TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

Daft question maybe, but is there a simple way to get Trainer Road to sit on top of Windows Media Player when the latter is set to Full-screen? Obviously I set TR to sit on top and have it displayed horizontally, but if I maximise Media Player, I lose TR and when I toggle back to see TR, I lose Media Player in Full-screen.

Started TR in Dec with Sweet Spot Base Low Vol 1, but a cold kept me back a little. Now back on it and enjoying it. I am consistently ahead of my target power for now, so maybe I have carried over a little more base from spinning and night riding than I thought. I am also learning how to spin properly and be in the correct gear to maintain a decent RPM. I seem to happily spin at 80-90 RPm but have to be in a really low gear to spin 100 RPM.

Can't help with the Media Player question as I'm on a Mac. You don't say what your set-up is but could you get a second monitor and have MP on one and TR on the other?

The Obelisk workout I linked to earlier has on-screen hints on how to spin and avoid bouncing, it does require a bit of concentration at first to understand what forces are being applied and when. I found that it didn't take long to go from starting to bounce at 95rpm to not starting bouncing at nearly 120rpm, by "not long" I mean within the one session. The trick will be to repeat it over multiple sessions so that the muscle memory kicks in and I don't have to consciously think about it.

Regarding the on screen prompts. My first session on sweet spot base low 1 there were loads of prompts, having done session 2 and 3 I haven't seen any since. Are they just on random sessions or does every session have some, if so then I've somehow turned them off

I was thinking much the same about prompts - definitely makes sense to read through the session in advance so you k ow what you're meant to be doing (for example - big gear from a complete stop)

2 screen TR setup definitely has a place in my future!

You can filter the workouts to just those with instructions: on the "Workout Library" page scroll down, it's the next to last block of filter options.

How do you read through the session in advance? There's the general description but I haven't (yet) found a way to show the actual instructions without actually doing the workout.

I just mean that general description. The ones I've read so far all give a good idea what you should be doing during the different intervals

Be useful to know for me as well.

I've the app on my iPad and it just sits on the bed to the side of the bike, so if I'm not looking at it then I can miss prompts or hints as to what to do. On the TR forums there's a request for some form of beep/alarm so you know when a prompt is about to appear which would be useful. So long as I could hear it over the music 8)

Thanks Dunmail, I shall check out Obelisk and Birch. I can spin for short periods but just need to train myself out of mashing a bigger or harder gear, so i can survive longer rides on the road.

I could run TR on my phone, but I like the horizontal bar. It would be nice to lock it in place so you can have Media Player, Iplayer etc running in their full screen.

I know what you mean. I've hardly been out on the road this year - a mixture of ice and high winds hasn't been ideal. I do tend to mix it up on the roads, I'll head out and deliberately keep in a low gear and spin or conversely keep in the big ring for an entire ride to encourage power. It does help in the latter case if you know how long a hill goes on for and what it's rough profile is 8)

You'll have a "natural" cadence, though it actually seems to be the cadence you've accustomed yourself to rather than one that's hard wired in to your body. Find a section of road that you know and that you normally pedal in a big gear but drop down one gear and try and keep the same speed going. Practice is the only way you'll change things.

I could run TR on my phone, but I like the horizontal bar. It would be nice to lock it in place so you can have Media Player, Iplayer etc running in their full screen.

I can get Netflix running full screen no problem at all, will be to try other players and see if they cause more of an issue

LTHR help please.
Just done a 30 min LTHR test (within TR 20 min test):
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1495780-20-Minute-Test
TR suggests new LTHR should be 166
but according to:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones
It should be 175 for me. I presume thats the better one to take as this was a specific LTHR 30 min test i did?
Cheers
jon

Just started tr this week and its going ok. Low volume sweet spot after 8 min test earlier this week. Quick question. My session is pausing and restarting again immediatley. Am i getting drop out in the signal to the ant usb dongle.Run my garmin alongside and that is fine. Laptop is about 2" from top of front wheel so not miles from sensors. Thanks

It should be 175 for me. I presume thats the better one to take as this was a specific LTHR 30 min test i did?

Looking at that trace I'd say yours was somewhere around 173. It ramps up for the first 10 mins or so then flattens out a bit at around 173 to 175, then starts to ramp up again.

Well, my data finally found its way to Training Peaks. Turns out I average about 700 TSS a week / 7 hours.

Without commuting, is this good or bad?

Is there an easy way to get data from Strava to Training Peaks? Or does Strava premium give much the same info as a free Training Peaks account?

Quite a lot of intensity there Kryton if you are averaging 100TSS an hour. I do about 600 over about 9 hours at the moment.

Edit: does that include HR based TSS figures? They can be out by quite a bit.

