[Closed] Trail dogs....NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[i]It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, eg:

in a public place
in a private place (eg a neighbour’s house or garden)
in the owner’s home
The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them[/i]

This is the law, it's not an opinion, or an idea, it's what the law says. Your dog has no rights or responsibilities because it is an animal. As a dog owner you have a responsibility to other people in society to ensure they are safe around your animal. It's not anyone else's responsibility but your's alone. It's not the parents of children, not non dog owners that may encounter that dog, but solely yours.

Those are your responsibilities

Clear?

I don't really care about your dog. If you want to exersize it any way you want, you go right ahead (I understand that part of the joy of dog ownership is watching your dog run free) The point I'm making is that the responsibility for that dog lies solely with you. what it does is your responsibility. If you're not in control 100% of the time, then your are abdicating that responsibility to some-one else, some else who doesn't know your dog like you do. All that you need to do is ask yourself: Is that is fair. Is it fair to ask a child to make a decision about your pet based on no knowledge of how it behaves? Is it fair to ask some-one running or riding who comes across your dog suddenly to make a decision in a moment about how to approach it, or to try and decide how it will react to them?

Now, you may conclude that it is fair, that dogs off the lead are a part of society that non dog owners should just man/woman/child up about. That's fine. Like I said up there, I don't care about your dog.

Just give it some thought.

For that opinion you can liken me to Hitler as much as you like. 🙄

Finally someone with some sense.

It's easy to call troll. However, in the discussion above the poster seems to think that it's the childs fault if they get bitten. Surely, a dog that is well trained and under control wouldn't bite a child who snuck up on it. And if it did then it wouldn't be under control or safe.... Seems logical to me.

yes, it is. you quoted me. you wanted to respond to the other post you should have quoted him.
what seems logical to me is that i took the necessary action to prevent the child i mentioned even being in a situation where something [i]might[/i] have gone wrong. i don't blame the child, i blame the parent. they wouldn't let their toddler wander up to the open fire at the other end of the room, i presume, why my dog?

edited to add quote.

Chapeau nickc

It's easy to call troll. However, in the discussion above the poster seems to think that it's the childs fault if they get bitten. Surely, a dog that is well trained and under control wouldn't bite a child who snuck up on it. And if it did then it wouldn't be under control or safe.... Seems logical to me.
yes, it is. you quoted me. you wanted to respond to the other post you should have quoted him.
what seems logical to me is that i took the necessary action to prevent the child i mentioned even being in a situation where something might have gone wrong. i don't blame the child, i blame the parent. they wouldn't let their toddler wander up to the open fire at the other end of the room, i presume, why my dog?

edited to add quote.

A few years back, when my Jack Russell was just a pup, I was out walking the dogs when a bloke pushing a pram called her over. Being a friendly type she went over and was rewarded with a tickle. Then, to my horror, the chap picked her up and put her in the pram. Had she bitten or otherwise harmed the infant, whose fault would it have been?
She didn't harm the child, and never has harmed anyone but it was probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
Kids these days are either scared stiff of dogs, possibly with good reason, or have seemingly never been warned they might bite , and to ask before they pull their ears...

I don't care either way about dogs but i wouldn't own one, wouldnt want one in the house and think people who take them to busy trail centres are imbeciles.

Anyone who thinks its OK to own a dangerous dog is not wired up right in the head though.

don't stray from the path then,,,,,

don't worry about the habitat degradation and the disturbance of local wildlife

Yes I'd imagine a dog poo in thousands of acres of Scottish woodland really degrades the habitat and disturbs teh wildlife. All those foxes, badgers, pine martens and otters all bag and fill up landfill so that perfectly good land has to be dug up and filled with plastic bags full of air 🙄

we are in the national trust, and they actively encourage stick and flick in their more rural areas and woodland.
I suppose it is better than hanging bags of it from trees.

(Dog owner here) As an owner you have responsibility for everyone's safety - your dogs and any person or other animal that may come into contact. Can you do that while riding tour bike? Simple question really....

There's a local bridalway literally at the top of my street which could be lovely to ride down with my two children but its so chuffing stressful. Fresh sloppy dog eggs all over. We once had a word with one guy and it got a bit heated . He rang his mate whos a local bobby whom confirmed he was a prick for not picking it up. Its social terrorism. Pick ya shoot up simple.

3 dogs here and 3 kids,what should I do?????

