this, but I used it for a decade with no issues. Of course I had the valve at the top so the CO2 didn’t bubble through the fluid…

It can still shorten the lifespan even if it doesn't create a staminal, and these no reason why you would need to risk it. set the bead, then add the sealant, and then it shouldn't need a compressor or cartridge to go back up, a track pump will suffice.

Bloody love tubeless!  No more pinch flats! No more thorn flats! Lower pressure

I have never failed to get a tyre to seat with a track pump even the 2.5 minion I fitted last night that I thought was too baggy went up first time and stayed up.

The only time I have found that they go down is when the sealant gets a bit tired but that's easily sorted.

I run 2.1s with 25psi, and I'm 87kg.

Also, various tests have shown that a wider tyre at lower pressures = lower rolling resistance.

How can this be? Not disagreeing, but curious

I thought it was the wider tyre at the same pressure was lower RR, at least on road.

Off road, lower pressures are clearly lower RR for me, because you get bounced offline less. Most noticeable on technical rocky climbs.

Off road, lower pressures are clearly lower RR for me

Same on road but to a lesser extent.  Unless you cycle on a polished marble surface there will be bumps and imperfections that absorbed by the lower pressure tyre rather than taken as an impact.

Tubeless has always been great for me as I live in an area where I got a lot of punctures (Punctured an armadillo last week).  Unfortunately back on higher pressure 23c tyres nowadays and couldn't get tubeless to work at high pressure although admittedly was not using a tubeless tyre.

I can't get that a softer tyre has lower rolling resistance - yeah, it might hold a better line etc and overall sometimes quicker, but actual rolling resistance HAS to be higher

All I can add to this is that I’ve been using tubeless (ghetto at that) for the last eight years and it’s transfomed where I can ride, especially in Greece, where they have thorns like no other. Before that, every ride was either interrupted by puncture repairing or else, when you thought you’d got lucky and escaped, the next day you’d go to get your bike and find both tyres flat....

Go back to tubes? Not a hope in hell.

When I’ve changed tyres I’ve counted over twenty thorns that have remained in the tyre. Every one a puncture with tubes.

Is there a system – like car/motorcycle tyres – where the beads snap on to the rim? Is that UST?

Ust does have a bit where the bead sits bit so do the other tubeless ready rims I have. You still need a blast of air to seat the bead most of the time though. (I did seat my first tyres without but had to build up the rim bed quite a lot making fitting/removing tyres seriously hard work).

I think I’m ok at setting up tubeless - in fact, I regularly set up tubeless tyres for a few of my friends as well.

However, I have still had a few issues in the past - setting up Maxxis DH tyres quite a few years ago was one and recently it took me 3 attempts per wheel to set up Vee Rubber gravity tyres.  I also have managed to damage tape removing my tyres and most often it’s been the tyre bead that’s done the damage.

Despite the above, most often I have managed to set tubeless up with a pump - although I do have an Airshot.  I’ve found a few simple tricks have addressed most issues.

- Soaping the tyre bead to make it easier to slip over the tape

- Either ensuring the bead sits in the middle of the rim or snug against the rim wall.  That depends on the rim and tyre combo

- Doing the Stans dance properly

Why do I persist - even when it’s been painful

1). More grip.  A lot more grip!

2). Tyre rolls better - feels a lot faster

3). More comfortable.  The tyre can be run effectively at a lower pressure, making it absorb bumps better

4). The longest gap between punctures I have ever had.  I have gone as long as five years - yes, FIVE YEARS, without a puncture.

I can’t get that a softer tyre has lower rolling resistance – yeah, it might hold a better line etc and overall sometimes quicker, but actual rolling resistance HAS to be higher

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/tire-pressure-take-home/

I was a bit wary of going tubeless, mainly due to the percieved faffage many seems to have.

Once I'd got hold of some cheap TL rims, and tyres, there was no holding me back.  Electrical tape for the rim sealing, inflation with a regular track pump, satisfying pop of the bead.  They were even staying up for a decent amount of time without sealant.  First time up to full pressure with sealant and they leaked over about 2 days.  One more re-inflation, and that was it.

The feel is different, better in all areas,  But then that could be down to just the tyre type being different, as I never used the TL tyres with tubes in.

I was a complete newbie with tubeless until the beginning of the year. Got a new bike and thought now's the time to do it. I was a bit apprehensive because of all the stories about set up problems and I only had a track pump, no compressor or airshot or anything like that.

You just have to take it slowly. Taped up the rim, that was easy. Then the trick I discovered was to do test runs. I put the tyre on the rim and tried to inflate it without sealant in first to see if it was possible. That didn't happen, so I put a tube in and inflated that, then deflated it and popped one bead off, then tried to inflate it again without the tube and bingo, it worked. So all I had to do after that was pop one bead again, pour the sealant in and re-inflate and it was totally fine. This was with non TR HR2s as well.

I literally just yesterday popped on some fresh tyres, Mary up front and DHRII in back and the tubes trick worked again like a beaut. I might invest in an airshot in the future just to cut the tubes step out of the equation, but it works and that's what matters. Tubeless is wonderful.

I can’t get that a softer tyre has lower rolling resistance – yeah, it might hold a better line etc and overall sometimes quicker, but actual rolling resistance HAS to be higher

In theory yes but in practice as kerley says, the increased resistance on a totally smooth surface is offset many times over by the decrease in resistance over bumps.  Which, as MTBers, we seem to get all the time.

SaxonRider has 27.5 x 3.0s on his bike *with tubes* at 15psi or so and he weighs less than I do, but on a typical stony descent that an MTBer would consider smooth, he just rolls away from me on my 29 x 2.35s with 25psi.  I have to pedal to keep up.  Both fully rigid.

Is there a system – like car/motorcycle tyres – where the beads snap on to the rim? Is that UST?

The rim strips I use provide this - a little spot to hold the bead next to the edge of the rim.  It means I never get burps.  Not from my tyres at least.

I've only ever had one puncture using tubeless in about 12 years.  That was in 2010 I think.