[Closed] Trail Etiquette

Now approaching a Goddess is somewhat different nobody wants to be turned to stone.

Not really that different. You are not approaching her in the street and asking her out, just two cyclists having a chat.

If you have been fantasizing about having a bit of trailside fun then I can see how it could be more difficult to say hello.

Next time you see her give her a cheery hello and try not to look at her tits. 😀

Oh and stop giving way both uphill and downhill, soon you will be putting your riding jacket down for her to avoid the puddles 😆

just a thought, but do you have a go-pro, that way we could have evidence of the route, and her !, to help determine, whose got the right of way !!!

I've got a Contour helmet cam somewhere I did think of that after I posted the 'weirdo taking pictures of me' riposte.

So maybe I should helmet up, it's been too bloody cold for a helmet lately, I'm beanie and hoodied, but it's been getting a bit milder, it's on my watersports helmet maybe I'll dig it out see if I can remember how to work it.

Then again what's the end game here? Not thinking of trying to get yourself turned to stone are you? 😉

It's a sin coveting another mans wife. 😆

dereknightrider - Member
Old Man's fantasy Andy

Not as old as me, matey - and yes, when I'm out on the bike (or anytime really) I'll go out of my way to [s]chat up[/s] talk to an attractive woman.
I'm sure they think "stupid old fart..."

Whilst the climbing rider does have the right or way, its absolutely situation dependent as to whether or not as the climbing rider you exercise your right to it.
Same as yielding the right of way on a descent.. if the climbing rider is pushing, I'd like to think common sense would suggest they move aside regardless of their 'right of way'.
There is still hopefully a considerate speed check in there from the rider descending.

Social etiquette certainly expects that you at least offer a quick greeting and smile at said lovely lady without being a leering perv. 😉

I don't think there's a hard & fast rule really - generally I think that ascender has ROW, however with a quick look it's often easy to work out who it's going to be easier to stop.

It's not about "rules" it's a question of etiquette. Uphill rider has priority, same as for motor vehicles.

I don't buy the classic "uphill rider has right of way" crap. This is mountain biking, we don't live for the climbs...we all know how mad fun the downhills can be, and I'll always give way to someone barreling down a hill. Not only is it easier to stop from 4mph than it is from 20mph, it's just polite to allow the descending rider to enjoy their hard-earned descent! So I hope I don't meet some of you lycra clad xc weirdos riding up my downhill tracks. I'll be padded and likely not come off as bad as you! 😉

That is the law anyway isn't it? Lycra must always give way to baggies, SPD's stand aside for Flats, XC's defer to Enduro and beyond in the downhill spectrum.

If it isn't, then its time the law changed, more I think about it, the more it comes up downhill must have RoW just the stopping distance alone dictates the common sense of it.

Destroy them with our BOMBERS!

That is the law anyway isn't it? Lycra must always give way to baggies, SPD's stand aside for Flats, XC's defer to Enduro and beyond in the downhill spectrum.

If it isn't, then its time the law changed, more I think about it, the more it comes up downhill must have RoW just the stopping distance alone dictates the common sense of it.

Pretty sure I read that in a MTB version of the 'rules'

If I'm going uphill, I'll be staring at my stem Froome-style and trying not to throw up, so I won't even see the enduro gods coming the other way.

Seriously though, some of us do enjoy cleaning the climbs as much as going down the other side. Why not try to enjoy something that forms more than two-thirds of a hilly ride?

martinhutch - Member

Seriously though, some of us do enjoy cleaning the climbs as much as going down the other side.

Even if you enjoy climbing, it's less bother to stop when climbing than when descending- all you need to do is stop pedalling. And you're moving slower so it's far easier to spot places to pull in etc. And you've no momentum to lose whereas coming down you're spending all that gravity you banked earlier. Not to mention that the whole passing thing will be over faster that way. It just seems like the considerate thing and the sensible thing to me.

Actually, it's easier to see places to stop when descending and looking down on the terrain. Plus, as many have already mentioned, it's much easier to get going again when descending than it is when climbing. So descenders stopping just seems like the considerate thing and the sensible thing to me.