Reading through these posts makes me feel that part of the problem is just down to overcrowding.
Here in Suffolk horse riders present a far far bigger issue for my rides than dogs, trails which flow perfectly one day can be churned up by hooves and covered in horse poo the next (no one asks them to pick it up). But we share the trails because they are limited to the same bridleways as me and i've made friends with several local horse riders who I often meet.
My dog comes out with me all the time, he's well trained (genuinely well trained, my wife is a trainer for our local dog agility club and regularly competes) and i pick up after him, none of the horse riders mind him, neither do any of the joggers, ramblers, fishermen or other trail/forest users.
I occasionally have issues with other dogs chasing him/me but it's generally fine. I'd never take him to a trail centre though, as well trained as he is he'd just be in the way bless him and as I said before, these places are overcrowded so we all have to think of each other.

[quote=divenwob ]3 dogs here and 3 kids,what should I do?????

Pick up your kids' poo

rockhopper70 - Member

we are in the national trust, and they actively encourage stick and flick in their more rural areas and woodland.
I suppose it is better than hanging bags of it from trees

everything to do with saving money not emptying dog poo bins, nothing to do with protecting flora and fauna, always used by dog owners to justify not bagging and binning it when they get home

I'm just relaying what nt say, not justifying it or whatnot.

Oh I normally bag it and hang it in a tree. 😆

everything to do with saving money not emptying dog poo bins, nothing to do with protecting flora and fauna, always used by dog owners to justify not bagging and binning it when they get home

Just how much damage to flora ad fauna do you think dogshit does? Poo bags have a half life of about 50 years and take up a lot of space when full of cack and air. If every dog shite was put in land fill we very soon would have no land but landfill. All when a couple of weeks out in the open sees off the problem. I know how long it takes for one to degrade as I have set up CCTV to try and catch the tosser that keeps letting his dog crap behind my car in teh street. It really isn't long.
Of course, if it's the kind of land that people are likely to use for picnics or whatnot then the stick and flick isn't appropriate but then I doubt the landowners would advocate it. Anyways, if a dog is prone to stop and shit on a trail then no they shouldn't be taken to trail centres.
I would have no issues taking mine to GT, CyB, NyrA, Laggan, Golspie or Glenlivet. Or any of that style. He would be no more of an obstacle than me on my own but if the fact he was there annoyed you the I would take more pleasure from that.

I'm quite surprised at the number of people who don't understand the difference between horse poo and dog poo.

Is it Horse Poo is fricking massive and can be hard to avoid when spread all over a narrow path, and dog poo is small, tidy and easily bunny-hopped?

(yeah I know horse crap is just chewed up grass, but it's still antisocial to leave massive pile of it in shared areas)

I will vote for nickc in May.

Its social terrorism

It's not hard to come to the conclusion that dog owners are a dirty, antisocial lot.

I will vote for nickc in May.

Horse poo is plant based so rots down like compost very quickly. Dog poo is like human poo. Meat and veg based so takes much longer to decompose. Thats why cat and dog poo is bad for compost heaps.

Best thing to do is use a plastic container with a lid to collect the dog poo. Flush it down the loo when you get home then re use the plastic container. No bags. No mess on the trails. I know the foxes and cats still poo but we have to what we can as a community to keep our planet clean.

I'm a dog owner, I take my dog on walks where bikes are used and I make an effort to keep him under control,especially when bikes are going past, which is a challenge.
I have been on 3 rides this year and have had incidents with trail dogs.
2 occasions where I've been at a trail center on MTB only trails, to find a dog running at me, causing me stop, nearly coming off, and ruining a downhill I've just spent all my energy climbing up to the top. On the third,once again at a trail centre the dog had been abandoned by its owner, miles from any where, in sub zero temperatures, the dog was limping, and not in a good place. I took the dog back to the car park to find the owner having a brew in the cafe. I had to coax the dog back along fire tracks ruing the ride, that I had to drive for hours to get to.
I don't blame the dogs but the owners.
Dogs are unpredictable.... Even the most highly trained have their moments.
When you are riding your bike, do you know what your dog is up to behind you?

Yes it`s called a seatpost cam 😉 🙂

horse/cow poo - quinoa
dog/human poo - MacDonalds

different bacteria innit... stuff from meat-eaters will make your kids go blind and poison your vegetables, stuff from grass-eaters can be used to heal the sick and tastes great in a sandwich

Am I the only person who can walk/bike/whatever outdoors and happily walk past horse/cow poo and not really have much of a issue with any smell (Obviously a slurry pit or when the farmer has been spraying is a bit OTT).