700 is pretty damn high, especially for 7 hours, as 100 is equal to one hour at max. So that's every session at 100%.

7 hours for me would be around 500 to 550.

Be interested to see the spread of that TSS. There aren't many TR sessions with an IF of more than 1.

somewhere around 173

Apologies, 173 I refer to is FTHR. Look up the difference between that at LTHR which will be lower and can't actually be determined properly without a lab test. Though there are ways of estimating.

Ha Ha! A slip of the finger should be 500. Here's an excerpt from December bearing in mind I'm missing a ride in the middle week and a Sunday distance in the first week as I was ill with that chest infection:

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Just looking at the miles time etc i would say thats more than double the TSS than it should be, either that or mine is way under half what it should be 🙂

It feels suspiciously high. I'm using virtual power on TR and no power meter on anything that's a ride. All my settings are right.

Mr B, as far as I can see with quick search:
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/04/determining-your-lthr.html
FTHR is the Same as LTHR?
Anyways I understand it to be my HR I can hold for maybe 1/2 - 1 hr without going in the red.

Kryton
I have just migrated to TP and did a CP30min test, to get my LTHR so I can put more accurate HR zones in TP. Try this and you may get more accurate HrTSS scores. It won't take effect on old rides I think, unless you delete them and re-upload. But does make a big difference on your scores?
Hence why u need a power meter really 😉

Kryton, do you think the TSS for the rides without a PM are realistic? I always found the HR based TSS to be on the high side, probably because I hadn't set my HR zones properly. Ended up getting another PM in the end to make it all as consistent as possible.

FTHR is the Same as LTHR?

I think it can be an approximation but it's not the same.

Quick hijack - I've been following this thread with interest and am going to give trainerroad a go. However, my turbo is set up in the shed at the bottom of the garden which will be too far for me to get a decent wireless signal - once TR is set up and the workouts saved do you need an internet connection? I'm assuming not.....

No, you just need a connection to download the workouts, after that it's just a case of connecting roughly once a month to renew the key that lets you access the workouts.

Nice one, thanks for confirming.

Shortbread - no. You run the content from a local app although that needs to get the dat from the Internet when it loads, and later as it saves you workout. But between times you'll be fine.

Mr blobby, no idea but I'm working to the plans / as much as time allows I'm not using TSS to judge my effort or tiredness, and on that basis I'm not willing to throw £500-£1000 at the issue.

Kryton,
Just as curious as you so re-loaded old files after I updated more accurate HR zones. Its quite a difference. Bottom red is new updated TSS scores.
So if you really are interested in getting more accurate HrTSS scores for no money, do a 30 min test, & update HR zones in TP. Worth it for free 😉
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@jonno101, interesting thanks!

Indeed thanks. What's this 30 minute test?

It would seem obvious that you need the HR zones set up properly to get a decent TSShr value but it took me a while to realise! Interesting that a PowerCal seems to do it on the fly without setup, probably somehow just works out the zones as it goes.

Kryton, 30 min test is much like the 20 min test but 10 mins longer 🙂 Just meant to help establish your FTHR.

I've used training peaks for almost 3 years now. The first 2 were training to HR, the last year to power (but still wear hr strap). My TSS to power is lower than it was to HR (even though my HR zones were right). My recovery ride to power gives me TSS of around 13, using my HR strap but no power is 40. I think the TSS was originally set up for power & adapted for HR, so power is the most accurate TSS as long as zones are set right (set threshold too low & you'll get massive TSS compared to what it really is).

I think it's pretty useful data from training peaks in general, the performance management chart is good.

This 30 minute test, do you only use the average HR for the final 20?

Anyways, finished a lot stronger in my crit today so happy so far 🙂

Dgoab, that was my experience too. Reckon mixing HR TSS and power TSS can give some misleading figures. Best use one or the other if you can. Curiously I found the PowerCal TSS to be more reasonable than the TP TSShr.

Performance management chart is good stuff. The stuff on coupling and efficiency is really interesting too.

Well, I copied in my LT etc the night before last, and todays crit revealed a TSS of 119 - 35kph average over 51 mins is much more realistic.

I too had my first crit of the season and considering how ill I was from Nov to Dec did so much better than a year ago - hey TrainerRoad works!

Good to meet TiRed today also.

Still seems high,

This was an hours workout last week, windy, flat

Of course TSS is individual

Average watts was 273, max 672
Heart Rate Av 176, max 193

I guess all that matters is consistency of the data

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35kph over 52 minutes today gives me a hrTSS of 99.3

176 average HR and 188 max, no idea on power but it hurt a bit.

35kph over 52 minutes today gives me a hrTSS of 99.3

176 average HR and 188 max, no idea on power but it hurt a bit.

100 TSS is pretty much an hour at threshold so that actually sounds about right.

So, slacking by 0.7 then...