Whats "get going" got to do with it? "Get stopping" is surely far more valid for mtbs.

scotroutes - Member

Actually, it's easier to see places to stop when descending and looking down on the terrain

If you're going at the same speed, perhaps. But otherwise not.

Getting going isn't all it takes, you need to get back up to speed and that takes a lot more time and effort when you're going down than when you're going up.

So, she probably won't know any of this and being a kindly old gentleman I shall just tell her when I'm coming down on her I have right of way, I'm sure she'll understand and give way..

I'd agree with the ROW to climbing, unless I'm climbing and need a rest, in which case I'll give way 😉

The higher speed you have, the greater responsibility of care to other trail users. That includes riders climbing the same trail. Giving way to ascending traffic is a general way to go but for riding I don't think either descender or climber should force the line if space is limited, if I'm descending I'll be slowing right down so may as well let them through or take a wide line etc. If there's enough time for the climber to see you and they pull aside, all good but we shouldn't rely on it or assume any 'rights'. You may not like climbing, the other rider may do and be trying to clean it. Old school wierdos and singlespeeders..

jameso - Member

You may not like climbing, the other rider may do and be trying to clean it. Old school wierdos and singlespeeders..

OK so assume both parties are enjoying themselves equally (which on balance won't be the case, but just for argument), and just take it out of the picture... It's still easier and less disruptive and quicker for the person going up to yield.

I'd totally agree about not forcing lines, being extra careful when there's not enough space and not assuming the other person will react how you expect, but those are different issues imo and affect both riders equally.

I N R A T S but IMO uphill rider has right of way, unless its a directional trail.

Northwind - Member
... It's still easier and less disruptive and quicker for the person going up to yield.

that may be be the case, but it is harder for them to get going again, which you have left out of your picture

I might have right of way going uphill but I'll always move over for someone coming down.

JoB - Member

that may be be the case, but it is harder for them to get going again, which you have left out of your picture

No, I haven't- it may be harder to "get going" but that's not what the descending rider's doing, he's getting back up to his original speed which is often more effort and more timeconsuming than restarting when climbing, and sometimes not eve possible. Unless you stop somewhere you can't restart but that's generally easy to manage.

Northwind - Member
it may be harder to "get going" but that's not what the descending rider's doing, he's getting back up to his original speed which is often more effort and more timeconsuming than restarting when climbing

really?

I'm definitely in the "ROW to the climber" camp.

If it's a technical climb then there's no way I'm stopping and losing my flow just so some mediocre gravity hound gets a clean run. For a lot of climbs around here, if you stop you'll be walking the rest of the way up. On the other hand if it's a boring climb I'll usually pull over and let them past. So I guess it depends a bit how technical a trail is.

JoB - Member
Northwind - Member
it may be harder to "get going" but that's not what the descending rider's doing, he's getting back up to his original speed which is often more effort and more timeconsuming than restarting when climbing

really?

Yes of course it is, do you ride offroad?

frequently

maybe my 'up to speed' isn't as gnawesome as yours

Another also definitely in the definitely in the "ROW to the climber" camp.

It's still easier and less disruptive and quicker for the person going up to yield.

Don't agree with this. In my experience its far easier for the descender to yield and, when I'm descending and have to yield to a climber, the vast majority of the time its not stopping anyway, its just briefly popping off the favoured line and, depending on the situation, not necessarily scrubbing loads of speed. If I have to stop on a steep climb and then get started again it can be a proper pita.

Yes of course it is, do you ride offroad?

Do you ride uphill?

Prettiest rider has ROW. Try not to run over your tongue or her dog.

cloudnine - Member
Prettiest rider has ROW. Try not to run over your tongue or her dog.

Pretty much the way it is, she wasn't out today, my day seems somehow so much more empty not having yielded to her.. 😉

nuke - Member

In my experience its far easier for the descender to yield

Because the climber has so much more momentum and speed?

Because the climber has so much more momentum and speed?

No because they haven't, thats just it: the little the climber has got is hard fought.

It's far easier for the person going up to pick a suitable point to more over to one side or stop than it is for the person coming down.

The person going up would only have to pull over or stop for a couple of seconds to let the descender past. Hardly an inconvenience.

For the descender to decelerate, pick a spot to stop, stop and wait for the slower climber to pass then accelerate back up to speed is going to take significantly longer.

