[Closed] Training: Balancing on the bike volume with gym work. How?

I don't do the Gym. Partly cost/time, but mostly any exercise time I get, I would rather be out on the bike, pretty much irrespective of the weather. I do some running, which isn't especially core-oriented either, but mixes it up a bit. I guess I'm fairly fortunate in being fairly fit/slim and don't have a history of back problems etc, but at 50 years old, do get aches, niggles, stiffness etc. At the moment I keep that at bay by post ride stretching, and when I remember, just a few reps of sit ups, planks, press ups at home. That works for me currently ... Sure I would benefit from a couple of structured gym/weight sessions a week but as already said, would prefer to be out on the bike ...

I'm a desk jockey too. Personally I alternate each day between weight/gym work and cardio. In the drier months the cardio tends to be mainly riding, in the winter it's more, cross trainer, running machine and exercise bike.

I find alternating each day gives the different muscle groups enough recovery time, 46 hours or so,  before their next session.

What are you trying to achieve and where are you in your macro / micro cycle?

Classic advice, which is pretty reliable is that you specificity of training is king - and that the closer you get to your goal, the more specific your training should be. Therefore, if we were talking about your average part-time road racer (cat 2-4 e.t.c), they would typically have a macro cycle that might look like (as an example)

Sept-Nov - Deload / Movement pattern work / crosstraining
Nov - Feb - Base - big volume and here you'd fit in as much lifting work as you needed for your goals functionally
Feb-May - Build - here you would be tailing off the lifting, maybe one session a week
May - August - Specific / Race season - no lifting

But if you aren't racing, what are your goals? Why are you spending 8-14hrs TRAINING a week? Do you need that much volume for your goals? By this time in the year it should be lower volume and higher intensity?

Personally I ensure I lift twice a week whenever in the season because I need to to keep my strength for work, cross train and to maintain a healthy and pain-free lifestyle. In the off-season I will lift three or four times a week as I build pure strength.

In short: it depends on your goals. If you want to win races and you are racing right now or the summer season, right now you should be doing the MINIMUM of cross training required to stay healthy and efficient (no more than 2 sessions a week probably). If you aren't racing and your goals are generally - health, being able to ride longer e.t.c. then I would stop worrying about such a huge bike volume and focus on building a strong chassis - let your bike fitness drop off a bit until you get into a proper bike training cycle for a specific goal - be it a race or a big ride.

HTH

Winter is gym 3 times a week, hard weight training,  plus xc skiing and or/ turbo.

Summer is weights on Monday morning 6am, 1.5 hours, a little lighter than what I was doing in the winter, for maintenance.   Riding during the week, Friday afternoon circuit training with a lot of core work,takes 45 mins. then DH/ uplifts at the weekend.

so yes, weights work in winter, maintain it in summer but not so it impacts riding.

@Continuity - that does help, thank you.

Goals are not racing yet, although as my fitness is improving nicely I am half-contemplating some sort of old farts racing. Problem is that I didn't really start training to late March, so out of sync with more sensible cycles.

The actual goal is one of those crazy Euro Radmarathons in late summer - 240km/5k climbing. I just know that I need to get a) get the miles in b) get a bit leaner still c) make sure that I have the all round physical preparedness to withstand 10 or so hours in the saddle without getting destroyed. Gotta get the gym work in.

@continuity - that pattern you've outlined, is that yours or one you've read about? You sound knowledgable - care to recommend any reading, please?

Try the recommended routine, it'll whip you into shape in no time, or sideline you for months with tendonitis from over doing it, one of the two. There's even a FAQ entry on how to combine it with cardio.

@k1100t - that actually looks awesome. Have you done it yourself?

Ok - well then if that's your goal I can understand the volume, but much like training for a marathon, too much volume can be counterproductive. What I mean by that is - 10 hours in the saddle is going to hurt, no matter what. Probably the most important factors there will be bike admin and nutrition - not necessarily fitness.