But you walk down an alley/trail where it is popular with dog walkers and it feels like you are constantly being hounded by flies that have been happily playing in dog crap and the smell is something else.

Its why I related it to smokers being ignorant earlier. I love dogs but the problem is more the volume than the actual dogs for me. I gave the example of mabie because to all intents and purposes this is 'the great outdoors' to some. If dog walkers can turn an entire trail into a turgid, gas mask required hell hole then they really need to be made to change rather than asked.

divenwob - Member

3 dogs here and 3 kids,what should I do?????

Take your perverse interspecies relationships to the next level and breed a new species that can pick up its own turds? 💡

So what should one do when it's near the end of a long walk and your dog is no longer shitting solids? Bag doesn't work, stick doesn't work...

The dog/human hybrid would shart directly into the bag, keeping the trails cleaner than ever!

Is this still going on?

nickc
It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, eg:

in a public place
in a private place (eg a neighbour’s house or garden)
in the owner’s home
The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

You seem to be under the impression that a dog off the lead is dangerously out of control? A dog can be out of control but not dangerous and a dog can be off the lead and not out of control and not dangerous.

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them, be it de to a genuine fear due to some event or an irrational one due to lack of understanding and often ignorance.

If it due to a genuine fear then I am sorry that something has happened to you and I suggest you seek help to deal with it.

a dog can be off the lead and not out of control

Monumentally wrong.
Off the lead is not in your control.

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them, be it de to a genuine fear due to some event or an irrational one due to lack of understanding and often ignorance.

If it due to a genuine fear then I am sorry that something has happened to you and I suggest you seek help to deal with it.

Look at the quality of that victim blaming! 😀
I can be an arsehole with a bit of effort, but andyl seems to manage it like a natural pro.

Hats off to you sir, I haven't seen such levels of cheb-endery in some weeks!

<[i]proceeds with slow hand clap[/i]>

I like dogs (and most animals) but really object to those dog owners who are lazy, irresponsible and anti-social;

- Those who let their dog off a lead in a public place and think it's acceptable when their dog runs up to and jumps up at people.

- Those who let their dog crap in public areas and not clear it up

you seem to be under the impression that a dog off the lead is dangerously out of control? A dog can be out of control but not dangerous and a dog can be off the lead and not out of control and not dangerous.

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them

It seems that the problem is getting worse, maybe it's just my perception of it, but there do seem to be a disproportionaly large number of dog owners who cannot maintain control over their dog. The common theme is the dog is let off a lead, it sees something (walker, rider, other dog, etc) and goes running off. The owner has no control over the dog, the dog hasn't been properly trained and just ignores the owners shouts. It's only once the dog reaches it's destination that you know what will happen - will it bite? will it maul another dog? will it stand there wagging it's tail?

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them

No there isn't. The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 says:

For the purposes of this Act a dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so

And of course all you dog owners are familiar with the legislation around dog ownership and the consequent penalties, aren't you?

[i]You seem to be under the impression that a dog off the lead is dangerously out of control? A dog can be out of control but not dangerous and a dog can be off the lead and not out of control and not dangerous.[/i]

Nope, read again, it doesn't matter whether the dog is off or on a lead. the law says it has to be under control. However on a lead you take away the uncertainty, it removes the possibility 100% of the time that the dog will scare some-one. But raise that with a dog owner, and they react as if you want to euthanase the animal.

[i]There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them, be it de to a genuine fear due to some event or an irrational one due to lack of understanding and often ignorance.[/i]

Again, no there isn't. Read the law. It doesn't matter if there is genuine fear, or just ignorance. The responsibility is still yours as the dog owner. If some-one is afraid of your dog, it's out of control. End

[i]If it due to a genuine fear then I am sorry that something has happened to you and I suggest you seek help to deal with it.[/i]

[sigh]

The standard reply. I'm not scared of dogs.

Non dog owners tar you all with the same brush because we continue to tread in dog shit, and roll through it with our wheels, and have it flick up into our faces. We continue to be bitten despite the protestations of "It's never done that, before" or better still "You must have done something to wind him up"

Keep your dog on a lead, and pick up it's shit and take it home with you. That's all you have to do to put a stop to this.

nickc for No. 10

No there isn't. The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 says:

For the purposes of this Act a dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for [b]reasonable apprehension[/b] that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so

exactly. [b]REASONABLE APPREHENSION"[/b] someone having an irrational fear does not constitute [b]"REASONABLE APPREHENSION"[/b]

If my dog is running around minding it's own business 100 yards from someone and they start getting hysterical screaming "OMG that dogs going to rip my face off" - is that "reasonable apprehension"? No. It's a stupid moron or someone who has a problem and is in the minority.