If the climb stubbornly climbs up the middle the trail thinking he's got 'right of way' sooner or later he's going to cause a horrific accident. There needs to be some element of yielding from both parties.

The descender can't really expect to not have to slow down at all, but to expect them to stop to let the climber past just sounds completely ludicrous.

Don't forget to shout Strava! on your way down

The person going up would only have to pull over or stop for a couple of seconds to let the descender past. Hardly an inconvenience.

For the descender to decelerate, pick a spot to stop, stop and wait for the slower climber to pass then accelerate back up to speed is going to take significantly longer.

Does make me wonder whether some folk on STW ride uphill, and I mean ride as in put some effort in as opposed sitting and spinning. You do realise that when descending you have a friend in gravity that is actually the main problem for a climber? The assumption that a climber is going slower than a descender and therefore it must be easy to stop and re-start is baffling. You're also assuming the climber can re-start in the same gear; if they now have to get into a lower gear to restart its going to be difficult as you need to be moving where as more than likely the descender will be able to resume in the same gear and, if they can't, at least they'll be moving so can change gear. Also have you ever tried to start riding again from stopped on a steep climb? Its a mare even if you're in the right gear: the bikes unstable until you get some speed up, the front is wandering all over the shop but you're trying to balance weight to the back to maintain traction

I did also state in one of my previous posts that for the vast majority of the time its unlikely the descender will have to completely stop anyway.

[quote=smatkins1 ]It's far easier for the person going up to pick a suitable point to more over to one side or stop than it is for the person coming down.Actually, it isn't. Stand at the bottom of a trail, looking up. You can't see the surface or, often, the twists and turns. Stand at the top looking down and you'll usually see the whole trail.

What's more, the climber will be focussing on a point not very far away from the front wheel. The descender will be looking much further out and will, therefore, usually be the first to spot the other rider.

Of course those climbers if they get so much joy out of climbing, they could always go back down and start again in the right gear if they can't restart uphill by contouring a bit.

Contrast that with having a line t'd up into a berm (mine are imaginary and usually just root growths) spoiled by breast distraction, then some loping great hound laying clean across the trail.

I'm so patient with her, I wonder if she even realises..

if they can't restart uphill by contouring a bit.

If the path was wide enough for contouring, we wouldn't be having the discussion as both climber and descender would be able to pass each other without stopping/slowing down 😐

dereknightrider -

Contrast that with having a line spoiled by breast distraction,

Pictures, Derek - we need pictures 😯

The right of way should be given to the one climbing IMO.
There's nothing more infuriating than being forced to put a foot down on a tricky climb and failing to clean it. There's often less of a doable line going up technical stuff too and to deviate from it would be the end of your attempt. It's much easier to change your line or trackstand going downhill to allow someone past going the other way.

I'd usually give way to anyone/anything heading up assuming they're not already making to do so*, I'd do it with red socked ramblers so why not other bikers (Exception being when they're pushing a bike, because obviously they've already yielded in that case) The basis for my decision is in line with most of the above.

If it's easy to stop and restart going up the hill is not really worth getting excited about riding down.

If it's worth getting excited about on the way down its hard work going up, and in my personal experience is much more satisfying as a hard climb I cleaned than a mediocre down hill.

If it's awesome going down/hard to stop and restart going I won't be riding up it any how.

*often people do stop and get out of the way, with cheery "looks like fun"/rather you than me" type comments

OK so assume both parties are enjoying themselves equally (which on balance won't be the case, but just for argument), and just take it out of the picture... It's still easier and less disruptive and quicker for the person going up to yield.

nuke - Member
if they can't restart uphill by contouring a bit.
If the path was wide enough for contouring, we wouldn't be having the discussion as both climber and descender would be able to pass each other without stopping/slowing down

Most of our local trails have a dominant direction, which is usually downhill. The fireroads are the main way of regaining altitude, so fortunately uphill riders usually give way to the downhill riders on the singletrack

A lot of the time we MTBers are not going hugely fast (compared to how fast we can stop) and if you're riding properly and looking ahead you should be able to see if the oncoming rider is on a bit of a mission, be it up or down hill and then decide whether to get out of their way or not.