The pattern I outlined is a basic cycling season that most european riders will follow in some way or another. Obviously - pro continental and above will start racing a lot earlier (Tour down under, Dubai e.t.c) and so they may be moving towards specificity a lot earlier than say, a british cat 1 whose first race is april 25th (for example). Equally, if you're Vincenzo Nibali, you're trying to peak mid summer for the Tour and so you may still be using these early races as part of your training rather than all out. If you're chris froome, you're trying for what's called a double peak - which is very, very hard to do physiologically, but one of the reasons his training is so unique but also one of the reasons his sucess is so impressive.

https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/cycling-training-for-results-periodization/ is a helpful introduction to sports periodisation. Have a read and see how you think you could apply it to cycling. This is basic exercise science. If you dont want to put the time in, maybe have a look at one of the plans through something like trainerroad or trainingpeaks?

I do some running, which isn’t especially core-oriented either

It is if you're doing it right... running starts with a strong core to drive the legs from the hips

@brexitrefugee yes, I started last summer, as my body has issues... Ended up getting gymnastic rings and learning how to handstand etc, etc. If you're young then you can progress fairly rapidly, as I'm mid forties and mildly broken, progress was painfully slow. Currently not doing it, as I managed to pick up golfers elbow, tennis elbow and tricep tendonitis, all on the same side. 🤦‍♂️

It takes about an hour to an hour and a half, depending on how fast you rattle through it and you can do it at home with minimal equipment. Although once you get proficient, you'll need a pull up bar and dip station, or somewhere to hang your rings.

Planning on getting back into it later in the year, currently the lure of outside is too strong...

For general cycling fitness then lots of gym work could be a bit overkill anyway. If you don't have a specific weakness to target the you might find that some regular bodyweight only exercises are just as effective and easier to incorporate into your life.

I'm really pushed for time at the moment (new baby) but manage to do 3 x 20-30 min core sessions a week in my front room. I use the sessions from the Tom Danielson Core Advantage book - youtube has lots of suggestions too. I've found it's eliminated a lot of aches/pains as well as allowing me to keep better form on the bike. I think it's made me a more efficient rider and overall my body feels more robust.

I did do a season where I followed the gym sessions prescribed in Joe Friel's cyclist training bible. I'm not convinced that there was much improvement with those workouts over just doing body-weight stuff. Certainly not enough for me to justify the time/expense of dedicated gym work.

"Volume is king and all that."

That is not necessarily true. Its about quality not quantity and depends largely on what your goals are.

I'm in a similar position to you, but lucky that I have a gym basically on my doorstep at work, so do classes at the gym - spin, abs and circuits/body pump - aim for 5 sessions a week, but usually only manage 3. Gave up 'pumping iron' a few years ago as I wanted to lose some mass and get leaner for the bike, and find the classes work well and  complement the cycling (MTB and road). Abs obviously for the core and is THE most important activity. Everything works off the core so if your core is crap you'll always struggle and your aches and pains will be due to crap core and lack of flexibility. Spin good for the high intensity and power stuff and circuits/body pump for a good all round bit of exercise.

I try to chuck in a few commutes a week to get my mileage up as I'm very limited on time and struggle to get a lot of saddle time, so need to be very focussed with my training. Don't' forget flexibility too. When watching telly in the  evening I'll sit on the floor and stretch out to keep the hamstrings supple and flexibility there. Like core training, not just good for cycling, but life in general.

i've changed my weights/gym (it used to be 1.5 hrs 3 times a week pushing bigger weights)

I've gone much lighter more reps at a much higher "intensity"  for 30 mins 3/4 times a week.... for me...

1. it's safer when there's no one to spot for you

2. i get less injures (pulls and strains)

3. i'm less tired at the end of the week when combined with riding

4. you can ride before or after on the same day as you  are not completely spent

5. it's easier to pick up again if you've been lazy or away

6. you can do it consecutive days if you want (though you can with heavier weights it just not as much "strain")

7. I feel better for it

8. You reduce your strength gains by several multiple factors.

The same remains for bodyweight training. Calisthenics are largely not a major part of professional athletic training (with few exceptions) because they just don't cause the body functional stimulus.

I mean if you enjoy them fine, but don't kid yourself that they can replace a proper power rack and Olympic bar.

It's all down to your individual goals. What do you want to achieve? Then select the most efficient way of doing it that you can adhere to and supply with the correct nutrition. Everything else is angels dancing on pins.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/bike-kit/article/izn20160113-Ask-the-experts-How-to--Beginner-strength-exercises-for-cyclists-0

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/training-plans/intermediate-advanced