Keep your dog on a lead,

No.

Something tells me keeping your dog on a lead when going down singletrack isn't really a serious option?

A certain % of all people are knobs. Those people that do not believe this simple fact, must also therefore be a knob. 🙂

As a cyclist we have to endure the generalised flack caused by the % of cyclists that are knobs.
As a car driver we have to endure the generalised flack caused by the % of car drivers that are knobs.
As a dog owner we have to endure the generalised flack caused by the % of dog owners that are knobs.

Don't you just love being shoved in generalised boxes by everyone?

For the record, a) I find a the outer pocket of a backpack is very handy for carrying full poo bags until you can find a bin, and b) I don't take my dogs to a trail centre.

You're an idiot

and here we go. All you can resort to is name calling.

You have still not put up any reasonable justification for all dogs to be on the lead at all times. You may think you have but you haven't. So my response to you telling me to put my dog on a lead at all times is "no". There is no point in me saying any more as there is nothing else to add.

Got to say that you have kinda nailed it there Andyl

[i]If my dog is running around minding it's own business 100 yards from someone and they start getting hysterical screaming "OMG that dogs going to rip my face off" - is that "reasonable apprehension"? No[/i]

Dog owners have an entirely different view of what is and isn't reasonable when it comes to their dogs. In the same way smokers couldn't accept the intrusive nature (Not to mention the harmfull nature)of their smoke, dog owners cant accept that their dogs can sometimes invoke a reasonable apprehension.

If I had a dog playing in a park and someone 100yds away was scared. Be it a child, a 6ft bloke or an old lady. I would move heaven and earth to make sure my dog was taken out of that persons way.

[i]You have still not put up any reasonable justification for all dogs to be on the lead at all times[/i]

It's not me that has to. The responsibility for your dog lies entirely with you. Not me, not with the dog, but you. You have be able to justify why it's ok to let the dog scare someone, or let them step in it's shit. and your answer was "No"

Something tells me keeping your dog on a lead when going down singletrack isn't really a serious option?

On singletrack it is possible but you have to choose your routes carefully and have a suitable lead, I will keep mine on a lead when needed and one example of this is if there is a group of people learning to ride horses on fireroads and bridleways. It's more a visual thing to re-assure them as if they start to worry the horse senses it and so forth. I also do things my dog to demonstrate responsible behaviour to other dog owners as often me putting my well behaved and under control dog on the lead triggers people with less well behaved dogs onto their leads too. Just like I make it quite obvious I have picked up my dogs poo in some attempt to shame those who don't. But obviously on singletrack it does dull the enjoyment so try to avoid it.

The argument above is that ALL dogs should be kept on a lead at ALL times. Not just when riding. ie never allow a dog off a lead.

My dogs didn't bother anyone during the 3hrs we spent riding/running up at Nevis Range yesterday. But then we only saw one other person once we'd left the car park, and they (the dogs) sat down next to me as instructed as soon as we saw him and didn't move until he'd gone past. Wouldn't take them at the weekend or if it was busy though. And they both had a shit at home first 🙂

I hardly ever put my dogs on a lead, although I usually carry one in my pocket just in case wherever I've gone is unexpectedly busy. However, while I let them run around the forest as much as they want, I do not allow them to run up to other people or dogs, and it's easy enough to use food as a distraction to keep them glued to my side until we have passed and are by ourselves again. So I don't agree that off the lead automatically equates to not under control.

It's not me that has to. The responsibility for your dog lies entirely with you. Not me, not with the dog, but you. You have be able to justify why it's ok to let the dog scare someone, [b]or let them step in it's shit.[/b] and your answer was "No"

yes you do. No where does the law state that I must keep my dog on a lead at all times. the DDA 1991 does state several times that as a consequence of an out of control or dangerous incident an owner may be required to keep a dog on a lead in certain situations but that is it.

And please find where I have said anything about me thinking it's okay for people to step in my dogs shit?

What's that? You can't?

However, while I let them run around the forest as much as they want,

yeah f*** those ground nesting birds

Ps I take full and complete responsibility for everything my dog does. I have never said I don't and have no reason to dispute it. I trust that dog with my life and the lives of others, certainly more than I trust a lot of people.