Average watts was 273, max 672
Heart Rate Av 176, max 193

Is there an option to get trainer road to show overall distance for easy session?

Jim, it'll be in the tcx file if you download that, but distance is pretty irrelevant for turbo sessions.

TCX files are just XML files so are plain text, if a little unreadable for most. You can open them up in any text editor, I opened one in LibreOffice so something like MS Word should also be able to read them. The total distance will be near the end of the file and look something like:

<DistanceMeters>24983.17</DistanceMeters>

If you are using ant+ you could just put the garmin on for distance.

Another interesting (for me!) observation from todays ride without PM is once my LTHR/FTHR has been more accurately calculated & updated HR zones across all platforms (Garmin Connect, TP & Strava) is now my garmin calories is almost bang on my Strava? And those two where miles out from each other before...

Did Baxter today - started out in a fairly low gear but began to struggle with the cadence after about an hour so went up a gear.

With doing my FTP test on Wednesday and thus starting the Sweet Spot Base a day late, I'm going to timeshift things and do Goddard tomorrow as Mon, Wed, Fri fits in better for me.

Just to check...

As I'm ending week 4 - recovery - of Novice race ive decided to switch to the new plans as new is better right? Plus doing Slide Mountain today was more interesting the colosseum - is Short Power buildmthe correct replacement?

ive been doing one of the Time Crunched plans.

Went out for a proper ride today for the first time in a long time. My legs felt really good all through the 3hrs, but I struggled with power on the hills using much lower gears than I had in the summer.

Are any of the individual sessions that will help, or is that where there is no substitute for getting out up proper hills?

Have you just lifted your natural cadence, spinning more than before or are you actually slower ?

Complete failure during Sufferfest Local Hero today, mainly due to eating breakfast very early and lunch consisting of soup.

Still even the first 40 minutes done to target power is a good session in itself. Not the most positive way to end an otherwise excellent 4 week block of training.

Ooh well a new week starts tomorrow.

@ FunkyDoc, any time restricted plan is going to show up weaknesses during a 3 hour session, purely because by definition you won't have that base in your legs. However doing things like low cadence power sprints can help, provided your knees are okay with that type of training.

Slower, but I have been off the bike for 1 reason or another for about 3 months.

In summer most of us are faster, it's only natural as generally the riding is more enjoyable ! Have a look at Carson TC if struggling for time as only 30 mins and looks at sweetspot training with a drop in cadence for hill climbing, as said though watch your knees.
I was supposed to be in the third week of mtb plan but a patch of diesel put paid to that, so picking and choosing lighter effort sessions to keep legs working while the bruises and strains clear up....

What the hell is wrong with me? For the third time in a row, I've not been able to complete the 8 minute test, this time producing 1.8w per KG in the ride and a suggested FTP of 180w! Needless to say I am/was way above that, roughly 33% fwiw.

In general I can comfortably finish all the longer intervals up to 95% of FTP - sweet spot, tempo o/u's etc, the closer to FTP the more discomfort, but I've struggled with Givens (3 mins at 120%, 140% and 160% as well, so it appears I've lost my top end - has my FTP plummeted and why?

I've checked everything on the bike, and the only difference from previous is a tyre change from an OEM Giant SR4 to a Michelin Lithion - it can't be that though if I'm finishing everything sub FTP in the plan right?

Haven't you had long standing illness? Not beyond the realm of possibility that the numbers have dropped either through this or the set up change. Ignore the numbers, complete an FTP test and scale from there. Maybe try a 20 minute test for a change as it is easier to get a better reflection of your FTP as you really have to nail an 8 minute test to give a good reflection of 60 minute power? Not much more you can do than that I wouldn't have thought.

Any hints for ILT (isolated leg training)? Did my first session of them last night and really struggled particularly with my right leg (had a total hip replacement on that side 14 months ago). I ended up by using the last five minutes or so just spinning with both legs as a recovery.

Kryton i had something like this last year when i changed the tyre everything was fine for a few rides then i couldn't finish anything, if i did the next day the warm up was hard going. Retested and FTP dropped by 42watts.
When i did a workout that was done a few week earlier at the old FTP my average speed was the same :/

I still don't know what changed. I use a Kurt Kinetic road machine fluid trainer so mot much can change my side.

I could understand a change in watts for what ever reason but when you drop 40 watts and your speed stays the same it doesn't make much sense.

Exited did you recover from it? How?

I can't even sit at my curent Ftp for 2 minutes, I don't get it at all.

This is what happened to me last week - I can't believe that I've dropped off that badly. I still haven't got to the bottom of it. The bike had been off the turbo then back on, so maybe I moved it. Or is there a possibility that TR have been messing with the power curves of the trainers?

Legolam you may have it :

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12869366&start=2920 although thats not for the minoura I'm using.

Somethings up surely...

Calling Trevor.....?

much better day for me today. after failing a session last week, skipping the weekend and failing geiger before work, i came home and did geiger.

more than happy - i think i might have been over reaching on the cadence, going from 105 to 95 feels too hard at first but i finish the intervals much better...

I've sent in a support request asking if they've messed with anything.

I've posted the same on Bike Radar which Trevor does surf sometimes. Legolam, can I ask what workout you were doing? I seem to me fine under indicated FTP, but struggling over it - wondering if thats in common with you?

I first struggled on Jepson ( http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1455791-Jepson).

It was just after I had the bike off the turbo for an outdoor ride, so I'm willing to concede that it might all be down to a slightly different setup. It felt very easy for the first two 8 min intervals, so I got off to check if I'd done up the wheel tight enough in the turbo (it was the same as always, although I think I'd moved the turbo a little on the garage floor). The third interval was waaay more difficult - average heart rate jumped from around 150bpm to 175bpm.

I've not been able to complete any workouts properly since. I'm sure it must be a setup issue because of the sudden jump but can't work out for the life of me what I've done differently.

I've posted it on the main forum as well but I imagine it'd be of particular interest to people on here so is anyone else on Zwift?

It's a MMO game using power (virtual/real) as per trainerroad to determine your speed and thus enable online races. I got accepted onto the beta this week, I think there's 2000 of us in the beta program now so was wondering if there's anybody else using it?

[url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/09/ultra-graphics-trainer.html ]DC Rainmaker review[/url]

[url= http://zwift.com/ ]Zwift[/url]

@ Leglam, your in my ball park here. On November pre- chest infection I completed Lamark - 4x10mins at 225w. Profile steady and flat as a pudding. WHILE I was ill in December I completed Cedric Wright at circa 220w per interval 8mins x 3, a few bumps, mainly smooth but then I had a chest infection.

Today I couldn't hold 220w, and I couldn't hold 240w for more than a minute last Thursday, despite the fact I since raced Saturday, and completed Slide Mountain at 3 x 10min 190w as a recovery ride fairly easily the following day.

So my evidence is showing that any workout even slightly above FTP is really really hard - more than it should be maybe...

I'll let you know when I get a reply from TR. In the meantime, I'm going to reposition my turbo/bike and have another shot at a workout tomorrow after work.

ooof. just did Olancha TC for the first time and it did a good job of trying to kill me...

tyre change from an OEM Giant SR4 to a Michelin Lithion

First week over. Did Keeler needle ( ramps) yesterday evening and it went really well. All good so far and feeling better and able to keep a consistent power. Finding longer intervals just under FTP harder than other parts. The recovery segments are pretty easy!!!.

What the hell is wrong with me? For the third time in a row, I've not been able to complete the 8 minute test,

I had that a few weeks ago, with the 20 minute, almost was like a mental block. I eased off for a bit, dropped my FTP, so I knew i could do some threshold stuff (as it was effectively under my threshold) and stayed at that FTP for a week. did a test last night, and I've gone up 10 points from my original FTP.

you're either too tired, or it's a mental thing.

you're either too tired, or it's a mental thing.

+1

i'm no expert (see list of failed sessions above) but i need to time eating before sessions right. too close and i haven't digested, too long and the energy is gone.

No, that isn't right. There's no way I could easily complete a 3 x 10 minute 225 watt intervals on a Sunday, and then struggle - and I mean in a leg stabbing sick inducing pain kind of way - 2 days later to complete only 15 watts more for two minutes.

Something doesn't add up.

Kryton, I've known my trainer setting to change itself in the app on rare occasions in the past.

Realise you've probably checked this anyway, but just in case...

Kryton, just a thought, has the wheel circumference setting in TR changed? If that's changed then it will have an impact on the speed calculation, and hence the power reported. I notice mine had changed recently to a smaller size (maybe an upgrade thing?) though it didn't bother me as I don't use virtual power. I only noticed when I was comparing Garmin and TR data the other day. I guess this would lead to under-reporting power.

Both - I've checked all that and the Trainers resistance setting - all the same. There is an Adobe upgrade on my Mac which pops up when I load TR's app which I haven't done yet - maybe thats it?

Levels of unusual toughness being reported on bikeradar also.

I've posted the same on Bike Radar which Trevor does surf sometimes. Legolam, can I ask what workout you were doing? I seem to me fine under indicated FTP, but struggling over it - wondering if thats in common with you?

Have you checked that the speed is still the same?
I.e If you download the data and upload into strava it will show you the speed your going at. If you compare an old test to one of your latest tests and find the power is the same, but the speed has gone up, then that would indicate something has gone wrong with the power calculations.